Alright! about to start a new cycle on T1 PRO
- 01-07-2003, 02:55 PM
Your routine looks good except ive discoved that i think very low reps are just not cutting it for me. I want maximum hypertrophy and according to my poll in the excercise forum low rests, higher reps is the key. I think for only certain people does lower reps work. I believe low reps don't work for me. I believe slightly higher reps work for me better for muscle growth. ALso long rests are a joke for me too as far as muscle growth. THis upcoming cycle im doing the 12-8 rep range for 4 work sets on all the compounds and isolations, resting 60-90 seconds(90-120 seconds on squats and stiff legs) and doing fast tempo. Ive found out that doing slow tempo is also a joke and that a controlled movement is all that is necessary. As for skull crushers ive heard they are hard on the elbows so im gonna avoid them.
I can do 4 workouts worth of volume at long rests in only 3 workouts because of me cutting the rest times a lot EVEN with adding in extra work at the end. Ive decided that im gonna do it similiar to week 25 of AE's proram except all rests will be 60-90 seconds, NO BURNOUTS, NO SUPESETS, ALL isolation and work sets will be in 8-12 rep range and at end of chest workout im gonna do 3 sets of bent over rows
3 sets of hammer curls and 2 sets of wrist curls and extensions each with dumbells.
After my back workout for session 3 im gonna do incline bench press with barbell for 3 sets, tricep kickbacks with dumbells for 3 sets, and front raises for 3 sets
What do you think??? look at your week 25 do you think that might be overdoing it on session 3??? Keep in mind only 3 days later ill be doing a FULL chest/tri/shoulder workout.
- 01-07-2003, 04:18 PM
Session 3 takes place on thursday, while Session 1 takes place on Monday; so when on T1-pro and T4 I think its plenty of space... i don't feel worn out; in fact I think i COULD bump session 3 to a full blown chest day if i wanted to
as for low reps; yeah they don't work for me too well either... thats why i keep the main compound exercises at 4-6 reps (like a flat bench and incline bench)...
but then on flyes I up the rep range to 6-8 and lower the rest period down by a minute... this causes hypertrophy...
and I may be going for strength more than you; I'd give up a bit of total weight gain if it meant i could get some more power
- 01-07-2003, 05:29 PM
My strength was so bad when i first went in the gym 11 months ago it was embarrassing. But now even though im stronger and although it is still embarrassing what i lift i would rather sacrifice strength now at this point for extra muscle gains, after all people are more impressed with your physique, then what your lifting, especially if you been packing on weight over the months and it becomes noticeable.
Ill increase the kickbacks and front raises after my back workout to 4 sets instead of 3 sets. I figure that since you only have 4 days of rest and can do all that work i can get away with that much tricep,shoulder, chest workout for 3 days. The only reason why i can't go as overboard is because ill be mainly focusing on my back that day and i have to keep the workout at 75 minutes or less.
ALSO VERY IMPORTANT another thing i didn't like about low reps(below 8) is that it overtrained my nervous system way too much. I was always wonering why many guys on gear can train such high volume but with AE'S burnout sets and low reps i was overtraining my nervous system which allowed me to not increase the frequency to what i needed. Gear won't help the nervous system as much as it helps you increase muscle recovery, thats why on gear its best to use higher reps and lower rests so you don't allow the nervous system to be stimulated too much with such igh volume.
01-07-2003, 09:05 PM
you mean higher weight right
higher volume i think is a term relative to increasing reps, sets, or weight... or decreasing your rest periods inbetween sets...
01-08-2003, 12:16 AM
Yep thats what i mean. HIghe reps, less rest, and maybe more sets at lower weight.
In fact ill say this, your wasting valuable androgens if you do anything less then 8reps on cycle since your stimulating the centra nervous system too much and hence can't use as much volume which is the biggest advantage to androgens. Keep reps at 12-8 in pyramid scheme and see how fast you can recover then, i bet you could workout 5 days a week with 1 days extra worth of workouts and still recover just as fast as before OR you could simply reduce rest time dramatically for all 4 days so your doing another days worth of workouts when you add in more excercises or sets due to the workout being done faster. I know par deus said on 2/3 dosing of ONE+ he freaking did 2 1 hour splits a day for like 5 or 6 days a week, maning he was working out 10-12 hours a week on less then hardcore dosing. I believe half the reason is good genetics but the other half was he wasprobably doing 10-12 rep range. Also im thinking burnout and supersets are a waste, i mean there is evidence that doing more then 2 sets is not very advantageouos, but if your doing the pyramid scheme doing 3+ sets works good. Thats why i won't be incorporating them on my next cycle unless i feel like its not packing a punch due to them being taken out.
01-08-2003, 01:16 AM
well the fact that my biceps started growing again BECAUSE i do TWO supersets that focus on them kinda points otherwise...
and remember i'm going for strength gains too; i want a decent physique and some power... some punkass comes up to me with an attitude; i wanna be able to lift him up and throw him 20 ft
a 8-12 rep range isn't gonna build strength; it causes hypertrophy and stimulates more Type IIA and Type I muscle fibers... I want Type IIB and Type IIA...my goal is to bench twice my own weight if its possible...
this is why i do low rep and high rep workouts...
I'd rather be 200 and bench 300 than be 185 like Anthony with his 5% bodyfat like he was and barely be able to press 200... i guess i'm trying to say
plus; i've gotten a good bit heavier than i ever was... so I'm pretty sure what I'm doing is working...
22lbs in 4 weeks is pretty damn good in my book
and if you think that the "studies" on crap about more than two sets not being advantageous is true; then i might have overestimated you... i'm doing 12 sets that directly and indirectly focus on the chest in isolation and compound exercises and my bench has jumped by 40-45lbs in 4 weeks... my shoulders i hit for 9 sets... my shoulder press has jumped by 50lbs... go read up on some articles on how many sets you should hit with various bodyparts... you'd be suprised...
01-08-2003, 03:31 PM
As for low reps I think it works for some people (like you) but for some its less effective. It all depends on your muscle fiber makeup. Dr squat made article about how every body part has differrent muscle composition and that some can respond to higher reps more frequency and some to lower reps less frequency. Chances are OVERALL average of all bodyparts is gonna lean towards one or the other since everyone has different makeups for each bodypart. Most tend to be evenly 1 and 11B.
Im not disagreeing with you on the sets. What i meant was that more then 2-3 sets is ALMOST just as stimulating as 2-3 sets PER EXCECISE PER WORKOUT. Thats what i should have said. On androgens i believe its very advantageous to hit multiple excercises to stimulate the muscle in different ways and also to hit it more then once a week and to do higher reps to not overtrain the nervous system.
Plus low rep training is hard on my back and knees with squats.
01-08-2003, 04:36 PM
The squats don't bother my knees unless i go past parallel... i only do past parallel with light weight because of this problem...
as for strength-building; its nearly been proven that lower reps build strength... higher reps do build size however; which if this is what you're going for; then by all means...
and i guess i misunderstood about the whole sets thing... this workout is specifically for me on androgens
Off androgens I'll be cutting back to 3 days a week and many less exercises
01-08-2003, 08:26 PM
WEll being the fact that i heavy squatted conintuoulsy except for like 2 or 3 weeks in the last 5 months or something explains why ive been hard on the tendons. I mean its nothing problematic but i know it could turn that way if i don't lay off. Really low rep Heavy squatting more then a few weeks in a row is a no no. Ive taken a week off of working out because i got really sick. I should have gotten a simple cold but because of low test and more importantly due to low estrogen(I was just coming off 6-OXO for 3 weeks) i got a bad fever for 2 days and sore throat etc. I figure since my legs are bothering me, and i need a break anyways, and need to recover fully from this cold, im gonna take a whole week off and then when i come back im gonna do 8+ reps for now on for squats and all other excercises. Lost a little bit of lean mass from not working out and being sick. HOpefulyl when i get back to working out i can get it back due to muscle memory. My nuts are still not 100 percent functional after 4 weeks but hey ive done some heavy cycling so i don't expect my test production to be 100 percent perfect for a few more weeks. I wouldsay its about 90-95 percent now maybe. Its funny because i forgot what my balls are supposed to feel like(they gain sensitivity as they get near normal) and look like size wise since they have never fully recoverred in a long time
Yah at this point im willing to sacrifice strength. I mean hell i can always go for that later on why now??? Id rather get my damn size now then worry about strength so much.
IM gonna do chest for session 3 and back for session 1 because i when i hit my chest at the end of back day i want 5 days of rest instead of 3! I figure since ill be specifically training for hypertrophy more rest on my muscles will be better.
01-09-2003, 03:07 AM
just ordered some 6-oxo; gonna be finishing up at the end of the week; and use only 4-AD until the 6-oxo arrives...
gonna drop down to the 3 workout days a week plan; use 6-oxo for 3 weeks; and then keep maintaining another 3 weeks after that... then take a 1 MAYBE 2 week break; and then if test levels are appropriate i'll be ready for a 4 on 4 off 4 on 8 off 75mg ED fina cycle
01-14-2003, 07:47 PM
Ended my cycle saturday; had toned down the 1-test to 200mg per day for the last week; and the 4-AD dropped a bit too since the T1 PRO dosage was lower...
started 6-oxo with sunday evening meal...
end result? 168lbs... started at 145ish
Bench was around 145lb 1rm, worked with 125
Squat was around 225lb 1rm, worked with 155
Deadlift was around 185lb 1rm, worked with 125
Curls were around 80lb 1rm, worked with 65
Shoulder press was around 110lb 1rm, worked with 85
Bent over row was around 55lb 1rm, worked with 45
Bench is a 190lb 1rm, working with 155
Squat is around 300lb 1rm, working with 225
Deadlift is around 280lb 1rm, working with 205
Curls are around 100lb 1rm, working with 80
Shoulder press is around 150lb 1rm, working with 115
Bent over row is around 75lb 1rm, working with 60
Going to keep you informed of my post-cycle results... haven't lost any strength as of yet; as i did my max presses with 3 days off of the androgens
Starting point strength numbers were done after a 2.5 week break and taken on the days when i started using T1 PRO and T4
Workout has changed; doing less total sets on bodyparts; mild isolation exercises, and 8-12 rep scheme for hypertrophy instead of 4-6 for strength
01-14-2003, 07:50 PM
01-18-2003, 12:08 AM
been takin 6-oxo with my last meal... 300mg for 3 weeks total...
its now been almost 5 days... and the water weight is almost gone... i've lost 4lbs; but it seems to be all water weight... haven't noticed any muscle size decrease...
i started pissing A LOT like the 2nd day on 6-oxo and thats when i lost that weight hehe...
definitely can feel the lack of the androgens tho... i am just as strong on the first or second set as i was before; but when the 3rd and 4th set come on heavy exercises like shoulder presses or squats, etc... i start breathing hard... the 2min rest times are working me good... workouts are really good still...
i've shortened my workout to 3 days a week; and focusing primarily on compounds with 3 or 4 sets at a 8-10 rep range...
also trying something new on my biceps; doing two drop sets from my 10rep max; then drop 10lbs on the dumbell; then max reps again; then drop 10 more lbs... i keep goin until i get to the 10 pound dinky dumbells and then i max out on those...
i do two sets of those and i'm through; feels great; maybe my biceps will be stimulated
legs feel sore still; can definitely see the decrease in recovery time; also the bump to 8-10 rep scheme did a lot too
the best news: no strength loss!!! shoulder presses are still 120lbs at 9 reps, and still curlin 40lbs on the dumbells
update on fina cycle:
still curious if i should run test with the fina... test prop ain't cheap and i don't wanna spend too much money... don't have the dough for synovex right now
01-18-2003, 04:51 PM
Sounds faimiliar. I lose a lot of water weight with 6-OXO and the ECA stack immediately. I know for a fact though that i don't lose muscle because the higher reps(around 12-7 reps for the first set or 2) actually stay the same or in some instances GO UP for the next few weeks. See these are the reps that are totally dependent on the size of your muscle. Youll find that your lower rep sets(like below 8 or 6 reps) will eventually start going down soon. Especially around 3 weeks. But you see those reps aren't really dependant on your muscle so expect it to gradually decline MAYBE for the next 3 or 4 weeks.
Whats weird though is usually my high rep sets go up on the big compounds but stay about the same on my upper body for many weeks.
THe guys that are keepin a lot of weight post cycle are mostly holding onto a lot of water weight(glycogen) and fat. I lose a lot because i lose a lot of this yet because my high reps stay the same for the most part i basically hold onto most of my muscle.
Ive been reading up on fina a lot and according to par deus fina is about 1/3 to 1/4 more potent mg per mg then 1-test. Patrick arnold and par deus will tell you qualitatively they are very similiar. IMO you won't see better muscle gains with the added test in it In fact a few weeks after your cycle youll probably wind up fatter then you otherwise would have been due to the estrogen floating around IMO. I would at least try fina a lone once just to get a feel for it. Besides finadick doesn't come in till week 4 or 5 week AT LEAST for most.
01-20-2003, 05:14 PM
I have good news to report...
I had dropped weight down to 160lbs as of thursday of last week... thats an 8lb drop...
have now gained BACK to 164; and its definitely muscle...
legs have grown in size along with biceps and chest... i believe the new bench grip and my new bicep routine are to blame
01-20-2003, 05:22 PM
Thats awesome. I never really gain muscle until my test is nearly back to normal.
From what i read a wide grip means more on shoulders and a smaller grip means less on shoulders, more on triceps.
Im gonna try a slightl smaller grip tommorow but not too much. I want big shoulders as i believe those are more important then triceps.
Put it this way When someone looks at you dead on your traps is what adds height to you, your shoulders add width and height, and your lats will also add width to your shoulders.
When looking from the side your shoulders and chest add most of the thickness. As you can see arms are lowest on the priority list.
I don't want my arms too small though so ill do a closer grip but maybe only like an inch or 2 less then normal :P
01-20-2003, 05:24 PM
well i work my shoulders on a seperate day so no worries for me
plus doing a flat bench and then an incline bench makes me rely more on shoulder power than triceps because after the flat bench sets are done; my tri's and chest are very tired
just realized... on an ECA stack, the aspirin studies show kills protein synthesis; might be a reason muscle gain is hampered
01-20-2003, 05:50 PM
hehe i forgot about that.
Ive gone without it though and with no 6-OXO though so that may be the reason why in the past i couldn't gain muscle even a few weeks later.
Heh on my upcoming cycle this is my 4 day split. By the way i think im cutting out all leg work since i won't need it and to allow my upper bocy more recovery. So keep that in mind. heres my split
All work sets on major compound excercises will be of the rep range for 4 sets 15-12, 12-8, 10-6, 8-6 with 2 minute rests. Bodyweight excercises will be as many reps as i can get, hopefully above 4 reps for all sets.
Isolations will be 3 sets with 1 minute rest with 12-6 rep range
Flat Bench Barbell 4 sets
Bench Press(close Grip) 4 sets
Shoulder Press(barbell) 4 sets
flat flyes 3 sets
skull crushers 3 sets
lateral raises 2 sets
Pullups(wide grip) 4 sets
Bent Over Rows(regular grip) 4 sets
Shrugs(dumbells) 3 sets
Bicep Curls barbell 3 sets
Forearm Reverse Curls 3 sets
Rear lateral raises 2 sets
Ommiting quads/hamstring part for most of cycle
Incline Dumbell press 4 sets
Pullovers 4 sets
Incline Flyes 3 sets
Tricep extensions 3 sets
Front raises 2 sets
Pullups(close underhand) 4sets
Bent overrows dumbell 3 sets
Hammer Curls 3 sets
Bent over rows(elbows out to work posterior delts) 3 sets
Wristcurls/extensions dumbells 2 sets curls 2 setsof extensions per hand
Ill be taking in 200 mg of fina a day ONLY but im gonna throw in some extra dsmo hopefully so i can get about 40 percent absorption so roughly 70-90 mg of fina absorbed aday
01-20-2003, 06:46 PM
i like your workout; its different than mine; but still good...
on my 4 day split i still only worked a set of muscles HARD once a week... except the chest got light work on a 2nd day...
you are doing alternating exercises to hit your body... nice regimen...
i'd still throw in a couple sets of squats and deadlifts, but its your workout
01-20-2003, 07:03 PM
Yah well my thighs are probably ok but my calves and and ass and waist are too big compared to my chest and arms and shoulders. Id rather put less stress onmy whole bodyand up the intensity of my upper body.
I might go the whole 4 weeks with just upper body as i have a feeling if i do any lower leg work ill overtrain
After experimenting now for a wile with different rep ranges and rest time i think these are the best resttimes for the excercises that will allow ME to hit the best rep ranges for muscle growth. If i start off to low then i end up to low. Also i want to hit muscle fibers equally hence starting off pretty high. Ive read hypertrophy happens from 15-6 reps and 1 to 2 minute rests so thats why my workouts are centered around that rep range for the compounds.
01-21-2003, 10:02 AM
01-21-2003, 11:19 PM
cool article... tho nothing that pertains to the negation of protein synthesis because of aspirin, ibuprofen, etc...
these are proven facts done in studies; they both hamper or completely eliminate protein synthesis in the body when taken in decent portions (ie. an ECA stack carries more than the normal dosage of aspirin)
02-04-2003, 02:43 PM
Done with the 6-oxo as of Saturday of last week...
damn that stuff works GREAT!!! balls grow back (didn't realize they had shrunk at all) sex drive stayed high... and i still gained a bit of muscle while on it...
definitely can see the lack of androgens in my workout now; and how tired my body is... after the 3rd set on the heavy compounds i am huffing and puffing big time... so now i'm taking a 1 or 2 week break
after water weight loss and a couple lbs of weight gain; i got to 164lbs...
so the total cycle summary:
425mg/day of 4-ad
6 week cycle
3 week of 6-oxo 300mg/day post cycle
total gains: went from 145lbs to 168lbs
net gains: went from 145lbs to 164lbs...
overall i gained 23lbs and kept 19lbs after the water weight dropped and going on postcycle
bench press jumped around 45lbs
squat jumped around 75lbs
deadlift jumped around 95lbs
thanks BDC for this great stuff!
stay tuned for a new thread outlining my fina cycle; this time with bf measurements and size measurements
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