cant bulk without gaining too much fat

[factsmachine]

So im at 152, 5'10", about 14% bodyfat 18 years old. Ive been lifting for a few years and the biggest problem i have (i know, its a common one) i gain lots of weight, some strength and lots of fat. Im almost the heaviest ive ever been, heaviest was 158 a few weeks ago. But i had almost no definition.
So whats the way to do it? The only thing i can think of is eat for maintnence and try to lift as heavy as possible.
My training is almost all compound lifts, trying to lift slightly more each week. I train 3-4 times a week.
Im getting some progress but its not enough to notice in my body really. Still look small.

 

[zcol94]

Eat right around your maintenance maybe slightly over maintenance, if you feel like your gaining fat add a day or 2 of hiit cardio.... And I don't know if you have "designed" your own program or what but at your size you can't possibly have the experience required to do that so you should look into one of the established beginner programs, one of the 5x5 programs(madcow's, ripptoe's, or stronglifts's)would be good for you to try out

 

[kenpoengineer]

Facts, I'm 5'6" and 160 lbs. At 5'10" and 154 you can't consider yourself "fat". I'm thinking you may have a self image issue here. So many 18 year olds think the media skinny is healthy. It's not real life nor is it healthy. You mention you're 14% BF, to help you estimate this, here is a collage of pics and BF percentages:

I agree with post from Z above. Get on a good lifting program and recalculate your macro requirements at IIFYM dot com.

 

[AntM1564]

You can limit the amount of fat you gain by eating at a smaller surplus. You may read that a surplus of 500 cals is needed to grow, but that is not the case. Any surplus will help

 

[factsmachine]

I read articles and studies day in and day out, ive had some past problems that stopped me from lifting for about a year, but i never stopped learning everything i could. Yes i designed my own training program, ill post it.
*One warm up set before each new exercise is standard.
*Goal is to add weight or reps each week


Back (pull)
Pull ups 3 sets to fail each time. I get about 6-8 each set
Low cable row 3 sets heavy for 6-10 reps. My work weight is 100-135
One arm rows 3 sets 6-10 reps 45lbs
Lat pulldown 3 sets 6-10 reps 100-120lbs
One arm DB curls 3 sets 4-6 reps 35lbs
Face pulls 30-40lbs 3 sets 6-10 reps
Abs (usually planks and crunches)

Chest (push) i have a bad shoulder, so i focus more on back to help correct the imbalance. I also dont have a spotter.
DB press 3 sets 6-10 reps 45lbs
Explosive pushups 4 sets to failure sometimes i do them with my feet on a bench
Cant do dips with my shoulder.
Chest cable flyes 4 sets 10 reps
(I need a good tricep exercise that doesnt hurt my elbows and my shoulders)

Legs (i have knee tendonitis in both knees, for the last 2 years. Its getting better slowly)
Squats 105lbs emphasis on form with a pause at the bottom. 5 sets 6-10 reps
Deadlifts 95 lbs, just recently got the flexibility to do these again. 3 sets 5 reps
One leg calf raises bodyweight 4 sets to failure

 

[factsmachine]

Also ive done stronglifts, and doggcrapp (good results, really taxing on the joints doing rest pause) but it was difficult to move up in weight so i quit it and made my own.

I can agree with the comment on wanting to not have any fat, and the way the media has portrayed "healthy" (steroid use is common, especially for movies) yep, ive seen that chart. Im about 14 percent. Ill try a slight caloric surplus, or just maintnence and bump up the cals when im not lifting more each week.
In fact ill post a picture if i can figure out how.

 

[compudog]

it was difficult to move up in weight so i quit

Think I spotted your problem.

 

[factsmachine]

Such a close minded answer.

 

[scherbs]

Such a close minded answer.

Perhaps less than polite, but not inaccurate.
You are, by your own admission, not "making it on your own", so quitting a proven program b/c it is "too difficult to move up in weight" and substituting your own 'plan' might not be the best idea

 

[factsmachine]

Innacurate is believing that one way touted by one guy is going to work for everybody. My plan is working to fix imbalances and also gain muscle. My only problem was gaining too much fat trying to bulk. If you stop at one possible problem trying to fix one issue, when more than one factor is involved, youre not using logic.

 

[compudog]

Innacurate is believing that one way touted by one guy is going to work for everybody. My plan is working to fix imbalances and also gain muscle. My only problem was gaining too much fat trying to bulk. If you stop at one possible problem trying to fix one issue, when more than one factor is involved, youre not using logic.

If you knew me you wouldn't say that. I'm a computing scientist by trade, I make my living by being good at logic. You're actually the one that's not applying logic very well here. You seem to think that just by eating more you're going to magically grow muscle, instead you just get fatter. Which, if you were to use logic, would make perfect sense.

Here's the skinny (pun intended btw). How do you know how much to eat in order to grow muscle? By counting calories? But what if you eat *good* food, the kind that doesn't come with nutrition labels? How do you know then? Answer: you don't. It's not something you can "figure out". You grow muscle when you make demands on your musculature that your body can't deal with. Your body then responds by demanding more food from you, and then uses that food to grow more muscle. IOW, lift heavy, get hungry, eat more, grow.

So, if you're not growing either you're not lifting heavy enough or you're lifting heavy enough but not eating enough. If your'e getting fat your eating enough to grow muscle, so if you're not growing the only possibility left is, you're not lifting heavy enough.

Now, that's how you do logic. Also weightlifting. I trained my son when he was your age, he could pull 225 lb off the floor the first time he tried, and he was smaller than you, I think he was around 145 lb. at the time, & skinny as a rake. A year later he was pulling 315 with no problem, and now he can pull over 400 lb, and he doesn't even work out regularly. You can do better than a 95 lb deadlift, I think you probably just need to put a bit more effort into it.

 

[factsmachine]

I agree with most of your points besides the first. I could say that im in harvard, or i could say i dropped out of middle school. But speaking facts doesnt require a degree to make them true. That is also logic.

Id love to believe if i just put more effort into lifting i could magically lift more.
I put 95lbs because i just had some competing powerlifters i know help me withmy deadlift form, they had 135 on the bar. I struggled to lift it, especially with good form. Back when i was 14 i would deadlift more, at 130lbs BW. Im dedicated with my training and i push myself each time. But it doesnt make any sense to me that i was stronger at 14. Although i do have knee tendonitis in both knees now. And im sedentary most of the day unless im lifting, but i didnt think that would do anything but conserve calories.

So lets take a look at the whole picture. My vitamins, fish oil, and protein are in order. My nutrition is mostly natural. Im laying in a bed most of the day besides lifting, but i go for walks often (at my grandmas house there is no place to sit but the bed). I lift atleast 3 times a week. I train hard, but im not flexible and im working to fix injuries. Out of all of this i can now recognize that im probably eating too much because im sedentary. But besides this, what can we see?

 

[compudog]

I agree with most of your points besides the first. I could say that im in harvard, or i could say i dropped out of middle school. But speaking facts doesnt require a degree to make them true. That is also logic.

Id love to believe if i just put more effort into lifting i could magically lift more.
I put 95lbs because i just had some competing powerlifters i know help me withmy deadlift form, they had 135 on the bar. I struggled to lift it, especially with good form. Back when i was 14 i would deadlift more, at 130lbs BW. Im dedicated with my training and i push myself each time. But it doesnt make any sense to me that i was stronger at 14. Although i do have knee tendonitis in both knees now. And im sedentary most of the day unless im lifting, but i didnt think that would do anything but conserve calories.

So lets take a look at the whole picture. My vitamins, fish oil, and protein are in order. My nutrition is mostly natural. Im laying in a bed most of the day besides lifting, but i go for walks often (at my grandmas house there is no place to sit but the bed). I lift atleast 3 times a week. I train hard, but im not flexible and im working to fix injuries. Out of all of this i can now recognize that im probably eating too much because im sedentary. But besides this, what can we see?

A couple things. First of all, you don't need to pay too much attention to your diet for the purpose of bulking. It's better to listen to your body and eat when you're hungry. If you lift heavy you'll get hungry. Also, 3 days a week might not be enough. I work out 5 days a week and I'm closing in on 50. At 18 you should be able to hit the gym at least 4 days a week and recover just fine.

I've never tried it but I think DC is a program that's meant for intermediate to advanced lifters, which may be why you had issues with it. I think the standard recommendation for young guys is 5x5 program. 5x5 is a really good approach for beginners for a few reasons; it drills the form in for one thing, the volume is sufficient to promote rapid growth for another, and finally, it's hard to hurt yourself with a weight you can lift 25 times, so the risk of injury is low.

One last thing, don't let other people tell you what to do in the gym. When I taught my son to bench he got all kinds of flack from gym "gurus" who told him he was doing it "wrong". They had just never seen it done correctly. So what if you were struggling with 135? That's how you make progress. Like I said, you have to expose your musculature to stress it *can't* deal with. That means discomfort, DOMS, and yes a few crappy reps here and there. So what? If you focus on perfect form for every rep you'll never make any progress. Every lifter has to learn their own limits, and that means pushing yourself. Making gains by putting effort in isn't magic, it's just work, but you have to be smart about. You seem like a pretty perspicacious young person, I think if you apply yourself you'll be fine.

 

[factsmachine]

A couple things. First of all, you don't need to pay too much attention to your diet for the purpose of bulking. It's better to listen to your body and eat when you're hungry. If you lift heavy you'll get hungry. Also, 3 days a week might not be enough. I work out 5 days a week and I'm closing in on 50. At 18 you should be able to hit the gym at least 4 days a week and recover just fine.

I've never tried it but I think DC is a program that's meant for intermediate to advanced lifters, which may be why you had issues with it. I think the standard recommendation for young guys is 5x5 program. 5x5 is a really good approach for beginners for a few reasons; it drills the form in for one thing, the volume is sufficient to promote rapid growth for another, and finally, it's hard to hurt yourself with a weight you can lift 25 times, so the risk of injury is low.

One last thing, don't let other people tell you what to do in the gym. When I taught my son to bench he got all kinds of flack from gym "gurus" who told him he was doing it "wrong". They had just never seen it done correctly. So what if you were struggling with 135? That's how you make progress. Like I said, you have to expose your musculature to stress it *can't* deal with. That means discomfort, DOMS, and yes a few crappy reps here and there. So what? If you focus on perfect form for every rep you'll never make any progress. Every lifter has to learn their own limits, and that means pushing yourself. Making gains by putting effort in isn't magic, it's just work, but you have to be smart about. You seem like a pretty perspicacious young person, I think if you apply yourself you'll be fine.

Appetite has been one of my biggest problems my whole life. Its like my adrenaline is constantly running and my appetite dissapears. Its a challenge adjusting for all of these factors but thats how we learn. You, and most other people dont have this problem. Sleep is also a struggle for me. Im on peptides now and i feel better than i have in a long time, finally sleeping good and eating good. A person in a stance such as yours would probably reccomend stopping the peptides and going to the doctor, i have and all they want to do is give me xanax or antidepressants.
Ya know what, maybe ill try a stronglifts style program, plus a couple extras to correct my winged shoulderblades, and anterior tilted shoulders. Maybe thatll work better for me. You are a very motivating person, you have the right type of drive.
Im gonna go hit the gym now, ill periodically keep this thread updated to my progress! By the way, thanks man. It takes awareness and understanding to see it in another person. Im gonna try less for stressing over perfection and put more of that energy into lifting and motivation.

 

[RegisterJr]

Why don't you start a new log here with your workouts and nutritional info and/or changes in the training section?

You have to keep track of it anyway, and I figure you wouldn't mind some motivation and constructive criticism.

 

[factsmachine]

On this thread you mean? Forsure, im definitely down for that. We can both learn things, youre working with a different type of person than yourself. Thats the awesome part about different people, more insight.

Right now im at the gym, doing stronglifts. so far i did 95lb squats with perfect form, 85lb bent over rows, it was hard to keep my back aligned amd it kinda hurt, but i tried my best to keep my abs tight. A lack of flexibility in my hips and ankles is a concern. Now im on bench, doing 115 5x5. Hard with my shoulder, my right shoulder wants to move a different way than my left but its hard to keep it aligned. A while back a chiro told me i had mild scoliosis.

 

[RegisterJr]

Now im on bench, doing 115 5x5. Hard with my shoulder, my right shoulder wants to move a different way than my left but its hard to keep it aligned. A while back a chiro told me i had mild scoliosis.

That's no good.

Take a look at the videos on YouTube labeled "so you think you can bench". The form they teach, the power form, makes presses on your shoulders a little safer.

I'm still trying to switch over myself.

 

[factsmachine]

That's no good.

Take a look at the videos on YouTube labeled "so you think you can bench". The form they teach, the power form, makes presses on your shoulders a little safer.

I'm still trying to switch over myself.

So post workout i had a shot of ghrp-2, protein shake and some gatoraid with creatine. Still need food.
Id definitely rep you if it was worth the small ammount of rep power i have haha! Ill check it out brotha.
Lets see, without looking at the video first we can try to see how similar my form is to that.
First i tighten up my body, specifically shoulder blades, glutes, core and put a big arch into my back i squeeze my shoulderblades together back and down. I have no spot, so i lose tension when i unrack.
But then i try to keep my elbows at a 45 degree angle as i go down and my wrists straight. My shoulder just gets real wierd during the movement.

 

[RegisterJr]

So post workout i had a shot of ghrp-2, protein shake and some gatoraid with creatine. Still need food.
Id definitely rep you if it was worth the small ammount of rep power i have haha! Ill check it out brotha.
Lets see, without looking at the video first we can try to see how similar my form is to that.
First i tighten up my body, specifically shoulder blades, glutes, core and put a big arch into my back i squeeze my shoulderblades together back and down. I have no spot, so i lose tension when i unrack.
But then i try to keep my elbows at a 45 degree angle as i go down and my wrists straight. My shoulder just gets real wierd during the movement.

I do the same excluding the shoulder, and really need to work on a larger arch. No worries on the rep bro.

 

[scherbs]

So post workout i had a shot of ghrp-2, protein shake and some gatoraid with creatine. Still need food.
Id definitely rep you if it was worth the small ammount of rep power i have haha! Ill check it out brotha.
Lets see, without looking at the video first we can try to see how similar my form is to that.
First i tighten up my body, specifically shoulder blades, glutes, core and put a big arch into my back i squeeze my shoulderblades together back and down. I have no spot, so i lose tension when i unrack.
But then i try to keep my elbows at a 45 degree angle as i go down and my wrists straight. My shoulder just gets real wierd during the movement.

At the risk of being critical, this post shows a great deal of your problem: you talk first about the crap you are putting in your body and THEN about your training.
Reverse your priorities and you may start seeing some progress.