[Messenger]

To add to the prolactin discussion, what about SAM-e during and post-cycle? It has been shown to have positive effects on prolactin and dopamine levels, helps with hepatoxicity and can elevate mood. Plus methyl donors help with various reactions that can affect performance.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by Messenger

To add to the prolactin discussion, what about SAM-e during and post-cycle? It has been shown to have positive effects on prolactin and dopamine levels, helps with hepatoxicity and can elevate mood. Plus methyl donors help with various reactions that can affect performance.

I'm taking 400mg/day. It's possible that I didn't have that on my "plan" post because I think I might have added it in after I had started already

However, I have to admit that my line of thinking was more in terms of liver protection and mood and I was unaware of s-adenyl's affect on prolactin

[hman85]

Originally Posted by Irish Cannon

I tend to deny everything unless it's one of my few friends that trains hard and is solid on their diet. Some people really just can't handle the truth.

Very Very true Cannon. Some if they found just don't understand and would think your some kind of sauce head and thats all you do, but they don't even realize the dedication and time we put into training and dieting

[Messenger]

My mistake. I just looked again and it is listed in your post-cycle supplements.

I would like to point out that any info I pass along here is just from what I have read online; I am not trained in biochem or endocrinology and I am not presenting it as absolute fact. I try to only refer to reputable info that is scientifically referenced.

With that said, here is an interesting abstract:

J Psychiatry Res 1990;24(2):177-84

Neuroendocrine effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine, a novel putative
antidepressant.

Fava M, Rosenbaum JF, MacLaughlin R, Falk WE, Pollack MH, Cohen LS, Jones L,
Pill L

Clinical Psychopharmacology Unit, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard
Medical School, Boston 02114.

S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe), a putative antidepressant, is a naturally
occurring substance whose mechanism of action is still a matter of speculation.
It has been recently postulated that SAMe may increase the dopaminergic tone in
depressed patients. Since dopamine inhibits both thyrotropin (TSH) and
prolactin secretion, we investigated the effects of treatment with SAMe on the
TSH and prolactin response to thyrotropin-releasing-hormone (TRH) stimulation
in 7 depressed outpatient women (mean age: 46.1 +/- 7.2 years) and 10 depressed
outpatient men (mean age: 38.0 +/- 10.0 years) participating in a six-week open
study of oral SAMe in the treatment of major depression. At the end of the
study, there was a significant reduction after treatment with SAMe in the
response of both prolactin and TSH to TRH stimulation in the group of depressed
men compared to pre-treatment values. On the other hand, in the group of
depressed women, the posttreatment prolactin response to TRH did not appear to
change when compared to pre-treatment and the TSH response to TRH challenge
tended even to augment slightly after treatment with SAMe. Our results, at
least in depressed men, seem to support the hypothesis of a stimulating effect
of SAMe on the dopaminergic system.

While this deals with a different population than we may be addressing here, it shows that SAM-e may affect prolactin levels through its positive actions on dopamine. The increase in dopamine should also benefit libido as previously discussed in this thread. Also some of the emotional effects of steroid cycles are probably linked to this pathway anyway, so it might be even more relevant.

Also for anyone REALLY interested in neurotransmitters, check out this link: http://www.umsha.ac.ir/Vice%20Chance...20Function.pdf

Sorry if this has gotten off topic.

[celc5]

Messenger, this is actually the same SamE (see how clever phera makes me ) study my pharmacist printed out for me when I discussed SamE with him a few months ago. Good find bro!

Day 16

A bit of lethargy is starting to set in. It's not debilitating, it just makes my aass feel too heavy to get up out of a chair. This has not affected my lifting whatsoever, but it has made light cardio very burdensome.

My chest and lats seem to be progressing the most quickly to this point which I am very happy with. My shoulders and arms are looking a little fuller, although they are typically weaker points for me. Quads, calves, and traps are growing like crazy although these are typically very very strong parts for me that grow even with less emphasis. I actually dropped shrugs from my shoulder routine because my neck was disappearing

I did decide that 40mg was the right dosage for me rather than staying at 30. I appreciate everyone's opinions and ALL of them were strongly considered in making this decision.

My thought process was this: If I'm going to run a cycle, I want to put EVERYTHING into it and not sell myself short. I believe that I'm prepared to handle whatever sides show up, although I still expect minimal sides at this dosage. My entire life is dedicated to eating, sleeping, and training... so going all out with the supplement follows suite.

[pistonpump]

40mg a day it is!

[EctoPower]

Originally Posted by celc5

I actually dropped shrugs from my shoulder routine because my neck was disappearing

That line made me smile!

By the way Celc, congrats on naming your log after a Pink Floyd song. Bonus points for you!

What is your plan of attack for the lethargy? Do you have stims on hand or are you planning on getting some? Curious to see if you can fend that off successfully.

[hman85]

Sounds like your having great progress, this is making me very excited about my upcoming first run of PP.

[celc5]

Piston, if I feel like things go haywire because of the dosage, I'd be sure to back off. I appreciate all of your feedback and hope that you continue to chime in often

Hman, this stuff is SMOOTH to this point. IMO it has less sides and is less potent than the CEL halo clone... again, to THIS point. When it's all said and done, I expect this to be a tad more suppressive than halo. We'll see how this story unfolds.

Ecto, I'm actually referencing a Rush bootleg called "Careful with that axe, Alex" which I'd bet is a reference to the said Pink Floyd song Btw, Alex is Alex Lifeson, the guitarist for Rush, which is Canada's second best contribution to the world after neoborn

Also, here's the no BS explanation behind my strong points... body parts that have not been injured honestly don't reach plateau for me. I'd be able to shrug, squat, and deadlift in excess of 500 for reasonable reps if I did them on a regular basis, without hormones mind you. But, now that my personal focus has shifted from power and ego over to body composition, having poor balance is no longer productive. So, out go the shrugs for now.

Re: lethargy, stims are out during this cycle. I'm guessing that the eratic sleep patterns from last week had something to do with the stims. I had some crazy chest pounding nights with anxiety but ONLY when I used a morning stim and/or a preworkout stim. My instinct was to "blame" the phera after all the controversy concerning BP and heart enlargement BLAH BLAH BLAH... ha! no stims, no issues. Btw, to anyone keeping score, resting heart rate has only went up about 5mm systolic since the start of the cycle. Negligible IMO.

So, I've been using random non-stim supps that have beta alanine, occasionally some caffeine early in the day at work, and I'm just gonna man up and not be a puss.

[angelo212]

Originally Posted by celc5

FINAL REVIEW and SUMMARY will be in POST #2

Supplement Plan

Pheraplex 20-40mg for 3-5 weeks

Support Supplements of Note

Hawthorne Berry
Taurine
B6
*Liver, BP, cholesterol preloaded for 10 days
*Stims and Sleep Aids as needed

Split

8-12 reps

M: Lats/Core/Calves
T: Quads/Forearms
W: Legs/Core/Calves
Th: Off
F: Deads, Back, Bis
S: Chest, Tris, Shoulders
S: Off

Goals

Lean Bulk: 8-10 pounds without increase in bf%

Strength is not a major priority. TUT techniques will be employed when the weight "feels" light. I have a plethora of minor injuries and I don't ever want them to be major injuries.

Propensity for Sides

My hairline has been thinning in the front for a few years now. I'm fully prepared to get out the clippers or the razor if need be. I am using Nizarol-AD OTC shampoo 3-4 times per week.

I am a cranky little biitch. I'm high energy and annoying. I'll do my best to have a ton of self-awareness to make sure these attributes aren't magnified and interfere with my family, social, or professional life.

I've been blessed with very clear skin and I never have acne or bacne. That being said, I get BOTH every time I run anything that effects my hormones. I have a ton of girly face washes, creams, and all that stuff that chicks use to keep my face clear.

My libido/drive seems to be easily affected by hormonal supplementation. Luckily, it's never been to the point that I've had an embarrassing situation. I have an arsenal of libido enhancers should any issues arise (or NOT rise )

I should also note that I had some pretty irritating back pumps in the 3rd and 4th week of a halo cycle. I plan to address that with 2 gallons of water per day and 2g taurine 2x/day.

Diet

300/300/50
Shooting for 350g protein as often as possible (this is something I need to work on as I believe I'm a hard gainer, otherwise known as a whimpy eater)

Post Cycle Plan

Torem
Formestane/trione TD combo
Lean Extreme
ZMA
Activate Extreme
*will consider creatine, beta alanine, SamE when the time comes

Post Cycle Training will be a pre-determined HST routine to avoid overtraining while still forcing progressive loads.

Supplement History

ALRI Stack
H-drol/Eform Cycle
NP NHA Stack

Most Effective Supplements to this point
Hdrol, Eform, TRAC Extreme NO
I fully expect to add phera to this list

Great planning. This was done with alot of thought. You have everything in here and then some. Should be a great cycle.

[angelo212]

Originally Posted by ReaperX

I think Dr. Dana Hauser stated that in order for taurine to be effective for back pumps, a minimum of 10g/ED should be taken.

He said 5 to 7 grams in a post at DA going back many months ago.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by angelo212

He said 5 to 7 grams in a post at DA going back many months ago.

Angelo, thanks for the compliment on the plan. I planned hardcore for about 2 months for this cycle. I had the plan double, triple, and quadruple checked by those who are MUCH more experienced than me. I talk the talk sometimes, but this is only my second cycle.

Actually, rather than speculate on what someone else may or may not have recommended, feel free to contribute your own personal preference for taurine dosages.

[hman85]

Originally Posted by celc5

Hman, this stuff is SMOOTH to this point. IMO it has less sides and is less potent than the CEL halo clone... again, to THIS point. When it's all said and done, I expect this to be a tad more suppressive than halo. We'll see how this story unfolds.

Hmmm well from what i have heard pp really starts to kick in about week 3 so we will see how it goes. This is your beginning of your 3rd week, correct?

[thundergod]

hey celc5--- I thought you told me that you didn't get much out of activate extreme? I see you have it on your post cycle plan. I also see the form/trione combo. That I love!! I'm post cycle right now after a 3 week superdrol run that was fantastic at 30 mg. per day. I'm also taking the activate, ZMA, icariin, resveratrol and a few other goodies. I'm actually getting stronger in PCT. I have a suggestion on the stim issue. Try some B-12, fruit and a little honey pre-workout. It will help a little!! Have a great cycle celc5. My next run will be phera-plex as well at 30 mg. per day the whole 4 weeks.