First time user logging a Havoc cycle
- 12-23-2008, 08:24 PM
First time user logging a Havoc cycle
Well guys after hangin out here daily for the last few months, I have decided to try a cycle of Havoc. I have been doing alot of reading to prepare for this adventure. I am looking to lower body fat and gain some good lean mass.
I am 30 years old 5'10'' 199# and my Accu-Measure calipers place me at about 12% bodyfat. I started working out about 4 years ago at 165 pounds, winter of 2006 I bulked to 216 naturally. Summer of 2007 I competed in my first power lifting meet just for the mear experience of it with a 1185 total.
My diet is in check it is simple and clean. My protein comes from chicken breast, tuna, eggs, lots of salmon, and EAS powder. Carbs are sweet potato, brown rice, whole grain bread, and oatmeal. Lots of green veggies for filler.
I plan to do a detailed log of the next 2 months, I will get some starting measurments and pics posted before I start.
My ultimate goal is to get up to 205 with my bodyfat in the sub 10% range.
So here is a snapshot of what I have planned for the next 2 months supplements. Any advice is appreciated.
RPN Havoc Dosing schedule was edited on 1/10/2009,,so some of the below comments dont apply to this schedule.
Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support-2 scoops daily for 2 weeks, then 2 scoops daily during cycle, then continued into PCT till 2nd tub is gone.
MRM BCAA+G- Post workout
Now Foods Taurine- 3 grams pre and post workout
Universal Animal Pak- 1 Pack before bed
Universal Uni-Liver- about 16 tabs daily
Now Foods Fish Oil- Before bed
My PCT Looks like this
Liquid Tamoxifen Citrate- 40,30,20,10
Annobolic Innovations Cycle Support- As listed above
Now Foods Relora- 300mg 4 times daily
MRM BCAA+G- Post workout
Universal Nutrition Storm- Post workout
Universal Nutrition Shock Therapy- Preworkout
Get Diesel Test Hardcore- Dosed to my liking
Last edited by ffmedic32; 01-10-2009 at 03:32 PM. Reason: changed dosing
- 12-23-2008, 08:51 PM
havoc is so mild
i'd just start off at 30mg if i were you
then go to 40 on week 3
even 50mg if you like
ramping up from such as low dose is such a waist of time IMO and will make your gains take longer to kick in.
however, tapering down is useful for a head start in recovery IMO but DEFINATLY not needed for havoc.
try having animal pak with your preworkout meal
just a suggestion
i like it.
- 12-24-2008, 12:14 AM
I agree with ibanezman08 totally.
Ive been on 30mg a week since start (one week so far)--- its mild--and I can see some changes, better if not insane pumps!!!
Sweats at nite began last nite but Im drinking tons of water and eating alot of clean food------alot.
I may go to 40 week 2 for sure.
12-24-2008, 12:59 AM
Yeah I have been on Havoc for about 3 weeks just 30mg and im thinking of going off because I have noticed much, Could be a different situation for you but thats my opinion. Mild very mild I recommend 30 to start and 40 after a couple weeks.
12-24-2008, 09:30 AM
Looks good but I would edit out the name of the comapny that you got the SERM could be considered source posting.
12-24-2008, 09:40 AM
12-24-2008, 11:12 AM
people who say they gained 15lbs off of havoc/epistane are victims of placebo.
12-24-2008, 11:26 AM
Or victims of hard work... If it's the latter, the end results are still nice if they aren't inflated by water/fat etc.
12-24-2008, 11:57 AM
I'm with Jay.
There is no designated schema for gains on different prohormones. Some won't react much to epithio while others might surge on it. Everybody reacts differently.
12-24-2008, 12:20 PM
12-24-2008, 12:22 PM
12-24-2008, 05:01 PM
ok, looking back at my statements i would like to have a chance to reword my opinion.
if somebody gained 15lbs of mostly lean mass while on epistane/havoc, that would be mostly due to the bodybuilding lifestyle/hardwork. havoc should not get all the credit.
however, if you platoe, your diet is perfect, training couldn't be harder and you just can't gain anymore naturally, havoc won't slap on 15lbs in 4 weeks.
12-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Well I have been debating what kind of routine to use during this cycle. I think I am gonna try a 4 day a week Westside routine. I will also do cardio 3-4 days a week. I am awaiting the ar***** of my cycle support, once it gets here I will get this log rolling. I did ME lifts this past week to see where I am at pre cycle.
Not my best numbers ever, but I has some major down time this summer. So I am getting back into the groove.
12-26-2008, 05:32 PM
I ran a 6 week cycle. Based on my experience I would start at 20mg the first couple of days and finish week 1 at 30mg. I personally feel that 40mg is the sweet spot and bet you will regret the cycle if you don't take at least that amount. Havoc (Epistane in my case) was pretty mild and you have the support supplements in order which should ensure you maximize the cycle.
12-26-2008, 06:27 PM
12-26-2008, 06:35 PM
i started gaining at 40mg
i think you can just start at 40mg from day one and run that for 6 weeks.
really, doing that is not as harsh as people will tell you as far as sides, liver toxicity, and shutdown.
even if ran at a higher dose, the shutdown and sides are so mild.
trust me, i have experience with the real deal like dbol and anadrol and i can tell when something is shutting me down.
havoc is very mild
but use caution regardless.
i'd say 40mg is a safe and effective dose.
however, running that for 6 weeks can be rather expensive IMO. that's why i like to go with something a little stronger so you don't have to dose as high but that's just me.
12-26-2008, 07:18 PM
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
Strongest On The Market
RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
12-27-2008, 06:24 PM
I was bloated, too, but I don't mind. I am bulking. Even w/o epi or any other PS I woulda still gained weight and gone up on my lifts.....just not so much so fast.
I'm gonna go over the whole spiel after PCT (3 weeks left) and see what I've got to keep.
But I went up to 50mg for the last week and a half, and only then experienced back pumps and lethargy. But it was worth it.
I give a f**K!!
12-28-2008, 07:52 AM
12-28-2008, 10:50 AM
12-29-2008, 12:40 PM
12-29-2008, 01:07 PM
Check out "epistane difference" in the pics section if you haven't already. It was a before and after of my low dose epi cycle about a year ago. I loved this stuff.
12-29-2008, 02:06 PM
Last edited by ffmedic32; 12-29-2008 at 02:07 PM. Reason: pics did not attach
12-29-2008, 02:31 PM
Dec 29, Starting day of my new routine and cycle support.
Workout--Dynamic Upper Body Day
135 Barbell Weight + Green Bands(approx 150 Pounds of resistance) 10 sets of 3 reps(Sets under 3 seconds)
Incline DB Press
Lying Kettlebell Presses
26# KB 6 sets of 10 reps
Single Arm Rear Delt Flye
DB Side Lateral Raise
DB Front Raise
Standing High Cable Crunch
2 sets of 30
3 sets of 12
12-29-2008, 02:56 PM
12-29-2008, 05:53 PM
12-30-2008, 04:28 PM
Workout--Max Effort Lower Body
Box Squats off a 14" Box
Romanian Deadlifts off a 4" Box
Reverse Hyper Extension(Body Weight Only since lower back was still sore)
4 sets of 10
Bent Over Barbell Row
Bi-Lateral Hammer Curls
Abs--P90X Ab Ripper X DVD 11 exercises all 25 reps,painful,LOL
12-30-2008, 06:23 PM
hey man i have very similar stats to you..and am currently on a havoc cycle.. i messed around with the dosages starting low and bumping up.. if i could do it over i would have started higher and ran that mg right through.. i am starting my last week now and have decided to bump up to 50mg.. as i felt havoc was pretty mild and didnt start seeing anything till 40mg... i was debating just staying at 40mg for the last week(25daycycle) and just bridge with 10mg superdrol for 2 weeks.. but will prob save this for another time
12-30-2008, 07:38 PM
I just finished a cycle of Havoc and finished off the last 2 weeks with MMV2 and had very good gains. 40mg was the sweetspot for me for sure. I ran it 10mg first day, 20mg rest of first week. 30mg second week and 40mg third and fourth week. I noticed my best gains on my third week. 30lbs on bench and around 15lbs with a solid and hearty diet. I kept 10lbs and retained 80% strength. This is excellent stuff.
For PCT, I would not go to 40mg with Tamoxifene. I went 20/20/10/10 and that was plenty. Everything else looks good and you seem to have everything lined up nicely. You will see very noticeable gains at the Monday of week 3. Maybe sooner. Good luck and I'll be checkin' in. Cheers, angel77
12-30-2008, 07:40 PM
i will say this...it WAS very fun being on epi.
it makes you feel good.
12-30-2008, 08:40 PM
After receiving all the advice I will bump the dose up a bit,,From what I am hearing I think I might just run 40mg. What do you guys think of running the first 3 days at 20mg, then bump up and run 40mg for 21 days. Would that be effective for a 24 day cycle? Guess the other option would be to purchase a 2nd bottle of Havoc, which I would rather avoid if possible.
12-30-2008, 08:42 PM
if that's what you want to do, go right ahead.
if you want to hear my opinion, well, considering havoc's half-life, it would make more sense to dose 10mg every 8 hours so that would be 30mg. it's more anabolic to keep it running like that every 6-10 hours.
12-30-2008, 08:53 PM
12-30-2008, 09:20 PM
12-30-2008, 09:28 PM
well, sounds like a good plan to me
12-30-2008, 09:37 PM
Don't forget to pick up taurine as well if you havent already. Higher doses tend to bring cramping and painful pumps.
12-30-2008, 09:39 PM
I bumped my up to 40mg on day 9 and now its day 13 so its 5 days on 40mg and I def. feel tighter and more pumped and more HUNGRY/Thirsty
sides though have increased: sweats at nite, feeling warm most of the day but being able to sleep fine....no acne.
If sweats/sides get worse im going down to 30 again.
Have another bottle and would like to go 5 weeks if possible.
Also today went to MD for bloodwork and will get results on Monday.
12-30-2008, 10:16 PM
12-30-2008, 10:18 PM
12-31-2008, 08:17 AM
Didn't need Taurine for back pumps. I would spread your dose out but I wouldn't take after 6pm. It rattled my sleep a bit when I took after 6. I dosed 10mg at 6am. 20mg pre-workout at 11:00 and 10mg at 5:00pm and blood levels were consistant throughout. Havoc affected my HDL (good cholesterol).It was very low after cycle (in the 20's)but LDL wasn't too bad at all. Keep your Cycle Support going for sure.
40mg should be fine but don't think that you have to jump right to 40mg immediately. ramping it up 20 for a few days, 30 for up to a week and 40 from then on shouls allow 1 bottle to do the trick and gains wouldn't be hindered a bit. Building it up as opposed to jumping to 40mg right away may prevent some sides. Hope this helps. Cheers, angel77
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