BigVrunga/USPLabs - Get Ripped Or Die Tryin' - The NonHormonal Mega-Stack!

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  1. -Dalla Hunga-
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    BigVrunga/USPLabs - Get Ripped Or Die Tryin' :)


    Symmetry, PowerFULL, CissusRX, Camphobolic, C2, 'New USPLabs Cutting Pills', CreEthylThunder, ReboundXT

    This is it, Im going to 8%BF. Nothing will get in my way. I dont care how much weight I have to lose. I dont even care if I dip below 200lbs, or if I get a little weaker. The fat must go. I am BigVrunga, and this is my decree

    Ive been trying to lean out for a good 10 months now. Probably about 5 months of focused determination and another 5 just too busy to do anything but maintain. Started at 240lbs @ 18% BF, Im sitting here now at 217 and ~11% - 12%BF and Ive been stuck at this point for months.

    Diet was in check (but not meticulously tracked), making it to the gym, I couldnt figure out why I wasnt losing fat. And then, the obvious:

    Cardio.

    I'd always make it to the gym with an hour to spare and barely get in 10-15 minutes 2-3 times a week. With my sedentary office job, that's just not going to cut it even with a good diet, especially cutting naturally. It took me forever to get the motivation, but Im on that damn treadmill like its my religion now. For the past 2 weeks, Ive hit that mother 4 days a week and got in all my post workout cardio - last week was 5 20 minute sessions, this week 6 25 minute sessions. In 2 weeks Ill be up to 8 35 minute sessions of cardiovascular training a week...and If that doesnt lean me out...well I guess I'd better call Bobo

    In addition to that, Ive got back into the habit of tracking what I eat, and FitDay.com has been a godsend. You can see the past 2 weeks worth here:

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...wner=BigVrunga

    Striving for ~2700 cals a day at 40/40/20 (P/C/F). Refeed at 3300 cals every 5-6 days or so.

    Now the fun part, the supplementation

    First off, a huge thank-you to USPLabs for allowing me to be a tester on a few of these products. Also a big shout out to Custom and OmegaSports for making a totally kick ass CEE supplement (CreEthylThunder!)

    Here's the rundown:

    Morning:
    2 Symmetry
    2 Cissus
    2 C2

    4PM:
    3 caps new cutter

    Preworkout (9pm):
    8 CreEthylThunder
    3 PowerFULL
    4 Symmetry
    2 Cissus
    2 Camphobolic

    Before Bed:
    2 PowerFULL
    2 Cissus
    2 Symmetry (beta)
    2 Camphobolic
    25mg ReboundXT

    As for regular supplementation, just the staples: Multivitamin, Uni-Liver, Vitamin C. I also have about 200g of BCAA's that Ill stretch out over the next 4 weeks.

    Im taking the ReboundXT because 1.)I have a little more than half a bottle in my supplement cabinet, and 2.)PowerFULL seems to have some kind of estrogen activity and while mild, Id like to keep it under control as I have no idea how my body will react to Symmetry.

    The lasttime I tried something similar was a PowerFULL/CET/Cissus/Rebound stack that was surprisingly effective. Im looking very forward to the effects that the fat burners and Symmetry will add, hopefully it will be nothing short of impressive.

    Unfortunately, no basal bloodwork (I dont have the funds and Im too eager to start), although I will try to get bloodwork done post if I can swing it, and then a couple months later to compare.

    Measurements, Bodyweight/Bodyfat readings to be posted every week.
    Training/diet diary, blood pressure readings, and personal ramblings to be updated every day.

    Here's to getting ripped!!! Now I'm going to go make my fat ass one of Beowulf's Tuna burgers

    BV
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 03-16-2006 at 01:58 PM.

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    *subscribed*, can't wait to see your results BV!
    "A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, The one I feed the most." -George Bernard Shaw
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    Ma big huggy bear is gonna get all wirey and shredded! LOL

    You can do it man. That stack will..ah well it will do SOMETHING! It'll make you an herbal superstar.

    A little bit of EC goes a really long way on CAMPHI I have found. You could add that the last week and end the cut with a bang...hopefully not literally.
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    Holy ****, that is one hell of a stack. I'll definetely be following this one. Best of luck, buddy! Please let me know how cAMP works....hopefully the nighttime version.

    GOOD LUCK!
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    Rage, camp works a treat on its on for a slow steady recomp, part of my staple supps now, been on a few months.

    Watching this one with interest, GO BIGV
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    BV that's a crazy amount of pills ED. Good luck brother.
  7. -Dalla Hunga-
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    You can do it man. That stack will..ah well it will do SOMETHING! It'll make you an herbal superstar.
    Thanks for the support I know, Im going swimming in phytosterols Cissus has a proven track record as an anabolic agent for me. I never did get the results from PowerFULL that others have, but in a stack with Cissus/CEE/Rebound I felt like I was on a PH cycle - the pumps were off the hook.

    A little bit of EC goes a really long way on CAMPHI I have found. You could add that the last week and end the cut with a bang...hopefully not literally.
    Ive only tried Ephedrine once, and that was old-school hydroxycut a long time ago. It felt like I was going to jump out of my skin I might give it a go at low doses though, as Ive heard many good things about the EC stack and cutting.

    The CEE, Cissus, and Camph should be here Monday, I started the PowerFULL ,Symmetry, C2, mystery cutter yesterday. I have to say that about 30 minutes after taking Symmetry/PowerFULL on an empty stomach, I do feel 'something' - although at this point Im writing it off to placebo.

    Also my first time running the fat burners consistently all day, as previously I only used C2 as a pre-workout boost. 2 Caps of this stuff and Im flying...sitting at my desk now and amped up, with nice pleasant mood lift from the Chocamine and Rhodiola. HR at 60BPM.

    BV that's a crazy amount of pills ED. Good luck brother.
    Dont forget the 12 tabs of Uni-Liver on top of all that!! Maybe I should mix it all up in a vat of Phlogel and bathe in it!

    BV
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    Good luck, bro!
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    I think there's just too much emphasis on taking too high of a dose of ephedrine. It's likely the bar got set too high by people with a high tolerance to stims. I got by on 5 mg of ephedrine taken twice per day AM and about 2 pm and didnt have too many problems sleeping. Coupled with increased cardio, I burned off fat like never before with the CAMPHI.
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    Subscribed. Tear it up bro! And ephedrine is nothing like the ephedra in the Hydroxycut. That crap wired me out somethin fierce. EC stack is mellow IMO. I just split the 25mg Vaspro's in half untill my tolerance goes up and before ya know it I'm taking 25mg with 200mg Caffiene 3x ed with no problems sleepin.
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
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    Subscribed. Good luck BV.
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    Actually started something like this stack on Wednesday 2/22/06 because I dropped Phera due to the bloat. BV beware this stack you will like, with our without the ephedrine, you will harden you up nicely. Those red pills warm me up from the inside out, havent been this hot in a along time, and the effect on fat is noticeable in one week...
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    I think there's just too much emphasis on taking too high of a dose of ephedrine. It's likely the bar got set too high by people with a high tolerance to stims. I got by on 5 mg of ephedrine taken twice per day AM and about 2 pm and didnt have too many problems sleeping. Coupled with increased cardio, I burned off fat like never before with the CAMPHI.
    Thanks for the tip Bioman, Ill get right on that then. I suppose I was a bit put off after that expeirence with Hydroxyturd. I am quite sensitive to stims...a cup of coffee is enough to get me wired right up.

    Subscribed. Tear it up bro! And ephedrine is nothing like the ephedra in the Hydroxycut. That crap wired me out somethin fierce. EC stack is mellow IMO. I just split the 25mg Vaspro's in half untill my tolerance goes up and before ya know it I'm taking 25mg with 200mg Caffiene 3x ed with no problems sleepin.
    Thanks for the info , bpMartyr! Ill probably start lower than that though

    Actually started something like this stack on Wednesday 2/22/06 because I dropped Phera due to the bloat. BV beware this stack you will like, with our without the ephedrine, you will harden you up nicely. Those red pills warm me up from the inside out, havent been this hot in a along time, and the effect on fat is noticeable in one week...
    I can definitely vouch for the new cutter as being something unique. I take C2 in the morning with breakfast, and this new one has more in the way of a nootropic effect. I get this warm rush, feel very focused and mild euphoria (no doubt chocamine and rhodiola are in the mix ), and very energetic without being jittery.

    Thanks again for the well wishes guys

    BV
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    I think there's just too much emphasis on taking too high of a dose of ephedrine. It's likely the bar got set too high by people with a high tolerance to stims. I got by on 5 mg of ephedrine taken twice per day AM and about 2 pm and didnt have too many problems sleeping. Coupled with increased cardio, I burned off fat like never before with the CAMPHI.
    Bio I agree I only use a little amount of E when I use it. Otherwise I am peeing like a preganet women.

    And BigV which one was the USPLabs cutter?
  15. -Dalla Hunga-
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    New USPLabs cutting supplement - first impressions


    Cardio
    jogging/treadmill - 5.5Mph for 27 minutes

    Soundtrack(figured Id update this too, as its an important part of staying motivated for me)
    InFlames - Come Clarity

    Notes:

    I took 3 caps of the new cutter on a semi-empty stomach before heading down to run on my lunch break. Within 15 minutes, I could feel it kicking in...feels like a stimulant with a blend of several nootropics. I can tell you that I havent felt this awake and *alert* in a LONG time, and I only got about 5 hours of sleep last night!!!!

    So, at 3:30pm I got in 27 minutes of cardio. My lower back was still pretty sore from deadlifts tuesday, but 10 minutes in and the pain went away from the increased bloodflow and endorphin release. Nice Also didnt sweat as much as I have...I dont know if its from the stimulant of if it was just colder at the gym

    I ramped up my motivation 2 weeks prior to starting this stack, so Im going in full bore, cardio and diet locked in tight. Since Ive started my new regimen, Ive definitely noticed some fat loss...my inner arms are starting to get more defined which is awesome, because for 5 years they've just been shapeless blobs

    One thing I do notice is, after Im done running I have increased vascularity. Hopefully this will lead to a permanent improvment, as Im not a very vascular person at all.

    BV
  16. -Dalla Hunga-
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    And BigV which one was the USPLabs cutter?
    Well, C2 and Camphobilic are the ones they have on the market now. The 'mystery cutter' is a new product that Im testing...there are several threads on it in the USPLabs forum. From what I gather, its based of C2 with some extra ingredients...not sure what those are yet though.

    BV
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    Keep the updates coming!
  18. -Dalla Hunga-
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    Training Log - 2/24/2006


    Fitday Entry for Today:
    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Month=1&Day=24

    Weight Training:
    Arms - 50 min

    Cardio:
    Elliptical - 10 minutes (ran out of time)

    Gym Soundtrack
    InFlames - ComeClarity
    Soilwork - Stabbing the Drama


    Exercises:

    Standing EZ Bar Curl
    125 X 12
    135 x 10
    140 x 9
    140 x 7

    Seated Preacher Curl
    105 x 12
    105 x 10
    110 x 10

    Standing Cable Double Bicep
    Plate 6 on Cybex Machine
    12, 12, 10

    Close Grip Bench
    225 x 10
    225 x 10
    225 x 8

    Lying Tricep Extension
    125 x 10 + CG Bench x 10
    125 x 8
    115 x 7 + 95 x 7 + 75 x 8 + CG Bench x 8 (Drop Set)

    Reverse Curl
    85 x 12
    85 x 12
    85 x 11

    Notes:

    So today is the first day on Symmetry & PowerFULL. I took 2 Symmetry caps this morning along with 2 C2's, and 4 Symmetry and 3 PowerFULL on an empty stomach ~45 minutes before going to the gym.

    I did notice some nice pumps, but that could have just been due to increased focus on diet and training...strength and energy have been slowly climbing over the past 2 weeks due to increased focus and motivation.

    Of course, I wasnt expecting anything on the first day either! Im looking forward to next week when Im running the full gamut...maybe Ill be like Greg Valentino and my arms will explode and Ill get a TV special.

    Im going to head to Vitamin Shoppe tomorrow and see if I can get some ephedrine

    BV
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 02-26-2006 at 07:04 PM.
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    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product_i...roducts_id=288

    Here's your E bro. Order tomorrow and have it in like 2 days. I am guessing if Vitamin Shoppe even has it (doubt it) they are gonna want 3x more.

    Oh, by the way, whats up with those sissy weights your using?
    JK

    Keep it up you strong ass motha trucka!
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
  20. -Dalla Hunga-
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    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product_i...roducts_id=288

    Here's your E bro. Order tomorrow and have it in like 2 days. I am guessing if Vitamin Shoppe even has it (doubt it) they are gonna want 3x more.
    Yeah, you're totally right I just placed an order with Nutraplanet yesterday and it shipped already! I wonder what else I can pick up to consolidate on shipping costs?

    Oh, by the way, whats up with those sissy weights your using?
    JK
    I know its embarassing!

    Keep it up you strong ass motha trucka!
    Someday maybe!!

    Here are some pics from today. Im white as a sheet Sorry about the crappy quality, Ill use a better camera shortly.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
  21. -Dalla Hunga-
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    Weight: 217
    BF%: 11.2


    What a messed up day today...I had a recording session with a local band and it ran about 5 hours over schedule. I guess Ill be doing legs tomorrow

    I am also dosing the Synergy&Powerful equally each day (Im not skipping my preworkout dose on off days)

    Ill also be adding Epedrine to the stack by Wednesday

    BV
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    What kind of dosage schedule are you planning for the ephedrine?
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
  23. -Dalla Hunga-
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    Got any recommendations for that bpmartyr? Id like to start with a low dose to see how it effects me, probably 10mg 2x per day with the C2/New USP cutter.

    BV
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    What kind of E did you order? The Vaspro's are 25mg and split ok (they used to be scored). I split the Vaspro and I 200mg Caffiene and took them 2x ed untill tolerance went up (less than a week) and then took the whole 25mg and 200mg 2-3x ed (activity dependant). I would just start low and work your way up. Nice thing is the half life seems pretty short so no waiting through a couple of days of hell like with clen.

    You may not be using the C with it but I always have. They deff have a synergy together as neither of them apart does much of anything to me as far as a CNS stim. I am unsure if any of the supps you are taking have any caffiene? The USP fatburner??? I sometimes split the C in half as well BTW, I try to gauge how I feel and decide what I need or what I can handle. Dam I'm long winded. Back to my refeed!
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
  25. -Dalla Hunga-
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    The C2 has ~100mg of Caffeine in 3 caps, Im assuming the new fat burner does as well. I havent ordered the Ephedrine yet (I will before Monday)...Nutraplanet carries Vasopro and Biotek. Do you think there is any difference? They both have identical active ingredients.

    BV
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    I have a bottle of both sitting here and yeah, they are the same. The old Vapros had a deeper score that allowed them to break perfect every time and I swear they were stronger. Go with the less expensive, Biotek if I remember correctly.
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
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    I have a bottle of both sitting here and yeah, they are the same. The old Vapros had a deeper score that allowed them to break perfect every time and I swear they were stronger. Go with the less expensive, Biotek if I remember correctly.
    Sweet, then Ill go with the Biotek!! Thanks for the info.

    Well, had planned a serious leg today BUT at 3:00pm I figured it was time for a nice nap. And at 7:45 (gym closes at 7!) I woke up somewhat guilty, but very refreshed Looks like Monday is leg day!!

    Anyway, I think I am noticing a definitie increase in libido for he synergy/powerfull. My libidio is usually fine, but Im starting to feel like Im on a low dose of 4AD - just can't get it off my mind.

    Also, I'm starting to get that 'all day pump' - which is interesting. The last time I stacked PowerFULL with CET and the pumps were just crazy, and when I used PF by itself I didnt notice too much at all. Now, running it with Synergy and Im definitely feeling more 'jacked' (not as much as the CET/PF combo yet, if I tried to quantify it Id say about 50% of that)

    This is interesting because, if you check out my diet:

    yesterday was a low calorie/low carb day:
    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Month=1&Day=25

    and today, I havent got in that much food at all (although that's about to change real soon here)

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Month=1&Day=26

    Getting excited...I didnt expect to see any results within the first 3 days, honestly. Perhaps its just a placebo effect, but as this coming weeks unfolds Ill be sure. The rest of the stack will be here as well, looking very forward to that!

    BV
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    looking good. im excited to see results!!!
    Get your FREE RIPPED GUIDE

    www.newstarathletics.com/rippedfree
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    FitDay Entry For Today:
    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Month=1&Day=27

    4pm Cardio
    Walking, 3.7mph, 30 min
    Tunes:
    Jerome Isma/Dee Productions (FriskyRadio Stream)


    9pm, Weight Training

    Tunes:
    InFlames: Come Clairity
    GodForbid: Constitution of Treason


    Squats
    135 x 15 (warm up)
    225 x 15 (warm up)
    325 x 10
    335 x 10
    355 x 9
    405 x 5 (3/4 reps)
    315 x 10

    SLDL's
    245 x 12
    265 x 12
    285 x 9

    Smith Machine Lunges
    135 x 12 (R) + 135 x 12 (L)
    155 x 12 (L) + 155 x 12 (R)
    175 x 10 (R) + 175 x 10 (L)


    Standing Calf Press

    (Stack + 140lbs) x 12
    (Stack + 160lbs) x 10
    (Stack + 160lbs) x 9

    Leg Extensions + Leg Curl (superset)
    140 x 15 + 140 x 15
    150 x 15 + 150 x 15
    150 x 15 + 150 x 15

    10:15 pm, Cardio
    Elliptical, 30 min
    Tunes:
    Jerome Isma/Dee Productions (FriskyRadio Stream)

    Notes:

    Suprisingly, strength was up today, noticably. Usually, Ill do 315 x 12 for 3 sets on the squats and then go right to isolation training with lunges, single leg presses, etc. Today, when I loaded up 315 it felt...light. Real light! Since Ive cut down from 240, Ive lost some strength here and there, but most of my big lifts (except the bench, damn it!) have remained about the same...I may have lost a rep or two or the weight seems 'heavier', but I can still move it. Today, that squat bar felt as light as it did when i was 20+lbs heavier. 325,335,355 all just felt easy. At my strongest I could hit 405 for 5, and today just for the hell of it I loaded up 8 plates and did it for 3/4 reps just to see how it felt. It was heavy. But honestly if I started with it Im sure I could have got them for full reps. After the partial rep set, I dropped down to 315 and ~45 seconds later pumped out 11 reps with my feet ~shoulder width apart as fast and smooth as if it were 225!

    Onto SLDLs. Im trying to ween myself off of straps on this exercise to increase grip strength. Usually, 265 will start slipping out of my hands around 8 reps. Today, that was 20lbs heavier.

    The rest of the workout went really well, I just had a lot of power and energy. My cardiovascular training is really coming along - with good tunes on the Mp3 player I can just keep going and going, which is great. Im actually starting to like cardio, and I thought I'd never, ever, EVER say that

    If you look at my diet for the past few days, ive actually been too low in cals, especially carbs. I didnt do a refeed over the weekend, and still I have a nice strength boost today. Im thinking this points toward the PowerFULL/Symmetry but as its only been 4 days Im not going to attribute it to the supps just yet. If strength continues to improve this week while in a caloric deficit, well then I guess Im going to be heading over to SynergyMuscle.com and picking me up a few more bottles of this stuff before the sale ends!!

    BV
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 02-27-2006 at 11:04 PM.
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    Probably should track measurements too:
    (Done with a Myotape)

    Arms:
    R:17.5", L:17.25"

    Forearms:
    13.5"

    Shoulders:
    53"

    Chest:
    46"

    Legs:
    26" (Still not as big as Greg Valentino's arms, unfortunately)

    Calves:
    L: 16.5" , R: 16"

    Waist:
    33.5"

    Since Ive been cutting, Ive lost about 1" on all the major muscle measurements, and a good 4" off my waist.

    I remember reading somewhere (I think it was an old BigCat article at bb.com) that "If you want to get cut, you're going to have to cash in on a lot of mass".

    No ****!!



    BV
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    Ya but a little bit of shredded goes a long way over a lot of round!
    You aint kiddin'! It took me a few years to get over that 'the scale has a big number on it so I must be big' mentality.

    Now, I just want to be pretty

    BV
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    Thanks, now that song is stuck in my friggin head.
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    If you're sensitive to stims you might want to go for 5 mg of ephedrine 2 times per day then go up as your tolerance dictates. It still burns fat just fine...especially with that jungle's worth of herbs you're taking.
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    Everything looks really good BV. Keep up the good work.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    The rest of the workout went really well, I just had a lot of power and energy. My cardiovascular training is really coming along - with good tunes on the Mp3 player I can just keep going and going, which is great. Im actually starting to like cardio, and I thought I'd never, ever, EVER say that


    BV
    I find powerfull gives a me definate increase in endurance. Certainly helps with the cardio amongst other things.

    Keep it going BigV
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    Well, I ended up working on a project until nearly 4am, and ended up with about 4 hours of sleep. I woke with that nauseating "I need sleep or Im gonna die feeling"

    All day at work was pretty rough, but after taking the fat burner I had enough pep to run for 30 minutes.

    Felt like ass but still made it to the gym to work on chest...it was a disaster

    Got in 4 sets of bench, it was down about 10lbs. (no doubt due to the lack of sleep)

    Incline DB was about the same, but I didnt have the energy to get a full 10 reps with 100lbs DB's.

    Funny thing is, about 30 minutes after getting to the gym (and about 1hr after taking PowerFULL/Symmetry) I felt my strength starting to kick in. I still hit 12 dips with 90lbs as my last exercise, and actually felt like I could have gone a lot further, but my dumb gym closes at 11pm so I had to leave. Crapola

    I noticed this same effect the last time I tried PowerFULL as well. If its anything Im guilty of, its not getting enough sleep and at least a couple nights a week I might only get 4-5 hours. (bad, I know). When using PowerFULL, while I didnt see the impressive results others have seen until I stacked it with Rebound/Cissus, I did always seem to be able to pull through on those nights when I just felt like I should have stayed home

    I think Im due for a good nights sleep and a refeed

    One cool thing, I went to the gym with a friend I hadnt seen in a few weeks and he commented that I was looking much leaner. That was swell

    BV
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 02-28-2006 at 11:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    Sweet, then Ill go with the Biotek!! Thanks for the info.

    Well, had planned a serious leg today BUT at 3:00pm I figured it was time for a nice nap. And at 7:45 (gym closes at 7!) I woke up somewhat guilty, but very refreshed Looks like Monday is leg day!!

    Anyway, I think I am noticing a definitie increase in libido for he synergy/powerfull. My libidio is usually fine, but Im starting to feel like Im on a low dose of 4AD - just can't get it off my mind.

    Also, I'm starting to get that 'all day pump' - which is interesting. The last time I stacked PowerFULL with CET and the pumps were just crazy, and when I used PF by itself I didnt notice too much at all. Now, running it with Synergy and Im definitely feeling more 'jacked' (not as much as the CET/PF combo yet, if I tried to quantify it Id say about 50% of that)

    This is interesting because, if you check out my diet:

    yesterday was a low calorie/low carb day:
    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Month=1&Day=25

    and today, I havent got in that much food at all (although that's about to change real soon here)

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Month=1&Day=26

    Getting excited...I didnt expect to see any results within the first 3 days, honestly. Perhaps its just a placebo effect, but as this coming weeks unfolds Ill be sure. The rest of the stack will be here as well, looking very forward to that!

    BV
    Hey BV, whats up bro! Havent been by here in a while. Good to see that you are getting good results so far! That seems like a pretty sick stack you have going there. You will definatley get down to your goal of 8%, just keep going full steam ahead, as that last little bit is allways the hardest to go, and that is when I have allways had to dig down and grab my pair, and go a little harder, LOL! As for the Biotek of Vasopro, I don't know if there is really any difference, as it is synthetic, but for some reason I "crash" harder and faster on the Biotek stuff! Any one else ever experience this? By the way, by crashing I mean my energy levels just crashing to the point where I can fall assleep right then and there. Also by doing like Bpmrtyr said with the E, it should avoid this crash , i think. I usaually just junp into it @25 mgs 3-2x's a day. I think I will start out low and increase slowly next time I use it, and see if it will deminish this effect. Anywho, great work to get where you are allready, and good luck with the rest of your cutting ! I will be following your progress.
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    BV you look sick bro, good job keep it up!!!
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