Poll: HST Training 3 Day Training:

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Your opinion on HST training?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull
    IMO the bottom line is HST works for me, Ive been using a modifyed version of it for over a year now and it suits me fine. Strength comes but it is slower, you cant lift heavy weights all the time anyway. Dont skip the high rep segment, a little lower than 15 is ok, just my thoughts it works
    There are several modified versions available that have been tried and worked. Some are similar to the basic routine, some have major modifications. The high rep work is good for strengthening connective tissue, but skipping the fifteens really isn't a big deal for most when it comes to hypertrophy. The range of weight used over the cycle is what really counts.


  2. Thanks CDB I appreciate your input!
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  3. I put I dunno but I like it. I think it's good for some people and not good for others. It really depends on ones goals and body type.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Viator
    I put a *permanent* 25 lbs on my frame using HST principles, and UD 2.0 for cutting, which is basically a tweaked version of HST.

    Read the article.

    What does UD 2.0 consist of? Where can I find info?

    Thanks,

    - Jonesie

  5. I tried HST a few years ago with a loss in strength over the course of the program (which in retrospect, I guess I should have expected.) That said, when I returned to my regular workout routine my strength and size went through the roof within 2-3 weeks with no significant change in diet.

    I guess I would just keep this information in mind while doing your HST cycle. Switching it up is always a good thing!
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  6. Here is the AAS/PH FAQ on HST training from the site, in case any of you had trouble finding it

    AAS/PH FAQ
  7. UD2.0


    It's an updated version of Bodyopus. The book is available: bodyrecomposition.com
    worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
    What does UD 2.0 consist of? Where can I find info?

    Thanks,

    - Jonesie

  8. I've done bodyopus before and it works really well for me. Anyone mind giving some more details about UD 2?

    What's different from body opus and is it really better?

  9. HST is for size, and right now I feel like I want strength. I'm putting on mass without strength gains, and yea sure I feel good when I look at myself, but I'm still putting up the same weight I was on most exercises 6 months ago.

    so what would you guys recommend for strength?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by cable626
    HST is for size, and right now I feel like I want strength. I'm putting on mass without strength gains, and yea sure I feel good when I look at myself, but I'm still putting up the same weight I was on most exercises 6 months ago.

    so what would you guys recommend for strength?
    Max OT or Westside Barbell routines work well for strength.

  11. WSB for strength, definately. Will add mass to you, too.

  12. I'm getting bigger and I train WSB style

  13. i truly believe you can put on size with nearly all of these types of programs (HIT, max-ot, WSB, DC, HST) .. varying up training and MOST IMPORTANTLY diet are both key ... they type of workout is important but i think in the end they will all result in growth .. that said i don't like HST at all really

  14. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    I'm getting bigger and I train WSB style
    Word on that stud

  15. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    I'm getting bigger and I train WSB style
    Don't lie, toothpick....I've seen your avatar and your girly limbs :P

    Okay, okay...so I'm kidding

    Haven't heard too much good on HST lately. Never ended up trying it b/c it never did make sense to me. I ended up droping the volume, therefore increasing my rest and recovery time and I'm thanking myself now good stuff.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by glenihan
    i truly believe you can put on size with nearly all of these types of programs (HIT, max-ot, WSB, DC, HST) .. varying up training and MOST IMPORTANTLY diet are both key ... they type of workout is important but i think in the end they will all result in growth .. that said i don't like HST at all really
    Well said. We can tell that some here prefer strength and PL type routines, which is fine, but IMO in reality just about ANY program that is based in science and incorporates basic resistance training concepts will yield results in size and strength gains. The discussion here seems to be which is "best" in each department, whether or not that was the original intent. I am also making size and strength gains while on HST, so

  17. No matter what, I think it is a good idea to variate aspects of training in order to provide fresh growth and adaptation. One of the benefits of this is; it provides injury free training which is imperative to consistent growth.
  18. Bastardized HST


    Is great for keeping gains during PCT. you may even make some sleight gains depending on what compounds you used and the duration of the cycle.

    But as we all (should) know, variation is key in lifting. Sure I love HST, but I only do maybe 2, 8 week courses of it a year.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by jweave23
    Well said. We can tell that some here prefer strength and PL type routines, which is fine, but IMO in reality just about ANY program that is based in science and incorporates basic resistance training concepts will yield results in size and strength gains. The discussion here seems to be which is "best" in each department, whether or not that was the original intent. I am also making size and strength gains while on HST, so
    I agree. There is no best one. As long as you have a decent ECC/CON time frame you will grow. I usually start everyone on the programs that the majority will respond to but it sure doens't cover everyone. Some response to lower CON times with increased ECC times (DC training..I still laugh at the thought that he named it after himself). Some respond to lower ECC times but higher volume and some just like a normal CON/ECC ratio with low volume.

    You just have to tinker around and find what works for you and you don't to change routines completely to keep the body guessing. Just a change in rep time is sufficient enough.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  20. for variety's sake, and when properly implimented I think it has merit. I have never done a full length (6 weeks) cycle of HST, or a "pure" HST cycle, however. The variety of it, however, helped.

  21. I have been doing a 4 day split the past year or two, and tried HST this spring, I've got 2 weeks left.

    I love it! It works great for me. I think I will be doing it more often, the change has to be good. Probably alternate between a cycle of HST , and my traditional split every once in a while.

    I gained about 10lbs in the past 5 weeks, with minimal fat, bigger all around.
    The last two weeks of HST I'm doing is Negatives, TUT sort of priciples. I hear from people the 2 weeks of 5's and these 2 weeks of Negatives promote the most growth.

    So I have to chime in and say, for me, that HST was a welcome change to my routine although It took a lot of focus for me to want to lift lighter in the beginning (i was scared of getting smaller), but it was worth it in the end.

    Over on the HST board, people have said it is a good routine for cutting too. I am about to start cutting

  22. I'm in the middle of my 5th week of HST... It has worked pretty well...
    I'm all natural right now and diet is sketchy because of my schedule... but I've burned fat and gained muscle definition for sure... strength has gone up some, etc...
    i've gained about 10lbs naturally...

    I can definitely feel the difference when the rep scheme changes... i had gotten used to 15s, then changed to 10s (and i raised the volume too actually) and really felt blasted... then changed to 5s and raised the volume just a little bit more, and definitely feeling it after monday's workout... youch....

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Bean
    I'm in the middle of my 5th week of HST... It has worked pretty well...
    I'm all natural right now and diet is sketchy because of my schedule... but I've burned fat and gained muscle definition for sure... strength has gone up some, etc...
    i've gained about 10lbs naturally...

    I can definitely feel the difference when the rep scheme changes... i had gotten used to 15s, then changed to 10s (and i raised the volume too actually) and really felt blasted... then changed to 5s and raised the volume just a little bit more, and definitely feeling it after monday's workout... youch....
    Most people seem to get the best results from constant or increasing volume. One thing you might try is what's called the cluster style of HST, where you pick a reasonable volume to work with, say 20 to 30 reps per exercise, and then do what you need to do to hit that rep count during each phase of the HST cycle while maintaining the load increase. So if you're doing some weight that you can only get 8 reps out, you do that, rest pause, push as many out as you can again, rest pause, etc until you hit 20 reps. Basically this method allows you to keep volume constant. One danger is you still don't want to go past you 5 rep max until you hit the negatives. Once you get past that rep max it gets harder to maintain a sufficient time under tension, even when completing the 20 reps. The movements become too intense and start to demand too much recovery in between sets. Danger of overtraining becomes more likely.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    Most people seem to get the best results from constant or increasing volume. One thing you might try is what's called the cluster style of HST, where you pick a reasonable volume to work with, say 20 to 30 reps per exercise, and then do what you need to do to hit that rep count during each phase of the HST cycle while maintaining the load increase. So if you're doing some weight that you can only get 8 reps out, you do that, rest pause, push as many out as you can again, rest pause, etc until you hit 20 reps. Basically this method allows you to keep volume constant. One danger is you still don't want to go past you 5 rep max until you hit the negatives. Once you get past that rep max it gets harder to maintain a sufficient time under tension, even when completing the 20 reps. The movements become too intense and start to demand too much recovery in between sets. Danger of overtraining becomes more likely.
    This is what I have done with mhy current cycle. I only do about 16 reps per exercise, but that works well for me. (i.e 3 sets of 5's, 2 sets of 8's, etc).

  25. Quote Originally Posted by jweave23
    This is what I have done with mhy current cycle. I only do about 16 reps per exercise, but that works well for me. (i.e 3 sets of 5's, 2 sets of 8's, etc).
    I seem to be responding pretty well to the higher volume right now, doing 20 reps three times a week. Working nicely. When I get to the fives I may have to drop it though and throw in some drop sets instead. My joints aren't what they used to be.

  26. Any advice on using aas while on hst? I read the fact but it gave help for 2 week cycles. I am planning a 6 week cycle for a 12/8/5 schedule. Not sure if I should just go about the way I normally do, or If I should push my strength much more so while I am on. As is adding more weight each time and at the end of each 2 week period have the weight ending up higher than I could have previously lifted assuming the aas will bring my strength up to their. What are your opinions for using on hst? Go for it or use something else that will get better use of the aas (for mass building purposes)?

  27. *Shrug* some people respond well to HST, seems like most don't respond very well though (I think a lot of people who respond well also just needed to take a week and a half break from hitting the weights anyhow). I think like anything else there are some tenants of HST which are good (SD, reduced volume, increased frequency) but as a "system" it's off base.

    If you've got a routine that's been working for you stick with it while on cycle. If you don't, I'd suggest looking at adapting your routine to a "brawn" style routine, or if you're interested in really jacking your strength gains through the roof (at the POSSIBLE cost of some size gains, though not in my experience) a simplified WSB based routine.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by exnihilo
    *Shrug* some people respond well to HST, seems like most don't respond very well though (I think a lot of people who respond well also just needed to take a week and a half break from hitting the weights anyhow). I think like anything else there are some tenants of HST which are good (SD, reduced volume, increased frequency) but as a "system" it's off base.

    If you've got a routine that's been working for you stick with it while on cycle. If you don't, I'd suggest looking at adapting your routine to a "brawn" style routine, or if you're interested in really jacking your strength gains through the roof (at the POSSIBLE cost of some size gains, though not in my experience) a simplified WSB based routine.
    When you say "brawn" style...you mean from the book "Beyond Brawn?" Basically very brief workouts with compound exercises (and maybe a bit of rest-pause training?)

  29. Quote Originally Posted by snakebyte05
    Any advice on using aas while on hst? I read the fact but it gave help for 2 week cycles. I am planning a 6 week cycle for a 12/8/5 schedule. Not sure if I should just go about the way I normally do, or If I should push my strength much more so while I am on. As is adding more weight each time and at the end of each 2 week period have the weight ending up higher than I could have previously lifted assuming the aas will bring my strength up to their. What are your opinions for using on hst? Go for it or use something else that will get better use of the aas (for mass building purposes)?
    It's generally best to keep AAS short whileon HST, and place the cycle somewhere within the heavy lifting portion of the cycle. Say the last week of tens and first week of fives. For a longer AAS cycle I'd start it around the last week of tens and keep pushing through the fives, raising the weight when you can.

    As for HST being off base, Exnihilo, I don't quite know what you mean by that. There's nothing off base in the research that supports it. When I do find people who don't respond well to it, both in real life and on the internet, it's always because they are doing something wrong. Either they don't SD before the cycle, they lift heavier weights than they are supposed to too early in the cycle. Everyone I know who has tried it more than once, who has gone through the basic cycle, learned from it and started tweaking to make it better fit themselves, has great results with it. The 15/10/5/negatives set up is the basic one size fits all implimentation of HST. As such it's not going to be as effective for everyone. Searching on the HST message boards you'll find tons of tweaked routines that still fit the basic principles of HST. But they also allow for higher volume for those who feel they need it, or consistent volume, or increasing or decreasing volume. Some people have developed routines that favor bigger increments in the weight change. Some do cluster HST as I do. Some skip the fifteens, some take negatives and make them the base of much more of the cycle.

    People should also realize HST is not strength oriented. You will gain some strength, but nothing like you would if you hit a hybrid or specifically designed strength routine. It's also in my opinion the only weightlifting program that's truly on base, because rather than claiming it's based on science the actual science it's based in is posted on the site for anyone who wants to read it and discuss its import.

    If you want size and don't prioritize strength, I'd feel confident saying some tweaked form of HST will end up working best for you.
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