Any benefit to going keto on a bulk? And how about IF?

TrainPsycho

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Greetings,

I personally like keto because carbs make me tired and hungry, and I like IF because it makes me mentally sharper and less hungry in the mornings. My training intensity and endurance were not compromised on keto, and my running endurance was improved.

Now that I want to go on a clean bulk,
I'm wondering if there are any positive/negative effects on body composition doing it with IF and/or keto.

Thanks!
 
Grayson

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Greetings,

I personally like keto because carbs make me tired and hungry, and I like IF because it makes me mentally sharper and less hungry in the mornings. My training intensity and endurance were not compromised on keto, and my running endurance was improved.

Now that I want to go on a clean bulk,
I'm wondering if there are any positive/negative effects on body composition doing it with IF and/or keto.

Thanks!
I'm going to sound harsh and rude: you need carbs to grow. It's simple bio. You can try a tkd, and it might work, but don't expect much.

A hyper caloric diet of minimal fat, moderate protein and high carbs will be optimal for muscle growth.
 

TrainPsycho

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Minimal fat?

I always feel miserable when I do this.
 
Abe Lincoln

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If you can bulk on IF, all the power to you.. I can't eat that many calories in a short period of time.
 
Grayson

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If you can bulk on IF, all the power to you.. I can't eat that many calories in a short period of time.
Same here. Only on ostarine can I pack it in, but normally I just get bloated and want to puke.

Fat cannot synthesize muscle. The hormonal environment caused by keto can, but that's very individualistic. You need to have full glycogen stores to be in an anabolic state, thus you must eat CHO. If your body notices low glycogen stores, it will remain catabolic, and any fat taken in will be stored as fat or burned as ketones.

Again, you'll just be spinning your wheels.
 

TrainPsycho

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Jamie Lewis seems to be doing fine.
Is this because his massive protein intake results in a lot of gluconeogenesis?
 
Grayson

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Jamie Lewis seems to be doing fine.
Is this because his massive protein intake results in a lot of gluconeogenesis?
Gluconeogenesis isn't very energy efficient.
I haven't read up on him or his diet so I cannot comment.
 
jaces

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I. Thnk its posible , but the question is nt if its posible bt if its the best option?? I thnk carb cycling is a beter choice
 
Abe Lincoln

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Last night I ate most my cals in one meal and it felt like death lol
 
Abe Lincoln

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My appetite is ****ing massive. Norcodrene on a bulk.
Sounds horrible when you are cutting tho lol. I do have an appetite and can easily eat 2lbs of homemade Mac, but than it hits you 20minutes later, which at that time you hate yourself because you feel so bad lol.
 
jaces

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Sounds horrible when you are cutting tho lol. I do have an appetite and can easily eat 2lbs of homemade Mac, but than it hits you 20minutes later, which at that time you hate yourself because you feel so bad lol.
Hahaha feling lazy and useless
 

TrainPsycho

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Soms to conclude:

IF bulk: good.
Keto bulk: not. good enough

Rite?
 
Grayson

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Id say hell yeah to that. Fasting occasionally while bulking, especially for 24hrs has many benefits.
Fasting increases AMPK = not good while trying to lean gain.

On the flip side, fasting for 12-16 hours re-sensitizes the body to amino acids.

Traditional hypercaloric environment with plenty of carbs and minimal fat is the way to go.

If you don't want to get fat while bulking, incorporate hiit.
 
Abe Lincoln

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Fasting increases AMPK = not good while trying to lean gain. On the flip side, fasting for 12-16 hours re-sensitizes the body to amino acids. Traditional hypercaloric environment with plenty of carbs and minimal fat is the way to go. If you don't want to get fat while bulking, incorporate hiit.
I swore I read this book that included fasting and gains. It was by lyle mcdonald, I forget which book it was, but it has been a while. There is benefits and disadvantages of both eating and not eating, cutting and bulking, etc
 
iddc

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I've done IF on a lean bulk before. Was pretty successful with minimal fat gain.

Been on IF (8/16) for over a year now.

I don't cut out carbs tho, I just place em around my workouts.
 
Grayson

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I swore I read this book that included fasting and gains. It was by lyle mcdonald, I forget which book it was, but it has been a while. There is benefits and disadvantages of both eating and not eating, cutting and bulking, etc
I've read through most of his material/books. I don't think he does. Maybe Dan Duchane?
 

Swolbraham

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Ever since I quit being a carbophobe I've made the best progress in the gym. Your body's preferred fuel source is glucose sooooo ya.

Also IF for bulking stinks IMO. Again IMO. Id rather have food in me prior to fuel my sessions but to each their own. IF for cutting was even eh, just not for me
 

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And my metabolism has never been better. Since dieting and reversing, 140 lbs, 9% BF ( up 4 lbs in 11 weeks) and at 2,700 kcals, 350C and loving life
 

Swolbraham

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SFLP 2.0 worked so well for stubborn bf. I <3 Lyle for that
 
Grayson

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SFLP 2.0 worked so well for stubborn bf. I <3 Lyle for that
Lyle is the man! And the ud2 concept is brilliant. I basically run a 14 day version of ud2, but in reverse. So ten days of anabolism and four days of catabolism. I'm gaining at the leanest I've ever been.
 

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I'm also a stim addict. Yohimbine works better on an empty stomach, correct?
 
Distilled Water

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You can do it keto. I've done it, it's not easy, but it's possible.

I'd advise doing. TKD style though bc, if not, training becomes difficult. I basically just did this for 4 weeks to regain insulin sensitivity and was still adding lean mass.

I did keto years ago with DC training and say excellent gains. I can't remember the amount of carbs but they were all intra. Started sipping on my drink about 30min pre and had massive refeeds on Saturday
 

Swolbraham

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Any other way to keep my appetite down on a bulk?
Why would you wanna do that?

If you're worried about fat gain just keep your surplus moderate and train hard and you'll be fine my dude. You gotta accept a little bit of fat gain though
 
Grayson

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Why would you wanna do that?

If you're worried about fat gain just keep your surplus moderate and train hard and you'll be fine my dude. You gotta accept a little bit of fat gain though
Agreed.

The term anabolism pertains to all cells in the body, including fat and muscle. You won't get fat fat if you bulk correctly, and you can turn it into a recomp/lean gain, but you have to make due with the fact that you might gain some blubber.

If you see yourself gaining fat, cut the carbs for a few days, train heavy, do some hiit, then go back to bulking. This will reverse any "anabolic resistance" you might encounter.
 
jaces

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Why would you wanna do that?

If you're worried about fat gain just keep your surplus moderate and train hard and you'll be fine my dude. You gotta accept a little bit of fat gain though
Hit the nail on the head , dnt complicate thngs
 

TrainPsycho

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I've been a little fat kid before.

The hunger irritates the hell out of me.
I could eat 1500 kcal over maintenance and still be hungry. I'm serious.
 
Grayson

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I've been a little fat kid before.

The hunger irritates the hell out of me.
I could eat 1500 kcal over maintenance and still be hungry. I'm serious.
I used to be a chubby kid as well.

During my first bulk week (which was a few weeks ago), I went 5300kcal over my weekly limit. Shtuff happens. Just up the cardio and intensify the training.
 

Swolbraham

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i used to be really fat too. i was 187 at 5'5" and dropped all the way down to 127 with diet and exercise and then surgery also made me lose whatever muscle i had but, just keep yourself busy and try not to think about. try eating more satiating foods as well, lots of veggies, fruits, oats, etc. high volume foods will be your best friends. liquid calories and an IIFYM style diet may not be.

lots of water keeps me fuller longer too i find
 

TrainPsycho

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Gonna bump this with another question:

If dietary fat intake = 1g/kg,
(For hormone levels)

And protein intake is sufficient,
(1g/lb just to be safe)

Would it be more beneficial to fill the rest with extra protein or carbs?

I read a few articles that said protein is much harder to convert to bodyfat, and that gluconeogenesis is pretty much shut off when muscle glycogen is full.
 
jaces

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Gonna bump this with another question:

If dietary fat intake = 1g/kg,
(For hormone levels)

And protein intake is sufficient,
(1g/lb just to be safe)

Would it be more beneficial to fill the rest with extra protein or carbs?

I read a few articles that said protein is much harder to convert to bodyfat, and that gluconeogenesis is pretty much shut off when muscle glycogen is full.
Lot of fat + lot of sugar = health problems and fat gain
 

Swolbraham

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Just keep surprlus moderate and you wont gain a lot of fat if you train hard. Carbs are protein sparing and can drastically help most with performance.. But you can fill it as you please. I do high carb on days I workout and I lower carbs and raise protein on rest days.
 
iddc

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^^this
 

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