7-Spray

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Hopefully that means you'll stop posting in here soon.
    I'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    I'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!
    It seems to have been going

    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Orly?
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Yarly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Rly?
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Ya.
    For a while now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Even if I had seen the mass spec data I would still be none the wiser. I have little to no understanding of how to read them. PA, on the other hand, has decades of experience at the GCMS.
    This largely ignores what I said though. If people are going around saying a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does then proof is mandatory. Otherwise what is to stop owners/reps from saying this about all their competitors products? "Anabeta isn't what PES says it is, Titanium isn't what Athletix says it is, Flashover isn't what Omega says it is, etc." It would be generally chaos.

    In my opinion the most damning thing you can say about a company is that what they are selling to consumers is not what consumers think it is. You don't have a problem with saying Taurus is lying about the contents of their product, yet you haven't seen any proof? I just think if someone was accusing you guys of the same thing without proof you might be a little upset.

    Again, not trying to start any type of flame war and I could really care less who "wins" this battle...but as a consumer and supplement user I think I'm entitled to more than just rumor on something as serious as this accusation.
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    Let me be clear here. It is not the issue of "bringing it up" that was dishonorable, it was the manner (un backed inuendo and "Don't hold me responsibile. I'm just saying" thing that IMO is "dishonorable." Then rather than come up with something to challenge the validity of my position you 1) Try to dismiss it as an Emotional Appeal (Heartwarming, I believe was the term you used), 2) Then you feigned being personally offended (at least I hope you were feigning, because if some one who holds no real meaning in your life describing your behavior in an unfavorable gets to you, then you have much bigger issues then WTF is in 7 Keto.) 3) I try to clarify that I was describing the behavior and not you personally and you "read between the lines" as you put it, being all offended. (Let me be perfectly clear, I some times describe my own behavior as being "*******ish" because it can be. Does that mean I think I am an *******? Nope, just my behavior can be. In that sense, I most certainly describe some one else as behaving like a slime ball and being weasel like and not be calling them a weasel or slime ball per se. As you noted, I don't know you. 4) Then you try to insult my intelligence by mocking the way I spelled "honour" which is laughable to me in that although no longer used in modern English, it is more than acceptable in olde English and there by technically correct. All of this grand illusion of misdirection (points 1-4) do absolutely nothing to invalidate my description of the way this has been handled nor defend your handling of it.

    "I have no credibility? I think a lot of people would disagree with that view. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion though.
    Have a nice day y'all."


    In this particular matter, yep. Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.

    You seem to be implying that my wish for you to have a god day was insincere. I assure you, it was not. Why would it be. I hold no grudge against you. No internet spat is worth renting head space over. Just not worth it. I will take your well wishes with a positive attitude and thank you sir, for I intend to have a great day INDEED!
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    Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    4) Then you try to insult my intelligence by mocking the way I spelled "honour" which is laughable to me in that although no longer used in modern English, it is more than acceptable in olde English and there by technically correct.
    I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    3) I try to clarify that I was describing the behavior and not you personally and you "read between the lines" as you put it, being all offended. (Let me be perfectly clear, I some times describe my own behavior as being "*******ish" because it can be. Does that mean I think I am an *******? Nope, just my behavior can be. In that sense, I most certainly describe some one else as behaving like a slime ball and being weasel like and not be calling them a weasel or slime ball per se.
    You're right about this. I've made the same distinction in the past and had the recipient not understand the difference. It's more difficult to disseminate when you're on the receiving end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.
    I've addressed them as best I can given the constraints upon me. I would argue that the other posters have been the ones engaged in misdirection, and that mine have been clarifying.
    Antus Labs
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    As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.

    Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?

    As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.

    Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?

    Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.
    LOL, nice! A sense of Humor! Good to see man! And now I feel compelled to ask 2 questions. 1) Is it Henry the 5th then? and 2) Do you spell color (American version) COLOUR? Just curious, and yes I am being an ass! BTW, only people from the South and Texas use "Y'all". It is a very regional term, just FYI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.

    Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?

    As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.

    Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?

    Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
    Very good post BDCC!
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    "Anabeta isn't what PES says it is, Titanium isn't what Athletix says it is, Flashover isn't what Omega says it is, etc."
    There's a long history of products, particularly steroidal products, not meeting label claims.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19061909

    The product Orastan-A from Gaspari Nutrition was analyzed for its steroid content. According to the labeling, it is supposed to contain "5a-Androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether", also called furazadrol-THP ether. The GC-MS analyses of the liberated steroids (after extraction from the capsule matrix and cleavage of the THP ether, TMS-derivative and underivatized) revealed mass spectra of two components, both inconsistent with the labeling. Thus, the steroids were characterized by different analytical techniques such as mass spectrometry, nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy and X-ray crystal structure analysis. They were identified as 17beta-hydroxyandrostano[3,2-c]isoxazole and -[2,3-d]isoxazole.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20355167
    Two preparations, EPISTANE and P-PLEX, were obtained from the Internet so that their contents could be investigated.

    Although the labelling of EPISTANE indicates that it contains 17alpha-methyl-2alpha, 3alpha-epithio-5alpha-androstane-17beta-ol only, ... desoxymethyltestosterone [was] identified in the supplement. The results showed that P-PLEX contained desoxymethyltestosterone and its isomer 17alpha-methyl-5alpha-androst-3-en-17beta-ol.


    Doping in Sports: Biochemical Principles, Effects and Analysis By Detlef Thieme, Peter Hemmersbach

    In addition to the well documented cases above, CEL recalled a batch of M1,4ADD which I believe contained the wrong ingredient, Halodrol 50 is widely believed to have been contaminated with phera, there was the Monsterdrol XT fiasco, and Oxyguno found to be a mixture of the 11-hydroxy and -ketone compounds, I could go on and on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.

    Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?
    For a UK consumer there would be no legal ramifications. Even though the claimed substance found in 7-ke is also a controlled substance in the UK, we are allowed to import steroidal products (even though they're controlled) for personal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.
    I'm glad you understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?

    Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
    Yes they could. For reasons known only to him or her, he or she has chosen not to.
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    Not to be an ass, but you keep skirting the question Henry. When did I claim that products COULDN'T be tainted or mislabeled? I'm to the point where I think you are intentionally not responding to what my posts are saying, but instead trying to post something that acts like it addresses it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    You don't have a problem with saying Taurus is lying about the contents of their product
    Just to be clear I have never said that. It's clear that the label is inaccurate in a few different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Not to be an ass, but you keep skirting the question Henry. When did I claim that products COULDN'T be tainted or mislabeled? I'm to the point where I think you are intentionally not responding to what my posts are saying, but instead trying to post something that acts like it addresses it.
    I've already addressed as much as I can. Anything else I post at this stage are things that may be relevant to the discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Just to be clear I have never said that. It's clear that the label is inaccurate in a few different ways.



    I've already addressed as much as I can. Anything else I post at this stage are things that may be relevant to the discussion.
    Fair enough, I realize there may be extenuating circumstances for both parties involved that may keep them from disclosing information.
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    What's with the 100 guys on one attack fest.

    Who gives a crap everyone - let it go.

    GEEEEEEESH! WTH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    What's with the 100 guys on one attack fest.

    Who gives a crap everyone - let it go.

    GEEEEEEESH! WTH
    It's actually a pretty big deal. As a consumer I believe I have a right to know what I'm putting into my body. As a user of 7 KE spray the accusation that it doesn't have what they say is not something I can easily just let go, and if you are a big supplement user I don't see how you can disagree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    It's actually a pretty big deal. As a consumer I believe I have a right to know what I'm putting into my body. As a user of 7 KE spray the accusation that it doesn't have what they say is not something I can easily just let go, and if you are a big supplement user I don't see how you can disagree.
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    This is like a damn BB.com discussion. A bunch of banter lacking real information and a ****load side skirting. This situation is ridiculous, and neither side is handling it correctly IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T50 View Post
    This is like a damn BB.com discussion. A bunch of banter lacking real information and a ****load side skirting. This situation is ridiculous, and neither side is handling it correctly IMO.
    I thought they talked about it here? http://www.prohormoneforum.com/q-pat...5-5aohp-2.html post #33.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Seriously. I love how all of these people who drop this crap provide no proof of the details of their sordid tales and then act as if the have no culpability in starting or keeping this rumor alive. Kind of like me saying I heard my neighbor is a pedophile. I am not saying he is, it is just what I have heard. Oh, no, no, I do not have any proof, I am just saying what I was told and trying to be honest about it. Don't expect me to be held accountable for this, because I did not say it was true, I am simply telling you what I heard. BULL****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

    If you are worried about "honestly" or "culpability" (or even freaking decency for that matter) keep you mouth shut until you have something to back it up. But do not come in here playing all innocent with "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" and not expect to be accountable. What a damn cop out! At this point, I don't even care all that much about what the "truth" of the matter is, the SLIME BALL manner in which this rumor has been disseminated and the weasel like manner that those who have done it try to deny their own guilt in the issue sickens me. I was raised and honor that your word is your bond and have raised my children the same way, promise or no. If I told you I will perform it, I will perform it. If I don't KNOW something to be true, I do not repeat it. Even if it is true, I still may not repeat it if it will not be beneficial to anyone. Too bad for some people it seems that code of honor does not exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    I think if the shoe were on the other foot (Taurus or some other company claiming your products were inaccurate) you might believe otherwise about the need for proof.Without proof reps and owners can just go around all day talking about the fact that competitors products don't have in them what they say they have.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, and none of it effects my bottom line at all. But you're literally telling other people that the Taurus product is not what they say it is and then saying you haven't seen the test results....doesn't seem very fair to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    ]

    dude dont make a claim like that and not back it up....this isnt BB.com. If you are going to make a claim have some evidence to prove it rather than just hearsay or stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by T50 View Post
    Where is the lab report proving this?
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Ours contains what it says it does.
    sums it all up. disgusting really.
    I have used PA's products (testforce2) and have recommended it to many people even though our company sells a competing product but the way
    this has been handled here and on other boards has been disgusting and certainly changed my opinion on a few people in the industry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craigmatthew View Post
    sums it all up. disgusting really.
    I have used PA's products (testforce2) and have recommended it to many people even though our company sells a competing product but the way
    this has been handled here and on other boards has been disgusting and certainly changed my opinion on a few people in the industry.
    I'm glad you like our products. I'm sorry you feel this has been handled badly, but tbh the reaction from a Taurus rep is always likely to be negative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus Big K View Post
    Patrick I just wanted to inform you that you will be getting a letter and lawsuit from Taurus

    Big K
    Taurus Nutrition.
    I think that is the wrong way to handle the situation too. So there we are.

    Like I've said earlier in the thread, why don't we let our bosses sort it out between themselves.
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    Customer Service customerservice@taurus-nutrition.com via gateway11.websitewelcome.com
    show details 4:43 PM (1 hour ago)



    For any of you following the controversy, it does appear that there is a very small amount of 5a-androstanediol in our 7-KE product (roughly 3% of the active ingredient). Even though we feel that this is probably a normal situation where our supplier did give us one of the materials with less than 95% purity, we still feel like the right thing to do is advise our customers and offer a refund. We strongly feel that this trace amount isn't enough to cause ANY physiological effect, but it's the right thing to do. Please discard your unused portion.

    To answer every critic on the boards this stuff happens when you rely on Chinese suppliers and has happened to many companies in the past. I hope you treat Taurus the same way you've treated them. It's regrettable, but this stuff happens and we will in act even tougher testing protocols to ensure that this doesn't happen again.
    If you wish to get a refund, please email:
    Please form an orderly queue to issue apologies.
    Antus Labs
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Please form an orderly queue to issue apologies.
    Although my primary issue was the manner in which this matter was handled, rather than stating "No way this is true" or what have you, I am humble enough to acknowledge your post Henry as well as the verification that of a sort that I had hoped one would have waited for before publicizing those reports. None the less, what is done is done and it appears I need to swallow a bit of humble pie and acknowledge that I did in fact "back the wrong horse".
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    Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Although my primary issue was the manner in which this matter was handled, rather than stating "No way this is true" or what have you, I am humble enough to acknowledge your post Henry as well as the verification that of a sort that I had hoped one would have waited for before publicizing those reports. None the less, what is done is done and it appears I need to swallow a bit of humble pie and acknowledge that I did in fact "back the wrong horse".
    I don't know if there is a right way to handle this stuff. Should I have ignored that I knew the 7KE contained androgens? Not mentioned it when questioned? Surely that would have been - to use judojosh's words from page 1 - disengenuous.
    Taurus threatened PA with a lawsuit for even suggesting that it contained controlled substances (even though it wasn't him that posted his results), which they've since admitted that it did.
    Just about every Taurus rep chimed in here, questioning PA's ethics, suggesting that it was a ruse to sway customers in our favour.

    I didn't need verification from Taurus. I knew PA had tested it, and I knew the results. I handled the situation the best I could. PA did the same, while limiting his liability for litigation. I would suggest that it was Taurus and their reps that handled the situation badly. You're welcome to disagree.

    I understand customers being skeptical of a company's motives. I applaud it. We do have ulterior motives. We do want to sell you stuff. Buy Ursobolic.
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    Sub'd
    PHF Anabolic Trinity Epistane, Trenavar, and Mentabolan - Available Now!!
    Celtic Labs-Trestobol, HaloMass, Celitren, Ostabal and more Available Now!!
    PHF Rep/Celtic labs

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    The initial response may have sparked a lot of hostility, but as angry as people want to get about it, it is true. Lesson learned for Taurus Nutrition: from now on, pay a 3rd party (such as PA) to test your raw material. Taurus had the integrity to offer refunds and admit to the error and I'm sure no harm was done, so maybe those who want to apologize can do so and let's nip this at the bud and move on.
  

  
 

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