My first Cycle (Dianabol) please read!

[Tom098]

I will be running my very first steroid cycle at the age of 23, 172 lbs 6ft2.

Seeing as I want to bulk, I decided that the best steroid to use would be Dianabol.

I am just a little confused to the whole "mostly used for a kick starter" fact and how it's not as effective when ran buy itself.

Anyway, my 4 week on cycle will consist of...

Dianabol 30/30/30/30
Androtest/Mass (as I don't want to use injectables for test to stack with)
N2 Guard
Achilles (for Joint Support)
A chosen AI (Armidex?) at 0.5mg to 1mg per day

When the 4 weeks are over, my PCT will consist of....

Tamoxifen 40/40/20/20 or 40/30/20/10
PES Erase Pro v2
DAA Powder (test booster)
N2 Guard

How does this look for my first cycle? seeing as I'm aiming for maximum bulk. Is there anything wrong with this cycle? and if all looks ok, how many lbs can I expect to put on using this cycle while eating 3000-4000 calories per day?

Thank you for your time!

 

[booneman77]

It's not that dbol can't be run by itself, it's just a poor choice to do so as it'll add a ton of very wet gains that you will lose most of. On top of that it will shut down your natural test which can leave you feeling lethargic and miserable (thus need for the test base). The wet gains just aren't high quality muscle and especially since you're running such a short cycle they're even harder to keep since it takes time for muscle to mature and the body to hold onto it.

You can expect to gain big numbers using dbol, even in a short cycle, but you WILL lose probably 75% if not more. If you gain 15-20lb I wouldn't count on keeping more than 3-5

 

[Jebrook]

^^^totally agree. Well said!

 

[rtmilburn]

It's not that dbol can't be run by itself, it's just a poor choice to do so as it'll add a ton of very wet gains that you will lose most of. On top of that it will shut down your natural test which can leave you feeling lethargic and miserable (thus need for the test base). The wet gains just aren't high quality muscle and especially since you're running such a short cycle they're even harder to keep since it takes time for muscle to mature and the body to hold onto it.

You can expect to gain big numbers using dbol, even in a short cycle, but you WILL lose probably 75% if not more. If you gain 15-20lb I wouldn't count on keeping more than 3-5

I agree with this to an extent. The 3-5 is a little dramatic. People ran 4 weeks of m1t or SD phera dbol anadrol etc etc and kept more than just 3-5 pounds. You can keep about half of what is gained so gain 15 lbs you MIGHT keep 7ish pounds with good DIET, training and with a spectacular PCT(your PCT is just fine for recover of your HPTA and will help maintain some of your gains but it could be better. Throw in some natural anabolics like ara ABE viron EP1C unleashed just to name some.)

 

[Tom098]

Thanks for your replies guys. It now appears to me that dbol is not best run by itself considering all the gains you lose due to the wet gains.

So my question is, which would be the most effective stack/steroid to put on and keep 15lbs-20lbs of size after a 4-6 week period?

(Please bare in mind that I won't be using injectables and will be using andromass/androtest as a test-e alternative) unless there is any other superior test-e alternative?

 

[booneman77]

Thanks for your replies guys. It now appears to me that dbol is not best run by itself considering all the gains you lose due to the wet gains.

So my question is, which would be the most effective stack/steroid to put on and keep 15lbs-20lbs of size after a 4-6 week period?

(Please bare in mind that I won't be using injectables and will be using andromass/androtest as a test-e alternative) unless there is any other superior test-e alternative?

15-20lb of keepable size is pretty unrealistic in 4 weeks unless you're not concerned with half of it being fat. even with the best injectible gear, thats crazy. 10 would be a pretty stretch goal even.

 

[Tom098]

I only say 15-20 because if you look at predictors nutrition "hulk stack" (pro hormones) which is nanodrol (a methylstenbolone product) stacked with androtest it has 5 star reviews with most people saying they got 10-20lb gains within 4 weeks. So I assumed the real anabolics could at least match this or do better?

 

[booneman77]

I only say 15-20 because if you look at predictors nutrition "hulk stack" (pro hormones) which is nanodrol (a methylstenbolone product) stacked with androtest it has 5 star reviews with most people saying they got 10-20lb gains within 4 weeks. So I assumed the real anabolics could at least match this or do better?

I would highly doubt anyone who gained 15-20lb on a ph kept it... Msten is great but that's likely what they gained during the cycle, not what they kept. People never write reviews when they lost most of their gains (which a ton of ph users do. Especially ones running pre designed stacks from a website)

I think you got autocorrected from "predator" (where I only see one review that is so poorly worded I would never believe it ha).

 

[Tom098]

Haha ok well let me rephrase things a little. Would the stack I mentioned earlier be the most effective way to put on mass? And if so, would it be comparable to the "hulk stack" on predators website? If not, what would be and for how long?

Thanks!

 

[booneman77]

Haha ok well let me rephrase things a little. Would the stack I mentioned earlier be the most effective way to put on mass? And if so, would it be comparable to the "hulk stack" on predators website? If not, what would be and for how long?

Thanks!

The hulk stack allows you to select from a few different ph's and ancillaries... its not a pre-made stack... just offers some choices. I think you need to read up on a few compounds and see what fits your goals and then come back here with an actual proposal and we can critique that

 

[Blergs]

first cycle:
teste or cyp for 12-14 weeks
AI
PCT
DONE

trust me... and maybe add other stuff or an oral on later cycles IMO

 

[booneman77]

first cycle:
teste or cyp for 12-14 weeks
AI
PCT
DONE

trust me... and maybe add other stuff or an oral on later cycles IMO

You suggest this in every thread... but never read that the OP has almost always said explicitly "no injectibles"

We all know test is the best real cycle but for many thats just not possible.

 

[Driven2lift]

You suggest this in every thread... but never read that the OP has almost always said explicitly "no injectibles" We all know test is the best real cycle but for many thats just not possible.

Test is the best real cycle?

Tren exists


Lol just being difficult
You used too much logic here

 

[Tom098]

Ok well the compound I found to be best for bulking in the PH world is metholstenbolone such as nanodrol and in the steroid world to be Dianabol. I don't want to use injectables so the only test e alternative I could find is androtest which is an oral which converts to test which I will be using as a base.

Now all I need to know is which out of the two is better for bulking (giving greater mass) how long I need to be taking the androtest for after my 4 weeks of dbol/nanodrol and if there was any other oral I could take alongside my stack to improve it.

 

[booneman77]

Ok well the compound I found to be best for bulking in the PH world is metholstenbolone such as nanodrol and in the steroid world to be Dianabol. I don't want to use injectables so the only test e alternative I could find is androtest which is an oral which converts to test which I will be using as a base.

Now all I need to know is which out of the two is better for bulking (giving greater mass) how long I need to be taking the androtest for after my 4 weeks of dbol/nanodrol and if there was any other oral I could take alongside my stack to improve it.

your androtest is just the test base, its not meant to be run past the other compound, its just there to support while you let the other do the work.

personally, I would go with Msten because I think you will be severely disapointed in the "after" from a dbol cycle. You'll blow up huge and then just lose all the water and glycogen.

I would probably run a longer cycle then 4 weeks though as well. 6 would be much better.

 

[yates84]

You say that you are 23 in one post and 24 in another, which one is it? No reason to give false info if you want proper help

 

[Tom098]

I'm turning 24 next week so there is nothing false in stating either age

 

[yates84]

I'm turning 24 next week so there is nothing false in stating either age

Then you are 23. It just threw up a red flag is all

 

[Tom098]

It would be more accurate to judge me as a 24 year old given a weeks difference

 

[yates84]

It would be more accurate to judge me as a 24 year old given a weeks difference

I will trade ages with you, sound good? Nothing personal, some guys come in here that are way too young to cycle and lie about their age to get advice. Just checking you out homie

 

[Tom098]

Ok you got me I'm 12 years old

 

[yates84]

Ok you got me I'm 12 years old

Hahaha! So are you going to run the dbol or the msten? A simple msten/4 andro cycle might be a good idea for you.

 

[Tom098]

Well dbol seemed like the way to go but people tell me it's a waste to do it by itself. And because I'm not ready for injectables yet I won't be able to run test e with it unless there was an oral alternative. But Msten seems to be very good at putting on mass and keeping it. Which shocked me in a way because the "real deal illegal stuff" doesn't seem to me superior in any way.

 

[yates84]

Well dbol seemed like the way to go but people tell me it's a waste to do it by itself. And because I'm not ready for injectables yet I won't be able to run test e with it unless there was an oral alternative. But Msten seems to be very good at putting on mass and keeping it. Which shocked me in a way because the "real deal illegal stuff" doesn't seem to me superior in any way.

Prohormones can be just as aas. They are all steroids just some are more legal than others. I agree with dbol being a better kicker for a test cycle rather than be cycled solo. Plus, you know what you are getting with nanodrol, might not be the case with dbol. 20mg of msten for 4 weeks would be my plan for you

 

[Tom098]

Yeah I think I'll go with that. And there is no guarantee that the dbol is 100% what it is if you're buying it from someone.

 

[yates84]

Yeah I think I'll go with that. And there is no guarantee that the dbol is 100% what it is if you're buying it from someone.

Exactly. Feel free to hit me up if you need any help setting up your cycle

 

[GotTest]

From experience...
Take an AI through entire cycle. its a gyno monster ?
Taper Dbol last week to avoid the strength crash.
Run SERM during PCT.
Lift and eat heavy ?

 

[Tom098]

What AI would you recommend? The best legally obtained one I've seen is liquidex and letrozone on predator nutriton. If that wouldn't be sufficient then I could get hold of something like armidex?

My pct will consist of nolvadex, erase pro and daa test booster

 

[Tom098]

Thanks mate I will do.

 

[GotTest]

i would bet liquidex is same as arimidex....i prefer that over letro. letro crashes my est.

 

[stankyleg]

Thanks for your replies guys. It now appears to me that dbol is not best run by itself considering all the gains you lose due to the wet gains.

So my question is, which would be the most effective stack/steroid to put on and keep 15lbs-20lbs of size after a 4-6 week period?

(Please bare in mind that I won't be using injectables and will be using andromass/androtest as a test-e alternative) unless there is any other superior test-e alternative?

This is not realistic.

 

[stankyleg]

Take a test base with something that creates dry gains. Run it for 6 weeks. Train hard, eat hard, pct, repeat.

 

[jrunner]

Dbol without test is a one night stand

 

[mixedup]

I agree with this to an extent. The 3-5 is a little dramatic. People ran 4 weeks of m1t or SD phera dbol anadrol etc etc and kept more than just 3-5 pounds. You can keep about half of what is gained so gain 15 lbs you MIGHT keep 7ish pounds with good DIET, training and with a spectacular PCT(your PCT is just fine for recover of your HPTA and will help maintain some of your gains but it could be better. Throw in some natural anabolics like ara ABE viron EP1C unleashed just to name some.)

M1t and sdrol are different compounds most of dbol weight gain is water and glycogen retention. So you will naturally lose more weight than you would with sdrol or m1t

 

[rtmilburn]

M1t and sdrol are different compounds most of dbol weight gain is water and glycogen retention. So you will naturally lose more weight than you would with sdrol or m1t

Most of SD or m1t gains are glycogen retention as well

 

[mixedup]

Most of SD or m1t gains are glycogen retention as well

Yes but unlike dbol you don't get the water gains from aromitization. So if you kept half the sdrol gains you'd more than likely lose more than half gains on dbol because the water weight so that's why one of the posters said 75%.

 

[jrunner]

Dbol and Drol are accessories to your base. Will you lose weight? Yes, so what it's just bloat. Will you lose strength? Some....that's why it's absolutely necessary to use a test base and keep using it after the dbol/drol cycle. Don't depend on them. Remember why you use them. They are not the base.

 

[Blergs]

You suggest this in every thread... but never read that the OP has almost always said explicitly "no injectibles"

We all know test is the best real cycle but for many thats just not possible.

then dont do it at all. I am not going to give advice feel is bad because the op cant do it optimally and safely... then wait to IMO... unless an actuall medical issues like he cant clot and bleeds out, I dont feel advising otherwise is right, so yes I do post similar advice alot on this forum I know.

 

[Blergs]

Ok well the compound I found to be best for bulking in the PH world is metholstenbolone such as nanodrol and in the steroid world to be Dianabol. I don't want to use injectables so the only test e alternative I could find is androtest which is an oral which converts to test which I will be using as a base.

Now all I need to know is which out of the two is better for bulking (giving greater mass) how long I need to be taking the androtest for after my 4 weeks of dbol/nanodrol and if there was any other oral I could take alongside my stack to improve it.

It is better than nothing.
good luck on cycle.

 

[Blergs]

What AI would you recommend? The best legally obtained one I've seen is liquidex and letrozone on predator nutriton. If that wouldn't be sufficient then I could get hold of something like armidex?

My pct will consist of nolvadex, erase pro and daa test booster

CEM has AI and PCT (banner up top here). I use the letro in low doses as my main AI and LOVE the CIA ; ) haha Used them for years.
Also I would rec a combo PCT of tamox and Clomi IMO