Marijuana and Bodybuilding
- 09-05-2007, 07:16 PM
Marijuana and Bodybuilding
ok, i'm sure we all know people who smoke pot... i have a specific friend in mind, who frequently lifts and does cardio, but he also smokes pot on occasion and yesterday we were discussing what effects that may have on bodybuilding.
does anyone have any information on the possible effects THC may have on building muscle? does it raise estrogen/suppress testosterone? or really have no effect?
- 09-05-2007, 07:28 PM
search... the majority if not all new studies on marijuana research show that there is no correlation between marijuana and testosterone levels. However I think it could really help out during a bulk... also look at Marinol, its the prescription version of pot in pill form pretty much
- 09-05-2007, 07:29 PM
09-05-2007, 07:47 PM
09-05-2007, 08:24 PM
STUDY LINKS USE OF MARIJUANA TO A FLUCTUATION IN SEX DRIVE
By JOEL GREENBERG, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: July 25, 1981
in excessive amounts yes however in very small amounts it raises them, a small hit of THC
Pharmacological researchers may have resolved the contradiction between scientific findings that marijuana decreases sexual drive and reports from users who maintain the drug works as an aphrodisiac.
In the journal Science three researchers from the University of Texas suggest that tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, marijuana's active ingredient, may affect male sexual activity in two phases. In animal tests, they found, it first raises the level of testosterone and other sex hormones but later may lower hormone levels to far below normal.
Previous laboratory studies failed to detect the initial rise in hormone levels because scientists usually do not begin measuring those levels until at least one hour after the drug is administered, said Susan Dalterio, assistant professor of pharmacology, obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas Health Center in San Antonio.
''One thing that bothered those of us who do animal work was that every time we gave THC to mice, they would show a decrease in sexual behavior,'' Dr. Dalterio said in a telephone interview. ''But then human beings who smoke marijuana would tell us, 'Hey, you're crazy! It increases our sex drive.' '' Hormone Levels Measured
In their current study, the researchers measured levels of blood testosterone and luteinizing hormone, or LH, which stimulates testosterone production, within the first hour after feeding liquid THC to mice.
They found that the testosterone level in all the mice jumped almost immediately to about six times its normal amount. Moreover, mice receiving low doses of the drug maintained the high testosterone levels for the entire hour; those receiving much higher doses showed drastic drops in testosterone after 20 minutes to levels considerably below those of mice in the control group.
In a person smoking marijuana, the THC enters the bloodstream very rapidly, Dr. Dalterio said. The drug's almost instant effect on the testes, as shown in the study, would seem to account for the dramatic reports of sexual arousal during and after smoking, she said.
The results also seem to explain previous reports of depleted testosterone levels among heavy marijuana users, according to Dr. Dalterio. In the study doses of THC that were 10 to 100 times higher than the low doses caused a simultaneous rise in luteinizing hormone, which is manufactured in the pituitary gland at the brain's base. Normal Controls Disrupted
In normal sexual stimulation, Dr. Dalterio explained, it takes about 20 minutes for LH to be produced, then travel from the pituitary to the testes, where it helps produce testosterone; in about the same amount of time the testosterone then enters the bloodstream and makes the trip back to the pituitary. This feedback system automatically shuts down when the brain senses an adequate level of sex hormone has been reached.
Heavy doses of THC disrupt the normal flow in this hormonal loop by triggering LH and testosterone production at the same time, she said. This appears to cause a shutdown that sends hormonal levels plummeting 20 minutes after the drug is administered. No such testosterone drop was seen among mice that received low doses.
STUDY LINKS USE OF MARIJUANA TO A FLUCTUATION IN SEX DRIVE - New York Times
09-05-2007, 08:29 PM
just like anything, excessive amounts is harmful
smoking a little "reefer" from time to time is ok health wise but legally depending on where you live is another story
i'll leave u with arnold's take on it
09-05-2007, 10:44 PM
In my opinion, I personally would smoke a joint over a 12 pack any day if I had to choose the lesser of the two evils, legality may be an issue however
09-05-2007, 11:06 PM
maybe he is the exception...but my old training partner is a pretty serious with mari-j and he is an animal...keeps his diet clean and uses moderate doses of gear but he's only 22 and 6'1 230 something and prob 9-10% bf
and when i was heavy on the pot and bulking i had no problems
09-06-2007, 12:35 AM
guys i've smoked mary jane for ever and it never hurt my bodybuilding career
09-07-2007, 05:23 AM
just rolled and smoked a fat one tonight guys after a great leg workout at my local gym
ate plenty of good food and i'm now considering a visit to my local cat house for some good old fashioned loving, gets tough being by yourself sometimes
least the girls where i go think i've still got it and i'm old enough to be their grandfather, lol
they call me sexy legs and really show me a good time, i'm even considering using that aspire i've been reading so much about to help me a little more to get my money's worth
i love my herbs and sex
09-07-2007, 06:52 AM
mind muscle connection
killing brain cells
paranoia / anxiety / stress
You be the judge
09-07-2007, 08:50 AM
I do not believe that THC is neurotoxic, there is even a substantial amount of evidence coming out that it is neuroprotective...
Last edited by pist; 09-07-2007 at 08:52 AM. Reason: increased specificity
09-07-2007, 03:05 PM
09-07-2007, 03:07 PM
I have a serious consideration about any type of smoking and the effects it has on your lungs. Basically any type of smoking over time hinders the exchange of oxygen in the capilaries in the lung fields....to some degree. I firmly believe that oxygen in the muscles would be directly effected by this, and oxygen is what the muscles crave. Without proper oxygenation the muscle will not have the vital needs to grow.
09-07-2007, 05:23 PM
09-08-2007, 11:28 AM
09-08-2007, 11:55 AM
09-08-2007, 11:59 AM
i havent seen a study saying THC kills brain cells...and im willing to bet any one that does wasnt giving the rats a joint, but a 100CC injection of JUST THC.
09-08-2007, 11:36 PM
09-09-2007, 11:00 AM
i dont know about its effects on bodybuilding as that is really dependant on the individual, i think alot of people react differently to bud. I myself hardly feel relaxed more like the opposite. I also somewhat believe that when i was 14 or around that age my excessive smoking may have gave me a small case of gyno. I have seen studies on that showing male teens that used throughout adolescense had more cases of gyno. And libido...yeah i wouldnt get horny while i was stoned, now maybe afterwards ok but this shows me it probably decreases testosterone, at least in me.
09-09-2007, 12:09 PM
09-14-2007, 03:12 PM
09-14-2007, 03:15 PM
09-14-2007, 03:25 PM
Government experts now admit that pot doesn't kill brain cells.(8) This myth came from a handful of animal experiments in which structural changes (not actual cell death, as is often alleged) were observed in brain cells of animals exposed to high doses of pot. Many critics still cite the notorious monkey studies of Dr. Robert G. Heath, which purported to find brain damage in three monkeys that had been heavily dosed with cannabis.(9) This work was never replicated and has since been discredited by a pair of better controlled, much larger monkey studies, one by Dr. William Slikker of the National Center for Toxicological Research(10) and the other by Charles Rebert and Gordon Pryor of SRI International.(11) Neither found any evidence of physical alteration in the brains of monkeys exposed to daily doses of pot for up to a year. Human studies of heavy users in Jamaica and Costa Rica found no evidence of abnormalities in brain physiology.(12) Even though there is no evidence that pot causes permanent brain damage, users should be aware that persistent deficits in short-term memory have been noted in chronic, heavy marijuana smokers after 6 to 12 weeks of abstinence.(13) It is worth noting that other drugs, including alcohol, are known to cause brain damage.
09-14-2007, 03:26 PM
Myth: Marijuana causes sterility and lowers testosterone
Government experts also concede that pot has no permanent effect on the male or female reproductive systems.(14) A few studies have suggested that heavy marijuana use may have a reversible, suppressive effect on male testicular function.(15) A recent study by Dr. Robert Block has refuted earlier research suggesting that pot lowers testosterone or other sex hormones in men or women.(16) In contrast, heavy alcohol drinking is known to lower testosterone levels and cause impotence. A couple of lab studies indicated that very heavy marijuana smoking might lower sperm counts. However, surveys of chronic smokers have turned up no indication of infertility or other abnormalities.
Less is known about the effects of cannabis on human females. Some animal studies suggest that pot might temporarily lower fertility or increase the risk of fetal loss, but this evidence is of dubious relevance to humans.(1) One human study suggested that pot may mildly disrupt ovulation. It is possible that adolescents are peculiarly vulnerable to hormonal disruptions from pot. However, not a single case of impaired fertility has ever been observed in humans of either sex.
09-14-2007, 03:27 PM
Myth: One joint equals one pack of (or 16, or maybe just 4) cigarettes
Some critics exaggerate the dangers of marijuana smoking by fallaciously citing a study by Dr. Tashkin which found that daily pot smokers experienced a "mild but significant" increase in airflow resistance in the large airways greater than that seen in persons smoking 16 cigarettes per day.(7) What they ignore is that the same study examined other, more important aspects of lung health, in which marijuana smokers did much better than tobacco smokers. Dr. Tashkin himself disavows the notion that one joint equals 16 cigarettes. A more widely accepted estimate is that marijuana smokers consume four times as much carcinogenic tar as cigarettes smokers per weight smoked. (8) This does not necessarily mean that one joint equals four cigarettes, since joints usually weigh less. In fact, the average joint has been estimated to contain 0.4 grams of pot, a bit less than one-half the weight of a cigarette, making one joint equal to two cigarettes (actually, joint sizes range from cigar-sized spliffs smoked by Rastas, to very fine sinsemilla joints weighing as little as 0.2 grams). It should be noted that there is no exact equivalency between tobacco and marijuana smoking, because they affect different parts of the respiratory tract differently: whereas tobacco tends to penetrate to the smaller, peripheral passageways of the lungs, pot tends to concentrate on the larger, central passageways.(9) One consequence of this is that pot, unlike tobacco, does not appear to cause emphysema.
09-14-2007, 03:29 PM
Myth: Marijuana causes chromosome and cell damage
According to the NAS,(14) "Studies suggesting that marijuana probably does not break chromosomes are fairly conclusive." Cannabinoids in themselves are neither mutagenic nor carcinogenic, though the tars produced by marijuana combustion are. Some laboratory studies have suggested that high dosages of THC might interfere with cell replication and produce abnormal numbers of chromosomes; however, there is no evidence of such damage in realistic situations.
09-14-2007, 03:29 PM
Myth: Marijuana damages the immune system
A variety of studies indicate that THC and other cannabinoids may exercise mild, reversible immuno-suppressive effects by inhibiting the activity of immune system cells know as lymphocytes (T- and B-cells) and macrophages. It is dubious whether these effects are of import to human health, since they are based mainly on theoretical laboratory and animal studies. According to a review by Dr. Leo Hollister(8) "The evidence [on immune suppression] has been contradictory and is more supportive of some degree of immunosuppression only when one considers in vitro studies. These have been seriously flawed by the very high concentrations of drug used to produce immunosuppression. The closer that experimental studies have been to actual clinical situations, the less compelling has been the evidence."
The immune suppression issue was first raised in research by the notorious cannabophobe Dr. Gabriel Nahas, but a flurry of research by the Reagan administration failed to find anything alarming. The recent discovery of a cannabinoid receptor inside rat spleens, where immune cells reside, raises the likelihood that cannabinoids do exert some sort of influence on the immune system.(9) It has even been suggested that these effects might be beneficial for patients with auto-immune diseases such as multiple sclerosis. Nevertheless, not a single case of marijuana-induced immune deficiency has ever been clinically or epidemiologically detected in humans.
One exception is the lungs, where chronic pots smokers have been shown to suffer damage to the immune cells known as alveolar macrophages and other defense mechanisms.(10) It is unclear how much of this damage is due to THC, as opposed to all of the other toxins that occur in smoke, many of which can be filtered out by waterpipes and other devices(11).
There is no reason to think marijuana is dangerous to AIDS patients. On the contrary, many AIDS patients report that marijuana helps avert the deadly "wasting syndrome" by stimulating appetite and reducing nausea. Cannabinoids do not actually damage the T-cells, which are depleted in HIV patients: one study even found that marijuana exposure increased T-cell counts in subjects (not AIDS patients) whose T-cell counts had been low.(12) Epidemiological studies have found no relation between use of marijuana or other drugs and development of AIDS.(13)
09-16-2007, 06:38 PM
reps to both hurdlemaker and hank vangut, it looks like you take your health seriously, great posts and research hank
09-16-2007, 06:47 PM
Where's the link to those studies you've cited?
09-16-2007, 06:50 PM
09-17-2007, 12:23 AM
There's nothing wrong with it, as long as it doesn't hurt your motivation.
09-17-2007, 03:11 AM
ubi you clown..! im starting to look forward to your creative changes to your avys....
how about gandalf?
09-17-2007, 01:32 PM
lol those studies are probly straight off the "legalize marijuana" website
I don't care what anybody says... chronic use of the herb f*cks you up
now if you take a few rips every once in a while to chill and relax, your not going to have any probs... but using that garbage everyday is going to hinder just about any goals you have
I smoked for like 3 years straight in highschool just about everyday and i when i finally quit it was like night and day in regards to the way i felt, mental clarity, motivation... everything
I doubt that there are to many chronic everyday users here on a bodybuilding forum, but to all the pple that use everyday and come up with all this garbage about how it doesn't effect health/mental status ect... it is because you have an addiction! and with every addiction comes the need to justify that addiction!
lol sh*t that was me 4-5 years ago, weed was the best thing in the world and i was gonna smoke it till i was 100 years old... but then i grew up
like i said theres no prob. blazin every once in a while to relax and enjoy some good food, but don't kid yourselves and think doin it everyday doesn't have any negative effects!
09-17-2007, 01:47 PM
there is no question that MJ alters mental state. no one is arguing that. and this can be argued as a negative or positive side effect depending on the user. obviously, movinweight views this as negative.
however there are no conclusive studies showing that long term use of MJ is significantly detrimental to health (with exception to the inhalation of tar content).
earlier studies performed showing negative health effects of MJ have since been disproved. those old studies were conducted back when govt propaganda was attempting to gain public support in criminalization of drug use in the U.S.
i'm open to a change of opinion, you just need to direct me to some valid studies instead of telling me about your personal experiences.
09-17-2007, 02:06 PM
I'll have to locate the study when i have more time or someone here can search for it, but i remember reading a persons risk of hear-attack is increased by 5-fold within the first hour of smoking
And it also causes an dose dependent increase in heart-rate... can increase anxiety and blood pressure... now whether these will cause long term problems? maybe not but i was defintely more concerned with the cognitive/mental effects of the drug
i mean chronic use makes you a moron... slow reacting, loss of short term memory ect...
09-17-2007, 02:10 PM
I take lifting very seriously, I also smoke daily, just a few hits a couple a times a day, if you get baked, I can't see how that is benificial, I like to just alter my mood a little and eat several huge meals throughout the day
09-17-2007, 02:29 PM
Also no conclusive data showing it to be "addictive". Habit forming..yes, but not addictive in the classic sense. That's just been a recent addition to the claims against pot so that drug treatment centers can drum up more business...ie get busted for pot, then you have to go to rehab.
Smoking chronically as a teen is much different than doing so as an adult. Teens are undergoing the most major neurological changes that will dictate how their brains will function in later life. IMO, ANY mood altering or nuerotropic substance use at this stage is a risk and should be avoided.
As for adult use..recent studies point to there being no permanent harm to any level of brain function. Short term memory loss can occur, but only under the direct influence of pot and the memory loss disappears upon cessation.
I smoked for about 9 years straight with hardly a break until recently. I bodybuilt up to my desired physique, worked a job in the sciences, sired a healthy and beautiful baby, maintained a good marriage, started a remodeling business, and am about to start a new business...all during daily MJ use and all without issues.
I quit because I wanted a break and to avoid building up a huge tolerance.
I also know or am affiliated with several millionaires who do the same...hard working, intelligent people who simply enjoy the bud.
Are there those who can't handle it? Sure. A certain percentage of people out there will use just about anything to run away from or alter their perspective realities. These are the ones who will preach how awful it or any other drug is after they get themselves together. They then "know" how bad the pot was and what it can do when in reality, they were self medicating for a reason and that reason has probably not been addressed or it went away on it's own. Hard drugs are obviously different and do indeed alter neurochemical pathways over the long term causing a person to become someone else.
Too much of anything is bad, but what is seldom talked about is what the reasons are for using too much. It's easier to blame substance X and now you can't even play poker without being bombarded with "You might have a gambling problem if..." media of some type.
There's that little thing called "personal responsibility"..ya either got it or you don't. If you don't, you'll find something to destroy yourself with and blame it on.
The Devil made me post all of that
A book I highly recommend "Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts" examines all of the claims against pot and what the scientific based realities really are.
09-17-2007, 02:34 PM
The heart study was done in a group of sedantary, over-50 adults and does not represent a definitive study. For a person who is in shape and takes care of themselves, the 60 minute boost in BP is probably not significant...ie excercise itself elevates BP when you are actively lifting.
Your "moron" comment would be taken more seriously if you used proper punctuation.
09-17-2007, 03:05 PM
Myth: Pot causes high blood pressure
According to the NAS, the effects of marijuana on blood pressure are complex, depending on dose, administration, and posture.(7) Marijuana often produces a temporary, moderate increase in blood pressure immediately after ingestion; however, heavy chronic doses may slightly depress blood pressure instead. One common reaction is to cause decreased blood pressure while standing and increased blood pressure while lying down, causing people to faint if they stand up too quickly. There is no evidence that pot use causes persisting hypertension or heart disease; some users even claim that it helps them control hypertension by reducing stress.
One thing THC does do is to increase pulse rates for about an hour. This is not generally harmful, since exercise does the same thing, but it may cause problems to people with pre-existing heart disease. Chronic users may develop a tolerance to this and other cardiovascular reactions.
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