Fiddler's M4ohn + trimax cycle
- 05-29-2004, 09:50 PM
Fiddler's M4ohn + trimax cycle
i am doing a 2 day workout then 2 days off. working out according to DC plan. one working set with 2 x 15 RP.
i will post the other beginning days if people want but nothing much to say. other than about the same as today.
trimax works. only 1 cap/day so far and i feel hot when i do anything more strenuous than walk around. One caveat though, you will lose muscle on this unless you use an androgen or something to prevent muscle loss.
i am having 3 protein shakes a day totalling about 130g of protein. i weigh 182.8 today, started out at about 184 at the beginning. I'm not eating as cleanly as i could but am getting plenty of protein and eating approximately 40/40/20. i am eating 2 other meals other than the protein shakes.
i think i am losing weight but i am losing strength also. i felt weak this whole week. i started dosing the m4ohn at 4mg/day. i kicked it up to 9mg/day on day 4. i am hoping that it kicks in soon because this getting weaker rep by rep is driving me crazy.
I am also doing cardio on my off days. I run 20-25 minutes at 6.5 on the treadmill. I can't really tell if there are any body comp changes but if anything happens will report it.
i keep want to add things to the cycle but will try and keep it to just m4ohn and trimax.
- 05-29-2004, 10:00 PM
I am going to try this stack. So please keep us posted.
- 05-29-2004, 11:46 PM
ditto... I am debating whether to go with this or with clen+M4OHN+low dose 4AD
05-30-2004, 06:02 AM
You might want to bump up the protein abit. It sounds like you are not getting much over 200. And if it is, its not by much. I am going to be taking in about 215-250 a day.
05-30-2004, 02:26 PM
i guess i will add another protein shake. i'm afraid that i'm gonna get fat!Originally Posted by LCSULLA
i did notice a little compositional change...i had a slightly puffy left nip. where it looks like fat. there were no lumps. i checked in the mirror today after waking up when the nip was relaxed and noticed that it looked like the right one...the fatty tissue that had built up was gone...yaaaaaay!
up to 2 caps trimax today. day 8. gonna do back today. the m4ohn needs to kick in soon or i am going to go nuts.
05-31-2004, 03:21 AM
What you lost from the nipple probably was water retention. Many people retain water around their nipple area, especially when they bulk and/or use androgens.Originally Posted by fiddler
How hav eyou felt so far... any bad sweating or trouble sleeping? (those are the 2 side effects I am worried about)
05-31-2004, 09:24 AM
I would bump the suggestion of upping your protein intake.
05-31-2004, 03:08 PM
no, i haven't had any trouble sleeping. for some reason i seem to be sleeping better. i need to stop drinking so much water before sleep becasue i keep having to get up to take a leak but i go right back to sleep.
i'm not certain this is the cause but what i am doing is that i popping 2 trimax pills at the same time in the morning so that by night the concentration would have dropped. same for m4ohn.
i had a pretty good back workout yesterday. i actually gain 2 reps on wide grip pull ups and didn't lose much on everything else.
something weird today. i am feeling really sore, both front and back.
i thought androgens were suppose to reduce this?
i'm not sure what to make of this.
day1: 184.4 lbs.
my weight is going up because i increased protein intake. i do not want to gain fat but also don't want to lose muscle either.
i am doing cardio on my off days. my workout is a 2 day split. it looks like this:
day5:goto day 1
i saw in another thread that sledge recommended someone take 12mg of m4ohn if stacking with trimax and cardio.
any ideas? i can post a more detailed workout and eating if necessary.
05-31-2004, 04:26 PM
How much M4ohn are you taking? Sledge told me that with the way I wanted to run things (lite Trimax, m4ohn, with fighters type of workout) that 12-14mg should do the trick?
05-31-2004, 04:44 PM
9mg/day right now. i'm thinking of bumping it upto 12-14mg.Originally Posted by LCSULLA
i'm doing DC's workout routine and usually leave the gym completely exhausted.
05-31-2004, 08:04 PM
i think i can describe what the soreness feels like and why i am so surprised.
after you've taken a few months off for whatever reason and you go back the first day and try to do your old routine. The next day ,that's how sore I am. i can see losing strength but to be that sore is confusing me.
06-01-2004, 03:03 AM
Well we can safely assume it is the trimax causing that. Obviously it is not the m4ohn, b/c if anything this would cause less delayed onset muscle soreness, not more. And we can assume it isn't the cutting diet b/c I've never heard of that happening to that degree while cutting... and im sure you have cut before and not had this happen. And last but not least it can't be the routine b/c you've been doing it for a while I assume?Originally Posted by fiddler
Personally I am more leaning towards clen for my cutting cycle and not trimax b/c from what I have seen trimax tends to burn more muscle. Whether that is happening in your case, I don't know... have you taken any bf measurements?
06-01-2004, 10:47 AM
What does the mirror tellya or your pants? If your pants are starting to get tight then I say something needs to be changes.
06-01-2004, 11:53 AM
it's only been a week. pants seem a little looser. mirror, can't tell much...Originally Posted by LCSULLA
i am much better today though. i can feel a slight soreness, which is the way it usually is.
i have upped my m4ohn to 12mg/day instead of 9. (oops!)
just did the calipers. instead of 12=14.6%bf i got slightly less than 10=12.7% bf. can i lose ~2% in 10 days?
my weight hasn't changed much.
still 184.6 today.
i think i'm going to run trimax for only 3 weeks. supersoldier's t3, t4 levels is making me cautious.
06-01-2004, 11:54 AM
I just finished 2 weeks of this stack. I ran triac up to 2 caps/day & I started the M4OHN at 8mg, & gradually increased to 20mg. I was getting 400g protein every day, but still lost a good deal of strength. I lost 8lbs & look a good deal leaner, but I still lost a little muscle despite training & diet being near-perfect. It was frustating feeling so weak in gym. I think muscle loss is inevitable unless you are on a hardcore cycle. I've been off triac for 4 days & the strength is starting to come back.
06-01-2004, 12:03 PM
that really sucks. i'm wondering if i should go back down to 1 cap/day for the trimax to minimize muscle loss.Originally Posted by Longdog
odd thing is this is day 10 and i haven't loss any weight on the scale.
06-02-2004, 09:11 PM
today i lost anothe 2 reps. this really, really sucks.
anyone have any suggestions on what i should stack with m4ohn? i'm at 12mg. i don't think the m4ohn can hold off the trimax unless i use more.
i have on hand, m1,4ad, 1-test, 4ad, oht.
06-03-2004, 08:41 AM
1 test would be my choice, due to it helping alot with strength and preserving muscle w/o bloating me. I would worry about bloat on the m1,4 or the 4-ad. But it all depends on how you react to those things.
06-03-2004, 11:43 AM
how about 70-80% 1-test and 20% or so 4ad to counter the 1-test sides?Originally Posted by TheUsual
so do i use less m4ohn or what?
06-03-2004, 01:42 PM
I added 80% 1-test & 20% OHT in the 2nd week. I haven't had the 1-test lethargy at all, I think the M4OHN counters it just fine. You can still use 4ad, but I don't think you'll need it for that reason.Originally Posted by fiddler
I would keep your M4OHN dosage the same, don't lower it. I am running 20mg.
06-03-2004, 03:17 PM
so are you actually gaining muscle, holding steady...?Originally Posted by Longdog
06-03-2004, 03:29 PM
I actually have gained about 3 lbs since stopping Tri-max & strength is returning gradually. I am eating a little over maintenance so I should add a few lbs. So, yeah I guess I'm gaining a little muscle.Originally Posted by fiddler
06-03-2004, 03:49 PM
i think i am going to stop the trimax and keep up the cardio. i will also use less effective burners. i am just losing too much strength. at this rate i will be a girl in a month.Originally Posted by Longdog
i will add the 1-test though. thanks.
i think the trimax would be good with a more powerful androgen or mix or androgens.
06-04-2004, 01:25 PM
This is turning into a m4ohn + pg-h stack. i have about another 2 weeks to go for this 4 week cycle and will now use pg-h with the m4ohn.
i am doing pct for the thyroid. l-tyrosine and 7-keto, and guggul. going to keep up the cardio and make sure i get 230-250g of protein a day. I guess i should add a list of supps that i'm taking.
4 caps of multivit.
proliver from 1fast
4 caps Now Omega 3/day
2 caps Now CLA/day :these things are huge, 1g/cap!
i think that's it.
weight is still going down. 182.4 today. started at 184.4 and upto 185.2 12 days ago.
trimax works great but i think too well. It seems like it would be great to run with a big bulker. I would also suggest staying with one cap until you get some sort of baseline on how it's working.
Or you could use trimax and no cardio. with cardio you will drop fat and muscle for sure.
I started using the pg-h last night. i slept like a rock! i did not get a breathless feeling last night. just a flush feeling after a few minutes.
this morning i got a flush feeling and while walking around got the breathless feeling. suddenly it was hard to take a normal breath...nothing too scary or anything, since i knew it might happen!
i had my back workout yesterday and didn't do too badly. i think the muscle losses have stopped.
funny incident last night while i as preparing to take the pg-h. I rubbed a spot with the alcohol pad, waited for it to dry then couldn't remember where i rubbed!
06-14-2004, 11:03 PM
odd thing is this is day 10 and i haven't loss any weight on the scale.
06-14-2004, 11:59 PM
SAME HERE![/QUOTE]Originally Posted by EricForman
Is your diet clean? Even still, with my experience, I was eating pretty ****ty and i still lost weight around day 10 (about 5 lbs)
06-16-2004, 09:09 PM
[QUOTE=EricForman]odd thing is this is day 10 and i haven't loss any weight on the scale.
How much are you dosing?
06-16-2004, 11:56 PM
Is your diet clean? Even still, with my experience, I was eating pretty ****ty and i still lost weight around day 10 (about 5 lbs)[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by fieyaa
pretty clean. 3 x protein shakes. 1 in the morning, 1 P/O, 1 after dinner sometime.
for lunch, i usually just eat a double cheeseburger with ice tea, no sugar. or a salad with grilled chicken.
i am not doing cardio only on leg day. otherwise cardio everyday. walk for 43 minutes in the morning. then on days when i'm not lifting, i run 23 minutes at 6.5.
my lifting routine is:
day 1: chest, shoulder, tri, calf, leg
day 2: back width, back strength, bi's, delts, abs
those of you that follow DC and IA will recognize the setup of the routine.
15mg of m4ohn and now 100mg 1test in morning and 100mg 1test sometime in the afternoon.
almost done with 1 month cycle. i am noticing body comp. changes though, so i guess it's not too bad that my weight is not going down.
i started this cycle with bf% at 14%, i am now around 10 or so. so i figure another cycle in 30 days or so and i will be down to 7%. I don't really care what the weight is, as long as the fat comes off. gonna try lipostabil while off and doing cardio and see what follows. maybe in 34 days when i start another one i can focus on lean gains instead of losing fat.
If anyone is interested, i have been recording stats, like weight and lifting records. i do a strict 3 minutes between sets and 5-6 minutes between exercises. i use a stopwatch...
i think it's actually the 1test that has stemmed the muscle and/or strength loss and not m4ohn. the m4ohn has certainly kept the sides off though.
i am slowly but surely gaining again even though i am doing more cardio than i have ever had before. 1 to 2 reps at a time but better than sliding backwards.
06-17-2004, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE=SJA]Originally Posted by EricForman
I am at 1 cap a day in the morning and will not increase to 2 until the next cycle. Actually, it feels like it's working quite well now at the 2-week mark. Everyone is VERY different and perhaps it just took me longer than others (at age 36) to get the old body working right.
Then again, maybe it feels like it's working better b/c I started M4OHN two days ago!...today is day 3. Who knows?
As far as the diet goes, yes, it is pretty clean. However, if I didn't change a thing and TRIAC is so effective, shouldn't I STILL lose weight? If I radically changed my diet and added cardio in a big way, the majority of weight loss should be contributed to that, IMHO.
As I said, the diet is fairly clean and I do not intend on changing it much more ---> I take in @ 2,200 - 2,600 cals a day. Even though I like cardio as much as I like a Whoopi Goldberg comedy routine, I have increased it.
Good luck guys
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