My first cycle

[FL3X MAGNUM]

its not the hormone that your worried about at that point but the increased test from the serm and the natt test boosters, when you hop off the AI suddenly while levels are still raised your body will try and acclimate by raising the e to compensate

Natural testosterone levels accompanied by natural estrogen levels. Sounds scary.
I hope I never get gyno from just being natural (off cycle, normalized levels).

Better take an AI year round

 

[6andaHalf]

YEA... I AM REALLY CONFUSED NOW

Haha sorry dude. It happens in here with peoples I know everything attitude.

Just know that Jimbuick is on point. The SERM is the important thing to taper. The suicide AI just to ease off the SERM but not VITAL and technically doesn't need to be tapered.

 

[McCrew530]

YEA... I AM REALLY CONFUSED NOW

In Summery Jim knows what he is talking about JC seems to be arguing some point that really doesnt make sense with percentages that are made up
your PCT with a SERM DAA and Erase is good
when you start the SERM it would be a good idea so start the DAA and run it throughout and it is a general consensus to start Erase at week to and run 3 pills per day for 4 weeks. I think I got everything...

 

[tinytony]

In Summery Jim knows what he is talking about JC seems to be arguing some point that really doesnt make sense with percentages that are made up
your PCT with a SERM DAA and Erase is good
when you start the SERM it would be a good idea so start the DAA and run it throughout and it is a general consensus to start Erase at week to and run 3 pills per day for 4 weeks. I think I got everything...

This looks legit. I've never used Erase and always use Aromasin but an AI s a good idea. The only reason I would ever taper a suicide AI is just to save more for the next cycle. Yes maybe I'm cheap lol

 

[GeekPoop]

smh lol, simple question / thread onto 3 pages

 

[Matthersby]

Like I said, Like I said,
Like I said,

Like I said, gtfo. Too reckless and under-researched around here for you.

 

[hoot72]

Alright, so here is what I have come up with. I workout 5 days a week at 5:30 a.m. for an hr to hr & 1/2
cycle armor week 1-11 1 @ 9 a.m. & 1 @ 9 p.m.
dmz week 2-5 1 @ 7 a.m. & 1 @ 7 p.m.
taurine week 2-5 3g @ 5 a.m.
xtreme pct week 6-9 1 @ 7 a.m., 1 @ 1 p.m. & 1 @ 8 p.m.
daa week 6-9 3g @ 5 a.m.
toremifen week 6-9 1ml @ 9 a.m.
endosurge week 6-11 2 @ 7 a.m., 2 @ 1 p.m. & 2 @ 7 p.m.
erase week 8-11 1 @ 7 a.m., 1 @ 1 p.m. & 1 @ 7 p.m.

How does this look?
I have a lot of concerns. First of all, it is my first cycle ever! I am 41 yrs old and is this going to benefit me in any way or am I risking my health for nothing. My wife is a nurse and she don't know I am going to do this. she will give me hell if she knew. But I am at a point where I want some good gains and I have been working very hard but at one time I was fat. I am down to 197 lbs now. I am in the best shape of my life but I just want more muscle! What should I expect and I just being paranoid with it being my first cycle? should I even do this cycle?
Any opinions or help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

It looks good man. Just make sure you're eating enough and lifting hard.
As for the Erase, it has a long half life. You might find it better to take all 3 caps pre bed.
And since you hit the gym so early, I'd take the DMZ around 5 am and then again around 2 pm.
You want to get it in your system to have higher levels for the gym to maximize your experience.

 

[GeekPoop]

that's just bout everything and the kitchen sink! looks fine tho, too much for pct imo but just member to drink a lot of water

 

[Matthersby]

Oh come on, poop.. you can never overdo pct.

 

[Lc3933]

I definitely agree with that statement, you can definitely have overkill or unnessessarly large amount of stuff for pct, but it's never a bad thing

 

[hoot72]

It looks good man. Just make sure you're eating enough and lifting hard.
As for the Erase, it has a long half life. You might find it better to take all 3 caps pre bed.
And since you hit the gym so early, I'd take the DMZ around 5 am and then again around 2 pm.
You want to get it in your system to have higher levels for the gym to maximize your experience.

Thanks Bro! I will change the DMZ and the erase.
But what about my other questions?? Should I do this? Am I gonna be disappointed?
What should I expect?

 

[Lc3933]

How many cycles have you previously done? I've never personally done dmz but to my knowledge its supposed to be pretty harsh compound

 

[GeekPoop]

Oh come on, poop.. you can never overdo pct.

he has torem!

 

[hoot72]

How many cycles have you previously done? I've never personally done dmz but to my knowledge its supposed to be pretty harsh compound

This is my first cycle

 

[Lc3933]

I'm about to start my first, im on day 3 of the preload, im doing halodrol. For pct I'm using torem, erase, daa, hcgenerate, and titanium. It's also what id consider to be overkill but I figure for first cycle overkill isn't a bad thing. (also the titanium came with the erase for free, wouldn't have bought it). Also adding in compound 20 from usp labs. Supposed to be great for retaining muscle during a cut so I figure it may help retain my gains in a pct

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Thanks Bro! I will change the DMZ and the erase.
But what about my other questions?? Should I do this? Am I gonna be disappointed?
What should I expect?

Of course there will be negative impacts on health, but the trade off is muscle gains.
As long as you stay healthy, take your supports, and stay strict in the gym and kitchen you'll be pleased with the end result.
Might even learn a thing or two about yourself.

 

[hoot72]

Yea.... But what I'm saying is for someone my age, is it worth it & am I going to have more side effects & less results. I can't find a log where someone over 35 has done a dmz cycle. Just wondering

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Yea.... But what I'm saying is for someone my age, is it worth it & am I going to have more side effects & less results. I can't find a log where someone over 35 has done a dmz cycle. Just wondering

If it's your first cycle you'll see great results IMO, you're not that old and it wouldn't be a huge factor.

Only one way to find out....

 

[hoot72]

Alright.... I am going for it! I have just a few more questions.
Do I need to start this cycle on a rest day before my workout or start it the first day, which is on Monday, of my workout?
Should I change anything in my normal workout routine or my supplement routine? My normal workout day, which is mon - fri, I get up @ 5:00 a.m., drink a small protein shake with 1/2 scoop protein mixed with my pre-workout (pes enhanced) since I don't have much time before I hit the gym. I am at the gym at 5:30 a.m. I workout for up to 1 1/2hr. then I take 2 gnc mega men multis, 1 fish oil, and 1 maca. I drink another protein shake with 1 1/2 scoops protein then get ready for work. before I leave I eat 3 boiled eggs and 1 cup oatmeal @ 7:30 a.m. The rest of the day is the normal snacks and clean eating throughout the day. Sometimes I do another protein shake at 5 p.m. or casein before bed. I also do cardio some afternoons after work - depends on work load.
Should I change any of this??
Is it ok to take the dmz first thing in morning on empty stomach or should I take it after my protein & enhanced mixture or something else?
Thanks guys!!

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Just from looking at your diet plan I'm thinking you're not getting enough calories in.
Can you break it down in calories? Protein/carbs/fat as well?
Taking DMZ with your protein is perfectly fine. I actually take all my PH with food because typically they're more soluble with fats (I take mine with fish oil sometimes.)
We can talk about everything else once I know how much you're eating.

 

[hoot72]

Just from looking at your diet plan I'm thinking you're not getting enough calories in.
Can you break it down in calories? Protein/carbs/fat as well?
Taking DMZ with your protein is perfectly fine. I actually take all my PH with food because typically they're more soluble with fats (I take mine with fish oil sometimes.)
We can talk about everything else once I know how much you're eating.

\

To be honest, I haven't been a strict as I should but have been changing that this week. I have been around 2000 to 2500 calories per day. As far as protein, carbs and fats, I haven't really logged it. yea, I know, I need to be and that is also changing with a new app that I loaded on my phone. but just guessing, I've been around 250g of protein. I eat a lot of chicken, turkey, brown rice, broccoli, salads, tuna, almonds, peanuts, you know the normal stuff and 1 cheat day - Sunday.
But I promise I will be more strict on this cycle. What do I need to set my goals at?

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Your calories are way low.
Plug your stats in here
http://www.my-calorie-counter.com/calorie_calculator.asp#
and add 500-1000 to the calculation to add muscle.
Protein looks decent. I myself shoot for 350g/day when I'm on cycle.

 

[hoot72]

Your calories are way low.
Plug your stats in here
http://www.my-calorie-counter.com/calorie_calculator.asp#
and add 500-1000 to the calculation to add muscle.
Protein looks decent. I myself shoot for 350g/day when I'm on cycle.

Wow! yes it is. I should be around 3100 calories so then on cycle I should be up to 4000? Man! I don't know if I can eat that much! How do you do that clean?

 

[Matthersby]

Wow! yes it is. I should be around 3100 calories so then on cycle I should be up to 4000? Man! I don't know if I can eat that much! How do you do that clean?

I do more than that every day. It just takes practice.

 

[Matthersby]

I do more than that every day. It just takes practice.

I usually cram 1500-2000 cals minimum during 1-2 hour period after a workout.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Wow! yes it is. I should be around 3100 calories so then on cycle I should be up to 4000? Man! I don't know if I can eat that much! How do you do that clean?

My morning shake and breakfast alone is 700 calories, and my post workout shake is 1000 calories. Right there I've drank almost half my daily requirement. Make friends with your blender!
Oatmeal, Greek yogurt, egg whites, honey, natural peanut butter, milk, protein powder, frozen fruit, all blended up!

Then for my meals I eat a lot of rice and red meat, chicken, tilapia, whole grain pasta etc.
You'd be amazed also at how easy it is to consume a large tub of plain Greek yogurt in just a few days when you throw in some crystal light or mio for flavoring.

 

[hoot72]

My morning shake and breakfast alone is 700 calories, and my post workout shake is 1000 calories. Right there I've drank almost half my daily requirement. Make friends with your blender!
Oatmeal, Greek yogurt, egg whites, honey, natural peanut butter, milk, protein powder, frozen fruit, all blended up!

Then for my meals I eat a lot of rice and red meat, chicken, tilapia, whole grain pasta etc.
You'd be amazed also at how easy it is to consume a large tub of plain Greek yogurt in just a few days when you throw in some crystal light or mio for flavoring.

Man! Thanks for the tips! I guess I got get creative with my protein drinks. Should I invest in some mass gainer or just stick with the above ingredients?
Alright now I have the info for eating. Now is there anything else that I need to know? What about libido? I've seen some say they have none and others wide open. I still have a little fat in the mid-section. Is it going to help me get rid of the rest of that or am I going to increase that area with all the eating that I am going to be doing?
I am getting more excited about this cycle. I will definitely keep ya'll posted!

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Mass gainers typically tend to contain a bunch of crap you don't need. That's why I make my own. To get exactly what I want.
Libido seems pretty user dependent but if you want you can add DAA and Fadogia on cycle to try and keep things in check.

As for the fat loss, the thing is if you try to lose stomach fat on cycle you're basically doing a "recomp" meaning you'll add lean mass while burning some fat but you probably won't see a big change in weight.
If you're looking for weight gain you can probably gain good mass without adding much fat. The fat loss should come after pct.
If you notice you're gaining a little bit of fat on cycle just cut your calories back a little.

 

[hoot72]

Mass gainers typically tend to contain a bunch of crap you don't need. That's why I make my own. To get exactly what I want.
Libido seems pretty user dependent but if you want you can add DAA and Fadogia on cycle to try and keep things in check.

As for the fat loss, the thing is if you try to lose stomach fat on cycle you're basically doing a "recomp" meaning you'll add lean mass while burning some fat but you probably won't see a big change in weight.
If you're looking for weight gain you can probably gain good mass without adding much fat. The fat loss should come after pct.
If you notice you're gaining a little bit of fat on cycle just cut your calories back a little.

Thanks Bro! You have been great! I have learned a lot. I think I am ready for this journey now. Have I missed anything?

 

[hoot72]

Oh, what is the best time to start this cycle? rest day or workout day or does it matter?

 

[Matthersby]

Oh, what is the best time to start this cycle? rest day or workout day or does it matter?

Doesn't matter.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

I'd start on a workout day.

 

[tinytony]

I'd start on a workout day.

My dilemma is, I usually want to start yesterday..

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

My dilemma is, I usually want to start yesterday..

That's how I feel lol.
Like hey my pct hasn't been ordered yet but who cares!!!

 

[rphash49]

Yea.... But what I'm saying is for someone my age, is it worth it & am I going to have more side effects & less results. I can't find a log where someone over 35 has done a dmz cycle. Just wondering

I'm 35 and I've done 2 cycles of dmz. One solo and one stacked with m-sten. Sides were definitely harsher stacked with m-sten. Solo not as bad but still had back pumps weeks 2-4 and lethargy kicks in week 3. Don't be afraid to use more taurine if needed. I got up to 6 grams a day. For lethargy I used stano at 800 mg a day(solo this worked/stacked had to go up to 1000). I recovered well with torem/daa/erase pct

I also have to say dmz is not a great first run. If you are not already committed I would start with an epi 6 week cycle to see how your body handles it and how you recover. Just my extra 2 cents

 

[hoot72]

Alright.... So can we do a poll? Should I do my very first cycle with dmz or should I start off with something else? I was planning on starting in the morning!

 

[rphash49]

Alright.... So can we do a poll? Should I do my very first cycle with dmz or should I start off with something else? I was planning on starting in the morning!

Ultimately it's your choice what you put in your body. If you already have the dmz then run it.

 

[808shredded]

Yea.... But what I'm saying is for someone my age, is it worth it & am I going to have more side effects & less results. I can't find a log where someone over 35 has done a dmz cycle. Just wondering

Okay....just this is just for encouragement. I am 43 yrs old. Done about 4 cycles - lean bulk, recomp. Cutting. All different supplements to accommodate diet. I have achieve a lot from those cycles. To me, don't abuse any supplement, cycle the correctly equal time on equal time off and pct done the right way!! We have a lot of info on this forum, and a lot of respectful, knowledgable members that KNOW what they are talking about. Good luck.

 

[hoot72]

Cool! I know it is my choice but it is my first & I want to do the right thing the first time. I just was wanting some more input. I do have the dmz but I can buy something else.

 

[hoot72]

Anybody have any suggestions? What do I do?

 

[rphash49]

If you can wait for it to come in start with epi. Save the dmz for the next run.

 

[hoot72]

Well... I officially started my first cycle today. I will keep you all posted. Today was leg day - great day to start huh?
I have been back and forth on this but just decided last night that I was going to pull the trigger this morning. I figured it was now or wait till the first of the year and I didn't want to wait and didn't want a cycle to run through the holidays. You know how they can be!
Thanks for all the info and help!!

 

[rphash49]

Well... I officially started my first cycle today. I will keep you all posted. Today was leg day - great day to start huh?
I have been back and forth on this but just decided last night that I was going to pull the trigger this morning. I figured it was now or wait till the first of the year and I didn't want to wait and didn't want a cycle to run through the holidays. You know how they can be!
Thanks for all the info and help!!

Good luck! IMO biggest first cycle mistake is not eating enough food. Gotta eat to see those gains!