7-Spray

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    I wouldn't say we were close. I doubt we've ever been on the same continent.



    I said that to taman6886 when he was saying I was "dishonourable" for bringing the matter up.



    It's not that easy to separate motives (you as both a consumer and rep), as you guys have been pointing out (PA as both tester and competitor).

    Surely the pressure should be on the manufacturer of the product to demonstrate that it contains what it says it does. This would hardly be the first time a bodybuilding product was found to contain something other than what is on the label.
    hardly the first time PA made something that contained stuff other then what was on the label... oh wait I forgot he is the watchdog and would NEVER do something like that right..
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates


  2. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    I wouldn't say we were close. I doubt we've ever been on the same continent.



    I said that to taman6886 when he was saying I was "dishonourable" for bringing the matter up.



    It's not that easy to separate motives (you as both a consumer and rep), as you guys have been pointing out (PA as both tester and competitor).

    Surely the pressure should be on the manufacturer of the product to demonstrate that it contains what it says it does. This would hardly be the first time a bodybuilding product was found to contain something other than what is on the label.
    Seriously, don't church up your role here...were board reps, who can be replaced by the push of a keyboard button. do you honestly think any of the profits that TN makes goes into my pockets? LMAO..bottom line is you brought this up, so back it up. This is clearly what taman was saying, your spitting out venom on something that you know or haven't seen any bit of truth on, and yet your not even close to PA (As you said) but yet, you sit here and commend yourself for....Stellar performance my friend, and this is what builds you a stellar reputation you say? again I just pissed all over my leg!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    hardly the first time PA made something that contained stuff other then what was on the label... oh wait I forgot he is the watchdog and would NEVER do something like that right..
    I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I believe I covered this topic when I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by henryv
    We are not talking about supplements that contain miniscule traces of other compounds (say less than 1% contamination due to an unfinished reaction or something).
    We are talking about a product that does not contain the ingredients it says it does.
    You'll note that this was the same distracting technique that NTBM/whatever the "sister company" is called tried when confronted with evidence that their Monsterdrol XT wasn't what they said it was. A technique that failed then and made them look very stupid in their "**** you PA thread" (since deleted), and will fail again if you insist on pushing the subject here.
    Antus Labs rep

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Seriously, don't church up your role here...were board reps, who can be replaced by the push of a keyboard button. do you honestly think any of the profits that TN makes goes into my pockets? LMAO..bottom line is you brought this up, so back it up. This is clearly what taman was saying, your spitting out venom on something that you know or haven't seen any bit of truth on, and yet your not even close to PA (As you said) but yet, you sit here and commend yourself for....Stellar performance my friend, and this is what builds you a stellar reputation you say? again I just pissed all over my leg!
    This would appear to be some kind of personal insult, so I'll just pretend you didn't say it and instead kept your dignity intact.
    Antus Labs rep

  5. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    This would appear to be some kind of personal insult, so I'll just pretend you didn't say it and instead kept your dignity intact.
    Do you agree with anything im writting? serioulsy...... a Lifter to Henry Question?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Do you agree with anything im writting? serioulsy...... a Lifter to Henry Question?
    I agree that your rep benefits aren't directly linked to TN profits. I think that's about all I can agree with.
    I'm not spitting venom. The rest of your diatribe seems to be an attempt to twist my words to present me in a bad light.
    Antus Labs rep

  7. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    I agree that your rep benefits aren't directly linked to TN profits. I think that's about all I can agree with.
    I'm not spitting venom. The rest of your diatribe seems to be an attempt to twist my words to present me in a bad light.
    Henry r you serious?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Henry r you serious?
    In the posts in this thread? Yeah.
    Antus Labs rep

  9. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    In the posts in this thread? Yeah.
    im speechless..............:roll:

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    im speechless..............:roll:
    Hopefully that means you'll stop posting in here soon.
    Antus Labs rep

  11. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Hopefully that means you'll stop posting in here soon.
    I'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    I'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!
    It seems to have been going

    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Orly?
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Yarly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    Rly?
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Ya.
    For a while now.
    Antus Labs rep

  13. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Even if I had seen the mass spec data I would still be none the wiser. I have little to no understanding of how to read them. PA, on the other hand, has decades of experience at the GCMS.
    This largely ignores what I said though. If people are going around saying a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does then proof is mandatory. Otherwise what is to stop owners/reps from saying this about all their competitors products? "Anabeta isn't what PES says it is, Titanium isn't what Athletix says it is, Flashover isn't what Omega says it is, etc." It would be generally chaos.

    In my opinion the most damning thing you can say about a company is that what they are selling to consumers is not what consumers think it is. You don't have a problem with saying Taurus is lying about the contents of their product, yet you haven't seen any proof? I just think if someone was accusing you guys of the same thing without proof you might be a little upset.

    Again, not trying to start any type of flame war and I could really care less who "wins" this battle...but as a consumer and supplement user I think I'm entitled to more than just rumor on something as serious as this accusation.

  14. Let me be clear here. It is not the issue of "bringing it up" that was dishonorable, it was the manner (un backed inuendo and "Don't hold me responsibile. I'm just saying" thing that IMO is "dishonorable." Then rather than come up with something to challenge the validity of my position you 1) Try to dismiss it as an Emotional Appeal (Heartwarming, I believe was the term you used), 2) Then you feigned being personally offended (at least I hope you were feigning, because if some one who holds no real meaning in your life describing your behavior in an unfavorable gets to you, then you have much bigger issues then WTF is in 7 Keto.) 3) I try to clarify that I was describing the behavior and not you personally and you "read between the lines" as you put it, being all offended. (Let me be perfectly clear, I some times describe my own behavior as being "*******ish" because it can be. Does that mean I think I am an *******? Nope, just my behavior can be. In that sense, I most certainly describe some one else as behaving like a slime ball and being weasel like and not be calling them a weasel or slime ball per se. As you noted, I don't know you. 4) Then you try to insult my intelligence by mocking the way I spelled "honour" which is laughable to me in that although no longer used in modern English, it is more than acceptable in olde English and there by technically correct. All of this grand illusion of misdirection (points 1-4) do absolutely nothing to invalidate my description of the way this has been handled nor defend your handling of it.

    "I have no credibility? I think a lot of people would disagree with that view. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion though.
    Have a nice day y'all."


    In this particular matter, yep. Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.

    You seem to be implying that my wish for you to have a god day was insincere. I assure you, it was not. Why would it be. I hold no grudge against you. No internet spat is worth renting head space over. Just not worth it. I will take your well wishes with a positive attitude and thank you sir, for I intend to have a great day INDEED!
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve

    Recoverbro

  15. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    4) Then you try to insult my intelligence by mocking the way I spelled "honour" which is laughable to me in that although no longer used in modern English, it is more than acceptable in olde English and there by technically correct.
    I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.
    Antus Labs rep

  16. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    3) I try to clarify that I was describing the behavior and not you personally and you "read between the lines" as you put it, being all offended. (Let me be perfectly clear, I some times describe my own behavior as being "*******ish" because it can be. Does that mean I think I am an *******? Nope, just my behavior can be. In that sense, I most certainly describe some one else as behaving like a slime ball and being weasel like and not be calling them a weasel or slime ball per se.
    You're right about this. I've made the same distinction in the past and had the recipient not understand the difference. It's more difficult to disseminate when you're on the receiving end.
    Antus Labs rep

  17. Quote Originally Posted by taman6886 View Post
    Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.
    I've addressed them as best I can given the constraints upon me. I would argue that the other posters have been the ones engaged in misdirection, and that mine have been clarifying.
    Antus Labs rep

  18. As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.

    Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?

    As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.

    Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?

    Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.
    LOL, nice! A sense of Humor! Good to see man! And now I feel compelled to ask 2 questions. 1) Is it Henry the 5th then? and 2) Do you spell color (American version) COLOUR? Just curious, and yes I am being an ass! BTW, only people from the South and Texas use "Y'all". It is a very regional term, just FYI.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve

    Recoverbro

  20. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.

    Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?

    As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.

    Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?

    Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
    Very good post BDCC!
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve

    Recoverbro

  21. Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    "Anabeta isn't what PES says it is, Titanium isn't what Athletix says it is, Flashover isn't what Omega says it is, etc."
    There's a long history of products, particularly steroidal products, not meeting label claims.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19061909

    The product Orastan-A from Gaspari Nutrition was analyzed for its steroid content. According to the labeling, it is supposed to contain "5a-Androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether", also called furazadrol-THP ether. The GC-MS analyses of the liberated steroids (after extraction from the capsule matrix and cleavage of the THP ether, TMS-derivative and underivatized) revealed mass spectra of two components, both inconsistent with the labeling. Thus, the steroids were characterized by different analytical techniques such as mass spectrometry, nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy and X-ray crystal structure analysis. They were identified as 17beta-hydroxyandrostano[3,2-c]isoxazole and -[2,3-d]isoxazole.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20355167
    Two preparations, EPISTANE and P-PLEX, were obtained from the Internet so that their contents could be investigated.

    Although the labelling of EPISTANE indicates that it contains 17alpha-methyl-2alpha, 3alpha-epithio-5alpha-androstane-17beta-ol only, ... desoxymethyltestosterone [was] identified in the supplement. The results showed that P-PLEX contained desoxymethyltestosterone and its isomer 17alpha-methyl-5alpha-androst-3-en-17beta-ol.


    Doping in Sports: Biochemical Principles, Effects and Analysis By Detlef Thieme, Peter Hemmersbach

    In addition to the well documented cases above, CEL recalled a batch of M1,4ADD which I believe contained the wrong ingredient, Halodrol 50 is widely believed to have been contaminated with phera, there was the Monsterdrol XT fiasco, and Oxyguno found to be a mixture of the 11-hydroxy and -ketone compounds, I could go on and on.
    Antus Labs rep

  22. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.

    Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?
    For a UK consumer there would be no legal ramifications. Even though the claimed substance found in 7-ke is also a controlled substance in the UK, we are allowed to import steroidal products (even though they're controlled) for personal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.
    I'm glad you understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?

    Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
    Yes they could. For reasons known only to him or her, he or she has chosen not to.
    Antus Labs rep

  23. Not to be an ass, but you keep skirting the question Henry. When did I claim that products COULDN'T be tainted or mislabeled? I'm to the point where I think you are intentionally not responding to what my posts are saying, but instead trying to post something that acts like it addresses it.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    You don't have a problem with saying Taurus is lying about the contents of their product
    Just to be clear I have never said that. It's clear that the label is inaccurate in a few different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Not to be an ass, but you keep skirting the question Henry. When did I claim that products COULDN'T be tainted or mislabeled? I'm to the point where I think you are intentionally not responding to what my posts are saying, but instead trying to post something that acts like it addresses it.
    I've already addressed as much as I can. Anything else I post at this stage are things that may be relevant to the discussion.
    Antus Labs rep

  25. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Just to be clear I have never said that. It's clear that the label is inaccurate in a few different ways.



    I've already addressed as much as I can. Anything else I post at this stage are things that may be relevant to the discussion.
    Fair enough, I realize there may be extenuating circumstances for both parties involved that may keep them from disclosing information.

  26. What's with the 100 guys on one attack fest.

    Who gives a crap everyone - let it go.

    GEEEEEEESH! WTH
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    What's with the 100 guys on one attack fest.

    Who gives a crap everyone - let it go.

    GEEEEEEESH! WTH
    It's actually a pretty big deal. As a consumer I believe I have a right to know what I'm putting into my body. As a user of 7 KE spray the accusation that it doesn't have what they say is not something I can easily just let go, and if you are a big supplement user I don't see how you can disagree.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    It's actually a pretty big deal. As a consumer I believe I have a right to know what I'm putting into my body. As a user of 7 KE spray the accusation that it doesn't have what they say is not something I can easily just let go, and if you are a big supplement user I don't see how you can disagree.
    If it makes you feel any better...we can't tell you why.
    E-Pharm Nutrition Representative

  29. This is like a damn BB.com discussion. A bunch of banter lacking real information and a ****load side skirting. This situation is ridiculous, and neither side is handling it correctly IMO.
    Cutting all summer, cycle in September

  30. Quote Originally Posted by T50 View Post
    This is like a damn BB.com discussion. A bunch of banter lacking real information and a ****load side skirting. This situation is ridiculous, and neither side is handling it correctly IMO.
    I thought they talked about it here? http://www.prohormoneforum.com/q-pat...5-5aohp-2.html post #33.
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