Best Overall Chest Development Excercise
- 08-13-2004, 02:45 PM
Every time you work chest,whether flat incline decline,your weaker triceps are more likely to give out before your chest. When i want to give a muscle full stimulation,i will use an exhaustion set right before my work set. Pec or flys for chest,pullups or machine pulldowns for biceps,tricep pushdowns for yup triceps. It works great
- 08-14-2004, 05:51 PM
09-22-2004, 08:18 PM
What I found to work awesome is doing incline movements on 1 day and flat movements about 4 days later. I have been doing that for about 4 weeks now and my chest is getting bigger and bigger, never had a problem with chest though
(best body part). Granted I'm taking a ****load of anabolics my bench has been sky rocketing lately and I'm loving this new routine!
09-22-2004, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Juiceman
I could never get my incline close to my flat bench and this has been helping a bit. For instance I could never incline more than 250 for 8, now I'm doing 300 for 6 which is pretty decent, still not where I want it by any means but I think this split has definately helped me out!
09-22-2004, 08:28 PM
Incline dumbells do it for me, that's for sure. I was a barbell-aholic, but recently I've just been doing one heavy working set of both flat and inclide barbell, then I go to moderate range (5-8) of really slow, really disciplined, and really deep dumbbell presses. I think it's an awesome routine for me. I get to overload my muscle and keep my bench high by doing 3-4 (w/ assist on last ones) of heavy weight and then switch it up to a better chest developing exercise. I'm actually expecting to see strength gains soon. My stabilizers are improving drastically!! That should hopefully help me overcome my sticking-point.
10-05-2004, 01:10 PM
IMO when i notice a part of my chest falling behind, then i train that area first. For example I am personally not happy with my upper and inner chest area, this sems like a difficult area for me to build mass. So I begine my routine with incline BB presses, then do incline DB presses, flat bench then fly's. I Have never done decline presses because the flat bench and fly's hit the lower chest as well. So in short if you have a lagging area, work it first before any other chest area. I have no opinion on which builds the chest better, your routine is built around you, so genetics, and personal preference and comfort are what build chest, tailored to your body not someone elses.
10-18-2004, 12:35 AM
i never used to do much pressing with db's. i just thougth you should do the exercises with which you can use the most weight like flat bench bb and incline bb.
since i first read this thread a couple months ago i've started using db inclines and i really love them. i've noticed more hypertrophy in my chest overall as well as strength improvement in the flat bench bb and military press, for which i am also doing db presses now.
11-14-2004, 01:26 PM
I've found that in my experience, ALL are great variations and ALL actually rank higher or lower for effectiveness depending upon (and this is an important aspect) what ones have been used recently. Simply, if I've been working heavy incline BB presses for a strength cycle, switching over to flat BB or DB movements for the next will surely show improvement on those lifts in that my anterior delts have had more asked of them from the incline cycle. After a cycle of flat chest work, I'll focus on a cycle of heavy weighted dips to recruit more tricep (indirect) in that chest movement. A short cycle of decline presses (major tri involvement) next will allow to have the recent improvment in tricep muscular and neural function put into place in a pressing movement. So, in my quest to improve my chest's overall development, ALL of the exercises and their variations play a major role in the success of the ones to follow.
EDIT: This variety is great however, one must train with purpose, not just mix things up for the sake of doing it either. Like I said, each exercise I select has a purpose, mainly, it is part of a much larger macrocycle really lasting months.
11-14-2004, 10:03 PM
11-23-2004, 03:31 PM
11-24-2004, 02:55 PM
bench cable press. horizontal adduction all the way --> resistance all the way+ multiaxial loading--> more hypertrophy
11-24-2004, 03:34 PM
Supinated cable flies. Almost pulls the delts out of the move completely. Almost all pecs, and a nearly constant resistance (cables).
11-25-2004, 05:33 AM
if you love youre subacromial bursa and your shoulder as a whole you'll lose this one, as it puts the shoulder in a very unhealthy position (max internal rotation + abduction) unless you are VERY flexible i your shoulder. and I mean VERYOriginally Posted by ZackMurphy
also, when you start internaly rotated you start with a shorter pectoralis.
11-27-2004, 07:33 PM
That's interesting. I had thought about the advantage/disadvantage of each of the related muscles (in trying to TRULY isolate the pecs), but didn't think much of joint and bursal sac issues. Hmm.Originally Posted by judge-mental
11-28-2004, 04:20 AM
I see no point in isolation unless for rehab/prehab or perturbed motor patterns. you wan to recruit the chest? load more weight. triceps/delts fatigue first? flys/pullovers, wide 1 and quarter bench etc are the answer.Originally Posted by ZackMurphy
11-29-2004, 01:45 PM
Well, ignoring the injury issue for the time being, the point of pec isolation was quite simply to hit the pecs without letting the anterior and medial delts or triceps weasel in on the action.Originally Posted by judge-mental
I love compound movements, but I also like isolation to pre-exhaust or for a general change of pace. And since all other pec movements heavily recruit anterior delts (at least) and most recruit some medial delt and/or tris, the supinated flys serve a purpose.
I appreciate your input.
11-29-2004, 04:14 PM
11-29-2004, 06:09 PM
Well, you're right about no delts, but pull overs recruit some triceps, and some lats. And the decline fly - yeah, that's more iso than most. I don't have a decline at home, but you're right about the movement itself. Probably a small amount of anterior delt, but less than a flat fly, bench press, or any other arm adduction.Originally Posted by vafla
11-30-2004, 04:22 AM
pullover = no tricpes (pronated grip)Originally Posted by ZackMurphy
decline fly= absolutley no delts, unless youre skeleton and muscualature is not human.
nice thing about pullover is it aslo brings up you intercostals, pretty muscle IMO
12-07-2004, 07:00 PM
Sorry for the delay - haven't been online much. I was going to come back to this faster but got sidetracked.Originally Posted by judge-mental
I don't know much about the bursa and the fluid sac there - is that what you're suggesting would take a beating from this movement? Why? Except for the supination, it's not different from any pec fly.
The way I'm doing this move, I start fully abducted, supinated grip, and I keep the grip supinated. No elbow bend. So there's no real internal rotation. At least not the way I'm picturing it.
And I agree you'd start with a shorter pectoralis major if you began the movement internally rotated, but you're not - your arms are out like a regular fly, just supinated. If anything, the supination should lengthen the pectoral slightly.
You know? Enlighten me. Thanks.
12-08-2004, 06:05 AM
just like a regular fly just supinated? youre arms are spinated in a regular fly.
man i thought you meant pronated earlier cause that would get the front delts out and that was your purpose.
suppinated is palms up --> regular flys
12-08-2004, 11:48 AM
Just like a regular fly, but with the palms fully supinated.Originally Posted by judge-mental
Regular flyes, 99/100 guys have their palms facing inward, toward each other. Usually slightly supinated at the start, then not supinated at all. Most guys. You may do them differently, but you'd be the exception to the rule.
This variation is most easily done with a cable crossover machine, laying on a bench on the middle with the pulleys at bench height. You can use any handles that are comfortable, and lead with your elbows. Most flyes you'd do the "hug the tree motion". Not these. These, you finish the motion with your lower arms parallel to each other. This removes the medial delt almost completely, and puts the anterior delt in a position where it really can't help much. Consequently, you don't need to use much weight.
You cannot do these with DBs. You MUST keep the palms fully supinated the whole time. It's essential. But the movement hits the pecs in a way unlike anything most guys have ever felt. You can do them VERY light - 10-20# max, and you'll feel your chest in a whole new light.
But having the palms pronated would still allow anterior and medial delt recruitment. You'd still get pecs, of course, too.
Anyway, I'm always interested in potential chronic issues, but I didn't really see a problem with this one.
These were not my idea. A trainer in Utah I know advocates a number of interesting movements to isolate previously un-isolatable groups (lats, pecs), and damned if they don't work. Not that we should ONLY be isolating - just a movement to augment a chest routine. Try it - if you do it right, you'll be amazed.
12-08-2004, 12:40 PM
ok lets get this straight
suppination happens in the elbow
external rotation happens in the shoulder
so suppiantion in terms of flys is meaningless if you want to be exact
the question is if your shoulder is externaly rotated (you can answer by "palms facing X")
12-08-2004, 04:52 PM
Yes, supination happens at the elbows, but it's evidenced by the postion of the palms, so I reference the palms. But supination, when full, DOES impact the upper arm slightly. At least, it slightly turns my upper arm along with my lower arm. Yours, too, I would imagine.Originally Posted by judge-mental
In terms of the adduction of the arm, the supination has little overall impact, but it changes the physiology of the ability of the deltoids to contribute to the motion, since they're now at a mechanical disadvantage. Much like when the biceps brachii takes a back seat during hammer curls (with the palm mostly or totally pronated). It just can't help as much as with the pronation as it can with the palms supinated. Same thing here, but it pulls the deltoids out of the mix.
Anyway, my point is simply that with the supination, you decrease the ability of the delts to help. And THAT, in turn, amps up the pec impact.
Know what I mean?
Truly not trying to be argumentative - I love this stuff, and I'm thinking out loud as much as I am typing it out.
12-08-2004, 06:05 PM
so are you palms facing each other? facing your head? your legs?...
still didnt get it.
external or internal rotation...
12-08-2004, 07:08 PM
In the normal pec fly position, but supinated, so palms facing my "up", my head.Originally Posted by judge-mental
And the flexion isn't a rotation - it's just adduction. Just like a traditional pec fly.
12-09-2004, 06:42 AM
damn you'd flunk any biomecanics course. your shoulder is maximaly externaly rotated
anyway I got you. you dont get the deltoid out, you just make it work harder.
I don't want to continue beating this to death. if your going straight sidewais I see no injury in the horizon but imbalance looming
just do a regular fly
12-09-2004, 10:09 AM
WTF.Originally Posted by judge-mental
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying about the rotation - of course you start the motion in an externally rotated position, but you don't internally rotate it at all during the flexion/extension. That's why I'm saying there's no rotation. But I appreciate your taking the time to throw out the insult anyway.
Whatever, man. Sorry to have bothered you.
12-09-2004, 10:53 AM
that was in a freindly manner, because I didnt seem to get to you. take it easy.
lets go over anatomy:
horizontal adductors (agonists in flys) - anterior delt, pec
external rotation in shoulder - both relatively being( as they are internal rotators) stretched and in a dissadvantage. thus both work harder.
suppination and external rotation go hand in hand but do not equal each other.
12-14-2004, 01:38 AM
I like doing dumbells on a swiss ball You need to really work hard to stabilize those bitches, and it hits your chest REALLY hard.
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