First Cycle: Epistane

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I am 28 years old, 5'9 205, and my body fat % is kinda high (i have a belly). I have worked out on and off for 6 years.... mostly off though =/

I have been hitting the gym hard for the past 2 months and have obviously seen great strength results. But i want to start and Oxodrol Pro (epistane) cycle here shortly. Everyone always suggests to wait till you have reached your full genetic potential before taking anything... but lets be honest... that would mean no one would do anything before the age of 30.. and that just isnt really the case. So aside from not being at my genetic potential, i feel being 28 is a great time to start my first cycle.

I have researched the hell out of this and would just like some friendly advice and helpful tips on cycling/eating/etc.

I already know that eating clean is the difference between adding 5 pounds... or 15 pounds. But i am always looking for good new nutrition plans, so if anyone has any suggestions, i am all ears.

i will be running this cycle for 3 weeks... since i have heard the 4th week on epistane is kinda worthless.

Oxodrol Pro 20/30/30
Anabolic Pump
xceed
xtend
Adams Now Multi
Hawthorn Berry
Fish Oil
Milk Thistle
Red Yeast Rice
Saw Palmetto
COQ-10
Retain
Whey Protein

PCT (3 weeks)
Novedex xt
Anabolic Pump
Adams Now Multi
Hawthorn Berry
Fish Oil
Milk Thistle
Red Yeast Rice
Saw Palmetto
COQ-10
Whey Protein

I was thinking of lifting 3 on and 1 off for the full 6 weeks of the cycle. Taking epistane 7 days a week... even on off days. Is this correct?

I know there are plenty of threads already going on this stuff... i guess i just wanted my own/first post to get some info from the pro's on this site =)

Nice to meet all of you :dl:
 
LeeN

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It is highly recommended to have a SERM on hand just in case.

Many people strongly recommended it to me, but a few seem to be fine with an OTC mix.

I will be starting my first Havoc cycle next week as well, but life has taught me that it is better to be safe than sorry. I had my nolva ordered before I picked out which "flavor" of Epithio to use.


LeeN
 
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It is highly recommended to have a SERM on hand just in case.

Many people strongly recommended it to me, but a few seem to be fine with an OTC mix.

I will be starting my first Havoc cycle next week as well, but life has taught me that it is better to be safe than sorry. I had my nolva ordered before I picked out which "flavor" of Epithio to use.


LeeN

Yeah everyone is saying to be safe and have Nolva on hand.. problem is i have looked around and its a persciption thing... and i obviously cant ask where to get it.... and people just dont hand that info out to newbs like me =)

my plan... if needed... i have medical coverage, i would prob just go to the doctor.. since epistane isnt an illegal steroid... tell her what i was taking... and tell her i needed nolva... cant see why she wouldnt perscribe it.... am i wrong?

thank you for the response =)
 
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Yeah everyone is saying to be safe and have Nolva on hand.. problem is i have looked around and its a persciption thing... and i obviously cant ask where to get it.... and people just dont hand that info out to newbs like me =)

my plan... if needed... i have medical coverage, i would prob just go to the doctor.. since epistane isnt an illegal steroid... tell her what i was taking... and tell her i needed nolva... cant see why she wouldnt perscribe it.... am i wrong?

thank you for the response =)
From one n00b to another n00b: before you ingest 1 pill of epi, have a SERM on hand.

Remember that google is your friend.

Research chemicals/ ancilliaries such as Liquinolva and LiquiClom are the very same thing and no prescription is needed as long as you use it for research.

About the M.D. thing, I have no idea how a physician would respond to that question.

LeeN
 
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From one n00b to another n00b: before you ingest 1 pill of epi, have a SERM on hand.

Remember that google is your friend.

Research chemicals/ ancilliaries such as Liquinolva and LiquiClom are the very same thing and no prescription is needed as long as you use it for research.

About the M.D. thing, I have no idea how a physician would respond to that question.

LeeN

Thanks a ton LeeN!!!
 
LeeN

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No prob broseph:cheers:

hope that clears some things up.

LeeN
 
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yes.. i will do some research tomorrow after work.

anyone else have any suggestions that they feel are worth mentioning... i am all ears at this point.

-thanks in advance
 
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I can see most people are probably overlooking this thread since they have probably seen thousands like this before... but honestly guys.. anything would help and be much appreciated.

like i said... just looking for the best way to do things on this cycle. ex.

4-5 exercises for each muscle group.... 3 sets of 10 each.... is that good? or should i be doing sets of 6 or 8? more or less exercises etc.

thanks:clean:
 
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-- also... since my body fat (belly) is much higher than i would like....

is it safe to say that there is no such thing as too much cardio?

as long as i eat good quiality/clean foods?

this is the part i am most unclear on....thanks
 

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What are your goals? Lose the belly? Lean bulk? Strength? Cut?
 
nosnmiveins

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i think you'll get solid results (whatever it is u want), with clean food, 3 days of cardio a week, 3-4 exercises for each group, 8-12 reps for 3 sets
 

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i think you'll get solid results (whatever it is u want), with clean food, 3 days of cardio a week, 3-4 exercises for each group, 8-12 reps for 3 sets
Great advice. I think he could even see results with cardio 2x's a week and only 2-3 exercises per muscle. I would stick with the 8-12 reps like he suggested.
 
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yes my goal is to add as much lean muschle as i can... while trying to lose the body fat. I know its usually either bulking or cutting... but i think just by adding more muscle i will lose some of the fat.


my meal plan(though incomplete) is looking like this

Meal 1
Whole Grain cereal or oatmeal with shake

Meal 2
Chicken breast and veggies.. may add a slice of whole grain wheat bread

Meal 3
Chicken breast and veggies.. may add a slice of whole grain wheat bread


Meal 4 Pre Workout
Shake and Carbs(unsure what to put here)

Meal 5 Post Workout
Shake and Carbs(unsure what to put here)

Meal 6
1.5 Cup Cottage Cheese


...lol as you can see... i think i need some serious help with my diet... i have read that brown rice is a good carb to eat.

... my cycle is 3 weeks... then i will pct for 3 weeks.... does that mean i have to eat like this for 6 weeks?

i know its boring to eat nothing but chicken... but i am not really concerned with the taste (in moderation =) but more of fuel to get my body back into shape.

i would also like to add i will be taking my shakes with 1% or 2% milk =)

so what you guys think?
 

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i would save the pre wo shake to drink before bed but only if its a protein shake not if its somethin like NO XPLODE. cottage cheese is the best thing for you before bed. I would replace the pre wo shake with BCAA pills but like i said only if it is a protein shake.
 

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I don't recall reading that the fourth week of Epi is worthless...I do recall reading that many don't see a lot results until after two weeks though. To each their own though, b/c I does sound like you've been researching.

I also couldn't help but notice that many of your support supps are included in Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations (or Life Support).

Servings Per Container60
2 Servings Provide:

(All Extracts Are Standardized)
Red Yeast Rice 1200mg
NAC 1200mg
Silymarin (Milk Thistle Extract) 1000mg
Hawthorn Berry 1000mg
Saw Palmetto 300mg
Nettle Root 250mg
Celery Seed Extract 150mg
Idebenone 100mg (Analogue of CoQ10 that is not a pro oxidant)
Policosanol 20mg
I would consider saving the Xceed and Retain for pct. You shouldn't have too much of a problem with cortisol while you're ON cycle and the Xceed just won't be necessary.
 
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I don't recall reading that the fourth week of Epi is worthless...I do recall reading that many don't see a lot results until after two weeks though. To each their own though, b/c I does sound like you've been researching.

I also couldn't help but notice that many of your support supps are included in Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations (or Life Support).



I would consider saving the Xceed and Retain for pct. You shouldn't have too much of a problem with cortisol while you're ON cycle and the Xceed just won't be necessary.
thanks for the advice... and i do feel i have researched.... i didnt mean to sound like the 4th week was worthless... i have just read a lot of people saying in forums that the results are minimal if any... so esp since its my first cycle... i dont feel its necessary to do full 4 weeks.

as far as my support supps... yes i could have done the easier way and got your product.... and i probably will next time for convienence... but i already paid for the supps.. so i will use them first....

i do like your comment to save the xceed and retain for my pct.... i would like to hear others opinions on this as well....

once again, thanks a ton for the input... and let me know if i am missing anything:bb2:
 
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i would save the pre wo shake to drink before bed but only if its a protein shake not if its somethin like NO XPLODE. cottage cheese is the best thing for you before bed. I would replace the pre wo shake with BCAA pills but like i said only if it is a protein shake.
yes my preworkout shake was a protein shake.... so are you saying that cottage cheese ISNT the best thing for me and to drink the protein shake before bed instead.... or to do both?:burg:
 
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yes my preworkout shake was a protein shake.... so are you saying that cottage cheese ISNT the best thing for me and to drink the protein shake before bed instead.... or to do both?:burg:
I believe what he is trying to say is that you should make sure you are eating a protein with a slow absorbtion rate(Casein) before you go to sleep. Most cheeses are great for obtaining Casein.
 

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I believe what he is trying to say is that you should make sure you are eating a protein with a slow absorbtion rate(Casein) before you go to sleep. Most cheeses are great for obtaining Casein.
Exactly

Edit: about the protein shake you could take your pre w/o right before bed along with your cottage cheese or if your post work out shake is around bedtime bump the pre workout to around noon so your shakes will be like morning, noon, and around night. The casein (sp?) in the cottage cheese will be great for building muscle all night.
 
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Exactly

Edit: about the protein shake you could take your pre w/o right before bed along with your cottage cheese or if your post work out shake is around bedtime bump the pre workout to around noon so your shakes will be like morning, noon, and around night. The casein (sp?) in the cottage cheese will be great for building muscle all night.
I've been meaning to order some of ON's pure Casein. Thanks for reminding me!
 

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All sounds like pretty good advice, i'll see if i can add to it.. go for a higher protein intake than you normally would and restrict carbs and fats if your trying to drop bf%. when u do eat your carbs make them about 1-3 hours before workout and early in the day... even when you are doing your cardio your body is only going to use so much fat as energy generally 20% stored fat, 80% dietary carbs are used by your body.. if however u are very fit this will be more like 50/50... try to avoid carbs after say 6 or 7 in the evening as carbs store as fat if u don't use them. where as protein is used for building and your body will become much more efficient at using it while using this compound.
i don't know much about this particular product but i would suggest the people saying gains stopped after 3 weeks were trying to gain weight not lose it... i would run it for at least 4 weeks possibly up to 6 weeks depending on dosage and how much you've already punished your liver in the past.... also u need to evaluate your own side effects... 6 weeks might be too long i don't know....
from what i have read pct with havoc is debatable as it is relatively mild with mild shutdown..that said most people do it anyway and i would advise it just to be safe ... especially after 6 weeks. It is sugested that shutdown becomes more pronounced after 6 weeks. hope this helps... or even makes sense
 

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oh yeah protein after weights traing not before... carbs for energy protein for muscle repair ;)
 
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should my diet remain the same during my cycle and pct... i am assuming yes...?
 

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should my diet remain the same during my cycle and pct... i am assuming yes...?

Yehp all they way throughout. Even if your off you shouldnt neglect a good healthy diet. But when your off you can keep the cals and stuff around maintenance levels.
 
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... also i have read that some people only take the epistane on workout days... and some take it non stop for the full cycle.... i am planning on working out 5-6 days a week... my plan is to take them even on off days... what would be best?
 

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... also i have read that some people only take the epistane on workout days... and some take it non stop for the full cycle.... i am planning on working out 5-6 days a week... my plan is to take them even on off days... what would be best?

That would be a pulse and only in my mind beneficial if you workout three times a wk. If i was you i would dose 20/30/30/40. That seems to be good for the beginner.
 
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i do like your suggested dosage... problem is... u get 60 10 mg pills. so i would have to buy 2 boxes of oxodrol pro... and would have "left overs" from this cycle.

with people saying that the 4th week gets minimal results at best.... and this being my first cycle.. i just kinda figured i would do 3 weeks at

20/30/30.... and the last 2 days of week 3 i would do 40

money is kinda tight.... but if you really think its worth my ordering another box to get the best results... i could always do that.... thanks
 

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i do like your suggested dosage... problem is... u get 60 10 mg pills. so i would have to buy 2 boxes of oxodrol pro... and would have "left overs" from this cycle.

with people saying that the 4th week gets minimal results at best.... and this being my first cycle.. i just kinda figured i would do 3 weeks at

20/30/30.... and the last 2 days of week 3 i would do 40

money is kinda tight.... but if you really think its worth my ordering another box to get the best results... i could always do that.... thanks
hmm...You jus gotta play with the numbers and see how stuff feels. Like say if on the first wk at 20 u felt good results then run twenty till you think ur body needs 30 even if its in the middle of wk two. then dose from there. See if you could get close to four weeks. but i mean its not like you wont see good results from three weeks. lol im like you i like to save as much money as possible.
 
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after doing some grocery shopping for good clean foods...i couldnt help but notice everything having a high sodium content.... is too much sodium bad during a cycle... i mean i figure its better than fat etc.... what about caffiene?:bruce1:
 

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Yeh it would be best to stay away from high sodium considering epi has a chance to raise blood pressure.
 

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as far as i know soduim is responsible for water retension, so yes better than fat. still not the best though...if your not too keen on spending heaps of dosh on one cycle like most of us aren't, mybe just use smaller dosages for longer to retain muscle while in calorie deficient and incorporating lots of cardio... then when your happy with your bf % (and allowing enough time in between cycles) do another cycle with lean mass gains in mind.... i don't think your going to have enough product to achieve both goals in the same short cycle..... might be a better option to concentrate on one goal at a time spread out over a longer time frame... just a suggestion
 
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I'm now busy with my first cycle on avoc (pulsing), and you will notice that when you increase your dose,you will automatically need to increae your carbs. :)
I've you don't, you feel crap.

I know just increased my Havoc dose from 30mg to 40mg (I'm pulsing, so only tale on 3 times in the week the havoc), and i really needed to increase my carbs..

but you will feel automatically.. :)
 
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Hey
I'm getting ready to start this as well
Heres what my stacks looks like.

Cycle:
Oxodrol Pro
Propadrol
Life Support
Taurine
AZO cranberry pills

PCT
Isatest
Liver LOnger
6 OXO Extreme 2 bottles
Life Support??

So what do you think????
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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I suggest getting a SERM, especially for your first cycle. That's what I will eventually be doing for mine since it'll be my first as well. I'll be running Epidrol, which is a clone of Epistane. Just in case you didn't know. I've just heard that Epidrol and Havoc are much more effective than Epistane itself.

Instead of spending all of your money on all of those different supplements for on-cycle and PCT, why don't you just get AI's Cycle Support and Post Cycle Support?
 
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I thought about running Epi/Prop together and figured there'd be no problems since Epi is a dry compound and Prop is considered wet. I went against this though, because I heard that Prop can very easily cause gyno.

This will be my stack when I get around to it:

Epidrol
Jungle Warfare
Cycle Support
Animal Pak
Uni-Liver
Fish Oil

PCT will consist of:

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate)
Post Cycle Support
Diesel Test Hardcore
DHEA

Ejaculoid and Aspire Lite for fun times. :D

Hey
I'm getting ready to start this as well
Heres what my stacks looks like.

Cycle:
Oxodrol Pro
Propadrol
Life Support
Taurine
AZO cranberry pills

PCT
Isatest
Liver LOnger
6 OXO Extreme 2 bottles
Life Support??

So what do you think????
 
DMAC10

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Thanks
I'll have to check into those.

I hadn't heard or read about Prop caused gyno.
I'll have to do some more research on that.
 
LeeN

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I thought about running Epi/Prop together and figured there'd be no problems since Epi is a dry compound and Prop is considered wet. I went against this though, because I heard that Prop can very easily cause gyno.

This will be my stack when I get around to it:

Epidrol
Jungle Warfare
Cycle Support
Animal Pak
Uni-Liver
Fish Oil

PCT will consist of:

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate)
Post Cycle Support
Diesel Test Hardcore
DHEA

Ejaculoid and Aspire Lite for fun times. :D
Why the DTH and PCS together?
 
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sub'd. I plan on running this late fall... let's see a nice log here!!
 
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PCS for general health and an extra precaution. DTH to help keep the 'boys' big and bold. haha
I was really tempted to do both as well, but only opted for the PCS. So, you don't think it is over doing it with the DTH in there as well?

LeeN
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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I heard that it'll help the boys stay big and juicy. Like, really big and very juicy. I wouldn't say that it's overkill. Some individuals take PCS for general well-being, and I know that DTH would give an extra boost in the testosterone and sex drive department, even though most people experience nothing but a hyperactive sex drive while on either Epi, JW, or both.

I was really tempted to do both as well, but only opted for the PCS. So, you don't think it is over doing it with the DTH in there as well?

LeeN
 
papapumpsd

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Good thread. I'll be doing Epistane in a month or so. For PCT, I have Toremifene so I'll use that instead of Tamox. Also, I have used 6-oxo in the past and it was great. I have read that an anti-cortisol supp is recommended too. I'll have to look into that more.

I will be running Cycle Support throughout the cycle, including PCT for sure.

Intended Epi dose: (week): (mgs); (1): (20), (2): (30), (3): (40), (4): (40).
 

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What's up PapapumpSD! The cortisol blocker won't be necessary, but is nice to add in the second or third week of pct.

I see you guys are talking a lot about various Anabolic Innovations products. I just want to point out that there's still coupon code for any of our products at Nutraplanet. It's in my sig, 74HSN.

Thanks for all of your support and feel free to PM me with any questions you have.
 

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cort blocker

A cort blocker wont be necassary however, if you workout for more than an hour it would be a nice addition. I read a study somewhere that harmful cort levels start to really rise after one hour of intense workouts. But imho i dont think its one of those things you feel you must have.
 
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Extending my cycle to 4 weeks

i am thinking of ordering a second box of oxodrol pro and splitting it down the middle with a friend of mine. that would put me at 90 10mg pills... i would take them at:


20/30/(30-40)/40

the 3rd week would be 1day at 30 and 6days at 40


14+21+(3+24)+28=90


does that sound better than my original plan?
 

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yeh a 20/30/30/40 seems to be the best for someones first cycle.
 

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well aside from the first day of week 3.... its more like a

20/30/40/40 cycle
I would go based on feel. If you feel like you need to bump to fourty on wk three then do it. But if you are seein great results on 30 why not keep the sides to a minimal? Know what im sayin?
 
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yeah kinda... i guess i will just have to wait till i get there to know for sure..... when trying to figure out if i need to bump up... what are some of the signs i should be looking for... lack of gains? i mean we are talking about a matter of days... not sure how much i will be able to tell...

any tips?
 

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