Best Overall Chest Development Excercise
- 12-08-2004, 06:05 AM
- 12-08-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally Posted by judge-mental
Regular flyes, 99/100 guys have their palms facing inward, toward each other. Usually slightly supinated at the start, then not supinated at all. Most guys. You may do them differently, but you'd be the exception to the rule.
This variation is most easily done with a cable crossover machine, laying on a bench on the middle with the pulleys at bench height. You can use any handles that are comfortable, and lead with your elbows. Most flyes you'd do the "hug the tree motion". Not these. These, you finish the motion with your lower arms parallel to each other. This removes the medial delt almost completely, and puts the anterior delt in a position where it really can't help much. Consequently, you don't need to use much weight.
You cannot do these with DBs. You MUST keep the palms fully supinated the whole time. It's essential. But the movement hits the pecs in a way unlike anything most guys have ever felt. You can do them VERY light - 10-20# max, and you'll feel your chest in a whole new light.
But having the palms pronated would still allow anterior and medial delt recruitment. You'd still get pecs, of course, too.
Anyway, I'm always interested in potential chronic issues, but I didn't really see a problem with this one.
These were not my idea. A trainer in Utah I know advocates a number of interesting movements to isolate previously un-isolatable groups (lats, pecs), and damned if they don't work. Not that we should ONLY be isolating - just a movement to augment a chest routine. Try it - if you do it right, you'll be amazed.
- 12-08-2004, 12:40 PM
ok lets get this straight
suppination happens in the elbow
external rotation happens in the shoulder
so suppiantion in terms of flys is meaningless if you want to be exact
the question is if your shoulder is externaly rotated (you can answer by "palms facing X")
12-08-2004, 04:52 PM
Yes, supination happens at the elbows, but it's evidenced by the postion of the palms, so I reference the palms. But supination, when full, DOES impact the upper arm slightly. At least, it slightly turns my upper arm along with my lower arm. Yours, too, I would imagine.Originally Posted by judge-mental
In terms of the adduction of the arm, the supination has little overall impact, but it changes the physiology of the ability of the deltoids to contribute to the motion, since they're now at a mechanical disadvantage. Much like when the biceps brachii takes a back seat during hammer curls (with the palm mostly or totally pronated). It just can't help as much as with the pronation as it can with the palms supinated. Same thing here, but it pulls the deltoids out of the mix.
Anyway, my point is simply that with the supination, you decrease the ability of the delts to help. And THAT, in turn, amps up the pec impact.
Know what I mean?
Truly not trying to be argumentative - I love this stuff, and I'm thinking out loud as much as I am typing it out.
12-08-2004, 06:05 PM
so are you palms facing each other? facing your head? your legs?...
still didnt get it.
external or internal rotation...
12-08-2004, 07:08 PM
In the normal pec fly position, but supinated, so palms facing my "up", my head.Originally Posted by judge-mental
And the flexion isn't a rotation - it's just adduction. Just like a traditional pec fly.
12-09-2004, 06:42 AM
damn you'd flunk any biomecanics course. your shoulder is maximaly externaly rotated
anyway I got you. you dont get the deltoid out, you just make it work harder.
I don't want to continue beating this to death. if your going straight sidewais I see no injury in the horizon but imbalance looming
just do a regular fly
12-09-2004, 10:09 AM
WTF.Originally Posted by judge-mental
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying about the rotation - of course you start the motion in an externally rotated position, but you don't internally rotate it at all during the flexion/extension. That's why I'm saying there's no rotation. But I appreciate your taking the time to throw out the insult anyway.
Whatever, man. Sorry to have bothered you.
12-09-2004, 10:53 AM
that was in a freindly manner, because I didnt seem to get to you. take it easy.
lets go over anatomy:
horizontal adductors (agonists in flys) - anterior delt, pec
external rotation in shoulder - both relatively being( as they are internal rotators) stretched and in a dissadvantage. thus both work harder.
suppination and external rotation go hand in hand but do not equal each other.
12-14-2004, 01:38 AM
I like doing dumbells on a swiss ball You need to really work hard to stabilize those bitches, and it hits your chest REALLY hard.
01-14-2005, 04:04 PM
i hear ya bro,if not carefull the 1st time you do these you will end up with a dumbbell in your face.excellent for stablizer work.
02-05-2005, 11:44 AM
meh, i benched for yrs, and never really got a huge chest. I did gain a lot of strength though.
But, when i started doing bench cable cross overs, and flat dumbell press/inclined dumbell presses, my chest just started kinda growing over a period...really impressive.
I'd rather those than barbell benches any day of the week...
---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
02-25-2005, 12:12 AM
MaNiaK flyes....about to hit the hay so I might come on here tomorrow to explain but I explain in detail in my pic section and on NP.com in the exercise forum!
03-11-2005, 10:50 PM
03-14-2005, 08:21 PM
i like doing them towards the end. incline > flat/decline > dips > flysOriginally Posted by nolinenowait
03-21-2005, 11:39 AM
I really like Weighted Dips, leaning forward to isolate more on the chest. It also will help you get your max up on the bench press. Just my 2c
03-21-2005, 06:40 PM
04-03-2005, 11:24 PM
Ha boy this is an old thread. Kinda funny the first two posters are both banned from anabolicminds LOL
04-05-2005, 12:19 AM
04-05-2005, 12:27 AM
04-05-2005, 12:31 AM
I voted for the Incline Barbell but was wondering why flys were not included in the poll. Flys are awsome for the chest. I may have had a harder choice if that was included in the poll.
04-05-2005, 12:40 AM
05-14-2005, 11:31 AM
05-16-2005, 08:40 PM
Agreed Weighted dips
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05-17-2005, 04:51 PM
weighted dips leaning forward keeping elbows out to isolate pecs and incline db presses w/ bench slightly inclined at various angles....add some cable crossovers at end of routine and modified flyes for a nice pec stretch..voila.
05-17-2005, 05:39 PM
I like Heavy dumbell flat press. If you keep your range of motion narrow on one set and slightly wider on another set you can pound your chest.
05-31-2005, 05:56 PM
I did that today actually on the Hammer strength machines....Originally Posted by perfect270
wide chest hammer strength
and flat bench hammer strength
followed by decline
and weighted dips w/ 2 45s...
Chest is still pumped, I feel like I got a good workout in
06-27-2005, 09:58 AM
In the book beyond brawn the author says that Dips are superior to the flat bb bench. I also read that Dorian Yates used incline dumbells as a staple chest exercise because he said it uses the bulk of the pec muscle.
07-02-2005, 10:11 PM
I like the Hammer Strength iso-lateral incline bench a lot. You use bi-lateral power to push actual weight plates. Even better, your hands almost toch at the top, so you get an awesome contraction. I love Hammer Strength for almost anything.
07-03-2005, 04:26 PM
07-15-2005, 12:08 PM
Lately chest day is
2 set Incline BB 6-8 rep
2 set Incline DB 8-10 rep
2 set Dip 10-12 rep
2 set flat fly 10-12 rep
8 sets of fiber ripping love.
07-24-2005, 03:27 PM
08-11-2005, 09:39 PM
02-07-2006, 04:38 AM
That's a very good link..Most of the knock on BB Bench is the lack of contraction, but the technique Milos uses the contraction is definitely there as well as the maximum range of the stretch..BB Bench
02-07-2006, 12:28 PM
In the old days pre 1970's dip were called the upper body squat by many trainees. Arthur Jones used to have his trainees do it.
02-19-2006, 09:20 PM
02-24-2006, 10:33 PM
03-12-2006, 04:13 AM
hehehe. don't u just wish you could teach them a lesson.... if they say there's 2 of 'em and just one of you, just show them your guns and say "actually more like 3 of me and 2 of you". bwahahahahaOriginally Posted by Biggs
03-16-2006, 06:09 PM
03-23-2006, 08:01 PM
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