Chiropractic / Musculoskeletal / Joint pain Q & A...

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    Yes it recommends doing leg exts heavy with fast movement opposed to slow or medium speed- Thats where the damage happens. Yes, according to this article, lunges would be a better alternative because they are "closed chain"- the femur (thigh bone) rotates on the tibia (shin bone) instead of visa versa.
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    By degree, to you mean certification? Ive never heard of a university offering a degree in personal training, but that would be cool. I would think you could buy a study program online. You could probably buy an A and P book and take the tests off the CD in the back. ORRRRRRRR you could just tune in to this thread often
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    By degree, to you mean certification? Ive never heard of a university offering a degree in personal training, but that would be cool. I would think you could buy a study program online. You could probably buy an A and P book and take the tests off the CD in the back. ORRRRRRRR you could just tune in to this thread often
    When I was in Austin Community College I was working on an associates degree in Personal Fitness Training. It was only an Associates at a community college, and the only difference in it and the certification course was that it included normal college basics, but I thought it would be more beneficial than just the certificate. Now I'm planning on just taking the certification course.
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    I don't know how I missed this thread before, Doc! I've actually got a couple questions for ya. My right leg is ever so slightly longer than the left (you can see the bottom of my right knee is just barely lower than the left). Is there anything to do to remedy that? I'm gonna try wearing an insert in the left shoe, but I don't know that it'lll help. And more importantly, my right lat comes down lower than my left, which I'm pretty sure is because my left shoulder seems to be slightly rolled forward. It is very noticeable (to me) when I do a shrugging motion upward - I can feel my left shoulder moving straight up and my right one pulling back a bit. I noticed, too, in pictures from Hawaii, when I was standing with my hands at my sides, that my left arm tends to be more in front of my body that straight to the side. Is this something that a chiropractor can help with? In terms of realignment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    I don't know how I missed this thread before, Doc! I've actually got a couple questions for ya. My right leg is ever so slightly longer than the left (you can see the bottom of my right knee is just barely lower than the left). Is there anything to do to remedy that? I'm gonna try wearing an insert in the left shoe, but I don't know that it'lll help. And more importantly, my right lat comes down lower than my left, which I'm pretty sure is because my left shoulder seems to be slightly rolled forward. It is very noticeable (to me) when I do a shrugging motion upward - I can feel my left shoulder moving straight up and my right one pulling back a bit. I noticed, too, in pictures from Hawaii, when I was standing with my hands at my sides, that my left arm tends to be more in front of my body that straight to the side. Is this something that a chiropractor can help with? In terms of realignment.
    MWB - Yep, Bezoe, Celc, & I have been doing our best to give people Musculoskeletal and sport's related injury advice as we can, I must say we have a pretty good team and it is always good to get more than just one or even two opinions!

    Now to business... I have found in my practice that a person having one leg longer than the other by a significant amount (as in enough to make a difference) is very rare and is called an anatomical short leg. Usually what it is, is an imbalance in the hips which causes one leg to apear longer than the other, which is also why chiropractors do leg length checks to determine which side of the hips are misaligned. As far as one shoulder being rolled back or a scapula winging, stuff like that is common and can be corrected in a few different, but similar ways, Chiropractors typically will realign the structure (structure affects function) and typically the muscles will relax and follow suit, if not then they will advise a massage to loosen the muscles, they will also, very similar to a PT advise postural correcting and strengthening stretches and exercises! If you want to determine if you truly have one leg longer than the other, and not just a misalignment of the hips, you will have to measure your legs and compare their lengths. The way to do this is to measure from the ASIS (Anterior Superior Iliac Spine) down to the center of your Medial Malleolus. In English your ASIS is the very front part of your hip that sticks out on the ventral (belly) side of your body you have one on either side of your body and your medial malleolus is your inside ankle bone. Measure those on both sides and compare, I usually measure in centimeters and anything less than two centimeters is insignificant and the bigger the difference from 2cm and up the more significant it can be and would require special orthotics (sole inserts) in order to compensate for it so your body doesn't have to compensate for it, which is what you are noticing whether the short leg is being caused by an anatomical short leg or a misalignment of the hips is what I'm trying to help you determine! Get back to me on your Anatomical leg lengths by doing the measurement I suggested above. Also, Bezoe is the our resident PT guru, so I'm sure he would be the best at giving you some functional stretches and exercises to help with your situation/condition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    Yes it recommends doing leg exts heavy with fast movement opposed to slow or medium speed- Thats where the damage happens. Yes, according to this article, lunges would be a better alternative because they are "closed chain"- the femur (thigh bone) rotates on the tibia (shin bone) instead of visa versa.
    Thanks a lot Bezoe. I found that walking down the steps sideways helps with the pain, lol.
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    Doc,

    I hurt my lower back doing a deadlift about 2 weeks ago. I didn't know it at the time, but I was at the onset of a cold when it happened. I was struggling with my workout that day but decided to press on and in the process of pulling 375 lb, I lifted my hips too early and hurt something at the base of my lower back. It is in the middle of my back, slightly to the left of side at the top of the tail bone. Now, everytime I bend down, there is a feeling of building pressure in that area. It is not really a sharp pain but more like hard downward pressure on the area. Any idea what this could be? And if so, is this something that I can just continue to push through with my workouts, or do I need to shut it down for a while to give it time to heal. I feel it when I do certain back and leg routines like deadlifts, squats, bent over rows, etc, but the pressure is not so intense that it prohibits me from doing these exercises.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerpVTX View Post
    Doc,

    I hurt my lower back doing a deadlift about 2 weeks ago. I didn't know it at the time, but I was at the onset of a cold when it happened. I was struggling with my workout that day but decided to press on and in the process of pulling 375 lb, I lifted my hips too early and hurt something at the base of my lower back. It is in the middle of my back, slightly to the left of side at the top of the tail bone. Now, everytime I bend down, there is a feeling of building pressure in that area. It is not really a sharp pain but more like hard downward pressure on the area. Any idea what this could be? And if so, is this something that I can just continue to push through with my workouts, or do I need to shut it down for a while to give it time to heal. I feel it when I do certain back and leg routines like deadlifts, squats, bent over rows, etc, but the pressure is not so intense that it prohibits me from doing these exercises.
    OK, I will start by saying that I can't be certain without actually examining you personally, but from your explanation... it sounds like what us Chiro-Quackers call a text-book subluxation (mis-alignment) of your Sacro-iliac joint on your left side, which is putting pressure on a nerve and causing possible muscle spasm and general pain and when/if you move the wrong way and it puts more pressure on the nerve/s it can cause sharp even shock-like pain! The best advice to you is to ask around and seek out the services of a local Chiropractor, the sooner the better, as in the sooner you go, the fewer visits it will require to put in place and stay there! I am not saying the joint cannot and will not move back into it's normal juxtaposition, but that may take a lot of time and pain, so why chance it! I do advise to ask around though and try and find one that specializes in sports related injuries! Good luck my friend and if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask and I will do my best to help you, injuries suck for a lack of better words!
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    Thanks Doc. I appreciate the advice. I will try and find a local Chiropractor to get this thing fixed.
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    Anytime Bro, this is why I put myself out there, just trying to do my part on this awesome Forum and help others as they have helped me! Kind of like "Pay it Forward" Damn, I Love that movie, LoL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    I don't know how I missed this thread before, Doc! I've actually got a couple questions for ya. My right leg is ever so slightly longer than the left (you can see the bottom of my right knee is just barely lower than the left). Is there anything to do to remedy that? I'm gonna try wearing an insert in the left shoe, but I don't know that it'lll help. And more importantly, my right lat comes down lower than my left, which I'm pretty sure is because my left shoulder seems to be slightly rolled forward. It is very noticeable (to me) when I do a shrugging motion upward - I can feel my left shoulder moving straight up and my right one pulling back a bit. I noticed, too, in pictures from Hawaii, when I was standing with my hands at my sides, that my left arm tends to be more in front of my body that straight to the side. Is this something that a chiropractor can help with? In terms of realignment.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    MWB - Yep, Bezoe, Celc, & I have been doing our best to give people Musculoskeletal and sport's related injury advice as we can, I must say we have a pretty good team and it is always good to get more than just one or even two opinions!

    Now to business... I have found in my practice that a person having one leg longer than the other by a significant amount (as in enough to make a difference) is very rare and is called an anatomical short leg. Usually what it is, is an imbalance in the hips which causes one leg to apear longer than the other, which is also why chiropractors do leg length checks to determine which side of the hips are misaligned. As far as one shoulder being rolled back or a scapula winging, stuff like that is common and can be corrected in a few different, but similar ways, Chiropractors typically will realign the structure (structure affects function) and typically the muscles will relax and follow suit, if not then they will advise a massage to loosen the muscles, they will also, very similar to a PT advise postural correcting and strengthening stretches and exercises! If you want to determine if you truly have one leg longer than the other, and not just a misalignment of the hips, you will have to measure your legs and compare their lengths. The way to do this is to measure from the ASIS (Anterior Superior Iliac Spine) down to the center of your Medial Malleolus. In English your ASIS is the very front part of your hip that sticks out on the ventral (belly) side of your body you have one on either side of your body and your medial malleolus is your inside ankle bone. Measure those on both sides and compare, I usually measure in centimeters and anything less than two centimeters is insignificant and the bigger the difference from 2cm and up the more significant it can be and would require special orthotics (sole inserts) in order to compensate for it so your body doesn't have to compensate for it, which is what you are noticing whether the short leg is being caused by an anatomical short leg or a misalignment of the hips is what I'm trying to help you determine! Get back to me on your Anatomical leg lengths by doing the measurement I suggested above. Also, Bezoe is the our resident PT guru, so I'm sure he would be the best at giving you some functional stretches and exercises to help with your situation/condition.
    A+ advice. Pretty much touched on everything.

    One shoulder being higher than the other, along with the leg length discrepancy leads me to believe that there may be a malalignment in your pelvic area. Get somebody to take a look at that place Doc described called the ASIS, while you are standing. Get them to check the height on each side. If one side is higher than the other, it may indicate some illiosaccral issues which could be causing one leg to appear longer and one shoulder to appear higher. This can be managed, as Doc said, with manual realignment and strengthening to correct any muscle imbalance in the area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezoe View Post
    A+ advice. Pretty much touched on everything.

    One shoulder being higher than the other, along with the leg length discrepancy leads me to believe that there may be a malalignment in your pelvic area. Get somebody to take a look at that place Doc described called the ASIS, while you are standing. Get them to check the height on each side. If one side is higher than the other, it may indicate some illiosaccral issues which could be causing one leg to appear longer and one shoulder to appear higher. This can be managed, as Doc said, with manual realignment and strengthening to correct any muscle imbalance in the area.
    Thanks for chiming in as well, Bezoe

    I actually got in to the chiropractor this afternoon; printed off what Doc had wrote up on here and gave that to him, too, telling him I had a friend who was a chiropractor and that's what he suggested for me. I'm going back in tomorrow to go over the x-rays and start some physical therapy most likely. He did say that there is in fact a misalignment in my pelvic area.

    I'm not sure how much work I have ahead of me, but I'm excited to finally get started!

    Thanks so much for your help, guys. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Thanks for chiming in as well, Bezoe

    I actually got in to the chiropractor this afternoon; printed off what Doc had wrote up on here and gave that to him, too, telling him I had a friend who was a chiropractor and that's what he suggested for me. I'm going back in tomorrow to go over the x-rays and start some physical therapy most likely. He did say that there is in fact a misalignment in my pelvic area.

    I'm not sure how much work I have ahead of me, but I'm excited to finally get started!

    Thanks so much for your help, guys. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated.
    Anytime Bro, did you measure or have your leg lengths measured the way I told you? If so do you actually have an anatomical short leg? Like I said, almost everyone is off by 1-2 cm's, but more than that is considered a true anatomical short leg which would require orthotics!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Anytime Bro, did you measure or have your leg lengths measured the way I told you? If so do you actually have an anatomical short leg? Like I said, almost everyone is off by 1-2 cm's, but more than that is considered a true anatomical short leg which would require orthotics!
    Did my first therapy session this morning after going over the x-rays -- very evident when you look at the x-rays. Not hunchback of Notre Dame significant or anything, but you can notice.

    It's just the pelvic imbalance; aside from that, the legs are almost dead-on in length. My neck is pretty much perpendicular to the ground, so there's not a slope in it and my lower back is a bit off as well. However, as long as he can work on that pelvic imbalance for me, which should help even up the shoulders, that's all I need.
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    Awesome Bro... I told you us Chiro-Quackers could fix you!!!

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    Ok so my MRI findings were overall

    Possible superior labral tear
    suspected articular surface partial thickness tear of the digital supraspinatus
    subacromial bursitis
    impingement with hyptrophic change of the AC joint encroaching upon the supraspinatus

    there was some increased mri signal in the labrum so he couldn't rule out the labral tear. the partial tear is approx 7-8mm wide and 75% of the cross section diameter of the tendon. The impingement is with anterior and lateral down sloping of the acromion.

    so outside of stop lifting + surgery, any good suggestions as to how to put a workout routine together that targets chest effectively ? I can live with my shoulders not improving much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Ok so my MRI findings were overall

    Possible superior labral tear
    suspected articular surface partial thickness tear of the digital supraspinatus
    subacromial bursitis
    impingement with hyptrophic change of the AC joint encroaching upon the supraspinatus

    there was some increased mri signal in the labrum so he couldn't rule out the labral tear. the partial tear is approx 7-8mm wide and 75% of the cross section diameter of the tendon. The impingement is with anterior and lateral down sloping of the acromion.

    so outside of stop lifting + surgery, any good suggestions as to how to put a workout routine together that targets chest effectively ? I can live with my shoulders not improving much.
    This is just so everyone can picture what you are talking about...

    .................... ^
    ............. Bicep tendon (inside biciptal groove of the head of the Humerus)

    As far as working out, exercises, man, I'm going to have to say this is a little more of Bezoe's territory, I mean a 75% tear of the Labrum, I could be wrong... and please correct me if I'm wrong Bezoe, but I'm thinking surgery might be your best option at this point! Also, Bezoe, if I'm wrong, please explain, in for the education on this one!
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    Yeah, thats what i'm hoping for (bezoe's input on the workout). Effectively my chiropractor said I could continue working out, but I have to drop or modify any exercises that cause any pain at all and that if I do that, I should be fine avoiding surgery.

    also though, they were pretty clear that these were "maybe and seems" not necessarily 100% sure. So that i'd need to go get MR Arthoscopy done with a contrast injection to be totally sure on all of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, thats what i'm hoping for (bezoe's input on the workout). Effectively my chiropractor said I could continue working out, but I have to drop or modify any exercises that cause any pain at all and that if I do that, I should be fine avoiding surgery.

    also though, they were pretty clear that these were "maybe and seems" not necessarily 100% sure. So that i'd need to go get MR Arthoscopy done with a contrast injection to be totally sure on all of it.
    Well Bro, I'm sorry you are experiencing this and hoping I'm wrong and Bezoe can guide you through this avoiding surgery! Believe me, I'm a Chiropractor that chooses surgery as a last resort, so again, I hope I'm wrong about its necessity! Good Luck and keep us informed!
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    Scotty,

    Ive just read up on EasyJL's shoulder injury and Im glad I did cause it seems similar to mine. However, my pain is more on the anterolateral and posterolateral aspects of my left shoulder and are most painful during an upright rowing motion and anytime I abduct my left arm. I also regularly experience loud, but painless and sometimes pain-relieving pops near my AC joint. I also cannot to do any pressing movements without pain.

    I did recently wrench my left upper back during a bad squatting session which apparently affected my shoulder as well. For the day or two post back injury my shoulder would occasionally feel like there was a knife jammed in my glenohumeral joint or near my acromion preventing me from raising my arm even close to my head. That however, only lasted for 2 or 3 days an has yet to happen again since.

    I honestly dont know if these two injuries are related cause my shoulder's been bothersome since about '07 when I was doing LOTS of behind the neck military with considerable weight, which I must add I DO NOT do anymore. But ever since I wrenched my back a few weeks ago my shoulder has only been getting worse. I actually just took about 18 days off from any lifting at all and today tried to flat bench just the bar and I could feel trouble brewing. At 135lbs I gave up and went home so as not to make it any worse.

    I am clueless. I have a deep tissue massage scheduled for July 19th and am calling a well-known, local orthopedist tomorrow to see if its just inflammation and maybe get an MRI or a cortisone injection. Do you, Bezoe, or Celc5 have any suggestions??? Im about at my wits end.

    Thanks in advance

    P.S. You guys are do an awesome thing with this thread. Especially taking the time to carefully read each and every question posed. IMO, you are doing waaay more than you guys know. Thanks again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post
    Scotty,

    Ive just read up on EasyJL's shoulder injury and Im glad I did cause it seems similar to mine. However, my pain is more on the anterolateral and posterolateral aspects of my left shoulder and are most painful during an upright rowing motion and anytime I abduct my left arm. I also regularly experience loud, but painless and sometimes pain-relieving pops near my AC joint. I also cannot to do any pressing movements without pain.

    I did recently wrench my left upper back during a bad squatting session which apparently affected my shoulder as well. For the day or two post back injury my shoulder would occasionally feel like there was a knife jammed in my glenohumeral joint or near my acromion preventing me from raising my arm even close to my head. That however, only lasted for 2 or 3 days an has yet to happen again since.

    I honestly dont know if these two injuries are related cause my shoulder's been bothersome since about '07 when I was doing LOTS of behind the neck military with considerable weight, which I must add I DO NOT do anymore. But ever since I wrenched my back a few weeks ago my shoulder has only been getting worse. I actually just took about 18 days off from any lifting at all and today tried to flat bench just the bar and I could feel trouble brewing. At 135lbs I gave up and went home so as not to make it any worse.

    I am clueless. I have a deep tissue massage scheduled for July 19th and am calling a well-known, local orthopedist tomorrow to see if its just inflammation and maybe get an MRI or a cortisone injection. Do you, Bezoe, or Celc5 have any suggestions??? Im about at my wits end.

    Thanks in advance

    P.S. You guys are do an awesome thing with this thread. Especially taking the time to carefully read each and every question posed. IMO, you are doing waaay more than you guys know. Thanks again.
    Well, it definitely sounds like you have some things going on in there, unfortunately without a few muscle tests and some ROM (range of motion) tests, and a few properly angled X-rays, it is really hard to determine if an MRI is necessary at this point. I will say this, if your insurance covers it at little to no cost, it is definitely a better safe than sorry kind of thing to get one done! As for what I would be doing in the meantime, it has been longer than 72hrs so it can be considered a chronic injury and I would recommend contrast Heat/Ice. I personally always prefer to do the heat first and always end with ice unless it is right before the gym, so that way it acts as a sort of pumping action, heat causes dilation of blood vessels speeding things up and allows for excess blood to flow to the affected area, delivering oxygen and nutrients good for healing and the ice constricts the blood vessels and helps prevent inflammation & pain, so they really work well together, but it isn't a true fix if there is a deeper underlying reason for all this pain, definitely try and get it checked out if at all possible!
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    Thanks Scotty for the quick reply. You said pretty much what I expected to hear after reading as many of the other posts in this thread.

    On a good note, I made an appt with the ortho doc I mentioned for July 29th. I honestly dont know if I will even be able to workout at all before then. Im looking forward to my DT massage coming up.

    Also, when you mentioned specifically angled xrays, which projections were you referring to cause Im actually a rad tech myself so I might be able to talk the Ortho doc into ordering the views you mentioned.

    Thanks again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post
    Thanks Scotty for the quick reply. You said pretty much what I expected to hear after reading as many of the other posts in this thread.

    On a good note, I made an appt with the ortho doc I mentioned for July 29th. I honestly dont know if I will even be able to workout at all before then. Im looking forward to my DT massage coming up.

    Also, when you mentioned specifically angled xrays, which projections were you referring to cause Im actually a rad tech myself so I might be able to talk the Ortho doc into ordering the views you mentioned.

    Thanks again.
    OK... kewl, then this should be fairly easy! of course you take your typical AP & Lateral views, but other views I will take depending on what I think the problem might be is 2 additional AP views, not sure if they are text-book views, but they can allow you to view the entire joint. Take one with the shoulder externally rotated and one internally rotated, I take both of these with your arm in the air like you are doing a bicep pose/flex except for obviously when your shoulder is internally rotated your arm is pointed down vs. externally rotated it is up. I mainly take these views to see the dynamics of the bones during internal and external rotation of the joint. Typically all it rules out is obvious bone on bone contact and fractures, but it is always best to rule out the simple/obvious things first. I mean you never know, as highly unlikely as it may be, you could have had an old fracture that healed incorrectly, added bone growth, bone spur, a good many things osseous-wise an injury can possibly cause. Once those are all ruled out with simple/cheap X-Rays, then the next obvious step is an MRI, which is probably going to be what you need to determine your injury. I'm only going with the statistical odds that it is most probably a soft tissue injury which you, a radiology tech know, that an MRI is the best most accurate way for determining and/or diagnosing those! Also, I'm at home right now, was just doing a quick check of the forum, so I don't have time to actually look them all up, but I'm sure you can Google them, there are a good number of muscle/orthopedic tests you can conduct to narrow down the soft-tissue possibilities of what area/muscles/ligaments are or could be involved with your injury. It is always best to have an educated guess of what is wrong before seeing a professional, they don't always like being told ahead of time what your problem is, but being you are a professional, they usually don't mind when it is from one professional to another! If you can't find the necessary muscle/orthopedic tests by the time I get to work tomorrow, just let me know and I'll look them up in my text and help you try and diagnose your problem to the best of my ability. And I'm both sure and hope that BEZOE and CELC5 will chime in, they are both very well educated professionals and they always seem to catch stuff I miss and/or add valuable insight, which is yet another reason why I always recommend a 2nd and sometimes a 3rd opinion when opting to get surgery or something serious! I'll touch base with you again tomorrow and see if we can't get this thing figured out together before your Doctor's appt!
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    Walking into my local supplement shop today and look who is sitting behind the counter . Yep Scotty Doc . Thanks for answering all of my questions about joint pain ,training and my age . The deload after this last run will be a good idea as you stated .dropping the weight and adding a few more reps will work . I knew the time was getting close to do a recovery and maintenance phase . Thanks for the solid advice and I will give these old bones a much needed reprieve from heavy sets .
    Thanks again
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMenard View Post
    Walking into my local supplement shop today and look who is sitting behind the counter . Yep Scotty Doc . Thanks for answering all of my questions about joint pain ,training and my age . The deload after this last run will be a good idea as you stated .dropping the weight and adding a few more reps will work . I knew the time was getting close to do a recovery and maintenance phase . Thanks for the solid advice and I will give these old bones a much needed reprieve from heavy sets .
    Thanks again
    Greg
    No problem Greg, was a pleasure meeting you as well, like I said you will find that all the guys and gals on this forum are both very nice and very informative, I have personally learned a lot on this forum, more than I ever imagined, wish they had this kind of stuff around when I was first getting started!
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    THanTha
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    OK... kewl, then this should be fairly easy! of course you take your typical AP & Lateral views, but other views I will take depending on what I think the problem might be is 2 additional AP views, not sure if they are text-book views, but they can allow you to view the entire joint. Take one with the shoulder externally rotated and one internally rotated, I take both of these with your arm in the air like you are doing a bicep pose/flex except for obviously when your shoulder is internally rotated your arm is pointed down vs. externally rotated it is up. I mainly take these views to see the dynamics of the bones during internal and external rotation of the joint. Typically all it rules out is obvious bone on bone contact and fractures, but it is always best to rule out the simple/obvious things first. I mean you never know, as highly unlikely as it may be, you could have had an old fracture that healed incorrectly, added bone growth, bone spur, a good many things osseous-wise an injury can possibly cause. Once those are all ruled out with simple/cheap X-Rays, then the next obvious step is an MRI, which is probably going to be what you need to determine your injury. I'm only going with the statistical odds that it is most probably a soft tissue injury which you, a radiology tech know, that an MRI is the best most accurate way for determining and/or diagnosing those! Also, I'm at home right now, was just doing a quick check of the forum, so I don't have time to actually look them all up, but I'm sure you can Google them, there are a good number of muscle/orthopedic tests you can conduct to narrow down the soft-tissue possibilities of what area/muscles/ligaments are or could be involved with your injury. It is always best to have an educated guess of what is wrong before seeing a professional, they don't always like being told ahead of time what your problem is, but being you are a professional, they usually don't mind when it is from one professional to another! If you can't find the necessary muscle/orthopedic tests by the time I get to work tomorrow, just let me know and I'll look them up in my text and help you try and diagnose your problem to the best of my ability. And I'm both sure and hope that BEZOE and CELC5 will chime in, they are both very well educated professionals and they always seem to catch stuff I miss and/or add valuable insight, which is yet another reason why I always recommend a 2nd and sometimes a 3rd opinion when opting to get surgery or something serious! I'll touch base with you again tomorrow and see if we can't get this thing figured out together before your Doctor's appt!
    Thanks Scotty,

    Sorry for not responding sooner, Ive been busy getting engaged over the past week or so But besides that, thanks for the advice. Ive actually had internal, grashey and Scapular Y views done in about the past 18 months with a completely negative report. I was thinking you'd advice like something along the lines of a bicipital grove/tangential projection or something. But the ones you mentioned make sense too.

    I actually had my DT massage on Tues and upon leaving my shoulder felt extremely loose and plenty warmed up if I would have wanted to lift. Today, two days later however, my shoulder hurts WAAAY worse than it did even post workout on Tuesday. I had a feeling this was gonna happen cause it happened to my father recently with his first massage. Any ideas??

    I am also seeing the orthopedist on the 29th, so hopefully he'll cut me a script for an MRI so I can get down to the bottom of this garbage. In the meantime however, I plan on starting my 2nd round of HST here very soon and I am unsure of whats gonna happen with this shoulder. On top of that, I REALLY need to drop some BF% if I plan on going on a honeymoon in the next 6-8 months. LOL...I actually just happened to find a package with 2 unopened bottles of H-drol at my door yesterday to help
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBreeze View Post
    THanTha

    Thanks Scotty,

    Sorry for not responding sooner, Ive been busy getting engaged over the past week or so But besides that, thanks for the advice. Ive actually had internal, grashey and Scapular Y views done in about the past 18 months with a completely negative report. I was thinking you'd advice like something along the lines of a bicipital grove/tangential projection or something. But the ones you mentioned make sense too.

    I actually had my DT massage on Tues and upon leaving my shoulder felt extremely loose and plenty warmed up if I would have wanted to lift. Today, two days later however, my shoulder hurts WAAAY worse than it did even post workout on Tuesday. I had a feeling this was gonna happen cause it happened to my father recently with his first massage. Any ideas??

    I am also seeing the orthopedist on the 29th, so hopefully he'll cut me a script for an MRI so I can get down to the bottom of this garbage. In the meantime however, I plan on starting my 2nd round of HST here very soon and I am unsure of whats gonna happen with this shoulder. On top of that, I REALLY need to drop some BF% if I plan on going on a honeymoon in the next 6-8 months. LOL...I actually just happened to find a package with 2 unopened bottles of H-drol at my door yesterday to help
    OK, so first let us start with your ROM, any limitations (passive & active & resisted)? I know one of those has to hurt, which one or ones and in which directions (ABduction, ADduction, flexion, extension, rotation)? Next, do you know what you did to injure it, was it a sudden or slow onset of pain? Finally, you have obviously tried to lift while injured, what movements/exercises irritate it the most (anterior, lateral, or posterior delt raises; incline, decline, or flat bench/chest press; shrugs; bicep curls; any kind of pulling movements of the back; etc.)? Be as specific as possible on all these questions and I will do my best to give you my best guess, which I usually don't give a guess of a diagnosis, especially online, but being that you are a professional and I know you know how to accomplish and properly describe all these tests I asked you to perform/explain, I will do my best! Also, I'm asking BEZOE and CELC5 to please respond their professional opinions as well once you post your answers/results!

    But for right now, all we have concluded/ruled out is that it is not a fracture, mis-alignment, or bony growth/protuberance that is causing your problem based off your claim of no problems detected on X-Ray, so it is safe to assume it is a soft-tissue injury, which are always the hardest to diagnose because it is not as black & white as an X-Ray. Ultimately, no matter what we figure out or think we have figured out, only an MRI can truly be conclusive and sometimes they aren't always 100% conclusive and just support or contradict the already suspected diagnosis.

    As far as the Deep Tissue massage making it feel better temporarily, but perpetually feeling worse, that is a tough one, I mean soft-tissue injuries are complicated bro, the exact same injury can be different for everyone. My personal best educated guess is that the massage actually helped push out the edema & swelling, but did nothing for the cause of the inflammation or maybe even irritated it more, but only got temporary relief because the swelling was pushed out and once the swelling came back it was even more irritated... again my best guess!
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    Scotty Doc,

    I just got done with my first visit to a chiropractor. I have a couple of questions. I have been having lower back pain that comes and goes. A lot of times it comes on while at the gym, usually during a squat or deadlift, and i hear a "crunch" like sound. Then I will be side lined for a couple of weeks until pain goes away.

    Other times the pain comes on out of the blue but is much more mild, but I still take time off from the gym to let it heal.

    Today he took xrays and said that there is some extreme muscle tightness in my back. He said the muscle shouldnt have even shown up on the xray but it is so tight that it did. He said the muscles are not allowing things to be in the normal position or something, and that is causing the pain and discomfort. He made a couple of adjustments and said that in the coming visits he will make adjustments that will take pressure off of the muscles so they can relax.

    I was wondering if massage therapy would be just as beneficial for this as the adjustments to relieve the muscle tightness? My insurance sucks and they only cover $1000/yr at the chiropractor. Just wondering if it sounds like something I could have done without the doctor to save some money?



    Thank you for your time!
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.Woods Giant View Post
    Scotty Doc,

    I just got done with my first visit to a chiropractor. I have a couple of questions. I have been having lower back pain that comes and goes. A lot of times it comes on while at the gym, usually during a squat or deadlift, and i hear a "crunch" like sound. Then I will be side lined for a couple of weeks until pain goes away.

    Other times the pain comes on out of the blue but is much more mild, but I still take time off from the gym to let it heal.

    Today he took xrays and said that there is some extreme muscle tightness in my back. He said the muscle shouldnt have even shown up on the xray but it is so tight that it did. He said the muscles are not allowing things to be in the normal position or something, and that is causing the pain and discomfort. He made a couple of adjustments and said that in the coming visits he will make adjustments that will take pressure off of the muscles so they can relax.

    I was wondering if massage therapy would be just as beneficial for this as the adjustments to relieve the muscle tightness? My insurance sucks and they only cover $1000/yr at the chiropractor. Just wondering if it sounds like something I could have done without the doctor to save some money?



    Thank you for your time!
    OK, I'm sure your Chiropractor meant well, but I don't care for his inaccurate explanation! OK, muscles are not supposed to show up in an X-Ray and if they do it is most likely because it was under-exposed and he didn't use enough KVP (power) to take the shot and only see the bones or in extremely rare cases the bones or other soft-tissue will show up white because it is calcifying. So what I'm trying to say is there is no Fugging way you can determine any soft tissue damage or inflammation via X-Ray. Now do you have inflammation in and around your LB, YES... and I can say that and be like 99% sure because if there is pain, there is usually swelling and inflammation, but not because I saw it on X-RAY.

    OK, sorry about the rant & rave, I just hate it when Chiropractors say the wrong thing, I mean and a lot of us wonder why we have a some-what tainted reputation, well it is because of $hit like that! Anyway, we are taught well and hopefully most of us remember what we were taught and correctly explain things, I would like to see how well his explanation would have went if you were an MD or a Radiology tech, LoL

    Anyway, at least he more accurate about his explanation of the treatments, the adjustments will help loosen up the area and take the pressure off the nerves allowing the muscles to loosen up.. see it doesn't matter what caused what in the sense that it doesn't matter if the misalignment of the bones caused the muscle to spasm and inflame or the spasming inflamed muscle caused the bone to misalign, either way you need to address both the soft tissue and hard-tissue. I typically put heat & E-Stim (electrical stimulation) on my clients before the adjustment, then ice & rolling table massage after the adjustment. I use the heat and E-stim to get the blood flowing to the area and get it warmed/loosend up so the adjustment is easier and more comfortable, then after the adjustment I used ice and the rolling massage table to continue to loosen up the area, but the ice decreases any inflammation wich decreases pain. That is how I treat my injuries, now there is more than one way to skin a cat, but I have been extremely successful.

    So I'm not saying your CHIRO is bad, I just disagree with his half a$$ explanation of the X-Rays, I don't think that is professional, the rest is fine and accurate! The bottom line is... if you are feeling better after his adjustments, then it is working and it doesn't happen overnight, you will feel better and better after each adjustment and that feeling better will last longer and longer after each adjustment, gotta think of it as a rehab process, putting the bones back in there normal position and training them to stay there, which brings me to the last thing I do, that last few adjustments, once they are out of pain for the most part, I give them exercises to do before the adjustment to warm/loosen & strengthen the area before the adjustment, that way it is more likely to hold and also give them area specific strengthening exercises to do regularly to help prevent whatever their problem is from happening again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Whenever possible, seeing a professional in person is always your best bet! If you have the resources, I would ask around and see if you can make an appointment with someone who specializes in knees and works with athletes, athletic specialists are usually the best because it is their job to advise the Athletes get them to or as close to 100% as possible, as their careers and sometimes millions of dollars are on the line! Trust me, word gets around as to who is best in your area, you could probably even Google it! I'm just saying I wouldn't just go to anyone, for example, if you came to me, I would probably only be able to identify what is injured and not give you the best advice on what to do/rehab etc. This is why I refer out, but some will just try anyway to make the $-Money-$, while not getting you any better than when you started because of their lack of knowledge in that area... (Blood-Sucking-A$$holes). So be careful, there are a lot of those out there!
    Just got out of the chiropractors office. She put pressure on the back side of my knee, bent my leg slightly, and had me flex my quad. That Sh!t HURT!!! She told me what it was but due to my lack of attention I can't remember, lol. She told me to do wall squats with my feet angled out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehealer View Post
    Just got out of the chiropractors office. She put pressure on the back side of my knee, bent my leg slightly, and had me flex my quad. That Sh!t HURT!!! She told me what it was but due to my lack of attention I can't remember, lol. She told me to do wall squats with my feet angled out.
    Lack of attention, I'm confused, give me a little more information???
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    My vote is for Breeze to quit doing upright rows as he mentioned in post #221. And to make the repurcussions of URR even worse, HST is rough on the joints and tendons. Just a hunch, but a lot of people don't warm up properly for each movement while running HST because there's such a laundry list of things to accomplish in the gym.

    For example, it takes me about 5 warm up sets of upright rows before I can use enough weight to actually tax my muscles without causing irritation/injury. In an HST routine, you don't have time for that. So maybe a bit more thought could go into choosing exercises that are "friendly" for your body. And to take it a step further, unless you are going to cut back significantly on the amount of weight you are going to use, I wouldn't recommend an aggressive HST run while already having a problematic shoulder.
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    I got one for ya. Maybe this has already been addressed in here...
    My left arm/shoulder get to hurting and even feeling a little numb some times. It's not always while lifting or taxing it but even when relaxing in bed. My shoulder tends to pop quite easily and my elbow feels like I need to hyper extend it to make it feel better (not that I would!) or possibly get it to pop. The numb feeling radiates from my shoulder through my bicep to my elbow then along my forearm to the tip of my fingers. Saw my family Dr. today for a D.O.T. physical and asked him about it. He said it sounded like it might be a bulged disc or just a misalignment of my neck. Thoughts?
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    Hoping for some insight on my shoulder issue I have been having. It's my left shoulder. It started the day after a chest workout day. My left shoulder is sore. I attempted resting it for a few weeks and massaging the best I could. It was getting batter but not fully 100%. I thought it was good enough to go yesterday so did a very light bench workout and bent over row routine. This morning it's back to the same pain level as when this started.

    The pain hits when I lift my arm to the front and also stretching across my body. I also feel it when doing a bench press motion. Lifting to the side does not really hurt nor does lifting in a reverse fly motion. There is no pain when doing rows. The pain takes away from pretty much any lifting.

    Now as for where the pain is. It's more in the back of the shoulder/arm. If I massage a certain muscle group near the shoulder blade it hurts but in a good way. I am almost wondering if it's my rotator cuff. If you need more information let me know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Lack of attention, I'm confused, give me a little more information???
    I hear what people are saying but I often don't listen to what they are saying. As soon as I left her office I could not remember what was strained. She said my knee was slightly out of alignment and that wall squats would help strengthen the weak side. I remember the wall squats because she demonstrated. I enjoyed watching that, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post
    I got one for ya. Maybe this has already been addressed in here...
    My left arm/shoulder get to hurting and even feeling a little numb some times. It's not always while lifting or taxing it but even when relaxing in bed. My shoulder tends to pop quite easily and my elbow feels like I need to hyper extend it to make it feel better (not that I would!) or possibly get it to pop. The numb feeling radiates from my shoulder through my bicep to my elbow then along my forearm to the tip of my fingers. Saw my family Dr. today for a D.O.T. physical and asked him about it. He said it sounded like it might be a bulged disc or just a misalignment of my neck. Thoughts?
    That is very well possible, but ya see, the mis-alignment or pressure on the nerve can be happening anywhere between your head and shoulder, without examining your myself, I cannot determine where! I mean try a few experiments by pressing along the bones on the side of your neck (C1, C2, C3, C4, C6, & C7) to see if by doing so it causes or intensifies the numbness, if no, then firmly press around your shoulder girdle to see if you can duplicate or intensify the numbness, that is call palpation and is exactly how I would detect it on you or someone else!

    I have had something similar happening to me where my pinky and half of my ring finger (pinky side) and my hypo-thenar pad on my right hand are numb and it is constant, was very hard for me to figure out where it is coming from, but I have it down to either somewhere in my forearm or wrist. When I visited one of my Chiro buddies, he adjusted both my wrist and elbow and it didn't really get better, nor did I even notice a temporary difference, yet when I bend both my elbow and extend my wrist it intensifies! I did have another Chiro buddy suggest that it is in my forearms and did get some very minor and very temporary relief when he used his activator to thump away on my forearm (wrist extensors), so I have concluded I need a deep tissue massage and there must be some serious muscle adhesions and/or scar tissue in there for some reason, has to be it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by crpav View Post
    Hoping for some insight on my shoulder issue I have been having. It's my left shoulder. It started the day after a chest workout day. My left shoulder is sore. I attempted resting it for a few weeks and massaging the best I could. It was getting batter but not fully 100%. I thought it was good enough to go yesterday so did a very light bench workout and bent over row routine. This morning it's back to the same pain level as when this started.

    The pain hits when I lift my arm to the front and also stretching across my body. I also feel it when doing a bench press motion. Lifting to the side does not really hurt nor does lifting in a reverse fly motion. There is no pain when doing rows. The pain takes away from pretty much any lifting.

    Now as for where the pain is. It's more in the back of the shoulder/arm. If I massage a certain muscle group near the shoulder blade it hurts but in a good way. I am almost wondering if it's my rotator cuff. If you need more information let me know.
    From what I read, it happened suddenly right? or has it progressively worsened? I would look for a CHIROPRACTOR in your area that has a massage therapist, if not, then just locate the Massage therapist, the reason why I suggest both is because the Chiropractor will take x-rays and if he/she is any good can probably determine exactly what is going on and then recommend the correct course of action. If only seeing the massage therapist (specialty in deep tissue), tell them exactly what you are telling me and he/she will most likely be able to figure out the cause as well, whether they perform a few muscle tests or through palpation during their massage, just remember, the MT has to be certified in deep tissue and if it doesn't hurt, they are not going deep enough!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehealer View Post
    I hear what people are saying but I often don't listen to what they are saying. As soon as I left her office I could not remember what was strained. She said my knee was slightly out of alignment and that wall squats would help strengthen the weak side. I remember the wall squats because she demonstrated. I enjoyed watching that, lol.
    LoL
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    Hey boss wondering if you can help with an issue I am having.

    I had a knee surgery 2 years ago(meniscus) , and ever since I get recurring knee injuries, like partial dislocation of the fibular head. The the other day my knee decided to go for the goal and it would not pop back in. Anyways I have been going to my chiropractor (no health insurance and knee surgeon charges about 500 for a visit). he fixed the extending issue, but now i cannot draw the knee back. It "catches" on the right side of my quad, and there is a massive, tendon? (as if the vasus lateralis moved). protruding to about the same height as my patella on its right side. The patella feels like it locks as well when i try to curl the leg.

    I am assuming i had a meniscal tear again (dont care) but the large mass which looks like a thick strand of quadricep muscle, is protruding and bugging me.

    Prior to this my knee resembled a normal knee, now it is massive.
    "No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." - Socrates
  

  
 

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