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low volume, high frequency

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    low volume, high frequency


    does anybody train like this? ive been looking into it, and the people that do train like it seem to swear by it. my plan is as follows:

    day 1: chest, back, shoulders, abs (3 sets per muscle group)
    day 2: legs, calves arms (2 sets compound leg lifts, and 2 sets isolation per quad and hamstring, and 3 sets bis, tris and forearms)

    i go through this consistently, taking rest days only when i feel them needed. ive read of people doing, and personally know some who do this and everybody seems to make phenomenal gains doing so. what are your opinions of this style?

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    DC Training is loosely based on this principle. You should look into...

    Joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    does anybody train like this? ive been looking into it, and the people that do train like it seem to swear by it. my plan is as follows:

    day 1: chest, back, shoulders, abs (3 sets per muscle group)
    day 2: legs, calves arms (2 sets compound leg lifts, and 2 sets isolation per quad and hamstring, and 3 sets bis, tris and forearms)

    i go through this consistently, taking rest days only when i feel them needed. ive read of people doing, and personally know some who do this and everybody seems to make phenomenal gains doing so. what are your opinions of this style?
    Doesn't look low volume. What frequency are we talking?
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    by low volume i mean for chest i will do say, 1 set of incline dumbell press, 1 set of cable flys and 1 set of floor press and that is it. so between 3-5 total sets per muscle group. the frequency would be every other day. each of the same workout though will vary in weight/ reps. today for instance, i plan on doing reps in the 5-7 range, but in 2 days when i train the same muscle groups again i will do in the 10-15 rep range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    by low volume i mean for chest i will do say, 1 set of incline dumbell press, 1 set of cable flys and 1 set of floor press and that is it. so between 3-5 total sets per muscle group. the frequency would be every other day. each of the same workout though will vary in weight/ reps. today for instance, i plan on doing reps in the 5-7 range, but in 2 days when i train the same muscle groups again i will do in the 10-15 rep range.
    So you repeat workout 1 and 2 every other day so you have no day off to recover? When do you recover and grow. That isn't going to happen when your in the gym.
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    i used to train in high frequency like this, with more volume though, and i made much better gains that i did at the current moment when i give each muscle a weeks rest before i train it again. this is a trial and error kind of sport. i try this out for a few weeks. if it works, i will stick to it and keep it going, if not i will trash it and go back to the standard splits with longer rest periods. how will i know of this works if i dont try it? i wont, worst case scenario is that I end the program being at the same place i am now. im young still and i have quite a bit of time to grow in my lifetime, so i figure i might as well.
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    and i do take occasional off days to recover if i feel that i need one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    and i do take occasional off days to recover if i feel that i need one.
    Look at your body's recovery ability as a full tank of gas and weight lifting uses that gas. Just like you need to refuel your car every so often your body's recovery ability needs to be refueled.

    :squat:
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    i understand this. this is just experimental. if after a week or so of doing it this way, i feel i am not making progress, or going backwards even, i will add more rest days. you never know if something works until you try it, and that is exactly what im going to do.
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    yeah, throw in some/more rest days. Change the intensity levels. You may just want to choose one set of exercises a day where you go balls to the walls.
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    I used to train exactly like that, gains for while then abrupt plateau and exhaustion, it didnt work for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    i understand this. this is just experimental. if after a week or so of doing it this way, i feel i am not making progress, or going backwards even, i will add more rest days. you never know if something works until you try it, and that is exactly what im going to do.
    You don't? You mean if I have 10 gallons of gas I could give 5 away and still check and expect to have the original 10 gallons because I don't know until I try? Interesting concept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    I used to train exactly like that, gains for while then abrupt plateau and exhaustion, it didnt work for me.

    Same. Hard to judge when you're overtraining. Good for a cut though. Superset from upper to lower body movements and training like this really gets the heartrate up. It's probably really good on cycle though.
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    I had been doing full-body workouts 3x per week (which falls under high frequency, low volume). I've made my best gains and physically and mentally felt the best during that time.

    I've switched up to a push/pull routine where I hit everything 2x per week. We'll see how that goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSquat View Post
    You don't? You mean if I have 10 gallons of gas I could give 5 away and still check and expect to have the original 10 gallons because I don't know until I try? Interesting concept.
    I think he means that his body isnt exactly like a cars gas tank. For one, it doesnt have a gauge to read. So I think he wants to experiment with how a lower volume program depletes his reserves. Nothing wrong with doing your own experimenting. You dont always have to do what is thought to be "the right way" by the "experts".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Same. Hard to judge when you're overtraining. Good for a cut though. Superset from upper to lower body movements and training like this really gets the heartrate up. It's probably really good on cycle though.
    speaking of on cycle..im starting test and masteron in a couple of weeks.... my main reason for wanting to train like this, though, is that i have typically made my best gains training very frequently. i have recently been doing a 5 day split, and my gains are much slower than when i was doing a 3 day. if i come out of this, with no change in size, i can almost guarantee i will have an increase in strength at least, based on how my bodies history with high frequency programs has been. and as far as the argument that my body grows at home, not in the gym, i agree with this. my workouts take at most 45 minutes, and i get 8-10 hours of sleep each night. i am not trying to break so much muscle fiber down to where i expect to get a certain amount of growth over the week i let the muscle rest, as you would with a high volume low frequency program. the premise behind this is to cause little damage to the muscle (hence the 3 sets total per muscle group) and have small growth in muscle more frequently.
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    Never said he couldn't do whatever he pleases. There is no scientific backing (this is the exercise science forum) to believe that exercise does not tap into the body's recovery potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick60 View Post
    I think he means that his body isnt exactly like a cars gas tank. For one, it doesnt have a gauge to read. So I think he wants to experiment with how a lower volume program depletes his reserves. Nothing wrong with doing your own experimenting. You dont always have to do what is thought to be "the right way" by the "experts".
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    I probably should have put this in the training forum, but saw this one first, so whatever. you seem to be absolutely against this kind of training program, and thats fine. i would rather try it, and have it fail then to not try it and be left wondering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    i would rather try it, and have it fail then to not try it and be left wondering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    I probably should have put this in the training forum, but saw this one first, so whatever. you seem to be absolutely against this kind of training program, and thats fine. i would rather try it, and have it fail then to not try it and be left wondering.
    Ok, just answer one question. Why reinvent the wheel? If you agree that growth does not occur in the gym (which you did), are you doing this program with no rest days to maintain?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    does anybody train like this? ive been looking into it, and the people that do train like it seem to swear by it. my plan is as follows:

    day 1: chest, back, shoulders, abs (3 sets per muscle group)
    day 2: legs, calves arms (2 sets compound leg lifts, and 2 sets isolation per quad and hamstring, and 3 sets bis, tris and forearms)

    i go through this consistently, taking rest days only when i feel them needed. ive read of people doing, and personally know some who do this and everybody seems to make phenomenal gains doing so. what are your opinions of this style?

    Is this what your looking for mrsqaut.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    Is this what your looking for mrsqaut.
    No. that is the statement that led me to ask. Everybody needs rest days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSquat View Post
    Ok, just answer one question. Why reinvent the wheel? If you agree that growth does not occur in the gym (which you did), are you doing this program with no rest days to maintain?
    Not necessarily true. If you aren't working certain muscles (say lower body on an upper body workout day), they are getting rest/recovery. IMO, 6 days is too much recovery for any given muscle group (talking 1x per weak BB split).

    It really comes down to a different type of stimulation. Either beat the sh!t out of your pecs in one day/workout, or spread the stimulation throughout the week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSquat View Post
    No. that is the statement that led me to ask. Everybody needs rest days.
    My point was that he has stated he would do so. you seem to think otherwise? I dont see a problem here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    Not necessarily true. If you aren't working certain muscles (say lower body on an upper body workout day), they are getting rest/recovery. IMO, 6 days is too much recovery for any given muscle group (talking 1x per weak BB split).

    It really comes down to a different type of stimulation. Either beat the sh!t out of your pecs in one day/workout, or spread the stimulation throughout the week.
    If the recovery ability of the body takes a hit, it is systemic not isolated. The muscles are (as far as upper and lower) but the CNS isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    My point was that he has stated he would do so. you seem to think otherwise? I dont see a problem here.
    He said he will IF HE FEELS LIKE HE NEEDS THEM. Regardless of feeling a need for them the body needs them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSquat View Post
    If the recovery ability of the body takes a hit, it is systemic not isolated. The muscles are (as far as upper and lower) but the CNS isn't.
    Then what do you say to those who train 5x per week?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSquat View Post
    If the recovery ability of the body takes a hit, it is systemic not isolated. The muscles are (as far as upper and lower) but the CNS isn't.
    I am not taxing my cns hard with every workout though. as I stated before, I vary the workouts with heavy and light days. many powerlifters and olympic lifters train with frequencies like this, sometime even greater with much longer workout durations, so are they all doomed to never grow or progress because their training isnt based off of weider principles?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    Then what do you say to those who train 5x per week?
    Do they take rest days on the weekend?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    I am not taxing my cns hard with every workout though. as I stated before, I vary the workouts with heavy and light days. many powerlifters and olympic lifters train with frequencies like this, sometime even greater with much longer workout durations, so are they all doomed to never grow or progress because their training isnt based off of weider principles?
    Taxing the CNS is taxing PERIOD. Just like you can't be a little pregnant you can't tax a little of your CNS. Now you can train anyway you please but to insult my intelligence and claim I am espousing Weider principles when I am speaking from a medical standpoint makes me wonder just exactly why I am wasting my time responding to you.
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    i may have come off as harsh in attacking your intelligence, which is not what i meant to do, but your making claims as if you know exactly how i will respond to this before it even happens. you may have interpreted this in that i will be going possibly 2 weeks straight without taking any rest days, but this is not the case. some weeks i may only work out 4 days, others i may workout 6-7. i do realize i need rest, and i am not going to disregard that. i will take a day off if i have been going consistent, even if i feel great. this is purely experimental, and when i finish this program i plan on taking a week or 2 off, in case i did tax my cns more than i expected. you seem to have a one sided opinion, without a willingness to experiment, so i dont know why i try to convince you that this could be a potentially good way to train, so i will just leave it at that. the way i look at it is that the worst case scenario is that i dont progress or get a bit weaker. big deal, i can regain what i lost so i am open to trying new things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSquat View Post
    Taxing the CNS is taxing PERIOD. Just like you can't be a little pregnant you can't tax a little of your CNS. Now you can train anyway you please but to insult my intelligence and claim I am espousing Weider principles when I am speaking from a medical standpoint makes me wonder just exactly why I am wasting my time responding to you.

    So, we all know what you wouldn't do. Why not tell us what you would do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay View Post
    So, we all know what you wouldn't do. Why not tell us what you would do?
    You really can't figure out that I would take rest days? Did I somehow miss saying that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticism View Post
    i may have come off as harsh in attacking your intelligence, which is not what i meant to do, but your making claims as if you know exactly how i will respond to this before it even happens.
    nope. I am stating nothing about you. I am however stating a medical fact about the body. Nothing personal about it on my end.
    you may have interpreted this in that i will be going possibly 2 weeks straight without taking any rest days, but this is not the case.
    No interpretation on my part. That is why I asked you about days off and your response was "if I feel the need"
    . i will take a day off if i have been going consistent, even if i feel great.
    Which is a far cry from what you originally claimed as being only if you feel like you need one.
    you seem to have a one sided opinion, without a willingness to experiment,
    Truth be told, when medical science has shown for the last umpteen years that a body needs rest after stress, there is no need to experiment. OTOH, if you don't believe medical science than I can understand experiment but as it is, medical science is clear and anything else is just an experiment in futility.
    i can regain what i lost.
    How does one regain lost time?
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    IMO cns shock is what prompts muscle to grow, the crux of the matter is controlling the amount of shock/stimulus and adapting that to ones physiology for maximum gains and maintenence, whether on or not.
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    I'll pose the question - which exhausts the CNS, frequency or volume?

    I can do 1 set for every body part 7 days of the week or 7 sets for every body part 1 day a week. Which is going to exhaust the CNS.

    Consider for a moment that CNS exhaustion through volume overload (7 sets 1 day a week) may require greater periods for recovery but progressive overload through frequency (1 set 7 days a week) may promote adaptation and shorten recovery time.

    IMPE low volume, high frequency training done with the proper progressive overload is just as effective and does not exhaust my CNS like high volume, low frequency.

    Just some food for thought
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    IMO cns shock is what prompts muscle to grow, the crux of the matter is controlling the amount of shock/stimulus and adapting that to ones physiology for maximum gains and maintenence, whether on or not.
    Muscle growth is stimulated in the muscle. The CNS is related to strength not hypertrophy. You are correct in a sense though but stimulus isn't cumulative. Hypertrophy is stimulated or it isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I'll pose the question - which exhausts the CNS, frequency or volume?

    I can do 1 set for every body part 7 days of the week or 7 sets for every body part 1 day a week. Which is going to exhaust the CNS.

    Consider for a moment that CNS exhaustion through volume overload (7 sets 1 day a week) may require greater periods for recovery but progressive overload through frequency (1 set 7 days a week) may promote adaptation and shorten recovery time.

    IMPE low volume, high frequency training done with the proper progressive overload is just as effective and does not exhaust my CNS like high volume, low frequency.

    Just some food for thought
    You seem to be confusing to different things. Stress is stress in either case regardless of what brings it about. Stress isn't cumulative although the trauma to the muscles is. The higher volume causes more damage to the muscles but the effect on the CNS is the same in either case.
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    Thanks, specifically what do you say contributes to sucessful hypertrophy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    Thanks, specifically what do you say contributes to sucessful hypertrophy?
    As far as exercise, nutritional or rest and recovery?
  

  
 

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