Any difference between THIS and Taurus Nutrition's 7-keto spray that got great reviews here and TONS of posts.
Care to expand on that? Would be interesting to know what you know on this? What did I miss?Ours contains what it says it does (and no controlled substances).
I understand a bottle was sent by a customer to a third party and the test results were unsatisfactory. Obviously chain of custody was not intact (since it could have been tampered with by the customer), the results have not been made public by the customer, and I have no desire to be sued (wrongfully or otherwise) so I'll just say that I understand the sample tested was about 50% 7-keto.Care to expand on that? Would be interesting to know what you know on this? What did I miss?
Where is the lab report proving this?I understand a bottle was sent by a customer to a third party and the test results were unsatisfactory. Obviously chain of custody was not intact (since it could have been tampered with by the customer), the results have not been made public by the customer, and I have no desire to be sued (wrongfully or otherwise) so I'll just say that I understand the sample tested was about 50% 7-keto.
Something id like to see also..Where is the lab report proving this?
]Ours contains what it says it does.
lol, seriously.... this gets better and better, great way to sell a product]
dude dont make a claim like that and not back it up....this isnt BB.com. If you are going to make a claim have some evidence to prove it rather than just hearsay or stories.
a little disingenuous here bud.I understand a bottle was sent by a customer to a third party and the test results were unsatisfactory. Obviously chain of custody was not intact (since it could have been tampered with by the customer), the results have not been made public by the customer, and I have no desire to be sued (wrongfully or otherwise) so I'll just say that I understand the sample tested was about 50% 7-keto.
This isn't bb.com and I'm not a bb.commer. The question was asked what the differences are, and I gave what I believe to be an honest answer. I was quite clear about it as well. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just passing on what I have been told.dude dont make a claim like that and not back it up....this isnt BB.com. If you are going to make a claim have some evidence to prove it rather than just hearsay or stories.
Actually I was being very honest, but I have no interest in being named in any suit so I'm trying to be careful not to expose myself or my boss to the potential for litigation.a little disingenuous here bud.
PA has been testing supplements on behalf of the industry and the consumer for many years. Sometimes the products are exactly what they are supposed to be. Sometimes they are not. And I haven't signed any statement, co- or otherwise.He definitely has a motive here to cause doubt over 7KE and I would have thought this would at the very least cause people to think twice before just co-signing the statement but alas I guess people love the drama way to much to stop and actually think about it.
Henry I know who ya are. I know you are knowledgeable but you are are probably a bit bias. Ill check it out.. But im just tired of board drama based on what someone said. Seems like there jas been too m uch latelyThis isn't bb.com and I'm not a bb.commer. The question was asked what the differences are, and I gave what I believe to be an honest answer. I was quite clear about it as well. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just passing on what I have been told.Check out this thread for more info. You may want to start at this point if you're only interested in the 7-ke stuff.
People can do whatever they like with the information. Deny it, believe it, ignore it, whatever. It's not my job to defend test results I haven't seen. There are enough other points raised in that thread about the Taurus product to make one question the accuracy of the label.Henry I know who ya are. I know you are knowledgeable but you are are probably a bit bias. Ill check it out.. But im just tired of board drama based on what someone said. Seems like there jas been too m uch lately
:rofl:Actually I was being very honest, but I have no interest in being named in any suit so I'm trying to be careful not to expose myself or my boss to the potential for litigation.
PA has been testing supplements on behalf of the industry and the consumer for many years. Sometimes the products are exactly what they are supposed to be. Sometimes they are not. And I haven't signed any statement, co- or otherwise.
I don't see what's funny. Some companies pay PA for testing. Some consumers pay PA for testing. Sometimes he does it for free because he's interested in the results.:rofl:
:rofl:
LMAO:lol:, you bring up lable claims? Im Curious, and i would like to hear Mr. Arnold answer this, has he never sold a supplement that has been tainted? or are you saying this? I would choose my words carefully...I don't see what's funny. Some companies pay PA for testing. Some consumers pay PA for testing. Sometimes he does it for free because he's interested in the results.
Look. You're a rep, I'm a rep. Why don't we let our bosses argue over this stuff. If it does turn out that your product doesn't meet label claims (and it obviously doesn't already in several ways, regardless of the ingredients), the less you say about it now the less words you'll have to eat later.
I think if the shoe were on the other foot (Taurus or some other company claiming your products were inaccurate) you might believe otherwise about the need for proof.Without proof reps and owners can just go around all day talking about the fact that competitors products don't have in them what they say they have.People can do whatever they like with the information. Deny it, believe it, ignore it, whatever. It's not my job to defend test results I haven't seen. There are enough other points raised in that thread about the Taurus product to make one question the accuracy of the label.
Etched in stone!^Seriously. I love how all of these people who drop this crap provide no proof of the details of their sordid tales and then act as if the have no culpability in starting or keeping this rumor alive. Kind of like me saying I heard my neighbor is a pedophile. I am not saying he is, it is just what I have heard. Oh, no, no, I do not have any proof, I am just saying what I was told and trying to be honest about it. Don't expect me to be held accountable for this, because I did not say it was true, I am simply telling you what I heard. BULL****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are worried about "honestly" or "culpability" (or even freaking decency for that matter) keep you mouth shut until you have something to back it up. But do not come in here playing all innocent with "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" and not expect to be accountable. What a damn cop out! At this point, I don't even care all that much about what the "truth" of the matter is, the SLIME BALL manner in which this rumor has been disseminated and the weasel like manner that those who have done it try to deny their own guilt in the issue sickens me. I was raised and honor that your word is your bond and have raised my children the same way, promise or no. If I told you I will perform it, I will perform it. If I don't KNOW something to be true, I do not repeat it. Even if it is true, I still may not repeat it if it will not be beneficial to anyone. Too bad for some people it seems that code of honor does not exist.
This is all very heartwarming to hear and I'm sure it makes you feel great about yourself to come out with such crap. Don't call me a slime ball or a weasel. I'm neither.Seriously. I love how all of these people who drop this crap provide no proof of the details of their sordid tales and then act as if the have no culpability in starting or keeping this rumor alive. Kind of like me saying I heard my neighbor is a pedophile. I am not saying he is, it is just what I have heard. Oh, no, no, I do not have any proof, I am just saying what I was told and trying to be honest about it. Don't expect me to be held accountable for this, because I did not say it was true, I am simply telling you what I heard. BULL****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are worried about "honestly" or "culpability" (or even freaking decency for that matter) keep you mouth shut until you have something to back it up. But do not come in here playing all innocent with "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" and not expect to be accountable. What a damn cop out! At this point, I don't even care all that much about what the "truth" of the matter is, the SLIME BALL manner in which this rumor has been disseminated and the weasel like manner that those who have done it try to deny their own guilt in the issue sickens me. I was raised and honor that your word is your bond and have raised my children the same way, promise or no. If I told you I will perform it, I will perform it. If I don't KNOW something to be true, I do not repeat it. Even if it is true, I still may not repeat it if it will not be beneficial to anyone. Too bad for some people it seems that code of honor does not exist.
We are not talking about supplements that contain miniscule traces of other compounds (say less than 1% contamination due to an unfinished reaction or something).LMAO:lol:, you bring up lable claims? Im Curious, and i would like to hear Mr. Arnold answer this, has he never sold a supplement that has been tainted? or are you saying this? I would choose my words carefully...
Even if I had seen the mass spec data I would still be none the wiser. I have little to no understanding of how to read them. PA, on the other hand, has decades of experience at the GCMS.I think if the shoe were on the other foot (Taurus or some other company claiming your products were inaccurate) you might believe otherwise about the need for proof.Without proof reps and owners can just go around all day talking about the fact that competitors products don't have in them what they say they have.
I don't have a dog in this fight, and none of it effects my bottom line at all. But you're literally telling other people that the Taurus product is not what they say it is and then saying you haven't seen the test results....doesn't seem very fair to me.
I didn't call any one anything. Those terms were my descriptors for the behavior I was observing. Read it again if you need to. If you think they apply to you personally, that is not my problem, that is yours.This is all very heartwarming to hear and I'm sure it makes you feel great about yourself to come out with such crap. Don't call me a slime ball or a weasel. I'm neither.
I don't need to read anything again. The inference was obvious. I'm sorry you seem to think I lack "honour", but at least I'm not backhandedly insulting people I know nothing about.I didn't call any one anything. Those terms were my descriptors for the behavior I was observing. Read it again if you need to. If you think they apply to you personally, that is not my problem, that is yours.
That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. At this juncture, you have no credibility and your perspective about me is irrelevant to me. You are not going to rattle me that easily. Have a great day Henry.I don't need to read anything again. The inference was obvious. I'm sorry you seem to think I lack "honour", but at least I'm not backhandedly insulting people I know nothing about.
I have no credibility? I think a lot of people would disagree with that view. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion though.That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. At this juncture, you have no credibility and your perspective about me is irrelevant to me. You are not going to rattle me that easily. Have a great day Henry.
You are of course ignoring the public interest aspect of this.If I don't KNOW something to be true, I do not repeat it. Even if it is true, I still may not repeat it if it will not be beneficial to anyone. Too bad for some people it seems that code of honor does not exist.
Funny how PA brought this up, and showed zero evidence on this to be true.. but yet you sit here and accuse us and everyone else that were ignoring public interest.You are of course ignoring the public interest aspect of this.
I wouldn't say we were close. I doubt we've ever been on the same continent.So you and PA are obviously close, when are you going to show us this report?
I said that to taman6886 when he was saying I was "dishonourable" for bringing the matter up....yet you sit here and accuse us and everyone else that were ignoring public interest.
It's not that easy to separate motives (you as both a consumer and rep), as you guys have been pointing out (PA as both tester and competitor).you brought it to the public, back it up and I'm saying this as a consumer.
hardly the first time PA made something that contained stuff other then what was on the label... oh wait I forgot he is the watchdog and would NEVER do something like that right.. :smashfreakB:I wouldn't say we were close. I doubt we've ever been on the same continent.
I said that to taman6886 when he was saying I was "dishonourable" for bringing the matter up.
It's not that easy to separate motives (you as both a consumer and rep), as you guys have been pointing out (PA as both tester and competitor).
Surely the pressure should be on the manufacturer of the product to demonstrate that it contains what it says it does. This would hardly be the first time a bodybuilding product was found to contain something other than what is on the label.
Seriously, don't church up your role here...were board reps, who can be replaced by the push of a keyboard button. do you honestly think any of the profits that TN makes goes into my pockets? LMAO..bottom line is you brought this up, so back it up. This is clearly what taman was saying, your spitting out venom on something that you know or haven't seen any bit of truth on, and yet your not even close to PA (As you said) but yet, you sit here and commend yourself for....Stellar performance my friend, and this is what builds you a stellar reputation you say? again I just pissed all over my leg!I wouldn't say we were close. I doubt we've ever been on the same continent.
I said that to taman6886 when he was saying I was "dishonourable" for bringing the matter up.
It's not that easy to separate motives (you as both a consumer and rep), as you guys have been pointing out (PA as both tester and competitor).
Surely the pressure should be on the manufacturer of the product to demonstrate that it contains what it says it does. This would hardly be the first time a bodybuilding product was found to contain something other than what is on the label.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I believe I covered this topic when I said:hardly the first time PA made something that contained stuff other then what was on the label... oh wait I forgot he is the watchdog and would NEVER do something like that right.. :smashfreakB:
You'll note that this was the same distracting technique that NTBM/whatever the "sister company" is called tried when confronted with evidence that their Monsterdrol XT wasn't what they said it was. A technique that failed then and made them look very stupid in their "**** you PA thread" (since deleted), and will fail again if you insist on pushing the subject here.We are not talking about supplements that contain miniscule traces of other compounds (say less than 1% contamination due to an unfinished reaction or something).
We are talking about a product that does not contain the ingredients it says it does.
This would appear to be some kind of personal insult, so I'll just pretend you didn't say it and instead kept your dignity intact.Seriously, don't church up your role here...were board reps, who can be replaced by the push of a keyboard button. do you honestly think any of the profits that TN makes goes into my pockets? LMAO..bottom line is you brought this up, so back it up. This is clearly what taman was saying, your spitting out venom on something that you know or haven't seen any bit of truth on, and yet your not even close to PA (As you said) but yet, you sit here and commend yourself for....Stellar performance my friend, and this is what builds you a stellar reputation you say? again I just pissed all over my leg!
Do you agree with anything im writting? serioulsy...... a Lifter to Henry Question?This would appear to be some kind of personal insult, so I'll just pretend you didn't say it and instead kept your dignity intact.
I agree that your rep benefits aren't directly linked to TN profits. I think that's about all I can agree with.Do you agree with anything im writting? serioulsy...... a Lifter to Henry Question?
Henry r you serious?I agree that your rep benefits aren't directly linked to TN profits. I think that's about all I can agree with.
I'm not spitting venom. The rest of your diatribe seems to be an attempt to twist my words to present me in a bad light.
In the posts in this thread? Yeah.Henry r you serious?
im speechless..............:roll:In the posts in this thread? Yeah.
Hopefully that means you'll stop posting in here soon.im speechless..............:roll:
I'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!Hopefully that means you'll stop posting in here soon.
It seems to have been goingI'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!
Orly?
Yarly.
Rly?
For a while now.
This largely ignores what I said though. If people are going around saying a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does then proof is mandatory. Otherwise what is to stop owners/reps from saying this about all their competitors products? "Anabeta isn't what PES says it is, Titanium isn't what Athletix says it is, Flashover isn't what Omega says it is, etc." It would be generally chaos.Even if I had seen the mass spec data I would still be none the wiser. I have little to no understanding of how to read them. PA, on the other hand, has decades of experience at the GCMS.
I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.4) Then you try to insult my intelligence by mocking the way I spelled "honour" which is laughable to me in that although no longer used in modern English, it is more than acceptable in olde English and there by technically correct.
You're right about this. I've made the same distinction in the past and had the recipient not understand the difference. It's more difficult to disseminate when you're on the receiving end.3) I try to clarify that I was describing the behavior and not you personally and you "read between the lines" as you put it, being all offended. (Let me be perfectly clear, I some times describe my own behavior as being "*******ish" because it can be. Does that mean I think I am an *******? Nope, just my behavior can be. In that sense, I most certainly describe some one else as behaving like a slime ball and being weasel like and not be calling them a weasel or slime ball per se.
I've addressed them as best I can given the constraints upon me. I would argue that the other posters have been the ones engaged in misdirection, and that mine have been clarifying.Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.
LOL, nice! A sense of Humor! Good to see man! And now I feel compelled to ask 2 questions. 1) Is it Henry the 5th then? and 2) Do you spell color (American version) COLOUR? Just curious, and yes I am being an ass! BTW, only people from the South and Texas use "Y'all". It is a very regional term, just FYI.I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.
Very good post BDCC!As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.
Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?
As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.
Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?
Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
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