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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    The explain why Bobo had me on 300 grams a day at 170 lbs???
    That's not a good argument man.

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    225g of protein is perfect, you need to add more carbs and some healthy fats.
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    He's hella smarter than the rest of us Moyer - good enough for me.
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    You and khan8 are different people with different goals.
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    Alright.

    I still think he needs 250+ grams of protein.
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    UMM i didnt' see this asked but before worrying about what to add and what to take out shouldn't we know what his maintenance is I mean he is at 3200 calories for some days my maintenance is above 3200 calories depending on cardio, activities if I spar or not etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    The explain why Bobo had me on 300 grams a day at 170 lbs???
    You are bulking, right?

    Bobo has said before that the only reason he raises protein higher than like .8g/lb is for the thermic effect. When I read that, I assumed he meant for cutting. I really don't know why you would want a thermic effect when you're trying to gain weight. I would think you could just eat a little less or do a little more cardio to have the same effect (I might be missing something though).

    Of course, Bobo's bulking programs are usually said to be VERY lean, so maybe that's why.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup
    UMM i didnt' see this asked but before worrying about what to add and what to take out shouldn't we know what his maintenance is I mean he is at 3200 calories for some days my maintenance is above 3200 calories depending on cardio, activities if I spar or not etc.
    I assume you're talking about an equation to figure his BMR, etc? IMO, those aren't that accurate, they're just a good starting point. He has just figured out that his maintenance is around 3200 (using his current macros), because his weight stayed the same for two weeks.

    I actually gain pretty well on around 3400 cals and I'm 190lbs. I don't spar though, or do too much cardio, etc.
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    Yeah, I was on a lean bulking program. No supplements - period.
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    would it be ok to double my carbs sources in the first few meals (1.5 oats, double rice, etc)
    when i do this, 200 cals are added..
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    but only 45 carbs are gonna be added and my pro intake will stay the same, will this be ojk until i figure out how to take out the protein and replace it with carebes without losing cals?
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    Sounds good to me.

    "Keep it simple, stupid" - KISS.
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    oh ok thank you ill do that then.

    BTW is that you in your avatar? because maybe since your a ladie that might have something to do with your bulking macros.
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    Yes - that is me in my avatar....

    Wanna feel my boobs?
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    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    The explain why Bobo had me on 300 grams a day at 170 lbs???
    lol.. do i even need to bother making the "jump off a bridge" analogy? no offense to any member of this forum or anything, but 300 grams of protein for a 150 or 170 lb person ---bulking, cutting or otherwise---is WAY too much protein. flame me if you'd like, but that is the reality of proper nutrition. if you want to bulk, up your protein by a small margin, and add lots of complex carbs and healthy calories. adding more protein isn't going to help you gain weight... it's going to help you be constipated.. so if your goal is to gain weight by preventing digested food from leaving your body, this is the perfect program for you.. lol. if you'd really like to help someone bulk, you can fedex me the extra 150 grams of protein you're wasting per day. just let me know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyer
    You are bulking, right?

    Bobo has said before that the only reason he raises protein higher than like .8g/lb is for the thermic effect. When I read that, I assumed he meant for cutting. I really don't know why you would want a thermic effect when you're trying to gain weight. I would think you could just eat a little less or do a little more cardio to have the same effect (I might be missing something though).

    Of course, Bobo's bulking programs are usually said to be VERY lean, so maybe that's why.
    its simply a waste of money either way. there are far batter ways to cut than that. bike, jog, jump-rope, beat the crap out of a punching bag.. get off your lazy ass and stop eating so much.. friggin bodybuilders... lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    its simply a waste of money either way. there are far batter ways to cut than that. bike, jog, jump-rope, beat the crap out of a punching bag.. get off your lazy ass and stop eating so much.. friggin bodybuilders... lol
    Yeah, lets just drop calories while we lift 5x/week and perform cardio 4x/week as well.


    When you start training bodybuilders and have to account for their goals, let me know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandy
    lol.. do i even need to bother making the "jump off a bridge" analogy? no offense to any member of this forum or anything, but 300 grams of protein for a 150 or 170 lb person ---bulking, cutting or otherwise---is WAY too much protein. flame me if you'd like, but that is the reality of proper nutrition. if you want to bulk, up your protein by a small margin, and add lots of complex carbs and healthy calories. adding more protein isn't going to help you gain weight... it's going to help you be constipated.. so if your goal is to gain weight by preventing digested food from leaving your body, this is the perfect program for you.. lol. if you'd really like to help someone bulk, you can fedex me the extra 150 grams of protein you're wasting per day. just let me know.
    1. There is no "proper nutrition". The science in itself is mainly a theoretical science in its infancy.

    2. Excess protein would cause the opposite of constipation if the the sources are adequate.

    3. Adding protein will help you gain weight simply because its calories. Gluconeogenesis and protein turnover rate is calculated mainly by energy requirements and most likely he will utilize his macro's properly as long as its balanced enough. Intake should be based on goal and bodytype, not outdated FDA guidelines.



    4. If the food sources are from whole foods and the digestion and absorption is regulated naturally (as whole foods will do) then higher protein intake is fine. If the sources are liquified coming form fast absorbing protein sources then then it most likely won't be absorbed and everyone can tell due to the excess sulfur content in amino acids. The same can be said with fast absorbing carbohydrates as well so its not the macro that is the problems but the absorption rate is the food item. Stating high protein intake gets wasted simply because its high is ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khan8
    would it be ok to double my carbs sources in the first few meals (1.5 oats, double rice, etc)
    when i do this, 200 cals are added..

    If you are worried about gaining excess fat, just reduce your fat intake a bit and increase protein (although 330g is quite high enough). If you aren't worried about fat gain and want the highest possible "weight" gain and performance "gain" drop protein, increase fat intake. You can basically adjust your protein and fat intake for your specific goals.

    Most people that come to me mainly want the most LBM gains but least fat gain so that is why protein intake is higher. Cutting programs utilize higher protein intake because 99.9% want to keep what they have and drop the fat. You are already training 5x/week and cardio 4x/week so adding more cardio like some people suggest is foolish. Increase the thermic effect of your diet while utilizing cardio/weight training to the max while NOT becoming catabolic is the smart plan.

    But what do I know, I'll just tell my next competitor to punch the bag a bit more and he'll be fine.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Moyer
    I assume you're talking about an equation to figure his BMR, etc? IMO, those aren't that accurate, they're just a good starting point. He has just figured out that his maintenance is around 3200 (using his current macros), because his weight stayed the same for two weeks.

    I actually gain pretty well on around 3400 cals and I'm 190lbs. I don't spar though, or do too much cardio, etc.
    Well when I do my maintenance and this could be wrong what I do is take by BMR add in all the calories I burned during the day then add on 500-750 calories total to my daily intake. So my caloric intake changes daily depending on how much I work out during the day Because if I am doing an MMA session I might burn 800-1000 calories more that day so to stay on the same amount each day wouldn't be as productive tolds bulking I thought. does this sound right?
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    Yeah - if Bobo told me to jump off a bridge - I'd do it.

    :bb3:

    Thanks for the edjumacation B!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    Yeah - if Bobo told me to jump off a bridge - I'd do it.

    Thanks for the edjumacation B!
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    i dont do cardio. jsut thought i'd clear that up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup
    Well when I do my maintenance and this could be wrong what I do is take by BMR add in all the calories I burned during the day then add on 500-750 calories total to my daily intake. So my caloric intake changes daily depending on how much I work out during the day Because if I am doing an MMA session I might burn 800-1000 calories more that day so to stay on the same amount each day wouldn't be as productive tolds bulking I thought. does this sound right?
    Yes. Changing your calories based on how many you think you'll burn that day is a good idea IMO. Especially if you're doing things like MMA on only certain days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo

    But what do I know, I'll just tell my next competitor to punch the bag a bit more and he'll be fine.


    jmh would have probably done it too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    If you are worried about gaining excess fat, just reduce your fat intake a bit and increase protein
    Basically, excess carbs will probably be stored as fat. There's a good chance though that excess protein will either be converted to glucose (if needed) or be excreted from the body. Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    If you aren't worried about fat gain and want the highest possible "weight" gain and performance "gain" drop protein, increase fat intake. You can basically adjust your protein and fat intake for your specific goals.
    Is the performance gain from the body having another source of fuel during exercise? (the new source being more fat)?

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    No, excess fat will be stored first above everything else because the steps to chemically convert dietary fat into stored triglycerides is less than anything else. That and the fact its 9 calories/gram. Carbs into fat is overstated by a mile. If your diet is balanced enough its not a problem.

    The body uses all sources at all times. I don't understand why people think it picks and chooses one. Only the ratios and amounts used based on energy requirements changes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    No, excess fat will be stored first above everything else because the steps to chemically convert dietary fat into stored triglycerides is less than anything else. That and the fact its 9 calories/gram. Carbs into fat is overstated by a mile. If your diet is balanced enough its not a problem.

    The body uses all sources at all times. I don't understand why people think it picks and chooses one. Only the ratios and amounts used based on energy requirements changes.
    I realize excess dietary fat will be stored first. I thought the body used all sources at all times, but you said the body would get a performance increase from increased fat intake, and I don't understand why that would happen(that's what confused me). My post above was just a guess, hence the question mark.

    What I'm really trying to figure out is why you think 2g pro/lb of BW is better than 1.5g/lb when you're bulking. If carbs turning to fat is overstated, then why not replace that extra protein with good carbs? I don't see why an increased thermic effect would be a good thing when you're bulking.

    I apologize if I'm being a pain in the ***. I just want to make sure I understand this. It seems a lot more important than most of the topics that are discussed here.

    I feel like the dummy at the front of the class asking simple questions, but at the same time I don't feel like many people here really understand this either.
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    Because its a more efficient energy source than protein.

    I didn't say it was better, I said it was different for different goals. Increased thermic effect decreases the chance of excess calries being storied as fat. Some people want leaner gains and increases protein intake while keeping carbs and fats moderate will do this but you will take a hit in performamce because its a less efficient source of energy.

    Try it. Decrease you protein intake a bit and increase your carbs and fat a bit and you will hit PR's pretty easily.
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    ok is this better for non workout days (ill post workout days later):
    and here is my diet for non workout days:
    1.5 oats ½ cup egg whites, ½ whey, banana
    cals 457 pro 31 carbs 68

    chicken with 1 cup brown rice and almonds:
    cals 630 pro 48 carbs 72

    ½ scoop whey/1.5 oats in water:
    cals 285 pro 12 carbs 40
    chicken with 1 cup (canned) black beans:
    cals 370 pro 48 carbs 40

    1/2 whey/1.5 oats in water with almonds:
    cals 285 pro 12 carbs 40

    2 OZ whole wheat angel hair with 1 can tuna:
    cals 360 pro 39 carbs 42

    chicken with 1 cup rice:
    cals 470 pro 42 carbs 66

    before bed whey/cottage cheese in water and almonds:
    cals 370 pro 42 carbs 15

    TOTAL cals 3227
    pro 274
    carbs: 383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Increased thermic effect decreases the chance of excess calories being storied as fat.
    The thermic effect prevents excess cals from being stored as fat simply because it burns some of those calories, right? Or is there another reason for this effect?

    Decrease you protein intake a bit and increase your carbs and fat a bit and you will hit PR's pretty easily.
    Cool stuff. I've never heard that before. I guess that's one reason why powerlifters tend to be less lean than bodybuilders.
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    I think yes to your 1st question Moyer.
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    That's the way I was leaning, but if that's the case, you could just lower your overall calories a bit to compensate. It seems like there must be somewhat of a nutrient partitioning effect, otherwise it would be pointless. I was hoping Bobo would reply, but he hasn't posted on the main boards for a few days.
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    i have a question
    i just started skateboarding again and i skateboard ALOT every day and it is drianing and tiring like looong cardio basically, and i do it alot with friends so i dont have time to bring a set meal but is it ok to not count my macros but just to eat alot (what i think is enough) pasta, fruit, oats, chicken, etc each day? i would eat like 4-5 times a day

    if i bring set meals and eat them i dont think its worth it i dont even gain damn weight anyways, so is this ok to do ?
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    You're likely to under eat if you start doing it that way but if it's what you want to do then go ahead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khan8
    i have a question
    i just started skateboarding again and i skateboard ALOT every day and it is drianing and tiring like looong cardio basically, and i do it alot with friends so i dont have time to bring a set meal but is it ok to not count my macros but just to eat alot (what i think is enough) pasta, fruit, oats, chicken, etc each day? i would eat like 4-5 times a day

    if i bring set meals and eat them i dont think its worth it i dont even gain damn weight anyways, so is this ok to do ?
    Bad attitude to have man. You WILL gain weight if you eat enough. That's all there is to it. Couldn't you just bring a shake with you in a cooler, in a backpack? Some homemade protein bars? A sandwich, light string cheese, walnuts in a baggie, banana, apple, prunes, etc?

    Like Ziricote said though, it's up to you.
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    Its almsot a gurantee that you wont be eating enough to put on muscle. Added in to the intense cardio you are describing in skateboarding you will need so much more than in my opinion you could imagine (thats just based on this approach)

    I cant see you eating enough when you need to be eating that extra chicken breast even when you feel like if you take another bite you may pass out.

    Planning is well worth the results
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023
    Its almsot a gurantee that you wont be eating enough to put on muscle. Added in to the intense cardio you are describing in skateboarding you will need so much more than in my opinion you could imagine (thats just based on this approach)

    I cant see you eating enough when you need to be eating that extra chicken breast even when you feel like if you take another bite you may pass out.

    Planning is well worth the results
    I agree completely.
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    ok, then the days i go over to friends houses to skate (every day basically)
    i will take some snacks that add up to the macros of a meal
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