First time user logging a Havoc cycle

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    First time user logging a Havoc cycle


    Well guys after hangin out here daily for the last few months, I have decided to try a cycle of Havoc. I have been doing alot of reading to prepare for this adventure. I am looking to lower body fat and gain some good lean mass.

    I am 30 years old 5'10'' 199# and my Accu-Measure calipers place me at about 12% bodyfat. I started working out about 4 years ago at 165 pounds, winter of 2006 I bulked to 216 naturally. Summer of 2007 I competed in my first power lifting meet just for the mear experience of it with a 1185 total.

    My diet is in check it is simple and clean. My protein comes from chicken breast, tuna, eggs, lots of salmon, and EAS powder. Carbs are sweet potato, brown rice, whole grain bread, and oatmeal. Lots of green veggies for filler.

    I plan to do a detailed log of the next 2 months, I will get some starting measurments and pics posted before I start.

    My ultimate goal is to get up to 205 with my bodyfat in the sub 10% range.

    So here is a snapshot of what I have planned for the next 2 months supplements. Any advice is appreciated.

    RPN Havoc Dosing schedule was edited on 1/10/2009,,so some of the below comments dont apply to this schedule.
    20,20,20,30,30,30,30
    30,30,30,30,30,30,30
    40,40,40,40,40,40,40
    40,40,40,40,40,40,40
    40,40,40,40,40,40,40

    Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support-2 scoops daily for 2 weeks, then 2 scoops daily during cycle, then continued into PCT till 2nd tub is gone.
    MRM BCAA+G- Post workout
    Now Foods Taurine- 3 grams pre and post workout
    Universal Animal Pak- 1 Pack before bed
    Universal Uni-Liver- about 16 tabs daily
    Now Foods Fish Oil- Before bed

    My PCT Looks like this

    Liquid Tamoxifen Citrate- 40,30,20,10
    Annobolic Innovations Cycle Support- As listed above
    Now Foods Relora- 300mg 4 times daily
    MRM BCAA+G- Post workout
    Universal Nutrition Storm- Post workout
    Universal Nutrition Shock Therapy- Preworkout
    Get Diesel Test Hardcore- Dosed to my liking
    Last edited by ffmedic32; 01-10-2009 at 04:32 PM. Reason: changed dosing

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    havoc is so mild
    i'd just start off at 30mg if i were you
    then go to 40 on week 3
    even 50mg if you like

    ramping up from such as low dose is such a waist of time IMO and will make your gains take longer to kick in.
    however, tapering down is useful for a head start in recovery IMO but DEFINATLY not needed for havoc.

    try having animal pak with your preworkout meal

    just a suggestion
    i like it.
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    I agree with ibanezman08 totally.

    Ive been on 30mg a week since start (one week so far)--- its mild--and I can see some changes, better if not insane pumps!!!

    Sweats at nite began last nite but Im drinking tons of water and eating alot of clean food------alot.

    I may go to 40 week 2 for sure.
    •   
       

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    Yeah I have been on Havoc for about 3 weeks just 30mg and im thinking of going off because I have noticed much, Could be a different situation for you but thats my opinion. Mild very mild I recommend 30 to start and 40 after a couple weeks.
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    Looks good but I would edit out the name of the comapny that you got the SERM could be considered source posting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    Looks good but I would edit out the name of the comapny that you got the SERM could be considered source posting.
    Will do, thanks for the advice.
    I thought since it was a legal purchase it would not be a big deal, but I will follow your advice, better safe than sorry..
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    people who say they gained 15lbs off of havoc/epistane are victims of placebo.
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    Or victims of hard work... If it's the latter, the end results are still nice if they aren't inflated by water/fat etc.
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    I'm with Jay.

    There is no designated schema for gains on different prohormones. Some won't react much to epithio while others might surge on it. Everybody reacts differently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezman08 View Post
    people who say they gained 15lbs off of havoc/epistane are victims of placebo.
    Do I sense some Havoc hating????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    Or victims of hard work... If it's the latter, the end results are still nice if they aren't inflated by water/fat etc.
    If I could end up with a 5 pound lean gain off this cycle, I wont care if it was Havoc or just hard work. Either way 5 pounds is 5 pounds and would be a happy mofo....
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    ok, looking back at my statements i would like to have a chance to reword my opinion.

    if somebody gained 15lbs of mostly lean mass while on epistane/havoc, that would be mostly due to the bodybuilding lifestyle/hardwork. havoc should not get all the credit.
    however, if you platoe, your diet is perfect, training couldn't be harder and you just can't gain anymore naturally, havoc won't slap on 15lbs in 4 weeks.
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    Well I have been debating what kind of routine to use during this cycle. I think I am gonna try a 4 day a week Westside routine. I will also do cardio 3-4 days a week. I am awaiting the arrival of my cycle support, once it gets here I will get this log rolling. I did ME lifts this past week to see where I am at pre cycle.

    Bench- 280
    Dead- 415
    Squat- 390

    Not my best numbers ever, but I has some major down time this summer. So I am getting back into the groove.
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    I ran a 6 week cycle. Based on my experience I would start at 20mg the first couple of days and finish week 1 at 30mg. I personally feel that 40mg is the sweet spot and bet you will regret the cycle if you don't take at least that amount. Havoc (Epistane in my case) was pretty mild and you have the support supplements in order which should ensure you maximize the cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver3CSRT8 View Post
    I ran a 6 week cycle. Based on my experience I would start at 20mg the first couple of days and finish week 1 at 30mg. I personally feel that 40mg is the sweet spot and bet you will regret the cycle if you don't take at least that amount. Havoc (Epistane in my case) was pretty mild and you have the support supplements in order which should ensure you maximize the cycle.
    This seems to be the only item I am getting advice on so it must be important and correct. With that said I believe ya'll have convinced me to bump my dose up to maximize results.

    Thanks for the help!
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    i started gaining at 40mg
    i think you can just start at 40mg from day one and run that for 6 weeks.
    really, doing that is not as harsh as people will tell you as far as sides, liver toxicity, and shutdown.
    even if ran at a higher dose, the shutdown and sides are so mild.
    trust me, i have experience with the real deal like dbol and anadrol and i can tell when something is shutting me down.

    havoc is very mild

    but use caution regardless.

    i'd say 40mg is a safe and effective dose.

    however, running that for 6 weeks can be rather expensive IMO. that's why i like to go with something a little stronger so you don't have to dose as high but that's just me.

    good luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezman08 View Post
    people who say they gained 15lbs off of havoc/epistane are victims of placebo.
    Placebo kicks ass!! Oh yeah, 15.5 gained on my 5-weeker of EPI

    I was bloated, too, but I don't mind. I am bulking. Even w/o epi or any other PS I woulda still gained weight and gone up on my lifts.....just not so much so fast.

    I'm gonna go over the whole spiel after PCT (3 weeks left) and see what I've got to keep.

    But I went up to 50mg for the last week and a half, and only then experienced back pumps and lethargy. But it was worth it.
    True story:

    I give a f**K!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynaferd View Post
    Placebo kicks ass!! Oh yeah, 15.5 gained on my 5-weeker of EPI

    I was bloated, too, but I don't mind. I am bulking. Even w/o epi or any other PS I woulda still gained weight and gone up on my lifts.....just not so much so fast.

    I'm gonna go over the whole spiel after PCT (3 weeks left) and see what I've got to keep.

    But I went up to 50mg for the last week and a half, and only then experienced back pumps and lethargy. But it was worth it.
    WOW,,,,those are some impressive gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezman08 View Post
    i started gaining at 40mg
    i think you can just start at 40mg from day one and run that for 6 weeks.
    really, doing that is not as harsh as people will tell you as far as sides, liver toxicity, and shutdown.
    even if ran at a higher dose, the shutdown and sides are so mild.
    trust me, i have experience with the real deal like dbol and anadrol and i can tell when something is shutting me down.

    havoc is very mild

    but use caution regardless.

    i'd say 40mg is a safe and effective dose.

    however, running that for 6 weeks can be rather expensive IMO. that's why i like to go with something a little stronger so you don't have to dose as high but that's just me.

    good luck


    heya, glad to hear your input on this esp. with your experience---into 2nd week Havoc and at 30 and will go 40 tommorow -------thnx Ibanezman08!
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    I gained 11 lbs and it was hard work but the Havoc did work very well.
    Ask me for samples of the new RecoverPRO and Maniac. 3Z is coming July 1st Facebook for more info and maybe a great deal on it coming.
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    Check out "epistane difference" in the pics section if you haven't already. It was a before and after of my low dose epi cycle about a year ago. I loved this stuff.
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    OK The time is near to get this cycle rolling, I am starting Cycle Support today. So in 2 weeks the Havoc will be flowing, I am really looking forward to this adventure. I took some starting pics today, I have no clue how to pose so please dont judge me on that. LOL



    Last edited by ffmedic32; 12-29-2008 at 03:07 PM. Reason: pics did not attach
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    Dec 29, Starting day of my new routine and cycle support.

    Weight-199.6

    Workout--Dynamic Upper Body Day

    Flat Bench
    Barx20
    Green Bandsx10
    135 Barbell Weight + Green Bands(approx 150 Pounds of resistance) 10 sets of 3 reps(Sets under 3 seconds)
    Incline DB Press
    35x30, 35x25,30x20
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    DONE
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    Look good bro give it hell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb4life View Post
    Check out "epistane difference" in the pics section if you haven't already. It was a before and after of my low dose epi cycle about a year ago. I loved this stuff.

    yes dude, you did make AWESOME progress man!
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    Dec 30th

    Workout--Max Effort Lower Body

    Box Squats off a 14" Box
    225x2
    275x2
    295x2
    315x2
    335x2
    335x2
    335x2
    350x2
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    hey man i have very similar stats to you..and am currently on a havoc cycle.. i messed around with the dosages starting low and bumping up.. if i could do it over i would have started higher and ran that mg right through.. i am starting my last week now and have decided to bump up to 50mg.. as i felt havoc was pretty mild and didnt start seeing anything till 40mg... i was debating just staying at 40mg for the last week(25daycycle) and just bridge with 10mg superdrol for 2 weeks.. but will prob save this for another time
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    Exclamation


    I just finished a cycle of Havoc and finished off the last 2 weeks with MMV2 and had very good gains. 40mg was the sweetspot for me for sure. I ran it 10mg first day, 20mg rest of first week. 30mg second week and 40mg third and fourth week. I noticed my best gains on my third week. 30lbs on bench and around 15lbs with a solid and hearty diet. I kept 10lbs and retained 80% strength. This is excellent stuff.

    For PCT, I would not go to 40mg with Tamoxifene. I went 20/20/10/10 and that was plenty. Everything else looks good and you seem to have everything lined up nicely. You will see very noticeable gains at the Monday of week 3. Maybe sooner. Good luck and I'll be checkin' in. Cheers, angel77
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    i will say this...it WAS very fun being on epi.

    it makes you feel good.
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    After receiving all the advice I will bump the dose up a bit,,From what I am hearing I think I might just run 40mg. What do you guys think of running the first 3 days at 20mg, then bump up and run 40mg for 21 days. Would that be effective for a 24 day cycle? Guess the other option would be to purchase a 2nd bottle of Havoc, which I would rather avoid if possible.
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    if that's what you want to do, go right ahead.

    if you want to hear my opinion, well, considering havoc's half-life, it would make more sense to dose 10mg every 8 hours so that would be 30mg. it's more anabolic to keep it running like that every 6-10 hours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezman08 View Post
    if that's what you want to do, go right ahead.

    if you want to hear my opinion, well, considering havoc's half-life, it would make more sense to dose 10mg every 8 hours so that would be 30mg. it's more anabolic to keep it running like that every 6-10 hours.
    My plan was to spread the dose out over the course of the day. I lift in the morning so I was thinking of taking 20mg preworkout(around 8am), then 10mg around 2pm, and then the last 10mg around 8pm.
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    Good luck!
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    well, sounds like a good plan to me
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    Don't forget to pick up taurine as well if you havent already. Higher doses tend to bring cramping and painful pumps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic32 View Post
    After receiving all the advice I will bump the dose up a bit,,From what I am hearing I think I might just run 40mg. What do you guys think of running the first 3 days at 20mg, then bump up and run 40mg for 21 days. Would that be effective for a 24 day cycle? Guess the other option would be to purchase a 2nd bottle of Havoc, which I would rather avoid if possible.

    I bumped my up to 40mg on day 9 and now its day 13 so its 5 days on 40mg and I def. feel tighter and more pumped and more HUNGRY/Thirsty

    sides though have increased: sweats at nite, feeling warm most of the day but being able to sleep fine....no acne.

    If sweats/sides get worse im going down to 30 again.

    Have another bottle and would like to go 5 weeks if possible.

    Also today went to MD for bloodwork and will get results on Monday.


    Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by crader View Post
    Don't forget to pick up taurine as well if you havent already. Higher doses tend to bring cramping and painful pumps.
    good idea

    although i never got back pumps from havoc. and i was dosing as high as 80mg. but i've heard of a lot of people complaining about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boo99 View Post
    I bumped my up to 40mg on day 9 and now its day 13 so its 5 days on 40mg and I def. feel tighter and more pumped and more HUNGRY/Thirsty

    sides though have increased: sweats at nite, feeling warm most of the day but being able to sleep fine....no acne.

    If sweats/sides get worse im going down to 30 again.

    Have another bottle and would like to go 5 weeks if possible.

    Also today went to MD for bloodwork and will get results on Monday.


    Good luck!
    can't wait to hear how your blood work turns out!

    i never got night sweats on havoc

    i did on trenadrol though. to tell you the truth, the heat/sweats didn't bother me much. i just delt with it.

    but if it bothers you, yeah, i suggest going back down to 30mg.
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    Didn't need Taurine for back pumps. I would spread your dose out but I wouldn't take after 6pm. It rattled my sleep a bit when I took after 6. I dosed 10mg at 6am. 20mg pre-workout at 11:00 and 10mg at 5:00pm and blood levels were consistant throughout. Havoc affected my HDL (good cholesterol).It was very low after cycle (in the 20's)but LDL wasn't too bad at all. Keep your Cycle Support going for sure.
    40mg should be fine but don't think that you have to jump right to 40mg immediately. ramping it up 20 for a few days, 30 for up to a week and 40 from then on shouls allow 1 bottle to do the trick and gains wouldn't be hindered a bit. Building it up as opposed to jumping to 40mg right away may prevent some sides. Hope this helps. Cheers, angel77
  

  
 

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