My first cycle

[hoot72]

I know there is a lot of threads on this and I have read and read but I am still confused. I have done a lot of research and now just looking for some opinions.
I am 41 yrs old, 198 lbs and 18% bf. I started back working out 3 yrs ago and now I am looking for a little extra help due to I'm older and hard to gain the muscle that I am looking for. This will be my very first ph cycle.
So here is what I have and just trying to put it all together and learn how to dose it and when. I work out 5 days a week @ 5:30 am for 1 hr to 1 1/2 hr
1 bottle Mega DMZ
1 bottle Cycle Armor
1 bottle Xtreme PCT
2 bottles Erase
2 bottles Endosurge
2 bottles DAA
1 bottle Deer Antler Test
I am looking into purchasing a serm but cant make up my mind which one.
I am currently on a fish oil, multivitamin, maca, and the normal protein, pre-workout and creatine
Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Matthersby]

Over 40, have you had your test levels checked? Toremifene is worth the extra few dollars for PCT. Everyone has a favorite. Good luck. PM me if you need questions answered.

 

[hoot72]

yea. I had them checked last yr. They were a little lower than I wanted but I have worked on that some but haven't checked them again. What about the dosage of the above stack?

 

[Matthersby]

I run it 75/50/50/25 for a pH cycle.

 

[GeekPoop]

I always recommend clomiphene

 

[hoot72]

Alright, so I got 2 options on a serm. But what do yall recommend on when to take these & is all these a good stack or do I need all of this or is there something better or what? Thanks!

 

[GeekPoop]

Alright, so I got 2 options on a serm. But what do yall recommend on when to take these & is all these a good stack or do I need all of this or is there something better or what? Thanks!

when yo take your serm? Doesn't matter, just don't forget!

so lets recap... what cycle you thinking of and your new pct with serm?

 

[Matthersby]

Its borderline excessive once you add the SERM so you're fine. I don't spend a lot on supplements but PCT is a different story. I'll take whatever I have the $ for to hold onto gains. Read some DMZ threads while waiting for your torem or clomid to show up and see what side effects may arise and what results to expect. Model your diet and training after the more successful runs with DMZ. Ask questions that are specific here when you have them. Good luck too.

 

[Matthersby]

when yo take your serm? Doesn't matter, just don't forget!

so lets recap... what cycle you thinking of and your new pct with serm?

Agreed.

 

[hoot72]

Alright, this is what I am thinking and planning on. Let me know if it should be different!
cycle armor - week 1 - 6 1 a.m. 1 p.m.
mega dmz - week 2 - 5 1 a.m. 1 p.m.
xtreme pct - week 6 - 9 1 a.m. 1 mid day 1 p.m.
endosurge - week 6 - 11 2 a.m. 1 mid day 2 p.m.
erase - week 6 - 11 1 a.m. 1 p.m.
serm of my choice - 6 - 9
I cant figure out if I need to fit in the antler test and daa or not. Thinking I'm good without it. What do yall think?

 

[Matthersby]

Throw them both in PCT. Never hurts.

 

[hoot72]

I don't want to waist them though!

 

[Matthersby]

I don't want to waist them though!

At over 35 yo, nothing is a waste in post cycle. You need it more than you do at any other time. I actually don't believe much works other than L-dopa and DAA. Both serve very nicely in PCT.

 

[Lc3933]

hey, looking good bro, this is my first cycle to ....check out my log

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/236542-first-ever-cycle.html

 

[laneanders]

Yeah any DAA type product such as Intimidate SRT will really shine in PCT allowing your natural test levels to recover more rapidly than without it. IDK about the deer antler though

 

[GeekPoop]

Alright, this is what I am thinking and planning on. Let me know if it should be different!
cycle armor - week 1 - 6 1 a.m. 1 p.m.
mega dmz - week 2 - 5 1 a.m. 1 p.m.
xtreme pct - week 6 - 9 1 a.m. 1 mid day 1 p.m.
endosurge - week 6 - 11 2 a.m. 1 mid day 2 p.m.
erase - week 6 - 11 1 a.m. 1 p.m.
serm of my choice - 6 - 9
I cant figure out if I need to fit in the antler test and daa or not. Thinking I'm good without it. What do yall think?

ditch the erase. Clomiphene is fine on it's own

I don't know what extreme pct is or endosurge

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

I'd start the Erase on your third week of pct.

 

[Lc3933]

Please don't listen to the idoit who's telling you to use clomid without erase. Although it Is tru its better to start erase at week 2-3 but clomid over any other serm will cause an estro rebound after you stop using it so an ai like erase is essential. While you're on climid you're fine because it will block the estro receptors but once you jump off you'll have a huge rebound without an ai on hand

 

[Matthersby]

And don't listen to guys with 1/1000 of the time or posts here or that call other members idiots.

 

[Lc3933]

Doesn't matter how long a persons been on here, doesn't change how much someone knows. And you're trying to say erase is not an AI?..... its a suicidal aromatase inhibitor

 

[Matthersby]

My confusion... With the arsenal of OTC products out there and their PRO or XT or V2 versions, I had confused erase with another. I just use Aromasin, an AI. Easy to remember. Just getting irritated with the lack of educated, thoughtful, and polite disagreements as of late. Straight to name-calling instead.

 

[Lc3933]

Erase it the closest otc product to aromasin and functions in virtually the same way, also has anti cortsol and cortisil reducing properties. By far best and most effective otc ai on the market

 

[Matthersby]

I hear great things about it. For the record I don't think he should ditch it either... See what we're doing here? We're learning(or at least I am) AND making nicey-nice. I prefer this to name calling.

 

[Matthersby]

I even edited my post as a peace offering.

 

[hoot72]

Alright.... so I'm really confused now. So do I need erase or not? Do I need the DAA?
My serm of choice ended up being Torem. It will be here Monday. So I am about ready to get this show on the road! What are my best options on this ride?

 

[McCrew530]

Alright.... so I'm really confused now. So do I need erase or not? Do I need the DAA?
My serm of choice ended up being Torem. It will be here Monday. So I am about ready to get this show on the road! What are my best options on this ride?

Start the Erase and DAA on week two or three of PCT its up to you if it was me I would start week two if you have the og erase do one cap three times a day and I prefer my daa in the morning @ 3gs before the gym

 

[GeekPoop]

Please don't listen to the idoit who's telling you to use clomid without erase. Although it Is tru its better to start erase at week 2-3 but clomid over any other serm will cause an estro rebound after you stop using it so an ai like erase is essential. While you're on climid you're fine because it will block the estro receptors but once you jump off you'll have a huge rebound without an ai on hand

how many cycles have you done sir? please enlighten me, I'm an idiot

 

[Matthersby]

Start the Erase and DAA on week two or three of PCT its up to you if it was me I would start week two if you have the og erase do one cap three times a day and I prefer my daa in the morning @ 3gs before the gym

^this^ will work just fine.

 

[jimbuick]

Start the Erase and DAA on week two or three of PCT its up to you if it was me I would start week two if you have the og erase do one cap three times a day and I prefer my daa in the morning @ 3gs before the gym

Shouldn't he start DAA the day he starts PCT?

 

[McCrew530]

Shouldn't he start DAA the day he starts PCT?

I dont think there is a reason why he couldnt...

 

[jimbuick]

I dont think there is a reason why he couldnt...

There isn't.

But it doesn't kick in immediately so most suggest starting it immediately after the cycle ends and waiting to start the AI halfway through like you suggested.

 

[hoot72]

Thanks guys!!! I am trying to get it right for my first cycle. I hope to see great results! Any other suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Lc3933]

You should structure your pct as such;
Torem 90/60/60/30
Daa. 03/03/03/03/03
Erase. 00/00/02/03/03/03/01

Could add another test booster like activate xtreme, titanium, hcgenerate if youd like but it's not necessary. Also I plan to use creatine hcl, and also usp labs compound 20. From what I've read about it and how it works theoretically it should help significantly in retaining your gains threw pct

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

I don't see a reason to taper the Erase.

 

[Lc3933]

Even tho its a suicidal AI I always taper AIs for the off off chance of rebound

 

[jimbuick]

Even tho its a suicidal AI I always taper AIs for the off off chance of rebound

You're about to run your first cycle.

Please enlighten me as to how you have experience with what you always do in PCT.

 

[Lc3933]

at no point in time did i say in pct, but i have run different test boosters and high dose daa before which i always run with an AI for the improved effectiveness of the product

 

[6andaHalf]

OP, running a DMZ log right now if you're interested. I read about every single DMZ log the internet had to offer before my run.

Only on day 15 now but its has been good to me so far! Just a little lethargy so far but I've gained 8lbs+ though...

 

[Matthersby]

at no point in time did i say in pct, but i have run different test boosters and high dose daa before which i always run with an AI for the improved effectiveness of the product

Tell me you're not back here telling guys how to run cycles? Seriously, Gtfo/stfu in threads where you have 0 experience. Really? Youre the dipsh!t calling others idiots because you can read a thread and regurgitate it? Take your DAA cycle experience elsewhere.

 

[Lc3933]

lol you can call me whatever you like and say im and "idoit" for not having experience but i notice that theres way to big a of a trend of people with alottttt of experience having no idea what theyre talking about. In my opinion you should know everything there is to know before you start, so that theres knowledge before experience and not the other way around. not to say that you OP are unknowledgeable (which you may be but im not saying either way as i dont know you) but i simply am saying that before youre quick to call me out and tell me im not right for being in experienced first you have to tell me what info ive said is not accurate? with some things its better to learn from experience and trial and error, in others (such as steroids which will alter your entire bodies physique and hormonal system) its much better to first acquire a large base of knowledge and then make the plunge, which is what ive done.

 

[Matthersby]

Impressive. You're the first of all of us to research before using aas. Bravo. You can't even hide how proud you are of yourself. It's actually kinda cute, little know-it-all newb.

 

[Lc3933]

Like I said you can call me whatever you like, but it doesn't change the fact that I know what I know and everything you guys say to insult me are about me and know my info. Like I said, if you can point out fault/or flaw in anything I say then by all means, but if you cant then it just proves my point. Like I said, it seems to be a growing trend for people to jump into things hap-hardidly without proper research/knowledge

 

[jimbuick]

Like I said you can call me whatever you like, but it doesn't change the fact that I know what I know and everything you guys say to insult me are about me and know my info. Like I said, if you can point out fault/or flaw in anything I say then by all means, but if you cant then it just proves my point. Like I said, it seems to be a growing trend for people to jump into things hap-hardidly without proper research/knowledge

Its already been pointed out.

There is no reason to taper a suicidal AI, literally none. Rebound is impossible from a suicidal AI.

The only reason I can imagine tapering would be to lengthen the use of 1 bottle instead of doing 3 a day for 6 weeks and needing two bottles.

 

[Lc3933]

No need if rebound from the AI is what you're worried about, which is not the case. When rebound from the substance you are taking the AI to protect against is the worry then there is some marrit to tapering

 

[jimbuick]

No need if rebound from the AI is what you're worried about, which is not the case. When rebound from the substance you are taking the AI to protect against is the worry then there is some marrit to tapering

No, there isn't.

That's what the point of PCT is, to control estrogen while your testosterone levels build back up and the hormones clear your system. By the end of the PCT the substance you took is no longer in your system at all. Running erase at 3 a day for 6 weeks, or running it at 1/2/3/3/2/1 doesn't matter.

 

[Lc3933]

its not the hormone that your worried about at that point but the increased test from the serm and the natt test boosters, when you hop off the AI suddenly while levels are still raised your body will try and acclimate by raising the e to compensate

 

[jimbuick]

its not the hormone that your worried about at that point but the increased test from the serm and the natt test boosters, when you hop off the AI suddenly while levels are still raised your body will try and acclimate by raising the e to compensate

Lolz, just stop.


We're already talking about running the AI past the SERM so that argument is invalid. Besides the fact that all you NEED to recover in PCT is a SERM (no AI, DAA, etc.) Everything else is just to ease the transition.

Can't believe you legitimately believe you'll get rebound gyno from DAA.

Also, you taper the SERM itself to protect against rebound.

 

[Lc3933]

understandable which is why initially i said theres very little chance/reason but whenever there is even a 1.2% chance why not best be safe. and i understand serm will be completed and ai were talking about when you run the ai pas, thats obvious, youre not worried about estrogen hindering you in anyway when youre serm is active in the body. if anything having active estrogen is a positive thing as long as you have the serms protecting from any negative impact that it may cause

 

[6andaHalf]

understandable which is why initially i said theres very little chance/reason but whenever there is even a 1.2% chance why not best be safe. and i understand serm will be completed and ai were talking about when you run the ai pas, thats obvious, youre not worried about estrogen hindering you in anyway when youre serm is active in the body. if anything having active estrogen is a positive thing as long as you have the serms protecting from any negative impact that it may cause

Why argue over something that now suddenly has a 1.2% chance of actually mattering. Technically... about a 0% chance realistically.

There's is however a 1.2% chance that anyone seeking advice will not get confused with what you're saying.

Jim just parked his Buick of logic right over the confusion tho. Notice the rep, doesn't happen over night.

 

[hoot72]

YEA... I AM REALLY CONFUSED NOW