how many sets per exercise and workout?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by hugry4more

    lol Okaaaay, i don't really kno what ur trying to get at but here is the direct link to yates as a trainer do chest and bi..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y86TYYpaMoA
    Oh dude ur talking about his new segment on Bodybuilding.com? I'm talking about his actual training video from 1993


  2. Sub'd for knowledge
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.
    •   
       


  3. You can watch his new blood and guts from bodybuilding, but also he has videos of how he trained from back in the day. Although they are slightly different, the meaning and style is the same. a working set, and then a brutal set to utter failure then move on. And yes you need a spotter

  4. Quote Originally Posted by SuperMachoMan View Post
    Cool man, ya you have been at this a while. I am in Austin. Hook'em. but i am not that far along im only 3rd year haha. If you have the time id like to show you my workout and have you tweak it or just let me know what you think. I am starting my first ph cycle, Hdrol. and really trying to bulk up and add a good amount of weight and strength.
    Sure, send me a PM or post it up

  5. Quote Originally Posted by SuperMachoMan View Post
    this is targeted for ecto"s man. thats what i am, this will put mass on you. an ecto can not spend hours in the gym expending calories and overtraining and expect to get mass. You hit something, bring it to failure and movie on. when you first start it youll be like "what i have alot more energy, i can do more" but youll start putting on mass faster and your strength gains will shoot up. you gotta be serious though in the gym and really push yourself, and have a good spotter that can give you those negative.

    Yes, I think HIT does have its greatest effects on ectomorphs with "fast metabolisms".

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Yates did 3 or 4 sets, working up in weight, and then the final one was to failure with forced reps, etc? It was Mentzer who truly did only set per exercise

    Br
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Yes, I think HIT does have its greatest effects on ectomorphs with "fast metabolisms".

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Yates did 3 or 4 sets, working up in weight, and then the final one was to failure with forced reps, etc? It was Mentzer who truly did only set per exercise

    Br
    So still my question is then for the ecto which is better for size. Intensity or volume

  7. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Yes, I think HIT does have its greatest effects on ectomorphs with "fast metabolisms".

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Yates did 3 or 4 sets, working up in weight, and then the final one was to failure with forced reps, etc? It was Mentzer who truly did only set per exercise

    Br
    Ive read mentzer did the same thing as yates.

  8. Ya Mentzer was extreme, he do for his back 2 supersets of nautilus pullovers to lat pulldowns and finish with a deadlift and be done. dorian for some movements (usually his first like pullovers for back or incline for chest) will do a warmup, a working, then a failure. But then usally his next exercise will just be 2 sets the last one to failure.And on somethings only 1 set all out, but that was usually just when hed do a last set of single arm preacher curls or somethings. But high intensity is the best thing to do for size i am an ecto and this is my workout that i am doing to gain mass, its based of dorian's and HIT but i tweaked it for myself. Id love input (Zig Red let me know what you think)

    Cycle 1
    Chest/tri
    Flat Bench: 3 sets
    Incline Smith: 2 sets
    Dumbbell flys: 3 sets
    Pushdowns: 3 sets
    Scull-crusher: 2 sets
    Dips: 1 set
    Back/biPull-over: 3 sets
    HS pull-down 3 sets
    Barbell rows: 2 heavy sets
    Machine rows: 3 sets
    Hyperextension: 1 set
    Wide-grip machine row – 1 set
    Heavy dumbbell curl – 2 sets
    EZ curl – 2 sets
    Single arm preacher – 1 set
    Shoulders
    Smith machine military: 3 sets
    Seated side lateral: 2 sets
    Cable Side Laterals: 2 sets
    Read delt machine: 3 sets
    Dumbbell shrugs: 3 sets
    Legs/ for both cycles
    Front Raises: 4 sets
    Leg Press: 3 sets
    Hack squat: 2 sets
    Lying leg curl 2 sets
    Seated leg curls: 2 sets
    Calvess:5 sets

    Cycle 2
    Chest/tri
    Decline bench: 3 sets
    Incline dumbbell: 3 sets
    Incline flys or flat bench: 2 sets
    Scull-crushers: 3 sets
    Pushdowns: 2 sets
    Close grip bench: 1 set
    Back/bi
    Deadlifts: warm up –2 sets
    Wide pull-ups: 3 sets
    Cable row: 3sets
    Dumbbell row: 2 sets
    Preacher curl: 2 sets
    Incline dumbbell: 2 sets
    Shoulders
    Dumbell press: 3 sets
    Side laterals: 3 sets
    Front laterals: 2 sets
    Upright rows: 2 sets
    Rear deltoid machine: 3 sets
    Barbell shrugs: 2 sets


    Pyramided, Failure, Negatives on Last

  9. BTW when i have 3 or 4 sets written, thats not 3 or 4 to failure. i pyramid up and go to failue on my last and sometimes do some negatives

  10. Hey bro,

    If your main goal is attaining MASS, then you don't need an exact number of sets. Let intensity dictate whether you start your workout with a 3,4, or 5 sets of a compound exercise such as deadlift or squat. Once your heavy lifts are done you could stick to four sets of each following isolation exercise to further stimulate the target muscle you annihilated with the compound exercise. Try this for some lean mass.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by SuperMachoMan View Post
    (btw i am not trying to be an A$$, i like talking workout strategy and debating what is best, and new techniques, im pretty open to new workouts and trying stuff out)
    You could have fooled us.

  12. Hey bro,

    If your main goal is attaining MASS, then you don't need an exact number of sets. Let intensity dictate whether you start your workout with 3,4, or 5 sets of a compound exercise such as deadlift or squat. Once your heavy lifts are done you could stick to four sets of each following isolation exercise to further stimulate the target muscle you annihilated with the compound exercise. Try this for some lean mass.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by SuperMachoMan
    BTW when i have 3 or 4 sets written, thats not 3 or 4 to failure. i pyramid up and go to failue on my last and sometimes do some negatives
    Yea I figured. And on the ones with two sets is the first set a semi warm up last set all out..?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by SuperMachoMan View Post
    this is my workout that i am doing to gain mass, its based of dorian's and HIT but i tweaked it for myself. Id love input (Zig Red let me know what you think)

    I'll go day by day, then an over all comments:

    Day 1:
    I always suggest avoiding the smith machine, especially if your goal is to develop the chest as it lends to excessive lateral and horizontal forces (iow: the triceps and delts pressing against the shaft to raise the bar, versus the pecs moving it vertically).

    Skull crushers should make up the crux of your tricep training. These recruit the long head to the greatest degree, which does not recieve adequate work during pressing.

    Put more emphasis on dips and less on flys.

    Day 2:

    Nothing beats bent over barbell rows (prone grip) and pull ups for developing the back. I think your program should start with these.
    I'd sub in rack pulls in place of hyper extensions.
    Do shrugs on this day...they are over all part of the back.

    Day 3:
    Once again, sub the smith machine for a standing strict military press. Nothing is better at developing overall deltoid mass.
    I don't see the need for so many versions of side laterals. If anything, add in some single arm over head DB presses.
    This is a light day, and a good opportunity to add in ancillary/fixator/stabilizer work (more on that later).

    Day 4:

    What are front raises? Are these leg extensions?
    I think you need to squat. Squats should be a staple in any routine.
    You also need more hamstring work centered on hip extension. Take out the seated HS curls and add in rumanian dead lifts or good mornings.

    Over all comments:

    Upper body balance. Make sure every horizontal pressing movement you perform (i.e. chest press) is balanced out by a horizontal pulling movement (row). Flys should be matched with rear deltoid work. Over head presses and lateral raises should be matched with pull ups.

    In addition, I always suggest more ancillary pulling work to counteract the strong scapula protractors (delts and pecs). Perform supine rows, face pulls, band pull aparts, etc. All these can be done on your shoulder day.
    In addition, exercises to strengthen the lower traps, for two reasons. 1. They do not recieve adequate work in typical bodybuilding programs and play an integral role in shoulder stability (and thus your ability to hypertrophy the large muscle - pecs, etc.). 2. If you step on stage and have developed lower traps, people will be like "WTF?!?!" So, add in scapula dips, scapula pull downs, and prone scaptions.
    Next, get some external rotator cuff work in. 2-3 sets of external shoulder rotations with bands, cables or dumbbells will do wonders for your shoulder health.

    As for the lower body, I think you need to add in some hip abductor work (banded lateral walks, hip abd machine, etc.) for hip health. Also, some direct glute max work: dumbbell swings, hip pull throughs, hip thrusts. Doing these will increase your squat and deadlift, and thus allow you to further hypertrophy the "judged" lower body muscles - quads, hammies, etc.

    Next, you need some core work...and not just spinal flexion (crunches, etc.). A few sets of prone and side bridges every workout session will do wonders for your abdomen and spinal health.

    Br

  15. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Ronnie coleman, arnold, franco etc. all trained for 3-6 hours a day.

    I have an MS in exercise physiology, am a 1/2 semester away from a PhD in ex phys, and my dissertation research is focused on how to maximize hypertrophy.

    Br
    BAM!!! ahaha

  16. i do 3 sets if im super setting 4 if im not

  17. The older I get, the more I think that for the first 3-4 years, lifters should focus on strength and technique. There is no reason why anyone that is 160 lbs should be doing leg extensions and cable crossovers. Focusing on the compound lifts has started to slowly subside and I rarely see people doing lots of dips, pullups, deadlifts, standing overhead press, BB rows, etc.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  18. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I'll go day by day, then an over all comments:


    Br
    Awesome, I really appreciate it that man. Thats exactly what i needed for someone to do. I am definetly going to use alot or all of what you said (I have never even thought to do scapula dips and stuff) But ya i am going to add in and change some stuff. Also you said to match the pressing and the pulling, how do you usually split muscle groups up, do you like chest/tri or do you usually like chest/back or bi's and tri's?
    Thanks alot,

  19. Depends....I train and program via movements, not muscles.

    So I could do a push/pull for upper body. Chest/delts/tris and back/bis

    Or a horizontal: chest and horizontal rows (i.e.: traps/rhomboids: barbell, tbar rows, etc.) and vertical: over head presses and pull ups/dows (lats/teres)

    Right now I train my team with this split:

    Dead lifts, horizontal pulling
    Pecs/tris
    Vertical pulling
    Delts/triceps
    Squats/lower body

    Br

  20. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Depends....I train and program via movements, not muscles.
    This is exactly how I train. I prefer full body routines 10-1 over splits, unless the split is a push-pull or upper-lower.

    I believe it was you ZiR RED that posted the horizontal emphasis/vertical maintenance; quad emphasis/posterior chain maintenance routine at one point. I remember viewing it. It was either you or another guy. Personally, that style of training is my favorite. I love training with 2x a week frequency with basic compound movements and having a high rep day and a low rep day.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    The older I get, the more I think that for the first 3-4 years, lifters should focus on strength and technique. There is no reason why anyone that is 160 lbs should be doing leg extensions and cable crossovers. Focusing on the compound lifts has started to slowly subside and I rarely see people doing lots of dips, pullups, deadlifts, standing overhead press, BB rows, etc.
    I made a thread asking about this.
    This just pin pointed it a bit....
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    This is exactly how I train. I prefer full body routines 10-1 over splits, unless the split is a push-pull or upper-lower.

    I believe it was you ZiR RED that posted the horizontal emphasis/vertical maintenance; quad emphasis/posterior chain maintenance routine at one point. I remember viewing it. It was either you or another guy. Personally, that style of training is my favorite. I love training with 2x a week frequency with basic compound movements and having a high rep day and a low rep day.
    Yes, I have programmed around those and posted similar before.

    Br

  23. I didn't see this mentioned in any of the total sets in this thread.

    If the total set for any particular exercise...say Military, do you count the warm up sets as part of the whole number of sets?
    (i.e. 2 warm-up, 3 working = 5 sets or only 3 sets?)

  24. warmup. Like if i am doing bench i do the bar, then 135 as my warmup, then i start my real sets.

  25. In my programs I only list working sets. Warm up sets are in the range of 2-5 depending on the exercise and the intensity.

    Br

  26. Quote Originally Posted by VS91588 View Post
    I personally stopped worrying about how many sets I do for a particular muscle group. If I'm feeling strong and really good that day and I feel like doing an extra set or 2 or if I feel like adding an exercise that day I will. I go by how my body feels and it really helped me grow
    I am with you on this!!!!!!!!!!! listen and learn your body and you be surprised what you can do with your workouts .

  27. Hey Red, would you say that if I am eating right and cycling correctly I can spend 2-4 hrs in the gym 3-4 times a week without over training?

  28. The body will adapt to just about anything, given the work is progressively increased and the recovery is provided. Will 4 hour sessions be productive.....I don't know.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Jerime
    Hey Red, would you say that if I am eating right and cycling correctly I can spend 2-4 hrs in the gym 3-4 times a week without over training?
    Jay Cutler once said in an interview about his high volume training that you can never overtrain the body IF you are eating and providing your body with proper nutrition for what you are attempting and proper rest. But this is also coming from the guy who does not eat the typical 6 meals a day. He wakes up and eats meals throughout the night too

  30. Quote Originally Posted by VS91588 View Post
    Jay Cutler once said in an interview about his high volume training that you can never overtrain the body IF you are eating and providing your body with proper nutrition for what you are attempting and proper rest. But this is also coming from the guy who does not eat the typical 6 meals a day. He wakes up and eats meals throughout the night too
    He also has nothing else in his life but eating and training. As with anything a pro BB'er says, take it with a grain of salt because they are not only genetically gifted, but also have "assistance."
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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