Shoulder Day

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    Shoulder Day


    I typically try to hit traps and shoulders on the same day. What I wanted to know is what you guys use to hit your shoulders? I'm trying to find a way to target the "back" side of my shoulder.... anyway to target this other than behind the neck press? Main reason I ask is I don't have a workout partner and I hate hitting people up for a spot.

    Typically I do

    Dumbell press in seated position
    Front Shrugs
    Side Shrugs
    dumbell front raises
    laterall dumbell raises
    I don't know what to call them but where you grip a bar and raise it to your chin

    I just feel like I'm not hitting my shoulders as much as I could be.

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    Upright rows.. Those are good. Since those and presses involve the front delts, I'd recommend dropping front raises from your routine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    Upright rows.. Those are good. Since those and presses involve the front delts, I'd recommend dropping front raises from your routine.
    You mean like from a seated position with the cable?

    If so I do that along with bent over rows (where I'm standing and bent over and am raising the weight to my chest) on back day. I guess they are getting worked just on my back day.
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    no he means drop it from your routine completely, dont do them at all. main reasoning would be because you seem to have a great deal of volume already for the front delts, and there really isnt a need for so many front delt exercises as they are indirectly hit with many other exercises, particularly on chest days.

    if you are looking to target your rear delts specifically i would recommend blasting them with a few exercises first, at the very beginning of your workout. i dont like asking people for spots either, so smith machine always serves as a good method for me to do behind the neck presses. another exercise that targets the rear delts really well are face pulls with a rope attached to a cable, you can youtube that to check out what they are. my personal favorite for rear delts are reverse flyes, either with dumbbells, cables or some type of flye machine. i always prefer a flye machine where you sit facing reversed because i feel like you can get the greatest concentration and contraction on the rear delt with these.
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    ^^agreed with the reverse flyes. You can even do them lying on an angled bench with DB's.
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    As far as the upright rows go, really widen your grip (putting the focus on the lateral heads) and raise the bar to your nipples and squeeze.

    Start your shoulder routine hitting rear delts first. DB reverse fly's and reverse pec-deck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    As far as the upright rows go, really widen your grip (putting the focus on the lateral heads) and raise the bar to your nipples and squeeze.
    yeppers. the closer your grip, the more traps you'll hit. a wide grip puts more and more pressure on your delts.
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    I've found performing wide db upright rows really brings the rear delts into play. They get really jacked up with blood.
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    I'm a fan of the reverse flys + upright rows whether db or bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    yeppers. the closer your grip, the more traps you'll hit. a wide grip puts more and more pressure on your delts.
    You got it backwards sun.
    The wider grip is more trap oriented.

    Reverse pec dec flyes and bent over flyes w/dumbbells.
    Can also do them lying flat on an incline bench w/chest pressed forward on bench of course, or lying chest pressed on a flat bench.
    Less weight.Control the movement.Pause and squeeze at the top.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8dook View Post
    You got it backwards sun.
    The wider grip is more trap oriented.
    .
    Actually you have it backwards. Maybe your not going wide enough.

    You could say that in any position the trap is involved, but the wider you go, the less emphasis on the traps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Actually you have it backwards. Maybe your not going wide enough.

    You could say that in any position the trap is involved, but the wider you go, the less emphasis on the traps.
    Wrong....research it.

    A wide grip barbell upright row builds the traps and not the shoulders.

    I can't post the link,because I DON'T HAVE 50 POST.I will when I REACH THE "MAGIC 50" plateau
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    OPENING ARGUMENT

    Defense Bodybuilders usually use a close grip (closer than shoulder width) on upright rows as it provides the longest range of motion.

    Prosecution Using a wide grip (wider than shoulder width) on upright rows places more emphasis on the middle delts.

    EVIDENCE

    * Using a close grip on barbell upright rows causes the arms to move in front of the body, thus the majority of stress is on the front delt heads.

    * Close-grip upright rows also allow for a fuller range of motion at the top of the exercise. The elbows go higher than shoulder height at the top, and this emphasizes the upper traps.

    * Doing upright rows with a wide grip allows the elbows to flair out to the sides, emphasizing the middle delt heads.

    VERDICT

    WIDE-GRIP UPRIGHT ROWS

    Most bodybuilders don't lack front delt mass due to the chest exercises (especially incline presses) they typically do in addition to shoulder training. And if you're in need of upper-trap mass, you're better off using a variety of shrugs and only doing close-grip upright rows on occasion after shrugs. The middle deltoid heads provide your shoulders with most of their mass, width and roundness. Since no one can be too wide, your best bet is to go with wide-grip upright rows.

    SENTENCING

    Consider using wide-grip upright rows in your delt workouts following shoulder presses and before lateral raises. Use close-grip upright rows after shrugs to work the upper traps and front delts, if those areas are lacking.

    --Jim Stoppani, PhD


    sourced from: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n32404514/
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    A safer variation of the upright rowing movement utilizes a wide grip, where the upper and lower arm form a ninety degree angle at the top of the movement. The bar is pulled smoothly to the mid torso or (if the trainee is flexible) to the lower pectoral line. In this variation, the bar is held in close to the body. The posterior and lateral deltoids are activated, as well as the trapezius and many of the mid back muscles. The shoulder doesn't rotate to an extreme position and is less likely to develop impingement syndrome.
    Most people do the close grip upright row thinking they are performing a pure deltoid exercise. This is erroneous, as the trapezius takes over and finishes the movement once the bar reaches mid torso. One need pull no further than the lower pectoral line if trying to emphasize the deltoids. Wicked Willie


    sourced from: http://www.davedraper.com/pmwiki/pmw...ki/UprightRows
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    ADVANTAGE: Wide-Grip Upright Row
    Both versions target the delts, but the wide-grip version reigns supreme for several reasons when you want to hit the middle delts. First, during the close-grip version your elbows are forced to go in front of your body to a greater degree, automatically shifting more emphasis to the front heads, whereas in the wide-grip upright row your elbows are pointed more out to your sides, allowing the middle heads greater involvement. (Think of the angle of your elbows during a lateral raise.) Second, the narrow-grip version places more stress on the smaller, delicate muscles of the rotator cuff as you try to raise your elbows above your hands. And third, because the close-grip version focuses on the traps and forearms, the workload becomes spread around other muscle groups; however, thatís not the case with the wide grip. Do the wide-grip row first or second in your shoulder workout, going moderately heavy for 10Ė12 reps. As you increase the weight, donít hesitate to use pulling straps.

    sourced from: http://www.emusclemag.com/content.php?cat=3&id=805
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8dook View Post
    Wrong....research it.

    A wide grip barbell upright row builds the traps and not the shoulders.

    I can't post the link,because I DON'T HAVE 50 POST.I will when I REACH THE "MAGIC 50" plateau
    okie dokie then, ask and you shall receive. research has been posted, and the verdict is in. CLOSE GRIP PUTS MORE EMPHASIS ON THE TRAPS, WIDE GRIP PUTS MORE EMPHASIS ON THE DELTS.

    i can post more articles if you'd like, i found an endless number of them...
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    I don't beat DEAD horses "little guy."As I previously stated.I'll post EVIDENCE to the contrary when my post count is sufficient...Have a nice weekend!
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    LMAO......
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    if you claim not to be a dead horse beater then why would you continue to vow to post this information.... a little contradicting dont you think?
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    Wow...Good read until all the horse beating started.lol
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    I recently incorporated lying-low pulley cable-lateral raise's. Odd at first, but lets see what happens.
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    Wider the more shoulders, just do the movement you can feel it, doesn't take a rocket scientist.....

    As for shoulders and traps, I do on the same day too... this is my routine:

    BB Upright rows
    Cable Shrugs
    Military Press
    Lat Raise
    incline Rev Flies ( i feel these work the rear delt more than just bending over)
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    I tried my upright rows with a super wide grip today and I was forced to drop almost 30lbs off my normal weight which would definitely lead me to believe its more delt oriented than trap
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I tried my upright rows with a super wide grip today and I was forced to drop almost 30lbs off my normal weight which would definitely lead me to believe its more delt oriented than trap
    And how do your shoulders feel today?
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    front delts are sore, but I also did incline presses. traps aren't sore but they aren't always either (although sometimes are)
    This space for rent

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    Current shoulder + upper back routine:

    BB Standing Overhead Press x 5
    BB Wide-Grip Upright Row x 4
    DB Side Lateral Raise x 4
    BB Rear-Delt Rows x 4
    DB Bent Reverse Fly x 4
    BB Shrug x 5
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    http://www.massiveshoulders.com/delt...pright-row.htm



    Wide grip barbell Upright rows
    If You Want Big Strong Shoulder Muscles-With All Three Deltoid Heads Completely Developed To Perfection….Plus Enough Shoulder Width And Delts Size To Give You That Sought After V-Shape Tapered Look (That Draws Women Eyes Onto You Like A Magnet Attracting Iron Filings) Click This Link! Discover Which Shoulder Exercises Work Best…For FREE


    A wide grip barbell upright row builds the traps and not the shoulders!

    Another exercise for traps is wide grip barbell upright rows. You can use them for training shoulder variety sometimes, but it is best to stick with shrugs since upright rows don't stimulate as much muscle in the traps area as shrugs do! Furthermore in the wide grip upright row the attention of the deltoid exercise tends to be divided between the traps and shoulders. These can also be done on smith machines or with cables.

    Blast your deltoids and get them to grow like wild weeds on super potent fertilizer , amaze your friends as your deltoids get bigger, stronger and thicker.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8dook View Post
    http://www.massiveshoulders.com/delt...pright-row.htm
    Click This Link! Discover Which Shoulder Exercises Work Best…For FREE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Brown View Post
    If you are looking to target your rear delts specifically i would recommend blasting them with a few exercises first, at the very beginning of your workout.
    I do think it's important to train the rear delts, I wouldn't recommend training them at the very beginning of your shoulder workout since you'd be losing intensity on the rest of your exercises. It would be like starting a chest routine with flyes, or a back routine with machine pullovers, but probably even less efficient. This is my opinion though, so of course do whatever you think would suit your training best. If you get good results by doing this, by all means keep doing it. I've just found that in my own experiences, it's usually best to start your routine (after warmups) with your heavier, compound lifts, then add in some isolation work afterward. The point being to focus the bulk of your efforts into the lifts that will give you the most response. As far as some good exercises to start your shoulder routine with: military press, upright rows, clean and press, Arnold presses and DB shoulder presses. There are others, but those are some of the most popular ones. You can pretty much bet that whatever exercises you use, you're going to be hitting your front deltoids a lot, so it's fun to try and figure out routines that will also hit the side and rear heads to a greater degree as well. Of course no one head of the deltoid works in complete isolation, but by choosing the right exercises you can put more emphasis on each head of the deltoids. If you're wanting to target your traps on shoulders day, why not do some upright rows since they work the front deltoids and traps to a great degree. Then if you wanted to add intensity to your trap workout, you could add in some shrugs. A really intense trap workout might be a superset of upright rows followed by shrugs. So what I'm trying to get at is to think about which muscles you want to do the most work and craft your routine around that idea. By doing this you'll have a much easier time at keeping your physique balanced and in proportion. Keep in mind that my philosophies are geared towards creating aesthetic, balanced physiques, rather than just sheer mass and brute strength.

    Something I really like doing for shoulders is a superset of Arnold presses followed by rear delt lateral raises. Or I suppose you could swap rear laterals for any other rear delt exercise. Since Arnold presses really hit the side and front delts hard, it's always fun to add in a rear delt exercise right afterward. In general, I'm fond of doing rear delt work as part of a superset after a compound lift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    Current shoulder + upper back routine:

    BB Standing Overhead Press x 5
    BB Wide-Grip Upright Row x 4
    DB Side Lateral Raise x 4
    BB Rear-Delt Rows x 4
    DB Bent Reverse Fly x 4
    BB Shrug x 5
    That's quite a heft shoulder routine! Others keep in mind that this guy is a larger framed guy who can probably handle this volume. Someone with my build would find a routine like this to be too much and counter productive. That's 26 total sets for shoulders. I do just fine with no more than 12-14.

    The key is to, over time, build the experience you need to craft a routine that adequately suits your needs on a personal level. In other works, find what works for you. It takes time and effort, but once you find it, it makes things that much easier and efficient.
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    Hero, I agree for the most part in your suggestion of starting with compound lifts first.

    But, this assumes that the physique is already balanced. If a person has severely lacking rear delts compared to front delts, IMO they should concentrate most of their efforts on bringing the rear delts up. And, by starting with, as you stated - the most productive lifts, then you will most likely encourage the imbalance.

    But, generally speaking, I do agree w/ starting with heavier compound lifts and moving to isolation lifts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    That's quite a heft shoulder routine! Others keep in mind that this guy is a larger framed guy who can probably handle this volume. Someone with my build would find a routine like this to be too much and counter productive. That's 26 total sets for shoulders. I do just fine with no more than 12-14.

    The key is to, over time, build the experience you need to craft a routine that adequately suits your needs on a personal level. In other works, find what works for you. It takes time and effort, but once you find it, it makes things that much easier and efficient.
    LOL Yeah. It seems like a lot. But, I tend to differentiate the heads as individual muscles to target (though they are used in unison in some lifts). So, I break it down to sets per front delt, sets per side delt, sets per rear delt.

    Definitely adjust training to suit individual needs.

    Also, I'm currently taking boldione, so recovery is enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    Hero, I agree for the most part in your suggestion of starting with compound lifts first.

    But, this assumes that the physique is already balanced. If a person has severely lacking rear delts compared to front delts, IMO they should concentrate most of their efforts on bringing the rear delts up. And, by starting with, as you stated - the most productive lifts, then you will most likely encourage the imbalance.

    But, generally speaking, I do agree w/ starting with heavier compound lifts and moving to isolation lifts.
    I would imagine it would be very difficult to bring up a lagging body part such as rear delts if your overall mass wasn't sufficient to begin with. It's much easier to create some overall mass, then try to bring up smaller, lagging areas. This is why the big compound lifts are always recommended to beginners; so that they can build a foundation of mass. If your rear delts were that far behind the rest of your shoulders, I'd just recommend adding more work for the rear delts. For example, keep your total working sets the same number but just rework it so that you're putting more of an emphasis on the rear delts. That's my two cents anyway.

    How's that boldione working out for you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Type O Hero View Post
    I would imagine it would be very difficult to bring up a lagging body part such as rear delts if your overall mass wasn't sufficient to begin with. It's much easier to create some overall mass, then try to bring up smaller, lagging areas. This is why the big compound lifts are always recommended to beginners; so that they can build a foundation of mass. If your rear delts were that far behind the rest of your shoulders, I'd just recommend adding more work for the rear delts. For example, keep your total working sets the same number but just rework it so that you're putting more of an emphasis on the rear delts. That's my two cents anyway.

    How's that boldione working out for you?
    From a beginner's standpoint, I don't recommend ANY isolation lifts. I'm speaking from the standpoint of already have a decent enough muscular base that you are now concerned with lagging areas. I suppose we both agree that putting emphasis on the lagging area is a must if you want to bring it up to par... it's just there are various ways of going about it.

    YGPM in re: boldione.
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    Reverse db flyes and reverse peck deck
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