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Chiropractic / Musculoskeletal / Joint pain Q & A...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    That is very well possible, but ya see, the mis-alignment or pressure on the nerve can be happening anywhere between your head and shoulder, without examining your myself, I cannot determine where! I mean try a few experiments by pressing along the bones on the side of your neck (C1, C2, C3, C4, C6, & C7) to see if by doing so it causes or intensifies the numbness, if no, then firmly press around your shoulder girdle to see if you can duplicate or intensify the numbness, that is call palpation and is exactly how I would detect it on you or someone else!

    I have had something similar happening to me where my pinky and half of my ring finger (pinky side) and my hypo-thenar pad on my right hand are numb and it is constant, was very hard for me to figure out where it is coming from, but I have it down to either somewhere in my forearm or wrist. When I visited one of my Chiro buddies, he adjusted both my wrist and elbow and it didn't really get better, nor did I even notice a temporary difference, yet when I bend both my elbow and extend my wrist it intensifies! I did have another Chiro buddy suggest that it is in my forearms and did get some very minor and very temporary relief when he used his activator to thump away on my forearm (wrist extensors), so I have concluded I need a deep tissue massage and there must be some serious muscle adhesions and/or scar tissue in there for some reason, has to be it!
    Well I aint going to Ga. for that! LOL!

    I guess that I should have said that the "numbness" (most of the time just feel like I just really worked the muscles hard-strained) is the worst in my arm pit towards the back more. Almost feels like I have my shirt (even when wearing sleeveless) bunched up in my arm pit and cutting off circulation. I will make an appt with my chiro and see if he can't get this worked out for me. Thanks for the reply, gives me more to go off of when I see my chiro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post
    Well I aint going to Ga. for that! LOL!

    I guess that I should have said that the "numbness" (most of the time just feel like I just really worked the muscles hard-strained) is the worst in my arm pit towards the back more. Almost feels like I have my shirt (even when wearing sleeveless) bunched up in my arm pit and cutting off circulation. I will make an appt with my chiro and see if he can't get this worked out for me. Thanks for the reply, gives me more to go off of when I see my chiro.
    No worries Bro! Sounds to me like you are just getting to HUGE for your own skin, LoL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    No worries Bro! Sounds to me like you are just getting to HUGE for your own skin, LoL!
    Lol! Although I have put on a good 25 lbs of lean mass in the last 4 years, I'm thinking that's probably not the case!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post
    Lol! Although I have put on a good 25 lbs of lean mass in the last 4 years, I'm thinking that's probably not the case!
    Your Ripping through your skin the way the "Incredible Hulk" rips through his clothes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Your Ripping through your skin the way the "Incredible Hulk" rips through his clothes!
    The worst part is when the pants don't stretch to keep the "boys" from gettin crushed!
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    Just got back from chiro and he said it was my C6 and C7 that were giving me problems. The way he explained it to me was that the fluid was going out into the micro fibers through tears in the fibers and causing the disc to have inflammation which was then putting pressure on the nerves causing the pain and numbness in my left arm. He adjusted my neck and back and then had me get on the decompression table for 30 min. That was a new one for me! After that, my neck was sore! The assistant then had me sit there with an ice pack for another 15 min. which really helped out a lot! Neck feels a lot better but arm still has a bit of tingling/numbness in it. He said it would take a while to get this healed up because I let it go too long but that it would heal up and be back to normal. Told me some exercises/stretches to do at home (most of which I already do! LOL!) to help things out. He also told me that it might be best if I didn't do my heavy shrugs for a while--at least not for reps. Said I could still do them but just hold it flexed for a while instead of multiple reps. and to make sure I kept my head up and not look down. My normal chiro was out of town so I went to another one that I met at the Men's Encounter. It is nice going to a chiro that lifts and understands the lifting mentality! My other one would have just told me to stop all together like he has in the past. I think I found a new chiro!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post
    Just got back from chiro and he said it was my C6 and C7 that were giving me problems. The way he explained it to me was that the fluid was going out into the micro fibers through tears in the fibers and causing the disc to have inflammation which was then putting pressure on the nerves causing the pain and numbness in my left arm. He adjusted my neck and back and then had me get on the decompression table for 30 min. That was a new one for me! After that, my neck was sore! The assistant then had me sit there with an ice pack for another 15 min. which really helped out a lot! Neck feels a lot better but arm still has a bit of tingling/numbness in it. He said it would take a while to get this healed up because I let it go too long but that it would heal up and be back to normal. Told me some exercises/stretches to do at home (most of which I already do! LOL!) to help things out. He also told me that it might be best if I didn't do my heavy shrugs for a while--at least not for reps. Said I could still do them but just hold it flexed for a while instead of multiple reps. and to make sure I kept my head up and not look down. My normal chiro was out of town so I went to another one that I met at the Men's Encounter. It is nice going to a chiro that lifts and understands the lifting mentality! My other one would have just told me to stop all together like he has in the past. I think I found a new chiro!
    I agree with you Bro, I had quite a few patients that were weight-lifters and professional athletes because of my sports/athletics/weight-lifting background! I mean it is easier said than done to just tell someone, "Oh, your just gonna have to stop" I mean sometimes that is necessary, but sometimes if you just avoid certain activities and stay in tuned with your body and know what, when, why, & how to avoid certain exercises/movements, you will heal up just fine! I wish more CHIRO's educated their patients in that way, to become more in tune with their body and what it is telling them and why, etc. Happy for ya Bro, glad you found a new CHIRO you really like, is very important!
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    Had a friend give me his inversion table that he no longer used and also is letting me borrow a "Bio-mat". From what I see, its an infra-red with negative ion heating pad. Anybody ever hear of these/ use one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post
    Had a friend give me his inversion table that he no longer used and also is letting me borrow a "Bio-mat". From what I see, its an infra-red with negative ion heating pad. Anybody ever hear of these/ use one?
    Not real familiar with a mat/heating pad that uses infra-red, but at the last Chiropractic office I worked for, we had an old school infra-red lamp and it worked very well for reducing inflammation!
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    I love the back massage/roller table at my chiropractors. probably too expensive to buy for home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I love the back massage/roller table at my chiropractors. probably too expensive to buy for home.
    Bran spanking new they are $1,800.00 with delivery, so if you found a local Chiro going out of business, you could definitely pick up a used one in the range of $700-$1,000 if not cheaper depending on how old it is and the condition it is in!
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    i'll have to keep an eye out
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    i'll have to keep an eye out
    On the plus side, they are very simple machines that tend to last 20+ years with little to no maintenance, the padding and exterior covering is what wears out and needs to be changed every 5-10 years depending on the volume of use per day!
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    I have a knee issue and my chiro cant figure out what it is, can you help me out sir?
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    I have a knee issue and my chiro cant figure out what it is, can you help me out sir?
    I will do my best, but as I have stated before in past posts, Knees are not my specialty! There are two other guys that frequent this thread... BEZOE & CELC5 that could probably do a better job than I could, but regardless of where/who the help comes from, lets start with some basic information... Which knee (right or left)? Which leg is your dominent leg (right or left)? Is it anterior (front) or posterior (back) of your knee? Is it medial (inner) or Lateral (outer) knee? Please explain the different motions that aggravate your knee and which motions do not? Which orthopedic tests did your last CHIRO perform, if you don't remember the names of them, just describe what he did/had you do? Did he see anything on x-rays? How did this injury come about, suddenly (if so what happened) or slowly got worse over time? On a scale of 1-10 how bad is the pain, even if it is a zero at rest, describe it when it is at its worse or when you do something that aggravates it? Have you ever experienced this pain before? Is there anything you do that makes it better or worse (daily life things, position, walking or resting it a certain way, ice, heat, anything)? Lets start with answering those questions and by then hopefully BEZOE or CELC5 will chime in for the assist!
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    Haha thank you, sorry I'm just getting annoyed with this damn knee I have had problems for 3 years after getting T-boned in a car accident.

    Injury : Right knee, lateral, inability to stretch quadricep to the full extent. Lack of stability.

    Some background history, I had a mensicectomy of the lateral meniscus removing 1/3 of it.

    The cause of my most recent injury is uncertain in origin, but for around a year, when the leg is bent and the foot is moved upwards as if I were to cross my legs, there is always an intense pain and someone of a tearing feeling. Originally I could pop whatever the issue was back in by forcing my leg back into the other direction (it always felt like a slight fibular head dislocation, as it was also protruded a bit more every time this occurred).

    It is my right knee, there is a band (I say band because it is a solid lump that flexes when i extend my leg) running from what appears to be my vastus lateralis, along the lateral side of my patella. It is above my patella, causing it to "catch" every time I attempt to stretch my quadricep. There was swelling but no bruising.

    I suspect it could be my iliotibial band as I once did muay thai, and do like to run long distances. As well as the fact if I flex my quad it no longer has the form it used to.

    My chiro did the usual crucial ligament tests, they aren't torn at least. He was more focused on aligning my hips and spine.

    Initially the pain was an 8 in comparison my root canal after breaking a molar was a 5. The shin/fibula hurt the majority of the day, now just the fibular head is a bit tender. If I stand on it for some time or walk long distances it begins to hurt. When i attempt to stretch my quad the head of the vastus lateralis begins to hurt. I will post pictures the knee looks quite deformed.

    To relieve the pain I tend to take hot baths while breaking down the Iliotibial band, as well as massaging the calve and using pressure to relieve the quad, and using my foam roller to work on my glutes and hamstrings. It has been helping but I would rather know the cause. I stopped using ice as swelling isn't really the issue.

    Aggravated by this even a slight movement feels as if it dislocates the fibular head.
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    Here is the knee, stretched at the same length as the left knee, notice the absence of a knee cap and the odd form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    Haha thank you, sorry I'm just getting annoyed with this damn knee I have had problems for 3 years after getting T-boned in a car accident.

    Injury : Right knee, lateral, inability to stretch quadricep to the full extent. Lack of stability.

    Some background history, I had a mensicectomy of the lateral meniscus removing 1/3 of it.

    The cause of my most recent injury is uncertain in origin, but for around a year, when the leg is bent and the foot is moved upwards as if I were to cross my legs, there is always an intense pain and someone of a tearing feeling. Originally I could pop whatever the issue was back in by forcing my leg back into the other direction (it always felt like a slight fibular head dislocation, as it was also protruded a bit more every time this occurred).

    It is my right knee, there is a band (I say band because it is a solid lump that flexes when i extend my leg) running from what appears to be my vastus lateralis, along the lateral side of my patella. It is above my patella, causing it to "catch" every time I attempt to stretch my quadricep. There was swelling but no bruising.

    I suspect it could be my iliotibial band as I once did muay thai, and do like to run long distances. As well as the fact if I flex my quad it no longer has the form it used to.

    My chiro did the usual crucial ligament tests, they aren't torn at least. He was more focused on aligning my hips and spine.

    Initially the pain was an 8 in comparison my root canal after breaking a molar was a 5. The shin/fibula hurt the majority of the day, now just the fibular head is a bit tender. If I stand on it for some time or walk long distances it begins to hurt. When i attempt to stretch my quad the head of the vastus lateralis begins to hurt. I will post pictures the knee looks quite deformed.

    To relieve the pain I tend to take hot baths while breaking down the Iliotibial band, as well as massaging the calve and using pressure to relieve the quad, and using my foam roller to work on my glutes and hamstrings. It has been helping but I would rather know the cause. I stopped using ice as swelling isn't really the issue.

    Aggravated by this even a slight movement feels as if it dislocates the fibular head.
    Man... minus getting my hands on that knee and feeling around and doing a little motion-palpation, it is really hard for me to say, definitely cannot pin-point a direct diagnosis with the information I have! I'll tel you what, it sounds like it needs a good adjustment to really set that bugger (fibular head) back into its normal juxtaposition!
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    thanks, i updated with a pic, you can see the deformation haha

    edit: that isn't swelling its solid
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    Damn... it is causing your right calf to atrophy even!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Damn... it is causing your right calf to atrophy even!
    Sad thing is my legs look tiny after only 3 weeks and I do squat/deadlift heavy.

    I guess I should go and see my orthopedic surgeon again?
    edit: reason I haven't gone to him is it's really expensive and im a broke college student.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    Sad thing is my legs look tiny after only 3 weeks and I do squat/deadlift heavy.

    I guess I should go and see my orthopedic surgeon again?
    edit: reason I haven't gone to him is it's really expensive and im a broke college student.
    isn't there some cheap health insurance plan through the school?
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    I just got kaiser which should be activating soon, lots of loopholes to get through before they will send me for an MRI though. They suck, I grew up with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaly_boogal View Post
    I just got kaiser which should be activating soon, lots of loopholes to get through before they will send me for an MRI though. They suck, I grew up with them.
    Kaiser does suck and they are one of the best insurance companies for denying claims due to loop-holes in their fine-print! Example: "Oh... your injury happened on a Thursday, well it clearly states on page 51, paragraph 7, line 32 that we do not accept responsibility for any injuries that occur on Thursdays, sorry, is there anything else we can help you with today? Do you mind staying online and participating in a quick survey to rate your quality of service today?"
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    Anymore orthopedic questions?? I want some action! (even though i want people to be healthy too lol)
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Anymore orthopedic questions?? I want some action! (even though i want people to be healthy too lol)
    well, how about working with me on what I should do with my chest + shoulder routines to minimize issues with my shoulder?
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    Easy, what does your routine look like now? You looking for something prophylactic or are you currently having issues?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Ok so my MRI findings were overall

    Possible superior labral tear
    suspected articular surface partial thickness tear of the digital supraspinatus
    subacromial bursitis
    impingement with hyptrophic change of the AC joint encroaching upon the supraspinatus

    there was some increased mri signal in the labrum so he couldn't rule out the labral tear. the partial tear is approx 7-8mm wide and 75% of the cross section diameter of the tendon. The impingement is with anterior and lateral down sloping of the acromion.

    so outside of stop lifting + surgery, any good suggestions as to how to put a workout routine together that targets chest effectively ? I can live with my shoulders not improving much.
    Overall, i've seen decent improvement with the ART + Graston, but I think we've hit maximum improvement there. Right now I do varied chest presses (really playing with elbow and hand spacing to avoid pain) and doing fairly little for direct shoulder work. My chiropractor has suggested that I do no shoulder exercises where my elbows go higher than my shoulders.

    As an example for chest this week I did single arm db press, cable crossovers, incline bb press, machine flys
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    Well.. the chiro is accurate in his suggestion to avoid shoulder abduction past 90 degrees. Because of the "impingement" findings via MRI, this precaution will help protect against reaggravating symptoms. So.. any movements that involve abduction past parallel with the ground should be avoided. If you want to perform an abduction movement like a shoulder lateral raise, do it with your thumb up towards the ceiling.

    As far as the SLAP lesion goes.. theres really nothing that will eliminate symptoms. Avoid shoulder internal and external rotation to end range. If you wanna hit chest thoroughly without exaccerbating the shoulder pain.. perhaps try some partial range movements like DB presses to only 6-8 inches off chest for a few sets then 6-8 inches from completely locking out. So ultimately, you arent completeing a full blown range of motion each rep.

    Give me some feedback on what you think of this
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    Sorry if its hard to take me seriously because of my avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Well.. the chiro is accurate in his suggestion to avoid shoulder abduction past 90 degrees. Because of the "impingement" findings via MRI, this precaution will help protect against reaggravating symptoms. So.. any movements that involve abduction past parallel with the ground should be avoided. If you want to perform an abduction movement like a shoulder lateral raise, do it with your thumb up towards the ceiling.

    As far as the SLAP lesion goes.. theres really nothing that will eliminate symptoms. Avoid shoulder internal and external rotation to end range. If you wanna hit chest thoroughly without exaccerbating the shoulder pain.. perhaps try some partial range movements like DB presses to only 6-8 inches off chest for a few sets then 6-8 inches from completely locking out. So ultimately, you arent completeing a full blown range of motion each rep.

    Give me some feedback on what you think of this
    Thats an interesting strategy, i'll give it a whirl. I had been trying some other ideas, using reverse grip (to end up with lower working weight but same stimulation) and more reliance on the smith machine so I can more easily play with working out which angle of upper arm and what grip position works best.
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    Sorry it took so long. I had to consult the literature on this one.

    Here are reasons why I dont like either of these exercises: Reverse grip presses put your shoulder in an inefficient vulnerable externally rotated position. With a reverse grip press, the biceps brachii vigorously contracts to pull the humerus into flexion. The BB originates on an area of the scapula (superior glenoid fossa) that also connects to the glenoid labrum (which you have ruptured):
    Name:  glenoid-labrum-tear.jpg
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    Therefore I suggest conventional grip over reverse. HOWEVER, I dont like smith machine as a primary exercise because of its lack of planes of movement. It only allows one plane out of 3 dimentionally possible planes. So no matter how you position your body and arms etc. you are still limited to a single, vetical plane of movement. This, over time, creates faulty proprioceptive feedback which will result in faulty joint movement and undesired joint stress. Its called "pattern overload". So contrary to what people think- smith and other machines are good for rehab, they are not optimal for anyone.

    But, like I always say, listen to your body. If dumbbells irritate the shoulder dont do them. Im gonna try and compile a list of doable exercises for you.
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    The dumbbells usually aren't too bad, but when I go heavy I sometimes end up in a situation where a slight bit of upper arm angle off causes enough momentary pain that I end up dropping the dbs rather than completing. Its not super frequent, and more when i'm doing 90+ lb dbs. This week I had tried doing one arm db presses, and that was a total bitch even with 70s but not painful in the shoulder.
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    Yea im sure its a real bitch lol. That labral cartilage surrounds the humeral head so with any glenohumeral movement you risk aggravating that area. Unfortunately it may continue to bother you without surgery. That cartilage isnt real viable tissue so primary healing isnt likely. Good news is the MRI conclusions make it look pretty managable with surgery at this point.
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    yea, i'm just still on the fence as to whether to go that route. I should do it this year, as i've already paid my deductible for the year on insurance.
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    Well if funds are the only thing holding you back.. I would say save money and go for it. Ive never heard of an alternative resolution to surgery for this injury.. especially if youre gonna keep lifting. If your insurance is good and pays a large percentage of the cost, I'd do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Well if funds are the only thing holding you back.. I would say save money and go for it. Ive never heard of an alternative resolution to surgery for this injury.. especially if youre gonna keep lifting. If your insurance is good and pays a large percentage of the cost, I'd do it.
    EasyEJL... As much as I hate to ever recommend surgery to anyone, I will recommend it as a last resort and from what I have seen and read from what you are saying and how you feel etc. I have to agree with Bezoe, I mean if insurance is going to cover it or even a large percentage, it really sounds like the route to go as far as being able to continue lifting and solving the problem once and for all, I mean it will always be an area of predisposed weakness and you will always have to warm it up correctly and take care of it, but at least then if you do so, you will be lifting better and stronger and most importantly, with no PAIN!!!
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    How long is recovery on that likely to be? Not "ready for lifting" but recovery to where you don't have to do day to day tasks with adaptations?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    How long is recovery on that likely to be? Not "ready for lifting" but recovery to where you don't have to do day to day tasks with adaptations?
    That all depends on the technique they use when going in, the best I can give you is my own personal experience with having my chest ripped off the bone, which I would imagine is a longer healing process, but I could be wrong, Bezoe would be the best at answering this because he helps rehab people with these types of injury on a daily basis! Anyway, I would say the 1st week, I took off of work and was really babying the hell out of it, the 2nd week, I was functional, but as you said had to figure out ways to do things without really using my left arm, by the 3rd week, I was out of the sling and using it, but very little and very lightly, I still would not open doors with my left arm or try to lift anything heavier than like 3Lbs, by the 4th week, I was really starting to use it and only noticed things here and there, by the end of the 6th week, I would say I was pretty much back to normal as far as day to day use, minus lifting or pulling anything over 15Lbs, I was back in the gym by the end of my 8th week and spent 2 weeks only doing legs, core, & cardio, by the end of my 10th week, I was starting to do biceps & triceps real carefully, by the end of the 12th week I started doing shoulder presses, lat pulls and extremely light chest (more of just repetitive motion vs. weight). I would say by 18-20wks I was lifting everything the same except for chest, which I babied my chest for an additional 4 months at which time I contacted my doctor because I was 8mos post surgery and he said as long as I start increasing the weight very slowly and always keep my rep range around 15reps/set I should be fine and he was right, other than a left shoulder problem now, (which I believe is from compensation) I have no problems with my chest what-so-ever. Anyway, in a weird sort of way it was a good thing that happened to me, in the sense that it made me start lifting everything much lighter and I've made the best mass gains and fat-loss of my life since I made that switch in my workout style! Hope this helps Easy, no one person or one injury is ever going to be the exact same, but I hope this gives you an idea of what to expect!
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    Thanks, i'm mostly thinking about when to try and schedule it, based on work and home plans over the next 6 months.
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