Your opinion on HST training?
- 12-11-2004, 08:38 PM
Your opinion on HST training?
What is your opinion on the 3 day HST training regiment?
I was goning to use it with my Superdrol cycle. Any others I should be looking at?
Here is the HST site: http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com.
- 12-12-2004, 07:32 AM
I used to be on a 4 day schedule, with a "cycle" training, which was 4 week high volume high reps, 4 weeks lower reps, more rest, lower number of sets etc. In other word, I was on a training that was for the 2 different kind of hypertrophy.
It didn't work. I used to go to failure on too many sets, then overtraining my cns, so I wasn't able to load progressively, which what hst is about. I didnt gain ANYTHING in about 5-6 months of training.
Im not overtrain anymore (I dont feel tired all the time and irritable now), and I finally gain. My chest is much fuller, Im packing mass on those lagging legs, and Im finally over the 16 mark for the arms. Im so glad I found hst some months ago.
Before saying hst sucks, because their philosophy are different from many belief, try it. If diet is in order, you will grow. Progressive load and frequency are the keys.
- 12-23-2004, 10:39 PM
Im surprised that more opinions havent been expressed in this thread.
Im nearing the end of my first HST cycle and so far, so good.
12-26-2004, 01:19 AM
Sounds weird to me...I read through it and just can't bring myself to trying it...I may implement some of the principles and see if I see progress; from tehre I might give it a try...
12-26-2004, 07:02 AM
My understanding of it is that it promotes size gains, but not strength. If thats true, then for me it worthless.
12-26-2004, 09:14 AM
I didn't vote because I feel it has some really good ideas and some problems. I personally couldn't keep up with myself, but that may be because its damn near impossible to do 1-2 sets and move on to another body part. Psychological issue on my part. And if you DON'T do that, you overtrain. I guess I need to give it more strict consideration before I rule it out. For sure, however, it (or a modified version) can be successfully employed to change up/shock the system and bust a plateau from stagnation. Full body workouts are just not realistic except for this purpose IMO. I suggest everyone learn about it and give it a try if you are getting stuck or stale.
12-26-2004, 12:21 PM
I would have to agree with Chunky.
I ended my first cycle two days ago. I kept the cycle real simple--12 weeks of test (transdermal) with some Dbol at the beginning. In the first 5 weeks, the size and strength gains came absurdly fast on my four day high volume split. However, with each passing week, the gains became slower and slower and almost to the point of complete stagnation. So, the last two weeks I decided to change it up. I pretty much did the standard HST 15 rep workout except I did a 6 day workout (upper/lower) instead of the standard three. I finished the 15's on the last day of my cycle and can honestly say that I saw some good size and strength gains in that little of time. I BLEW past all of my previous 15 RM's. Gained a total of 23 lbs. on thw whole cycle. Pretty awesome.
Now, I'll see how I can keep all these gains in the 10's and 5's. I don't expect to lose much of anything. My next 12 week cycle will be all HST, set-up like Jminis-should make some sick sick gains.
12-26-2004, 12:49 PM
I love it, have done 2 cycles of it now. One was the traditional 8 week 15/10/5, the other a modified 16 week cycle with a test/EQ cycle. You have to get used to the limited amount of sets per bodypart per day, but once you get over any hang-ups you had from previous training styles, you realize this one works wonderfully and is based purely around science.
12-26-2004, 08:07 PM
I want to try it out...but it just sounds so weird!!
How long have your workouts been using HST training, jweave??
12-26-2004, 08:30 PM
about 45 - 60 minutes, no longer than that. I try for about 45 if possible
12-26-2004, 09:43 PM
45-60 hauling ass, or is that like a "normal" pace??
12-27-2004, 06:24 AM
Things to keep in mind:
HST is not the 15/10/5/negatives method, that's one implimentation of HST. HST is a set of principles with a good solid backing in science. One, load the muscle. Two, progressively increase the weight. Three, frequency, workout every 48 hours. Four, rest, or as it's known in HST Strategic Deconditioning.
As someone else said, HST is geared to size gains, not strength gains. Strength comes, not as fast as with principles dedicated to increasing strength specifically.
Also, almost all weight lifting programs adhere to some extent to all four of these principles. If you're comfortable with what you're doing and getting gains, changing makes no sense. But, if you want a change up try to modifiy your existing program to fit those four principles.
HST with AAS is different. There's plenty written on the subject on the HST boards, go read a bit over there. The stuff by the users Blade and Lars are particularly helpful, search for their posts.
The 15/10/5/negative rep scheme is just a one size fits all implimentation of HST. the reps don't really matter to be honest. They just provide a useful contruct for keeping track of volume and time under tension. You could as easily go with 12/8/5/negatives, or do a different number of reps every week. Doesn't really matter. You want steady or increasing volume and increasing weight over the course of the cycle. The greater the range of weight you can use from beginning to end of a cycle, the better the results, all else being equal. Don't be afraid to start lower than you'd think would be useful.
12-28-2004, 04:12 PM
Great wrapup. My only comment is that one should rest muscle groups for 48 hours. So, you can do a six day split and work out every 24 hours, for example upper/lower split.
I've had good results on HST. It is said to be especially worthwhile while cutting.
Originally Posted by CDB
01-20-2005, 09:54 AM
I've done it before for a couple of hst cycles and it worked well. What I'm doing now seems to work better for me though. Either way my workouts are only 45 min or so.
So all in all, the science that it's based on seems to be sound, and produces results.
01-21-2005, 10:14 PM
HST is great. for all the naysayers, you set up a self-fulfilling prophecy. as one wag said, WLing is 90% physical and 10% mental, but lets talk about that 10%.
seriously. it's based on very sound science, and it works. it is just so different from the BBing CW about "blasting a muscle" then letting it rest for days on end.
HST works. but if you come into it doubting it's effectiveness, you will sabotage it and get suboptimal gains
also should note that it is suboptimal for strength vs. hypertrophy but so are BBing programs IN GENERAL. people who want strength over size generally train differently than BBers for obvious reasons. HST is not a strength athlete protocol, although it might be nice as occasional adjunct training and to give the body a break from low rep abuse
01-22-2005, 09:07 AM
Sound discussion. I am researching HST as I write this. There is another link that may be of interest.
It's written by a guy who apparently has put together an ebook on HST. The text seems dependable. I plan to start my first HST cycle shortly. It'd be of great help if you guys could share a sample routine or two (eight week cycle).
01-28-2005, 10:36 PM
I think HST works great, it's kind of confusing at first when trying to set it up...But if you set it up right, it works great, my workout partner and I both saw pretty good strength and size increases on it. I have an excel program that simplifies it fairly well if anyone is interested..
02-01-2005, 09:24 PM
I tried it once and didnt like it. I felt I actually lost strength. I might give it another go in the future, however.
02-02-2005, 07:05 AM
Keep in mind it's not geared towards gaining strength. You may gain strength on it, you should gain strength steadily if you do a few cycles of it, and you really shouldn't lose any strength while on it. It's main focus however is hypertrophy.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
02-02-2005, 08:03 AM
Very true. Hypertrophy is its main focus. It's usually compared to strength training and PL, but HST serves a very different purpose - that of gaining size. If one is looking to gain strength with some size then PL would be a good start.Originally Posted by CDB
02-02-2005, 01:13 PM
Hmmm...When I tried HST I had only been training a little over a year, so I really didnt have half the knowledge I do now. Ive been training for strength for a while, maybe its worth another shot.
02-02-2005, 02:14 PM
Depends on your goals bro. If you want size it's hard to beat short and long term. If you want strength and size any other routine you respond well to will do.Originally Posted by BigVrunga
02-13-2005, 09:01 AM
Im gonna be starting HST today...but i was wonderin if someone can skip the 15 range and go to the 10?
And also how is HST with AAS different?
02-13-2005, 03:12 PM
If you've been lifting for a while you can skip the 15s. They're basically to strengthen connective tissues. However, if you're skipping the 15s use that as an opportunity to start with a lower weight at the begining of the tens. The range of weight you use from the begining to the end of the cycle is a big determining factor in the effectiveness of the cycle. SD for a week or two before you start.Originally Posted by Renton405
There's a variety of ways AAS will effect how an HST cycle is implimented. My advice is to go to the HST site and read through the forums, the subject has been addressed at length.
02-16-2005, 10:23 PM
I think HST is best suited toward athletes like wrestlers, boxers and mma practioners. The 15s help with muscle endurance/fatigue and the relatively few number of workouts per week leaves adequate time for training in another sport. I wouldn't skip the 15 but rather drop it to 12/10 8 and 4/5 reps schemes.
02-28-2005, 01:02 AM
I could get into the specifics, however there is one circumstance in which HST is the best training method hands down. Before you start your flames, allow me to explain: read New Approaches to PCT: Part III Training, In Mind & Muscle #23. As far as a year-round training approach, for one, it's boring, secondly, it's only worth it if you are a hardgainer (as we all are during PCT)
02-28-2005, 01:28 AM
You call it boring, I call it structuredOriginally Posted by Viator
I dont understand the second part of your comment though. If your a hardgainer its good, but if you gain muscle easily its not? What do you think is better?
02-28-2005, 02:05 AM
I just didn't feel like retyping my entire article on PCT training that I did for Mind & Muscle.
The basic premise is, HST is hands-down the best approach for gaining mass, hardgainer or not. It just works that much better if you're a hardgainer. Post androgen cycle, even Ronnie Coleman is a hardgainer.
And although it is structured, full body splits can get boring. And constant change is one of the keys to continual goals. I'm not sure If I'm allowed to reprint the article as it belongs to Par Deus, INC now. Read it and you'll know exactly what I'm tallking about. I put a *permanent* 25 lbs on my frame using HST principles, and UD 2.0 for cutting, which is basically a tweaked version of HST.
Read the article. If you like it, post how much you liked it, I could sure use the positive feedback after I was basically banned from writing articles for BulkNuts, "The bull" because a few feeble minded individuals couldn't appreciate the immersion of fiction and bodybuilding. See: "The Absinthe Diet and Insanity Program," issue #2 or #3 (not sure) of "The Bull."
Originally Posted by Andrew69
02-28-2005, 05:11 AM
Ill check it out as soon as I get a chance..most of it will probably go over my head, but Ill check it out none the less
02-28-2005, 05:56 AM
IMO the bottom line is HST works for me, Ive been using a modifyed version of it for over a year now and it suits me fine. Strength comes but it is slower, you cant lift heavy weights all the time anyway. Dont skip the high rep segment, a little lower than 15 is ok, just my thoughts it works
02-28-2005, 07:17 AM
There are several modified versions available that have been tried and worked. Some are similar to the basic routine, some have major modifications. The high rep work is good for strengthening connective tissue, but skipping the fifteens really isn't a big deal for most when it comes to hypertrophy. The range of weight used over the cycle is what really counts.Originally Posted by Knowbull
02-28-2005, 06:57 PM
Thanks CDB I appreciate your input!
03-10-2005, 10:07 AM
I put I dunno but I like it. I think it's good for some people and not good for others. It really depends on ones goals and body type.
03-16-2005, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Viator
What does UD 2.0 consist of? Where can I find info?
03-16-2005, 06:56 PM
I tried HST a few years ago with a loss in strength over the course of the program (which in retrospect, I guess I should have expected.) That said, when I returned to my regular workout routine my strength and size went through the roof within 2-3 weeks with no significant change in diet.
I guess I would just keep this information in mind while doing your HST cycle. Switching it up is always a good thing!
03-17-2005, 12:02 AM
03-19-2005, 12:21 AM
It's an updated version of Bodyopus. The book is available: bodyrecomposition.com
Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
03-19-2005, 07:51 AM
I've done bodyopus before and it works really well for me. Anyone mind giving some more details about UD 2?
What's different from body opus and is it really better?
03-28-2005, 02:05 PM
HST is for size, and right now I feel like I want strength. I'm putting on mass without strength gains, and yea sure I feel good when I look at myself, but I'm still putting up the same weight I was on most exercises 6 months ago.
so what would you guys recommend for strength?
03-28-2005, 03:07 PM
Max OT or Westside Barbell routines work well for strength.Originally Posted by cable626
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