how many sets per exercise and workout?

[AaronJP1]

The older I get, the more I think that for the first 3-4 years, lifters should focus on strength and technique. There is no reason why anyone that is 160 lbs should be doing leg extensions and cable crossovers. Focusing on the compound lifts has started to slowly subside and I rarely see people doing lots of dips, pullups, deadlifts, standing overhead press, BB rows, etc.

I made a thread asking about this.
This just pin pointed it a bit....

 

[ZiR RED]

This is exactly how I train. I prefer full body routines 10-1 over splits, unless the split is a push-pull or upper-lower.

I believe it was you ZiR RED that posted the horizontal emphasis/vertical maintenance; quad emphasis/posterior chain maintenance routine at one point. I remember viewing it. It was either you or another guy. Personally, that style of training is my favorite. I love training with 2x a week frequency with basic compound movements and having a high rep day and a low rep day.

Yes, I have programmed around those and posted similar before.

Br

 

[808Pump]

I didn't see this mentioned in any of the total sets in this thread.

If the total set for any particular exercise...say Military, do you count the warm up sets as part of the whole number of sets?
(i.e. 2 warm-up, 3 working = 5 sets or only 3 sets?)

 

[SuperMachoMan]

warmup. Like if i am doing bench i do the bar, then 135 as my warmup, then i start my real sets.

 

[ZiR RED]

In my programs I only list working sets. Warm up sets are in the range of 2-5 depending on the exercise and the intensity.

Br

 

[wtmdcg91]

I personally stopped worrying about how many sets I do for a particular muscle group. If I'm feeling strong and really good that day and I feel like doing an extra set or 2 or if I feel like adding an exercise that day I will. I go by how my body feels and it really helped me grow

I am with you on this!!!!!!!!!!! listen and learn your body and you be surprised what you can do with your workouts .

 

[Jerime]

Hey Red, would you say that if I am eating right and cycling correctly I can spend 2-4 hrs in the gym 3-4 times a week without over training?

 

[ZiR RED]

The body will adapt to just about anything, given the work is progressively increased and the recovery is provided. Will 4 hour sessions be productive.....I don't know.

 

[VS91588]

Hey Red, would you say that if I am eating right and cycling correctly I can spend 2-4 hrs in the gym 3-4 times a week without over training?

Jay Cutler once said in an interview about his high volume training that you can never overtrain the body IF you are eating and providing your body with proper nutrition for what you are attempting and proper rest. But this is also coming from the guy who does not eat the typical 6 meals a day. He wakes up and eats meals throughout the night too

 

[Rodja]

Jay Cutler once said in an interview about his high volume training that you can never overtrain the body IF you are eating and providing your body with proper nutrition for what you are attempting and proper rest. But this is also coming from the guy who does not eat the typical 6 meals a day. He wakes up and eats meals throughout the night too

He also has nothing else in his life but eating and training. As with anything a pro BB'er says, take it with a grain of salt because they are not only genetically gifted, but also have "assistance."

 

[VS91588]

He also has nothing else in his life but eating and training. As with anything a pro BB'er says, take it with a grain of salt because they are not only genetically gifted, but also have "assistance."

Ofcourse. That was my point when saying how he doesn't do the typical 6 meals a day an stuff. All he has to do daily/nightly is eat, train and relax

 

[ZiR RED]

He also has nothing else in his life but eating and training. As with anything a pro BB'er says, take it with a grain of salt because they are not only genetically gifted, but also have "assistance."

Not too mention the typical pro bodybuilding program is highly metabolic filled with few heavy compound movements (i.e.: bodybuilders are not squatting, deadlifting or cleaning 2-3 times a week such as a power lifter or olympic lifter)

 

[VS91588]

Not too mention the typical pro bodybuilding program is highly metabolic filled with few heavy compound movements (i.e.: bodybuilders are not squatting, deadlifting or cleaning 2-3 times a week such as a power lifter or olympic lifter)

I beg to differ. Just cuz a pro bodybuilder isn't trying to bench 1000lbs or whatever doesn't mean they don't do compound movements. Alot of pro bodybuilders squat, deadlift, bench.. No cleans but whatever. But yeah deff not 3 times a week I'll give you that. That's cuz a powerlifters main focuses are just the compound movements.

 

[ZiR RED]

I beg to differ. Just cuz a pro bodybuilder isn't trying to bench 1000lbs or whatever doesn't mean they don't do compound movements. Alot of pro bodybuilders squat, deadlift, bench.. No cleans but whatever. But yeah deff not 3 times a week I'll give you that. That's cuz a powerlifters main focuses are just the compound movements.

Exactly, the neural component of many bodybuilding programs, especially those done by pro's (at least, what I've seen published and on their videos) is not compound lift driven. Nor is the absolute intensity (% of the 1 RM) very high). This factor, in conjunction with what has already been mentioned allows for 4 + hours of weight lifting per day.

Br

 

[Rodja]

I beg to differ. Just cuz a pro bodybuilder isn't trying to bench 1000lbs or whatever doesn't mean they don't do compound movements. Alot of pro bodybuilders squat, deadlift, bench.. No cleans but whatever. But yeah deff not 3 times a week I'll give you that. That's cuz a powerlifters main focuses are just the compound movements.

The percentages are also not comparable. BB'ers do not train at 90% and beyond.

 

[VS91588]

A bodybuilder doesn't worry about how much he lifts but a bodybuilder will always take his muscles to 100% failure

 

[Rodja]

A bodybuilder doesn't worry about how much he lifts but a bodybuilder will always take his muscles to 100% failure

Training a muscle to failure does not have the CNS load that ME training does.

 

[Torobestia]

The older I get, the more I think that for the first 3-4 years, lifters should focus on strength and technique. There is no reason why anyone that is 160 lbs should be doing leg extensions and cable crossovers. Focusing on the compound lifts has started to slowly subside and I rarely see people doing lots of dips, pullups, deadlifts, standing overhead press, BB rows, etc.

1000% agreed.

 

[gapaulin]

A bodybuilder doesn't worry about how much he lifts but a bodybuilder will always take his muscles to 100% failure

I would agree with that in most instances, but 8X Mr. O Ronnie Coleman showed the world he could deadlift 800 pounds for two reps five weeks out of the Mr. Olympia contest. That is a lot of weight for anybody.

 

[SuperMachoMan]

and franco could deadlift even more

 

[VS91588]

Ronnie and Franco are exceptions to bodybuilding. But b4 Ronnie Deadlift 800 for about 4 reps he previously did other sets of 15, 12, 10 reps. A bodybuilder can mix hypertrophy training and strength training together. Pyramiding the weight up

 

[gapaulin]

Yes certainly. I just wanted to shed light on the 'no bodybuilder does low reps with high weight' stigma lol. And you gotta love Franco!

 

[hugry4more]

Just thought I would add that Ronnie also put himself outta the game by hurting himself. Once he hurt his back he was never able to recover. All those insane lifts take a toll for sure.

He is still one my favorites but I think health wise he really made some stupid choices buts that just my opinion.

 

[VS91588]

Yeah it deff takes a toll on your body. I personally like deadlifting w/ dumbbells lately. I been reading up on FST-7; 7 sets with 30-40 second rest periods. After my back workout I grab 100-110lb dumbbells and perform that. It's really hard and you get more of a squeeze on the way up cuz you are not limited by a barbell.

 

[hugry4more]

That's cool I noticed a lot of pro bbs do deads last or toward the end of there workouts to prevent injury n focus of perfect form more that the weight.

 

[AaronJP1]

Yeah it deff takes a toll on your body. I personally like deadlifting w/ dumbbells lately. I been reading up on FST-7; 7 sets with 30-40 second rest periods. After my back workout I grab 100-110lb dumbbells and perform that. It's really hard and you get more of a squeeze on the way up cuz you are not limited by a barbell.

Always full of knowledge.

 

[VS91588]

Always full of knowledge.

Thanks dude I appreciate it. I just notice alot of ppl keep their exercises so barbaric. The basic movements are great but change up the variations, change up the intensity. Trying new things keeps your body guessing, keeps your body changing.

 

[tigerdb2]

Doing deads last is definitely a double-edged sword though. Having fatigued upper back muscles and, even more problematic, core muscles is a recipe for disaster if you're not careful. It's night and day different between athletes (not to say BBers aren't) and BBers though, so I do understand.

 

[SuperMachoMan]

i do deads every other back workout. spinal erectors take a while to fully heal, so if your doin squats and barbell rows you dont need deadlifts every back.

 

[Rodja]

i do deads every other back workout. spinal erectors take a while to fully heal, so if your doin squats and barbell rows you dont need deadlifts every back.

Why would rows take a toll on the erectors? I train the erectors 2-3x/week and it has made my back stronger than ever with much less pain.

 

[SweetLou321]

Why would rows take a toll on the erectors? I train the erectors 2-3x/week and it has made my back stronger than ever with much less pain.

I train my erectors twice a week, but do most of my rowing chest supported for no other reason then westside does it like that haha.

 

[SuperMachoMan]

Why would rows take a toll on the erectors? I train the erectors 2-3x/week and it has made my back stronger than ever with much less pain.

o nice man. whats your deadlift at right now?

 

[ZiR RED]

It comes down to conditioning with the spinal erectors. If you slowly progress to where you are loading them 2-4 times a week, they will handle it just fine. If you go from loading them once a week to 3 times, or from a low loading to a really high loading, then you will have problems.

As for doing dead lifts last in typical bodybuilding programs....I think this is just old rhetoric and ego - ...the ego to want to maximize the (useless) lat pump prior to dead lifting.

Br

 

[Rodja]

o nice man. whats your deadlift at right now?

I pulled 495 traditional on Monday. I prefer to pull sumo, but it takes a toll on the hips and adductors/abductors, so I do 2 weeks of traditional, 1 week rack pull sumo, and 1 week full-range sumo.

 

[hugry4more]

It comes down to conditioning with the spinal erectors. If you slowly progress to where you are loading them 2-4 times a week, they will handle it just fine. If you go from loading them once a week to 3 times, or from a low loading to a really high loading, then you will have problems.

As for doing dead lifts last in typical bodybuilding programs....I think this is just old rhetoric and ego - ...the ego to want to maximize the (useless) lat pump prior to dead lifting.

Br

Hey red so I'm trying to design a new program and I'm still not sure how I wanna set it up. You said earlier hytroprophy benefits from linear periodization. The progress focus being adding volume. Is this true for the ectomorph as well. If so could u give me kinda like a example layout of what you recommend?

 

[SweetLou321]

I pulled 495 traditional on Monday. I prefer to pull sumo, but it takes a toll on the hips and adductors/abductors, so I do 2 weeks of traditional, 1 week rack pull sumo, and 1 week full-range sumo.

You still train westside? So this ME work im assuming?

 

[Rodja]

You still train westside? So this ME work im assuming?

It's ME work, but not really Westside per se since so much of their training is gear oriented and I'm a raw guy.

 

[SweetLou321]

It's ME work, but not really Westside per se since so much of their training is gear oriented and I'm a raw guy.

Right of course, I train WSC with variations since im raw also.

 

[ZiR RED]

Hey red so I'm trying to design a new program and I'm still not sure how I wanna set it up. You said earlier hytroprophy benefits from linear periodization. The progress focus being adding volume. Is this true for the ectomorph as well. If so could u give me kinda like a example layout of what you recommend?

I'd be happy to offer some tips and look it over for you. If you want me to design one, PM me and I can discuss that with you as well.

My suggestions are to work in micro cycles of 3-4 weeks, each one followed by a slight unloading period. In traditional periodization, you would start off working to increase muscular endurance...which would translate into some sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So 3 weeks of higher reps (12-15) with shorter rest periods with a focus on increasing volume via reps. Add 2 sets per workout on majors, and 1 set/wo on minor lifts. Take a week of reduced volume.

Then 3 weeks working on myofibril hypertrophy, with a focus on increasing volume via increases in strength. This would be sets in the 5-8 rep range. Add 1 set per workout on major lifts, and 1 the 2nd week on minor lifts. Take a week at reduced volume and intensity, then move to something new. perhaps a hybrid, in the area of 9-11 reps.

Br

 

[hugry4more]

I'd be happy to offer some tips and look it over for you. If you want me to design one, PM me and I can discuss that with you as well.

My suggestions are to work in micro cycles of 3-4 weeks, each one followed by a slight unloading period. In traditional periodization, you would start off working to increase muscular endurance...which would translate into some sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So 3 weeks of higher reps (12-15) with shorter rest periods with a focus on increasing volume via reps. Add 2 sets per workout on majors, and 1 set/wo on minor lifts. Take a week of reduced volume.

Then 3 weeks working on myofibril hypertrophy, with a focus on increasing volume via increases in strength. This would be sets in the 5-8 rep range. Add 1 set per workout on major lifts, and 1 the 2nd week on minor lifts. Take a week at reduced volume and intensity, then move to something new. perhaps a hybrid, in the area of 9-11 reps.

Br

Hey just wanted to let ya kno ill prob just work up something today using the example u posted n send it to ya for a critique if that's cool. Thanks again bro

 

[fadi]

I'd be happy to offer some tips and look it over for you. If you want me to design one, PM me and I can discuss that with you as well.

My suggestions are to work in micro cycles of 3-4 weeks, each one followed by a slight unloading period. In traditional periodization, you would start off working to increase muscular endurance...which would translate into some sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So 3 weeks of higher reps (12-15) with shorter rest periods with a focus on increasing volume via reps. Add 2 sets per workout on majors, and 1 set/wo on minor lifts. Take a week of reduced volume.

Then 3 weeks working on myofibril hypertrophy, with a focus on increasing volume via increases in strength. This would be sets in the 5-8 rep range. Add 1 set per workout on major lifts, and 1 the 2nd week on minor lifts. Take a week at reduced volume and intensity, then move to something new. perhaps a hybrid, in the area of 9-11 reps.

Br

this is very helpful, I will try and follow this approach. How often do you train each body part?

 

[ZiR RED]

this is very helpful, I will try and follow this approach. How often do you train each body part?

Anwhere from once to 3-4 times a week. For hypertrophy purposes usually twice a week.

Br

 

[VS91588]

Anwhere from once to 3-4 times a week. For hypertrophy purposes usually twice a week.

Br

I like training chest/bi and back/tri twice a week but I feel like if I do it more than 1 month I don't recover as quick and I'm extremely sore (even when I'm on my gear). I'm a high volume guy and I do cut my sets down when I do train twice a week. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong

 

[ZiR RED]

I like training chest/bi and back/tri twice a week but I feel like if I do it more than 1 month I don't recover as quick and I'm extremely sore (even when I'm on my gear). I'm a high volume guy and I do cut my sets down when I do train twice a week. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong

Are you doing more negatives/forced reps/failure sets, etc.? If you are training more frequently, then doing techniques that induce more muscle damage should be cut down upon drastically. That's why I suggested earlier doing high volume/frequency for 3-4 weeks, then doing a week of low volume and a lot of negatives/forced reps...then a week unloading and repeat.

Br

 

[VS91588]

Are you doing more negatives/forced reps/failure sets, etc.? If you are training more frequently, then doing techniques that induce more muscle damage should be cut down upon drastically. That's why I suggested earlier doing high volume/frequency for 3-4 weeks, then doing a week of low volume and a lot of negatives/forced reps...then a week unloading and repeat.

Br

Yeah I always go my heaviest on my last set and I will drop set and go for hypertrophy. And I always have a spoter so I'm always safely taking my body to muscular failure w/out a bar crushing my neck lol

 

[indysoccer16]

Are you doing more negatives/forced reps/failure sets, etc.? If you are training more frequently, then doing techniques that induce more muscle damage should be cut down upon drastically. That's why I suggested earlier doing high volume/frequency for 3-4 weeks, then doing a week of low volume and a lot of negatives/forced reps...then a week unloading and repeat.

Br

So on the high rep weeks you could train each part twice, and then on the low rep weeks hit them once a week hard?

 

[ZiR RED]

So on the high rep weeks you could train each part twice, and then on the low rep weeks hit them once a week hard?

You could do twice a week on either, as long as you are not taking too many sets to failure or using forced reps/negatives.

In fact, you could go for 3 weeks. The first two weeks stopping everything a rep shy of failure, then on the final workout of the final week take sets to failure and do some forced/negatives. Then take a week to unload/recover, and restart. This is just one example of planned over reaching, recovery, adaptation.

Br

 

[SuperMachoMan]

will one of you guys post up your workout schedule of a week like
Sunday: chest
Monday: back etc
and what you do for each day. I am trying to see how yall fit in hitting 3 body parts a week
id appreciate it
thanks

 

[ZiR RED]

Here's what I have the bodybuilding team do:

Mon: Deadlift, horizontal pulls
Tue: Bench press and triceps accessory
Wed: Pulls ups and shrugs
Thu: Over head press and biceps accessory
Fri: Lower body

Ideally I would have a day of rest in between wed/thur...but these are the only times we have available to get into the strength and conditioning complex for practice.

 

[Rodja]

Currently using 5/3/1 with DeFranco assistance work

Monday

Squats
Lower back
Unilateral quad work
Heavy abs
Heavy conditioning

Tuesday

Bench
Chest
Row of some kind ss mid-traps
Triceps
Upper traps
Light conditioning

Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Deads
Hams
Unilateral quad work
Heavy abs
Heavy conditioning

Friday

Standing overhead press
Lats ss mid-trap
Assistance delt work
Upper traps
Arm ss

Saturday
Light hamstring and lower back
Light conditioning