E-SPRAY HAS ARRIVED

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    Did you guys happen to catch this article from the NY Times? http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...***rss&emc=rss

    It basically says that DHT produces neurogenesis : ) obviously it's a rat study but promising none the less. I tried to find where the study came from but the article didn't cite the source. Here is a little conclusion of what was found in the study -

    Then the scientists examined all of the animalsí brains. They found that, compared with the sedentary animals, the running rats had significantly more of a potent testosterone derivative called dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in their brains. Even the brains of rats that had been castrated sloshed with DHT.

    So the exercise had prompted increased production of the hormone.

    Most of the animals also had a plethora of new neurons in the hippocampus, a portion of the brain associated with learning and memory. Unexpectedly, however, the animals in this experiment that could not use the DHT in their brains did not experience enhanced neurogenesis. They exercised just as the other animals did, but their brains did not benefit in the same way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Did you guys happen to catch this article from the NY Times? http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...***rss&emc=rss

    It basically says that DHT produces neurogenesis : ) obviously it's a rat study but promising none the less. I tried to find where the study came from but the article didn't cite the source. Here is a little conclusion of what was found in the study -

    Then the scientists examined all of the animals’ brains. They found that, compared with the sedentary animals, the running rats had significantly more of a potent testosterone derivative called dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in their brains. Even the brains of rats that had been castrated sloshed with DHT.

    So the exercise had prompted increased production of the hormone.

    Most of the animals also had a plethora of new neurons in the hippocampus, a portion of the brain associated with learning and memory. Unexpectedly, however, the animals in this experiment that could not use the DHT in their brains did not experience enhanced neurogenesis. They exercised just as the other animals did, but their brains did not benefit in the same way.
    Very interesting, DHT has all kinds of benefits one could say it not testosterone is the king of male hormones as it effects all things male, body hair sex drive etc. etc. see another interesting article here http://pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC3351454/
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    Very interesting, DHT has all kinds of benefits one could say it not testosterone is the king of male hormones as it effects all things male, body hair sex drive etc. etc. see another interesting article here http://pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC3351454/
    problem resolved itself got shipment confirmation but not order confirmation all is good thanks Purity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Did you guys happen to catch this article from the NY Times? http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...***rss&emc=rss

    It basically says that DHT produces neurogenesis : ) obviously it's a rat study but promising none the less. I tried to find where the study came from but the article didn't cite the source. Here is a little conclusion of what was found in the study -

    Then the scientists examined all of the animals’ brains. They found that, compared with the sedentary animals, the running rats had significantly more of a potent testosterone derivative called dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in their brains. Even the brains of rats that had been castrated sloshed with DHT.

    So the exercise had prompted increased production of the hormone.

    Most of the animals also had a plethora of new neurons in the hippocampus, a portion of the brain associated with learning and memory. Unexpectedly, however, the animals in this experiment that could not use the DHT in their brains did not experience enhanced neurogenesis. They exercised just as the other animals did, but their brains did not benefit in the same way.

    interesting but it is probably not applicable to circulating dht (either natural or exogenous). this phenomenon involves localized production of dht and probably many other local factors
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    problem resolved itself got shipment confirmation but not order confirmation all is good thanks Purity

    ?????????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    ?????????
    not sure how the hell that got there, trying to do too many things at once, noticed that post was missing from the intended thread and I just reposted there I deleted it from my post here(edited) Perhaps I need to get some more d-serine next time
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    interesting but it is probably not applicable to circulating dht (either natural or exogenous). this phenomenon involves localized production of dht and probably many other local factors
    Yea that makes sense, especially since in the article it stated that the DHT was created in the brain. I just thought it was pretty sweet, DHT always gets such a bad name as far as sides but it seems that it plays a pretty big role in the body as far as positive effects go.

    Does epiandro cross the BBB?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Yea that makes sense, especially since in the article it stated that the DHT was created in the brain. I just thought it was pretty sweet, DHT always gets such a bad name as far as sides but it seems that it plays a pretty big role in the body as far as positive effects go.

    Does epiandro cross the BBB?

    epinadro should cross the BBB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    epinadro should cross the BBB
    Ok, I'm sure I have this completely backwards but in the study it said that exercise induced dht creation in the brain. And that the rats with no dht found in the brain did not incur neurogenesis otoh the rats WITH dht incurred significant neurogenesis. So theoretically, dosing with a dht precursor such as epiandro (that should cross the BBB) could help stimulate neurogenesis... No? If not I'll shut the f up...

    If so, you may have some users getting some pretty decent cognitive results with a dserine and e spray stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Ok, I'm sure I have this completely backwards but in the study it said that exercise induced dht creation in the brain. And that the rats with no dht found in the brain did not incur neurogenesis otoh the rats WITH dht incurred significant neurogenesis. So theoretically, dosing with a dht precursor such as epiandro (that should cross the BBB) could help stimulate neurogenesis... No? If not I'll shut the f up...

    If so, you may have some users getting some pretty decent cognitive results with a dserine and e spray stack.

    the areas in the brain may be creating levels of dht that far exceed that which could be acheived through systemic administration. also, it may not be just the DHT that is causing this effect but DHT in conjunction with a plethora of other factors that are released or stimulated in response to exercise.
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    Is E spray good to run with test prop???
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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco View Post
    Is E spray good to run with test prop???

    everything is good to run with test prop
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    Could we possibly see an 11/E stack, similar to the 11/7? Would be very beneficial for those that want to run them back to back with other combos etc.

    I want to run this cycle:

    Androhard: 3 pills week 1-8
    Dermacrine: 4 pumps week 1-8
    11-KT Spray: 50 sprays week 1-4
    E-spray: 50 spray week 5-8

    A stack for arou d 90 -100 would be nice, and fit my budget

    Also, any logs for the E-spray yet?
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    EDIT: Double post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    Could we possibly see an 11/E stack, similar to the 11/7? Would be very beneficial for those that want to run them back to back with other combos etc.

    I want to run this cycle:

    Androhard: 3 pills week 1-8
    Dermacrine: 4 pumps week 1-8
    11-KT Spray: 50 sprays week 1-4
    E-spray: 50 spray week 5-8

    A stack for arou d 90 -100 would be nice, and fit my budget

    Also, any logs for the E-spray yet?
    I am not sure on the logs, nor the stack but you never know
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    Yeah, with the 7/11 it makes sence to do one. Get PA on it.
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    is there any concern with the negative effects of dht with using of e spray. Im already using cycle support which has saw palmetto. i particularly concerned with prostate issues
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish View Post
    is there any concern with the negative effects of dht with using of e spray. Im already using cycle support which has saw palmetto. i particularly concerned with prostate issues
    DHT can be trouble for the Prostate....However, that is if DHT were taken in a vacuum and there were no other metabolites and or processes involved. Here is an excerpt from an article that show that blocking DHT may reduce the risk of getting prostate cancer ...BUT increases the risk that if you do get it you will die from it


    t's true that if DHT alone is considered, elevated levels of DHT might be thought to increase your prostate cancer risk, as DHT is a procarcinogenic (for the technically inclined, dedifferentiating) metabolite. (3), (4)

    But Nature hasn't provided DHT alone! If we take the metabolites of DHT into consideration, too, elevated DHT may or may not have this effect. One of these metabolites may actually offset or even reduce any DHT-increased risk. How does that happen?



    Stop Suppressing Your Natural Defense


    After testosterone is converted to DHT, DHT is in turn normally metabolized into a relatively smaller quantity of 5 [alpha] -androstane-3 [alpha], 17 [beta] -diol (abbreviated as 3 [alpha] -Adiol), and a usually larger amount of 5 [alpha] -androstane-3 [beta], 17 [beta] -diol (abbreviated as 3 [beta] -Adiol). These same researchers also report that while nearly all the 3 [alpha] -Adiol is converted back to DHT (which presumably makes 3 [alpha] -Adiol a "pre-procarcinogen"), the 3 [beta] -Adiol does not convert back to 5 [alpha] -DHT. Very importantly, they report that 3 [beta] -Adiol is an anticarcinogen (for the technically inclined, a redifferentiating agent) that activates estrogen receptor beta, an anticarcinogenic estrogen receptor present in large numbers in the prostate gland. (5) (Estrogen receptor beta is present in many other tissues in both sexes, but that's a topic to be explored at another time.)

    What's that? A testosterone metabolite that activates an estrogen receptor? A testosterone metabolite that doesn't activate any androgen receptors at all? That's right, and (very unfortunately for the men involved) my observation has been that many men who take finasteride to suppress procarcinogenic DHT end up suppressing their own anticarcinogenic 3 [beta] -Adiol even more, thus shifting the procarcinogen (DHT) to anticarcinogen (3 [beta] -Adiol) ratio toward a greater risk of cancer. I've also seen this occasionally with high doses of saw palmetto.

    In a letter to the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Otabek Imamov, MD, et al. state, "[DHT] is the fulcrum in this balance. It suggests that finasteride, by blocking the conversion of testosterone to [DHT], inhibits the production of [3 [beta] -Adiol] thus suppressing [the anticarcinogenic activity of] ER [beta] and preventing the [re]-differentiation of epithelium. This mechanism could account for the higher incidence of poorly differentiated tumors in the finasteride group in the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial." (6)
    you can find the full article here

    http://www.biomedsearch.com/article/...297056560.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish View Post
    is there any concern with the negative effects of dht with using of e spray. Im already using cycle support which has saw palmetto. i particularly concerned with prostate issues
    there is a pretty big difference between DHT created by enzymatic action on testosterone, and DHT administered other ways. DHT has even been looked at for use as a testosterone replacement for men with low testosterone. In and of itself, directly administered there didn't seem to be any increased incidence in BPH or hair loss.
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    Hey Guys,

    Just ordered the 7/11 stack, UR Spray, COP and E-spray! Cant wait to how they go.

    One question in regards to E-Spray.. How much shut down and side effects can I expect from a 4 week cycle and is it permanent? I am 26 and I'd be happy to just continue using the great other products if E-Spray is to much of a risk for me.

    Cheers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizzle123 View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Just ordered the 7/11 stack, UR Spray, COP and E-spray! Cant wait to how they go.

    One question in regards to E-Spray.. How much shut down and side effects can I expect from a 4 week cycle and is it permanent? I am 26 and I'd be happy to just continue using the great other products if E-Spray is to much of a risk for me.

    Cheers!
    At 4 weeks minimal shut down and certainly not permanent
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    Mine should be here today. Has anybody started theirs yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish View Post
    Mine should be here today. Has anybody started theirs yet.
    No but I plan on using E-spray to combat libido/lethargy sides on my next cycle...
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish View Post
    Mine should be here today. Has anybody started theirs yet.
    next week I start mine
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    I'll start tomorrow with my epistane
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    Should I worry about using E-Spray if I sleep with my gf? I picked up UR spray after truth let me know I was gtg. I really like the idea of e-spray (loved stanodrol) but wouldn't want my girl growing a mustache or a dick. Thanks guys, and thanks to PA for standing by this industry for so long.
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    On day 2 nothin to report yet
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish
    On day 2 nothin to report yet
    Keep us posted
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonnyG View Post
    Should I worry about using E-Spray if I sleep with my gf? I picked up UR spray after truth let me know I was gtg. I really like the idea of e-spray (loved stanodrol) but wouldn't want my girl growing a mustache or a dick. Thanks guys, and thanks to PA for standing by this industry for so long.
    It is hormonal so I'd err on the side of caution. If you are completely dry you should be ok but sweat can reactivate it so be careful
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    good info truth. I have worn a longsleeve tee and socks for the lat two days while Im home around my wife and kid. So as long as its dry and i cant really feel any residue i should be ok for some light contact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonnyG View Post
    Should I worry about using E-Spray if I sleep with my gf? I picked up UR spray after truth let me know I was gtg. I really like the idea of e-spray (loved stanodrol) but wouldn't want my girl growing a mustache or a dick. Thanks guys, and thanks to PA for standing by this industry for so long.
    IMHO, It depends; standard contact while clothed should be no big deal... but if you're wrestling around in a t-shirt and shorts, or rolling around in the bedroom, it might be a good idea to jump in a pool or shower off any topical products with any hormonal activity...
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    Don't know if its related but been on espray since Friday so 3 days and had one hell of a wet dream last night had to get up and shower. I'm 28 and don't get those too often anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish View Post
    Don't know if its related but been on espray since Friday so 3 days and had one hell of a wet dream last night had to get up and shower. I'm 28 and don't get those too often anymore.
    could very well be to quote I think Johnny Carson "I remember when my dreams were wet and my farts were dry" lol
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    Not anything really new still at 50 sprays 2x daily. Great pumps in the gym and more vascular during w/o but no difference in sex drive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abish
    Not anything really new still at 50 sprays 2x daily. Great pumps in the gym and more vascular during w/o but no difference in sex drive.
    Wouldn't great pumps and *increased* vascularity be considered as new?
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    Yes but I am stacking with epistane at 30 mg daily. And have been since the start of espray. I was hoping more for that raging sex drive feel. I'm not disappointed yet I still have a bottle and a half so I have lots more time for more testing
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    Isn't that going to be crazy dry on your joints?
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    Not yet. Bus have cissus on hand might start supplementing for prevention
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    Isn't that going to be crazy dry on your joints?
    Dry is probably not the right way to think about it, as it's unlikely that there is literally less water in your joints. There is science out there that suggests lowering endogenous estrogens facilitates the onset of inflammation. If that is the case, you could call the joint pain from low E, arthritis (literally "joint inflammation") or if it is the case that it isn't a problem caused by inflammation, Patrick has used the term is arthralgia (literally "joint pain"). I've certainly noticed this joint pain on high doses of EPI (50-60) and AI's (3 Erase/day causes me severe pain), but never felt like my joints were "dehydrated".
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    Quote Originally Posted by muad33b View Post
    Dry is probably not the right way to think about it, as it's unlikely that there is literally less water in your joints. There is science out there that suggests lowering endogenous estrogens facilitates the onset of inflammation. If that is the case, you could call the joint pain from low E, arthritis (literally "joint inflammation") or if it is the case that it isn't a problem caused by inflammation, Patrick has used the term is arthralgia (literally "joint pain"). I've certainly noticed this joint pain on high doses of EPI (50-60) and AI's (3 Erase/day causes me severe pain), but never felt like my joints were "dehydrated".


    correct, its an inflammatory issue not a water issue.

    people probably assumed it was water because estrogens are associated with water retention
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