nunes "montana method" cycle log

nunes

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ok my friends , I`m not a long cycle apologist , I know that big gains come with long cycles but personally I want to be healthy and above all I want my balls in shape when I reach my 60`s , for me bodybuilding is being in shape , big but healthy.
I`m not a mass monster but I`m only 8% bf in a 5`7 180 lbs frame so I`m almost satisfied with my results , but 190 lbs its my objective with this cycle.
My cycle its based in the Montana method (Steroids for health-SHORT CYCLES Explained : Tupincho.net - In english) with some adjustments, so lets see:

compounds:
injectable primo, andriol, mass tabs(or phera), anavar, proviron

dosage schedule:
week 1
day 1,3,5,7-100mg injectable primo
ed-6 andriol and 1 mass tabs
week2
day9,11,13-100mg inj.primo
ed-6 andriol and 1 mass tabs
week3
day 15, 17, 19, 21-100mg inj.primo
ed-25mg anavar
week 4
ed-25 mg proviron on the am for 5 days

and then PCT:
First 2 weeks:
nolva 20 mg ed , post cycle support from AI and M-stack
last 2 weeks
post cycle support from AI ,200 mg formestane ed and T-bol from thermolife beginning in week 4(when m-stack is over)

ANCILIARIES:
-SAMe
-essential forte n
-Thermolife Liver Longer
-NOW Foods Cholesterol Support
-Primaforce ProLiver
-liv52.

I will start this cycle on the first of September and I still have some doubts on:
-using or not NO, creatine on cycle
-using mass tabs or phera on the first 2 weeks

until I start I`m open to suggestions , so c`mon bros say what you have to say

1 note , the use of andriol is to fight testosterone depletion sides , I`m not expecting big gains from it but keep sides such as lethargy out
 
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tnick7

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Cool bro, I'm in for sure :D

Have you used mass tabs or phera before? Would you consider SD since its only 2 weeks?

For the NO I dont think you will need it, creatine should be fine IMO, and continue it during PCT and then start the NO maybe

Best of luck bro!!!!!

:bb3:
 
nunes

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Cool bro, I'm in for sure :D

Have you used mass tabs or phera before? Would you consider SD since its only 2 weeks?

For the NO I dont think you will need it, creatine should be fine IMO, and continue it during PCT and then start the NO maybe

Best of luck bro!!!!!

:bb3:
no, I`m a mass, phera virgin ,the reason I didn't thought in SD its because i have phera and mass in my arsenal and since mass is (at least its what gurus say) similar to SD I think the results will not vary a lot.
My big doubt is what compound will stack better with the primo?
 
tnick7

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no, I`m a mass, phera virgin ,the reason I didn't thought in SD its because i have phera and mass in my arsenal and since mass is (at least its what gurus say) similar to SD I think the results will not vary a lot.
My big doubt is what compound will stack better with the primo?

hmm, I am too! IDK what would work best with primo, I honestly dont know much about it :eek: I know people who have run mass tabs an it really go going after 2 weeks or so and it seems the same with phera. The two fastest compounds I have heard of are SD and Kilo Trenadrol.

Of the two I would probably lean towards mass tabs. I know a lot of people who ran them with great results and very little sides. I have also seen some blood work on the forums and liver values didn't seem to elevated.:thumbsup:
 
nunes

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hmm, I am too! IDK what would work best with primo, I honestly dont know much about it :eek: I know people who have run mass tabs an it really go going after 2 weeks or so and it seems the same with phera. The two fastest compounds I have heard of are SD and Kilo Trenadrol.

Of the two I would probably lean towards mass tabs. I know a lot of people who ran them with great results and very little sides. I have also seen some blood work on the forums and liver values didn't seem to elevated.:thumbsup:
skipping the var and go on week 3 with mass its a possibility also, my intention was to do a kick start with mass and minimize suppression skipping it to var but all options are open at this time.
do you know if mass was very suppressive in the blood work you saw?
 
Ziquor

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Awesome Nunes, you know I'm in bro. Var should ROCK :thumbsup:
 
tnick7

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skipping the var and go on week 3 with mass its a possibility also, my intention was to do a kick start with mass and minimize suppression skipping it to var but all options are open at this time.
do you know if mass was very suppressive in the blood work you saw?
Here is some blood work from BB forums, but it wasnt specifically for the cycle so there is not test levels:

PRE:

Cholesterol: 191
Triglycerides: 183 (long story behind that)
HDLC: 34
LDL: 120
Non-HDLC: 157
Chol/HDL Ratio: 5.6

LIVER:
ALT (SGPT): 36
AST (SGOT): 24

POST:

Cholesterol: 197
Triglycerides: 94
HDLC: 19
LDL: 159
Non-HDLC: 178
Chol/HDL Ratio: 10.4

LIVER:
ALT (SGPT): 36
AST (SGOT): 25



I cant remember any more. If I find more I will post them too, but I do think its fairly suppressive.
 
Trauma1

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I'm here to support you brother nunes! :D

Good luck buddy!

:bb3:
 
nunes

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Here is some blood work from BB forums, but it wasnt specifically for the cycle so there is not test levels:

PRE:

Cholesterol: 191
Triglycerides: 183 (long story behind that)
HDLC: 34
LDL: 120
Non-HDLC: 157
Chol/HDL Ratio: 5.6

LIVER:
ALT (SGPT): 36
AST (SGOT): 24

POST:

Cholesterol: 197
Triglycerides: 94
HDLC: 19
LDL: 159
Non-HDLC: 178
Chol/HDL Ratio: 10.4

LIVER:
ALT (SGPT): 36
AST (SGOT): 25



I cant remember any more. If I find more I will post them too, but I do think its fairly suppressive.
:jaw:, man that results are unbelievable, seems like there was no methyl in that stuff, did the guy had any gains?
 
tnick7

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:jaw:, man that results are unbelievable, seems like there was no methyl in that stuff, did the guy had any gains?

The thread says gained 6lb and dropped 3% bf on a recomp. This blood work is a few days into PCT using nolvadex @ 40mg with Life Support.
 
nunes

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Awesome Nunes, you know I'm in bro. Var should ROCK :thumbsup:
I'm here to support you brother nunes! :D

Good luck buddy!

:bb3:
great to have you guys supporting this cycle, talk about gurus...

bros I would really appreciate your "guru"opinion on my doubts :
-phera or masstabs?
-creatine while on or keep it for pct?
-and by the way , formestane with or without food?

By the way this is gonna be a mini log, I will only do weekly updates and with final blood work, I don't want to bother you guys:thumbsup:
 
nunes

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The thread says gained 6lb and dropped 3% bf on a recomp. This blood work is a few days into PCT using nolvadex @ 40mg with Life Support.
great results tnick, mass 1, phera 0
 
mattikus

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Interesting cycle Nunes. Fyi var took almost 2 weeks before I noticed it at 40 mg a day. Also, Mass Tabs are very very good imo. I like Mass Tabs better than Phera. Just not worth 120 bills or whatever they're selling for on ebay.
 
nunes

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Interesting cycle Nunes. Fyi var took almost 2 weeks before I noticed it at 40 mg a day. Also, Mass Tabs are very very good imo. I like Mass Tabs better than Phera. Just not worth 120 bills or whatever they're selling for on ebay.
great to have you here bro.
I stock up mass tabs before the first ban, here in Europe the price was on a normal range
 
just93

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yyyaaaahhhh go nunes!!! lol, I dont know why im cheering!! but still, GO NUNES YYAAAAHHHH!!!!

but seriously thats alot of stuff your gunna take......... GO NUNES YAAAHHHHH!:woohoo::whip::D:D:bruce3:
 
thundergod

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great to have you guys supporting this cycle, talk about gurus...
bros I would really appreciate your "guru"opinion on my doubts :
-phera or masstabs?
-creatine while on or keep it for pct?
-and by the way , formestane with or without food?
Well, I'm definitely no guru, but I have a few opinions nonetheless. 1) Masstabs 2) Creatine for PCT, not on-cycle 3) Formestane close to bed time with a little food, especially healthy fats. Myself, I always use it in a transdermal. I highly recommend that delivery system for Formestane. It's much cheaper this way also. I'm subbed for this thing bro. Go at it with the intensity of Goku when he hit super-saiyan level 3!!! :head:
 
just93

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whats a goku?????? is it Chinese??
(seriously)
 
thundergod

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whats a goku?????? is it Chinese??
(seriously)
It's the character in nunes' avatar. He's on the cartoon Dragon Ball Z. And he's super cool!! :cool:
 
just93

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oh i was wondering what that was lol!
i will have to check this guy out, i never liked cartoons but he looks jacked (no homo)
 
Ziquor

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That's crazy - between all the chemists claiming that a methyl version of Stenbolone was never manufactured, along with IDS writing whatever they wished on their packages, combined with people saying they had little to no sides from Mass Tabs - I personally always theorized they were plain Stenbolone. Looking at Sten's structure it'd likely still have enough bio-availability to still be active orally without having to be methylated. Though methylation would make Sten like 10x stronger. These blood tests above go right along with that theory. If this stuff really was methyl sten, it'd basically be nothing more than 2-Methyl M1T, which would logically mean it'd be more liver toxic than M1T and noticeably more toxic than S-Drol. Obviously it works which is why I got some a while back. I'd love to see more cycles with bloodwork :thumbsup:
 
Ziquor

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Well, I'm definitely no guru, but I have a few opinions nonetheless. 1) Masstabs 2) Creatine for PCT, not on-cycle 3) Formestane close to bed time with a little food, especially healthy fats. Myself, I always use it in a transdermal. I highly recommend that delivery system for Formestane. It's much cheaper this way also. I'm subbed for this thing bro. Go at it with the intensity of Goku when he hit super-saiyan level 3!!! :head:

Definitely with TG in regards to the Form transdermally. It has very little oral bio-availability so you need a very high dose to equal a dermal dose.
 
nunes

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Well, I'm definitely no guru, but I have a few opinions nonetheless. 1) Masstabs 2) Creatine for PCT, not on-cycle 3) Formestane close to bed time with a little food, especially healthy fats. Myself, I always use it in a transdermal. I highly recommend that delivery system for Formestane. It's much cheaper this way also. I'm subbed for this thing bro. Go at it with the intensity of Goku when he hit super-saiyan level 3!!! :head:
welcome my friend and thanks for your advice that I`ll follow:
as you guys know the cycle will only begin on first of September but I post it now cause I really want to see opinions on the choices, so you guys will have to wait 1 more week , about the cycle, mass tabs is the chosen, creatine and NO boosters only on pct,see the formestane comments on next post.
your experience its one valuable tool my friend


by the way I will "at least" become like the picture bellow:
 

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nunes

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Definitely with TG in regards to the Form transdermally. It has very little oral bio-availability so you need a very high dose to equal a dermal dose.
yeah Z I dont know if they are methyl or not but as you said , everybody say they work and since my last cycle was harsh to the liver maybe this time mass its better than phera.
you`ll have your bloodwork posted in the end...
about the formestane , well the big problem is that I cant get it bulk on Europe and its impossible to get pass my country's customs cause it need a prescription here, but little bottles sometimes pass without inspection and I ordered the new bcs formadex (in caps), I also saw this study where is said that 250 mg oral ed works well :


Title: An endocrine and pharmacokinetic study of four oral doses of formestane in postmenopausal breast cancer patients. Author: Dowsett, M : Mehta, A : King, N : Smith, I E : Powles, T J : Stein, R C : Coombes, R C
Citation: Eur-J-Cancer. 1992; 28(2-3): 415-20
Abstract: 43 postmenopausal breast cancer patients were treated orally with the aromatase inhibitor formestane (4-hydroxyandrostenedione) at daily doses of 62.5, 125, 250 or 500 mg for 4 weeks followed by 250 mg daily for a further 4 weeks. For some patients, 62.5 mg did not suppress serum oestradiol levels maximally. The doses of 250 and 500 mg did not differ in their effectiveness. Oestrone levels were suppressed by all doses of formestane but no consistent changes of aldosterone, cortisol or 17-hydroxyprogesterone occurred. Serum levels of sex hormone binding globulin fell by about 15% during treatment with 250 mg formestane reflecting its minor androgenic activity. The maximum concentration and area under the curve of serum formestane levels after the first dose varied in an approximately linear manner with dose. It is concluded that formestane is an effective, specific suppressant of oestradiol levels via the oral route requiring no more than 250 mg to be given daily
An endocrine and pharmacokinetic study of four oral doses of formestane in postmenopausal breast cancer patients.

do you guys think 6-oxo is better or stick with what I have?
yyyaaaahhhh go nunes!!! lol, I dont know why im cheering!! but still, GO NUNES YYAAAAHHHH!!!!

but seriously thats alot of stuff your gunna take......... GO NUNES YAAAHHHHH!:woohoo::whip::D:D:bruce3:
lol,thanks for the strong support bro and yes its a lot of stuff but that`s the concept of short cycles(see the link in my first post), and unfortunately I respond very bad to orals so I have to push it hard , but really that's not a very harsh cycle this one , apart from mass tabs (?) everything is very mild
 
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just93

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haha yah those mass tabs work but almost made my friends balls disappear lol, hes a dumb ass and didnt use cycle support and proper pct also.........i told him to get Nolvadex and even gave him the damn site and chemical name, and he friggen orders Novedex XT from Gaspari........RETARD cough cough**
any way good luck brah i will watch closely!
 
thundergod

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I ordered the new bcs formadex (in caps), I also saw this study where is said that 250 mg oral ed works well :
The doses of 250 and 500 mg did not differ in their effectiveness. the oral route requiring no more than 250 mg to be given daily [/B]
[do you guys think 6-oxo is better or stick with what I have?
Stick with what you already have. I've seen that study before also. It's just nice to be able to use only 80 to 100 mg. transdermally and get better absorption as well. But the oral will be fine. Take the whole 250 mg. dose at once. More will get through first pass metabolism this way. And take it at night with plenty of healthy efa's. Take it with either 10 grams of fish oil or 1 tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil (14 grams of good fats). This will also aid the absorption. You'll love the formestane nunes!! I do. Form is stronger than 6-OXO (trione). :thumbsup:
 
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i think 1 week of var and 1 week of proviron is a waste. Too short for both. Either run the mass/phera longer or you could stack them both from the start.

Try the mass tabs, although ive never used it maybe you could give more feedback.

Creatine i would just run it oncycle and PCT, I dont really understand too much why people stop it oncycle. Even with creatine supplementation natural sources and production wont be harmed. Ive read that somewhere, cycling off creatine is not needed.
 
nunes

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i think 1 week of var and 1 week of proviron is a waste. Too short for both. Either run the mass/phera longer or you could stack them both from the start.

Try the mass tabs, although ive never used it maybe you could give more feedback.

Creatine i would just run it oncycle and PCT, I dont really understand too much why people stop it oncycle. Even with creatine supplementation natural sources and production wont be harmed. Ive read that somewhere, cycling off creatine is not needed.
great to have you here piston :thumbsup:and thanks for your opinion, well the var and the proviron are used cause I`m following the montana protocol, if you follow the link on my first post the explanation is there.
the creatine, well the only reason I was keeping it for pct is because I want some kick off right after the cycle and I think that our endogenous creatine production rise when on cycle.
Since everybody wants the mass tabs , I chose the phera, lol, only kidding mass are the chosen ones
great discussion my friends, thanks to all
 
Trauma1

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great to have you guys supporting this cycle, talk about gurus...

bros I would really appreciate your "guru"opinion on my doubts :
-phera or masstabs?
-creatine while on or keep it for pct?
-and by the way , formestane with or without food?

By the way this is gonna be a mini log, I will only do weekly updates and with final blood work, I don't want to bother you guys:thumbsup:
Glad to be along for the log bud. :D

1) I'm going to have to give some love to phera here. I LOVE it and i think it would work well.

2) Definitely save the creatine for PCT. You won't need it until then to help maintain gains and strength.

3) I also agree with a transdermal based formestane if available.
 
Trauma1

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i think 1 week of var and 1 week of proviron is a waste. Too short for both. Either run the mass/phera longer or you could stack them both from the start.

Try the mass tabs, although ive never used it maybe you could give more feedback.

Creatine i would just run it oncycle and PCT, I dont really understand too much why people stop it oncycle. Even with creatine supplementation natural sources and production wont be harmed. Ive read that somewhere, cycling off creatine is not needed.
Taking creatine on cycle will give you the most painful pumps of your life. It does for me at least. You really should cycle off it during the "On" period to prime yourself for prime uptake and utilization during PCT. Not to mention, give the kidney's a break for a bit. :D
 
Ziquor

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Taking creatine on cycle will give you the most painful pumps of your life. It does for me at least. You really should cycle off it during the "On" period to prime yourself for prime uptake and utilization during PCT. Not to mention, give the kidney's a break for a bit. :D

x2 T1 - Since creatine is processed almost completely through the kidneys it can magnify back pumps badly. I think you'd personally get more mass gain from the Phera. Even though Mass Tabs has much good feedback, the average gains seems usually be under 10#.
 
UNCfan1

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x2 T1 - Since creatine is processed almost completely through the kidneys it can magnify back pumps badly. I think you'd personally get more mass gain from the Phera. Even though Mass Tabs has much good feedback, the average gains seems usually be under 10#.
When I have used creatine on my cycles I never had back pumps and some I know it actually helped, of course they were on Taruine too.

Nunes, I can't comment on either Phera or Mass Tabs cause I haven't taken either but I would run Mass Tabs cause from the feedback I have its a great product!! Great gains and low sides. Plus I have always wanted to try it out myself:lol:

Interesting cycle Nunes and good luck!:thumbsup:
 
Trauma1

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x2 T1 - Since creatine is processed almost completely through the kidneys it can magnify back pumps badly. I think you'd personally get more mass gain from the Phera. Even though Mass Tabs has much good feedback, the average gains seems usually be under 10#.
Yes sir! :thumbsup:

That's why i placed that addition in the Havoc write-up about hydration status and muscle pumps/cramping. Using creatine "On" cycle is setting yourself up for a very painful situation imo.

You're right on with the renal (Kidney) stress as well. While there are many studies that support creatine and its safety, it certainly can contribute to issues in some people. Especially those that aren't taking in sufficient fluid intake keep intravascular volume in a euvolemic state.

Creatine can work along a hypotonic pathway in ways causing an imbalance of osmotically active extracellular particles. This will greatly contribute to painful muscle pumps/cramps.
 
nunes

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thanks to all the opinions guys,very helpfull.
At this time I think I`ll skip the creatine/no products on cycle and I will go with mass tabs this time cause I see that a lot of people have interest in the results (gains and bloodwork), CEL phera will wait for my next cycle.

As I said before the cycle will only begin on the first of September but this prelude discussion was great, hope I can get my 10 lbs in this cycle cause I believe its a clean one, my only concern is my primo, as you all know its hard to find legit primo , I hope mine is , I will not post the brand of it cause I think is not allowed , the only thing I can say is that its from the Balkan countries(Europe), a lot of users say its legit but with UG gear we never know...
Any opinions?
 
UNCfan1

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Best of luck to you Nunes!:thumbsup: Hit me up with a link when you start this badboy.
 
nunes

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Subbed I am in:thumbsup:
great to have you on board bro, I cant wait to start this one but I have to follow the time on +pct=time off, I follow very strict rules in my cycles, do you have any link to blood work after a pct made with AI PCS?
I would also use your cycle support but I cant find it here in Europe:sad:, so I use a lot of other ancillaries as you can see in my first post
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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great to have you on board bro, I cant wait to start this one but I have to follow the time on +pct=time off, I follow very strict rules in my cycles, do you have any link to blood work after a pct made with AI PCS?
I would also use your cycle support but I cant find it here in Europe:sad:, so I use a lot of other ancillaries as you can see in my first post
Yes bro I have my own from my H-drol run a few months ago and I believe I have some fro Dmang another of our reps from a much more supressive stack.:thumbsup:
 

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nunes

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Yes bro I have my own from my H-drol run a few months ago and I believe I have some fro Dmang another of our reps from a much more supressive stack.:thumbsup:
thanks bro, did you know what were your values before the cycle?
 
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Nunes. Thanks for the Dragon Ball Z video brother. It was awesome. Here's one I like that I would like to share with you. I hope you enjoy it. :head: [nomedia]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1jjq-3Vd1w[/nomedia]
 
tnick7

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A week tomorrow it begins bro!!!:head:

Did the whole M-Stak thing make you change your mind about running it in PCT, or are you going to run it anyway?
 
nunes

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A week tomorrow it begins bro!!!:head:

Did the whole M-Stak thing make you change your mind about running it in PCT, or are you going to run it anyway?
I`ll run it anyway cause I bought the stuff before this scandal rise up, I was pretty pi***d with it though:frustrate.
I think that is a lack of respect for the costumer to mislabel products and as I said before I don't think that thermolife could make such serious accusations if the 0% turk wasn't true(legal issues).
Seems like the new mass fx has 0% turk also...
Man who are we gonna trust nowadays:think:, so many s**t:toilet: out there
 
tnick7

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I`ll run it anyway cause I bought the stuff before this scandal rise up, I was pretty pi***d with it though:frustrate.
I think that is a lack of respect for the costumer to mislabel products and as I said before I don't think that thermolife could make such serious accusations if the 0% turk wasn't true(legal issues).
Seems like the new mass fx has 0% turk also...
Man who are we gonna trust nowadays:think:, so many s**t:toilet: out there

Exactly. Universal is one company I didn't see it coming from, AX is more believable, but I was surprised
 
nunes

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Exactly. Universal is one company I didn't see it coming from, AX is more believable, but I was surprised
yep,so do I , I`m waiting for the excuse but if they had tested their products , they would have a lab test to show us NOW, but nope they have words , only words...
They lost a costumer cause I just can stand scammers.
Are you following the thread drama on bb.com?aggressive like hell...
I heard that ax didn't give a response to the accusations , do you know if this is true?
because if it is :FUfinger: to them, I was a good ax costumer and I thought they were innovative but as a costumer I want an explanation at least
 
tnick7

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yep,so do I , I`m waiting for the excuse but if they had tested their products , they would have a lab test to show us NOW, but nope they have words , only words...
They lost a costumer cause I just can stand scammers.
Are you following the thread drama on bb.com?aggressive like hell...
I heard that ax didn't give a response to the accusations , do you know if this is true?
because if it is :FUfinger: to them
Yeah, read it every now and again. (BTW I changed username to Androgen over at bb, tired of people pm'ing me saying, nick where can I get nolva, since I changed its stopped!!). AX's response was pathetic. Their supplier showed a CoA for Turk, tested against a book. It wasn't tested against a standard, like with Chromadex. After that was disproved they basically said, trust us, we are reliable, have faith in us. Since then they have changed the labels from saying 20% Turkesterone, to just Turkesterone. Apparently they are in the process of changing the formula. They are just as bad. Apparently Ron will test EVERY other product that claims to contain Turkesterone.
 
mattikus

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x2 T1 - Since creatine is processed almost completely through the kidneys it can magnify back pumps badly. I think you'd personally get more mass gain from the Phera. Even though Mass Tabs has much good feedback, the average gains seems usually be under 10#.
I gained 17 lbs on Mass Tabs on an all out bulk. I have a naturally high metabolism so I can often eat anything. I was taking a weight gainer that included creatine and back pumps were a slight issue. No more creatine on cycle for me.
 
nunes

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I gained 17 lbs on Mass Tabs on an all out bulk. I have a naturally high metabolism so I can often eat anything. I was taking a weight gainer that included creatine and back pumps were a slight issue. No more creatine on cycle for me.
17 lbs was fantastic, how many weeks have you run it?
what was good and bad with mass?
 

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