M4OHN, Lose Fat! Not Weight, Stregnth, Hair
- 04-27-2004, 02:50 AM
M4OHN, Lose Fat! Not Weight, Stregnth, Hair
Age: 21 (almost 22)
Experience: Weightlifting: 7.5 years, Training Seriously: 4.5years, Training actually knowing what the hell I was doing: 2.5 years
Stats: 6'1", 212lbs-217lbs, Body Fat is Tough is Judge (mirror is best indicator), Arms are really cut, Fat is in Chest, Obliques.
Lifts: Bench 225x20, Squat is 405x15, 225 x 50ish (I have a torn patellar tendon in my left knee - so heavy squats will wait until after surgery).
Cycle: *Projected: 25-30days of M4OHN, Absolved, Liver Protectants (NAC), Saw Palmetto, Hawthorn Berry, Epherda (only for preworkout boost), Propecia (any problems here?)
Post Cycle: Nolvadex, 6oxo, ZMA, Olive/Flax Oil, Creatine
Dose: M4OHN: 6mg-10mg, Absolved 4 squirts x 2 (apx 12hours apart)
Nolvadex 40mg, 40mg, 30mg, then 20mg over 4 weeks. 6oxo 200mg-300mg over 4 weeks.
Supplements: Multivitamin, ON Whey.
Diet: Mostly TBA. Calorie range apx 2300-2800. Will go as low as possible until scale moves down. Up to 300g of Protein. I lose fat/weight really easily. Protein from solid foods, mainly.
Training: Train 6 days a week. Cardio on 4 of those days. Training will be lifting heavy (HIT - compound lifts) but for only an hour on days with Cardio. Up to 100mins on the days without cardio. I'm going to listen to my body, and take a rest day if I need one.
Goals: Lose Fat, not strength, weight, hair. For the past two summers, I've absolutely murdered my strength with Epherda. I want to maintain strength at the very least, gaining some would be awesome.
Any and All Feedback is welcome.
- 04-27-2004, 05:51 AM
- 04-27-2004, 09:38 AM
Back went pretty well, basically set PRs on all lifts. Now this isn't attributed to the M4OHN. I had finished a M1T run, about 3.5 weeks ago, so during my PCT - I wasn't really pushing it to failure. Deadlifts without any back pain.
Cardio for 25 minutes.
An interesting note: I took 1 tablet of Ephedrine HCL with some Green Tea before the workout. Epherda usually destroys any sort of pump, especially any potential perpetual pump that I get. But I am still am fairly pumped right now, 2 hours after weights.
04-27-2004, 05:24 PM
04-28-2004, 05:28 AM
04-28-2004, 06:37 AM
If you are squatting (and not half or quarter squatting) 415 for 15 reps, that IS impressive.
04-28-2004, 02:52 PM
nevermind not dropping the propecia.
As for squat, I used to squat 225 x 15-20, two cycles of 1-ad got me at 405 x 15.
I learned proper form which dramatically helped.
Well, it also tore my patellar tendon. Surgery winter time?
04-28-2004, 03:02 PM
I can up put good squat numbers, average bench numbers. Strong Curl. I still feel my body is hardly impressive, arms are 15.5 - 16inches. I'm only 21, so theres time to grow. I'm taking my training very seriously.
04-29-2004, 09:55 AM
Took yesterday off. Today I worked arms at high reps and abs also - did a little cardio. My sleeping pattern is all over the place, but I've been getting at least 8 hours nonetheless. But it's left me drained during the workout. Pumps aren't quite what M1T gives, but they are still there. Starting weight was in the range of 212-217, I'm 210 right now. I'm really watching this carefully. I don't intend to go below 205 if at all possible.
No increases in strength yet (when should i expect?), but no decreases either. Definitly look leaner. But again, I shred fat really easy. Noticibly leaner where Absolved is being applied.
04-30-2004, 11:24 AM
I woke up at 205lbs, I think I'm sitting in the 208-212range however. I have been really really tired. My libido is dead so far. I was expecting just the opposite in both reguards.
04-30-2004, 08:21 PM
I don't know what the hell is going on here.
I have a shortness of breathe and terrible back fatigue all day. I've taken Potassium and Ibuprofen. I thought it was from come down from the epherda but now im not sure.
Went to the gym today and I left after 20minutes. I look pale and sick.
Libido is dead.
I did arms yesterday, and today wanted to test my strength on bench. I was sure that it was going to be up. I can get 225 x 20, but today I got 225 x 15 (barely). I really hope this is because my triceps are sore from yesterday. And I haven't lost strength....
I don't know if should have waited to start cutting, and done something of a frontloading period with M4OHN. Or if the M4OHN takes a week or so to kick in and cutting before that time - just canibalizes muscle.
Last time I cut my squat went from 405 x 13 to 315 x 10. I can't have this happen again.
I mentally feel terrible. This never happens to me. For now I plan to stay on and test my strength again tomorow. If it is down, I'm stopping the cycle.
04-30-2004, 08:40 PM
Could it just be that you are coming down with an illness of some sort? This almost sounds like you could be coming down with the flu or something of that nature.
I imagine you could be seeing some negative sides from the androgens you're on as well though, but it does seem odd to be seeing such drastic side effects in only four days time.
04-30-2004, 09:24 PM
05-01-2004, 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by Deoudes59
Good luck with it Deoudes59...I am very interested in this stuff, especially if it's good 4 losing extra lb's. However, if these "sides" persist, you might want 2 see the doctor. (hope it's just the flu) --- Good luck man.
05-01-2004, 09:39 PM
Felt much better today.
Went to check the strength, and Bench was 225 x 18, better than yesterday's disappointment of 225 x 15. (started cycle at 225 x 20). I can feel the fast recovery. Sitting at 210lbs again. Moral of the story is: for me not to get so ambitious with cutting, not until this stuff has fully kicked in. The absolved is slowly but surely working.
Anyway, today I did legs today. My back has been funny so I didn't get too crazy on the squats (I have a partially torn patellar tendon that will require surgery in my left knee anyhow). Did 225 x 40+ - Which was fairly difficult - I'm not sure if it was the angle at which the bar was on my back.
My right shoulder seems tight - prehaps thats costs me reps on the bench - and I never got really locked in on the squats. Did stiff leg deadlifts, and I really hit some of the machines hard. Leg Curls for 20+ (for 5-6sets), Same with Leg Extension. Could hardly walk afterward.
The direction im taking this is -- eat at maintance or slightly higher. Eatting below (w/ epherda and cardio) has made me drop lbs and strength (so far)... I believe I can drop fat at maintance and reep the benefits of strength gains (when they come)
I've been spoiled from M1T, I'm expecting huge strengths right away. My concern is that im building up a tolerance to androgens - ive only done 2 M1T cycles this year (15 days each) - after being off for about 6 months. I shouldn't have a high tolerance. right....?
so my question:
When should I expect the strength gains?
* I'm trying to base it on the dosage -- whether I should up it (currently at 6mg).
Thanks guys, the cycle continues....
05-02-2004, 12:00 PM
What kind of scale do you use? Those fluxuations would drive me crazy.
I know M4 takes a while to kick in, yeah I think maybe you could front load for the first 10 days with a small amount of M1T (like 2.5 mg) or M5AA to keep the strength up during the calorie restriction.
The libido thing is far different than other report. How have you been in the past on Ephedrine? Some say that robs libido.
05-02-2004, 02:00 PM
It's insane, its just a bathroom scale, tested against an accurate scale - its pretty accurate. It does drive me crazy. I've totally f_cked my body up during cutting. I'll be the 1st to admit i didnt know what the hell i was doing.
Lost a 405 x 13 squat to 315 x less than 10. Cut with ephedra and massive ammounts of glutamine. So i'm scared to death to lose strength. I did get the strength back however.
So should I keep the 6mg dose of M4ohn steady? Or up it? I don't believe its kicked in yet, at least for strength purposes.... I'd rather not stack two Methyls, a 1-test transdermal maybe?
05-02-2004, 10:55 PM
Woke up weighing about 206, after a protein shake w/ oats and some water - I was about 209. Been feeling pretty good. Shaved body hair to maxiumize the effect of the Absolved. I appear to have more body fat than before.
Since my should had been bothering me, I am going to save back for tomorow and hit biceps, abs, and 30minutes of cardio. Hard to tell if strength is up - need to do a compound lift - will check tomorow. Took 1 ripped fuel and was really intense. Started with standing dumbell curls of 10 - with a 45sec-70sec rest period. Curled 30,35,40,45,50,55,60 in this period. Really upped my heart rate. Did other variations of curls (incline, preacher, and an iso machine). Biceps lasted about 45min, did weighted situps afterward - then 30minutes of fairly low intensive cardio.
The treadmills are really nice, they have TVs in them, DVD players, CD players, its pretty sweet (i'm new to this gym). Between Dennis Miller and Ripped Fuel, time passed quick on the cardio.
Recovery is noticably faster, killer leg workout yesterday, legs are stiff, but not too bad.
I upped the dose to 8mg, 6mg in the morning, 2mg preworkout. Tomorow I will just take all 8mg at once.
05-04-2004, 11:44 AM
Is it too early to say you like this PH? Do you think maybe you "overdid" the cutting and may have changed the potential early results? Or is it just too darned early yet?
It has been 2-days since the last post - just wondering?
05-04-2004, 12:43 PM
Yeah I did overdo the cutting, mainly due to not eatting enough carbs in the first few days - when the stuff hadn't kicked in yet.Originally Posted by EricForman
It's too early yet.... took yesterday off. Today should a better indictor of where strength is at.
I'll report back later today....
05-05-2004, 12:07 AM
05-05-2004, 12:07 AM
Weight 206-211 @ 8mg ED
Back / Calves.
I tested the strength on bench and got 225 x 15. I have a slightly strained right pectoral - so that may be the reason I can't 20 anymore. I don't feel I aggravated it any more than it already was - but I'm going to chill on the shoulder and chest lifts for the next week.
Back strength was equal to what it was at the start of the cycle. So unless I somehow lost 3-5reps of just my bench, i'm guessing I haven't lost any strength.
Did 27 minutes of low intensity cardio.
05-06-2004, 02:46 AM
Shoulders, abs, neck, cardio
I think I found a real happy median with calories, cardio, and training. Although I have a slightly strained pectoral - my shoulder strength was really really good. It's hard to say if overall strength was up, down, or the same.
Tonight I feel like the M4OHN has kicked in. The feeling I have is dramatically different from Day 8. It's like that feeling you get when a 1ad/1test product kicks in. One day nothing, 24 hours later - things have drastically changed. So i'm optimistic about M4OHN. And I'm getting leaner by the day. Most noticable in the front abs and lower chest. The lower chest has always a 'problem area'. I do hope the Ab-Solve can knock the fat off the obliques. I've been as low as ~6% BF and still had mini-handles.
Cardio was easy tonight. I took caffine instead of epherda tonight. I felt really light and did a 25minutes cardio session. I seriously could have ran at 6.6mph for an hour. But I'm not about to go crazy with this.
I'm pretty happy thus far.
My joints have been hurting, think I'm going to pick up some flax.
Also, I'm considering throwing 1-test into the mix for the last 14 days, any thoughts on this are welcome.
05-06-2004, 04:12 PM
Sounds like its starting to work out for you bro....good luck with the rest of it..
I would say if you're up for it....a dermal 1-test woud go great with your cutting stack, just keep an eye on your BP if continuing to use ephedra in conjuction with it...
05-06-2004, 05:18 PM
I'm leaning toward just keeping it m4ohn for 28 days.
No hairloss problems, quick recovery (low as 2weeks?)
Sifu said recovery was as low as 2 weeks, what have others experienced?
Anytime I use epherdra with a Methyl, I always take Hawthorn Berry. I may just take Hawthorn Berry the rest of the way anyway.
05-06-2004, 05:28 PM
Yeah, from what I've read, its been a breeze recovering from. The no hair loss thing sounds great bro....finally we got some piece of mind with that topic...Originally Posted by Deoudes59
05-06-2004, 05:47 PM
I'd add the 1-test, and deal with the hairloss for 2 weeks - but it always seems to progress beyond the cycle.
I'm currently using propecia on cycle, no negative sides.
05-06-2004, 05:53 PM
05-06-2004, 05:57 PM
Yeah, 1-test transdermal, but I don't think I am going to do that. Looked in my box of goodies and found a BDC T-1 Old School Transdermal.
[I would] add the 1-test, and deal with the hairloss for 2 weeks - but it always seems to progress beyond the cycle.
I'm currently using propecia on cycle, no negative sides.
05-06-2004, 06:14 PM
Would adding some 4oht to the 1-test transderm help out with the possible hair loss?
Last edited by psywzrd; 05-06-2004 at 06:31 PM.
05-07-2004, 11:40 PM
05-07-2004, 11:40 PM
I'm definitly feeling the strength gains. The pump is every bit as good as M1T, back is pumped so squats feel easier. Again, I have a partially torn patellar tendon in my left knee - so I try not to go to heavy on the knees. I did 315 x 20, for my 3rd set - no problem - no pain either. Followed that up with leg extensions @ 4-1-4 (4sec up,pause,4sec down) and leg curls @ 4-1-4. I am very happy. Side effect free too.
We have a winner in M4OHN - no doubt.
Covered my quads in icy hot, and did cardio for 35 minutes. No back pain either.
Here's a few options I'm considering for taking the cycle:
6weeks of M4OHN w/ 1-test for the last 2weeks ending June 8
4weeks of M4OHN then 2weeks of 1-test ending May 25
4weeks of M4OHN ending May 25
6weeks of M4OHN (higher calories for the last 2 weeks) ending June 8
5weeks of M4OHN ending June 1
5weeks of M4OHN w/ 1-test for the last 2weeks ending June 1
any thoughts are greatly appriciated, my goal is to be at least 90% recovered by June 24 (vacation).
05-08-2004, 12:09 AM
Since bloating doesn't seem to be a factor I'm considering running it with 4AD and 1test.
Got my 5 Grams from Sledge yesterday but have to wait until June or July before I start a cycle. Aaaannticipation!
05-08-2004, 10:17 AM
Honestly, I'd like to see you finish out the 6 weeks of M4 alone, while keeping the same eating and workout plan. No one has done that yet, and I think all of us would like to see what a six week cut with that would look like (before and after weight, BF%, strength increase or decrease, and overall look (more vascular, etc.).
Maybe if we all chip in we can buy you a decent scale
05-08-2004, 01:07 PM
Haha, perhaps i'll do that then - I've been as heavy as 220lbs (granted I was kind of fat), and now I'm sitting at 205-210 (much more defined) I feel if I drop below 205 I will be considered weak and worthless.
05-09-2004, 02:37 AM
Well good news folks, Bench is back at 225 x 20. I'm really pleased. No signs of stain in the right pectoral. Still shedding fat rapidly. This stuff is excellent. Side effect free. I really don't know what else to say. If this were a bulking cycle i'm thinking strength would be up a significant amount. But this is ideal for cutting. Perhaps Methyl Dien may rival it.
But this is a complete winner in my book, side effect free.
05-09-2004, 01:09 PM
05-09-2004, 02:44 PM
05-09-2004, 03:11 PM
As far as calories i'd say: in the 2400-2800 range anything less than 3000 i lose weight - with or without cardio
05-10-2004, 09:19 PM
Thank you! Im at about 3000 myself and havent really loved it thus far. Im 2 weeks in today, dosing it at about 10 mgs a day (5mg every 12 hours). I have seen slight strength increases and have seen noticeable pumps in the gym but nothing incredible. Im waiting to see how this week goes but as of now, the only major effect is lack of sleep. Its tough as hell to sleep on this ****.Originally Posted by Deoudes59
BTW....Im 6'0 193.
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