back/bicep day, what do you think?
07-24-2003 09:08 PM
back/bicep day, what do you think?
I returning to basic more compound movements to do some good mass building, I just want to make sure I am not overdoing it. I am 22, 6'2 197lbs the only extra thing I take is whey.
-deadlifts: 4 sets
-pull ups: 3 sets
-barbell rows: 3 sets
-chins: 3 sets
-barbell curl: 3 sets
the first 3 I like, it is adding the chins and curls, would this be good how it is, or should I take one out for something else, let me know what you guys think
07-25-2003 01:58 AM
i wouldnt say you're overtraining at all. Maybe you could even add in a set or two. As far as the choices for exerices, nice. Only suggestion i would make is to switch the deads and pullups in the order b/c i personanly prefer to be warmed up thoroughly before blasting away at deadlifting.
07-25-2003 09:42 AM
Yeah, I am trying to go back to more basic, compound moves. I'm glad to hear you like my choices thus far.
Do you think my biceps will get enough of a workout out of this? being this is the day they will be worked on once a week.
How about adding a set to barbell rows?
I am trying to plan out the rest of my routine as well, maybe into a 3 day split.
Legs will be :
squats: 4 sets
seated calf raises: 3-4?? sets
I need two more exercises, nothing that isolates too much, I was thinking maybe legs press and stiff legged dead lift, any other better suggestions?
that leaves chest , triceps and shoulders. I am not sure if I should do them all in one day. I wanted to put all my pushing in one day. I just wanbt to make sure I don't train too long.
for sure I know I need and want this
dips: 3 sets
Incline DB press: 4sets
the rest is still up in the air. What do you think?
anyone else have any ideas?
07-25-2003 10:07 AM
Id cut the volume, but thats just me. I could never do 16 FULL sets anymore...
07-25-2003 10:32 AM
your proposed 3 day split is one which is very popular, and works well, giving your body plenty of time to recover from the previous week's workout, and doesnt factor in too much of secondary muscles, involved on seperate days. Somethign like this would be pretty standard:
Monday: Back/Biceps/Traps/Forearms (optional)
A traditional push-pull 3 day split. Give that a try man.
Sldls is a good one to add onto the squats and calve training. you really cant go wrong with press or lunge movement for legs either. Being that your targeted goal is to stick with heavy compound movements, a layout of squats (4), press/lunge (3-4), SLDL (3), Calve raises (3-4) would give you a complete workout, hitting the legs hard. Im with you scotty. ill keep hitting the same bodypart during one session under 12 sets. but when training several bodyparts together on one day, i tend to pump out 15 or a little more total sets.
As for exericse choices to follow up the dips and incline db, i would keep that as is (possibly adding on one more chest exercise...flat bench perhaps), and moving onto shoulders and tris. Military, push presses, upright rows, behind the neck presses all would fit your desired compound movements. Close grip bench, skulls (db or ez curl), dips would be my choices for tricep workout.
07-26-2003 12:54 PM
thank you so much Sage!!! you have been incredibly helpful!!
I am going to write out this new routine out and start my back/biceps TODAY!!! wuuuuuuu!!!
you think the barbell curls and chins are enough traning for the biceps? I fell like I have over done them a bit in the past, so i want to make sure I'm not doing the same this time around
well that's the last question
thanks again mate
07-26-2003 02:07 PM
make sure you switchout your barbellrows for seated rows or bent-over dumbell rows for variation from time to time
07-26-2003 11:41 PM
personally, i need more work in my arms for them to grow. ive tried pretty much all levels of volume training for the arms and especially for bis, found 6-8 sets most efficient, rather than 3-4 or 10+
As it stands now, you could be set with a fine split...just have to see how you adapt to the moderately low volume for the biceps.
07-27-2003 06:03 PM
Are those work sets listed or are the warmups included in the listed numbers. And I realize that after three 4 sets of deads and then 3 sets of chins not much of a warmup is needed for rows as an example. if so and you can do 4 heavy sets of deads you da man!
Seriously, the volume for the rest of the upper back work could work just fine if you respond to volume work (on a percentile basis volume does NOT work for the majority. But for those it works for it works wonders) Damn, I'm ranting again! Anyway, If you are an intermediate level lifter I will go out on a limb and say 4 sets of "hard" deads (not to failure) is WAY too much. if you are keeping the weight WAY light, fine, but if that is the case why?
07-27-2003 08:17 PM
I am with IA on this one. Try cutting down your sets and upping your intensity. I used to do a routine like this when I was younger and thought it was the bomb. And I did grow using it. But now I do a lot less with more intensity and I am growing much faster. And as far as my "genetics" go I can walk in of the street without training for three years and do 85lbs dumbell bench for 8-10, shoulder DB's with 65lbs for 8, curl 105 for 6-8 and I am 5'8 200lbs (slightly chubby). Not as impressive as some of the guys on this board but it was my first work out in 3 years. Now I train under SB and if you saw some of my poundages you would laugh your ass off but I am getting BIGGER and STRONGER much faster then ever before!!! So would you do a workout that gave you what you wanted in 1 year or in 4 months, thats what you have to ask yourself.
07-28-2003 12:41 PM
iron addict, I am an intermediate level lifter. Do you think I should cut my deads to 3 and just make sure I do them with lots of intensity?( with great form of course)
what about the rest of the back routine, 3 sets good? and I put in chins to target my biceps a bit more while still working my back. Should I go with them, or just do barbell curls for biceps and take chins out all together??? let me know what you think, the more advice the better
07-28-2003 03:57 PM
It all depends on YOUR definition of "lots of intensity. If we are talking about sets done to 1 rep short of failure, or to actual failure 3 work sets is still too much. If they are just done kind of hard (as in many reps short of failure for all sets) it could work well. If they are ACTUALLY done to failure or only 1 rep short of failure two sets would be the max I would do or have someone I train do. Only doing 1 work set of deads to failure after warm-ups work wonders for most people. Here is a little insight as to how sytemically demanding deads are. The grand Guru of powerlifting. Louis Simmons, who's Westside Barbell Club is so successful they practically own powerlifting. Yes, the guys that do deads in competition. Well, one thing Louis makes sure his lifter never or RARELY do while training is deadlifts. WHAT? Why the **** would they do that? The main reason is that deads from the floor for max weights or rep work are so systemically demanding they lead to overtraining (primarily through CNS depleteion). Louis has his lifters do a WIDE variety of lifts that work the same muscles that perform the deadlift at the meet. And that is what they do. They save the deads for competitions only. And in case you are wondering I am not telling you to not perform regular deads while training. I'm just stating this to give you an idea of how brutally hard a properly perfomed set of deads are. Three sets of rep work to failure of deads will stalemate progress for MOST people out there. Either do them with low intensity, or do two sets max with balls out intensity.
07-29-2003 12:52 PM
wow!! that's good stuff to know!!, I think I will try 2 sets at full intensity
so that by the time I get around the 7-8 reps I can barely do it.
What about other muscle groups? does the same apply? or is it just this exercise because it is so demanding on the body?
for example is the rest of my back routine ok?
I'm planning on doing chest, triceps and shoulders. All in one day
what exercises would you recomend for mass building/number of set and exercises per muscle group?
I know dips for chest!! they have worked WONDERS! ever since I started doing them, Incline Db press has also been working great for me, the rest is now up in the air as i am changing things around. What do you think?
thank you so much!!! you have been very informative!!!
07-29-2003 02:52 PM
have you thought about adding in some shrugs? My back workout is never done untill i get a few good sets of shrugs in. Just my opinion
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