Shoulder Doctor Needed - What did I just do to alleviate my pain? - AnabolicMinds.com

Shoulder Doctor Needed - What did I just do to alleviate my pain?

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    Question Shoulder Doctor Needed - What did I just do to alleviate my pain?


    I need impingement surgery on both sides. Usually for two or three days after training, I experience pain lifting my arms above my head. Even getting a glass out of an overhead cabinet is painful.

    Out of the blue, I decided to stretch my shoulders in a way I don't normally do.

    1. I took my right hand and placed it on my left shoulder (it bearly reaches).
    2. I took the back of my left hand and placed it on my right elbow.
    3. I used the back of my left hand to push my right arm as far left as I could get it - simultaneously, I used the fingers of my right hand to pull the same arm as far left as I could.

    After a nice stretch doing this for both shoulders, I can raise my hands over-head with NO pain. This is amazing! What did I just do? And what might this tell me about my shoulder injuries?

    Thanks in advance...

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    I think the pain is coming back ever so slightly. And to be honest, it didn't feel absolutely 100% better anyway - but it was really close to perfect. NO pain - but I could feel it still wasn't perfect. At any rate, it seems I know how to alleviate the painful issue(s) I've got here. Even temporary relief is fine.. I'll report back tomorrow how things are going. Still, I'm very interested in what anyone might think about all of this.

    Thanks again...
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    If you feel that much pain reduction after a light stretch, perhaps PT and OMT would be a more viable option than surgery.

    You just stretched your posterior capsule.
    It indicates posterior capsule tightness.
    Keep doing that stretch.
    Google some more stretches for internal rotators and pecs and add them,
    you tube has a lot for example: YouTube - Shoulder Rotator Cuff muscle stretch .
    Start foam rolling/ tennis balling.
    Go nice and easy.
    Stop doing any over head movement, stop benching, etc and just do push ups for now.

    And consult a physician before you do anything. I am just some guy on an anonymous internet forum.
    Last edited by bulls**t; 02-01-2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason: clarity
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    Thank you. What's PT and OMT? My shoulders still feel better today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance View Post
    Thank you. What's PT and OMT? My shoulders still feel better today.

    That's great. You should feel like a million bucks in a few weeks.
    PT is physical therapy.
    OMT is osteopathic manipulative treatment http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_omt .
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    It's sounds more to me like you "mobilized" your joint capsule. Not that there's anything wrong with the rotator cuff stretch that was posted. It's just doesn't sound like it has anything to do with your problem.

    The joint mobilization is something that any physical therapist can do for you. It'd be a bit overzealous to get cut without at least trying PT for a few weeks.
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    Have you been doing upright rows? Anything like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulls**t View Post
    If you feel that much pain reduction after a light stretch, perhaps PT and OMT would be a more viable option than surgery.
    I agree overall, but a massage therapist, a chiropractor or yoga instructor would also be more viable than surgery - especially since almost all instances of impingement are in fact soft-tissue matters (and therefor not really amenable to surgery. A PT is not likely to be of much use, frankly, just because of the hoops you'll have to go thru.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulls**t View Post
    Keep doing that stretch.
    Google some more stretches for internal rotators and pecs and add them...
    Those are the EXTERNAL rotators he's stretching - along w/ post. delt, rhomoids, serratus, teres and some latissimus.

    That said, it's a good stretch you're doing, OP - but don't over-do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulls**t View Post
    Start foam rolling/ tennis balling.
    Go nice and easy.
    Good advice. I prefer a racquetball to a tennis ball, however - not as large & not as hard, so it opens up the tissues without digging in too deep on tender spasmy bits.
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls**t View Post
    Stop doing any over head movement, stop benching, etc and just do push ups for now.
    Agree on the overhead movements: you ideally want the pain to be GONE with NO recurrence for 7-10 days before even trying to lift anything above your sternum.. And if a test lift bring the pain back:
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls**t View Post
    [C]onsult a physician before you do anything
    A experienced sports doc is what you want in that case, but remember: functional issues like this are largely in medicine's blind spot. So don't let them talk you into surgury. Cutting things off should only be a last-straw option.
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    See your Dr. !
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    A PT is not likely to be of much use, frankly, just because of the hoops you'll have to go thru.
    such as?
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    For starters, PTs work on a prescription basis - their clients are sent to them by MDs, which means being seen first by an MD. Soft-tissue injuries and musculoskeletal problems generally are, as I said before, not well-fitted into an MD's world; with respect to MDs, I'm not convinced this is the best way to get care - or the way to get the best care - unless you have access to, and can afford, a top-rank sports-medicine facility.

    However, this issue is the sort of thing a good coach or trainer should be able to help with - not the kind of complex, tricky injury SportMed is intended for.
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    Unless one of these guys are your Dr. go see him if your insurance allows you open access do a little research on surgeons and the first thing the surgeon will want to do is take MRI possibly X-RAY then you will know the extent of your injury. Anything else is just guessing!
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    BW, you just explained the process. I don't see your arguement? No, the physician is not the musculoskeletal expert. But the physical therapist most certainly is.

    A yoga instructor and massage therapist are absolutely inappropriate suggestions. They are educated to treat the general population, NOT the injured population.

    The suggestion for a "sports doctor" is fine. However, a sports doc is going to send the OP to a PT, just like his family doc would.

    The OP accidently mobilized his joint. He's on the right track and got pain relief. From the information presented thus far, there's no reason not to persue contuation of skilled mobilization for a few sessions after getting a quick script from his family doc.
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    PTs are constrained by the doctor's prescription, so it makes the most sense to get the best & most qualified prescription. This would involve the greatest expense and the most delayed treatment under general circumstances. Both the delayed treatment and the increased cost combine with his 'self-inflicted' improvement support

    The fact that a simple stretch relieved Zero's pain argues *against* escalating things into a pseudo-medical 'condition'. Disparage yoga and massage if you will, but that does not argue in support of medical intervention. I have been a massage therapist for more than 40 years, and I have seen relief of such conditions non-medically in many occasions; I have facilitated such relief in others on many occasions; I have improved my own shoulder-impingement pain through similar means. My experience as sufferer and practitioner argue against such medicalization UNLESS INDICATED. Zero's initial post contains no such indication. To the contrary, it indicates that his pain is a consequence of a minor functional and mechanical condition; it may be entirely appropriate for him to consider surgery, but surgery is and should be a last-resort option, and a search for functional improvements is an entirely appropriate first-step in treatment.

    That said: I do not suggest massage or yoga as a specific 'treatment' for this specific pain. I suggest yoga and massage as focused, well-understood and completely respectable approaches to the kind of soft-tissue condition he describes, as they are both successful and satisfactory ways of mobilizing joints and interrupting the localized muscular hypertension that accounts for such pains in the majority of cases.

    If he obtains no lasting improvement as a result of such approaches, he should certainly escalate his search for effective care, as I said in my earlier remarks.

    Clearly you reject non-medical avenues, and fine for you. Have fun with that.
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    It's possible that you don't understand the difference between soft tissue mobilization and joint mobilization. Joint mobilizations are outside the scope of a massage therapist's scope of practice.

    "Muscular hypertension" ... Are you kidding me? LMFAO

    I have shown no disrespect for non-medical avenues. However, it's clear that you're giving unqualified advice, which I don't see how anyone could respect.
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    Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?

    I have to give you props: typically, I'm a hard person to insult, and even harder to anger, but you've managed both.

    You want to diss me, fine. You want to attack my professional skills, knowledge and experience? I strongly suggest you have some skills of you own for backup.

    I trained at a reputable, nationally-known school and was hired to teach at said school by the founder - before I even graduated; I am nationally certified, trained in a variety of post-grad modalities (including NMR and MAHA connective-tissue), and soon to be licensed to practice in my state (coming out of retirement), and command a premium rate due to my skill and experience. I've written books, taught master classes, originated more than a dozen unique, effective, and well-regarded techniques that are highly valued by the therapists that use them. When I decided to GO to massage school 20 years ago, I'd already been studying and performing therapeutic massage for more than 20 years without charge.

    And you?
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    Thanks for the resume. I never attacked your credentials, so you must have some personal problem with feeling the need to list them. My issue is only that you haven't done much to support your arguements. You suggest non specific, generic treatments that do not correlate with the OP's initial post.

    The only thing I can see in your last post is that you have hang ups about the limitations and scope of practice in your field. I guess that's why you're insulted and angry and feel the need to defend your last 20 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    It's sounds more to me like you "mobilized" your joint capsule. Not that there's anything wrong with the rotator cuff stretch that was posted. It's just doesn't sound like it has anything to do with your problem.
    Agreed. I was just making a few assumptions based on what I've read in some of his previous posts and seen in the weight room.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    Those are the EXTERNAL rotators he's stretching - along w/ post. delt, rhomoids, serratus, teres and some latissimus.
    .
    You are correct sir.
    Same reasoning as I posted above, I was making a few (hopefully) educated guesses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    Thanks for the resume. I never attacked your credentials, so you must have some personal problem with feeling the need to list them. My issue is only that you haven't done much to support your arguements. You suggest non specific, generic treatments that do not correlate with the OP's initial post.

    The only thing I can see in your last post is that you have hang ups about the limitations and scope of practice in your field. I guess that's why you're insulted and angry and feel the need to defend your last 20 years.
    well, here I am, back from a very enjoyable Valentine's weekend, and eager to see your contribution to the thread.

    What a shame: you obviously don't have a conversation to make.. I guess the trolling bell went off and this thread was closest, eh?

    Well, keep it to yourself in the future: I refuse to play piņata to your self-gratification. STFD & STFU.
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    I reread the entire thread to be sure that I wasn't out of line or typed something that could have been misinterpretted. I stand by my posts 100%. I'm sure that once you reread the thread, you'll be embarrassed by the way you've handled things.

    You're responding with a red rep retaliation and troll accusations simply because someone is disagreeing with you and challenging you to support your shaky suggestions.

    Not to rub salt into your wounded ego, but I find it ironic that you red repped a post that I got several green reps for.

    I'm done with this thread. It's not really getting anywhere and I hope the OP has his issue resolved by now anyhow.
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    we're the same man..this thread helps alot..
  

  
 

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