Need advice. Tweaking my macros.

[IPOM]

So I'm on a bulking diet and I'm trying to get lean gains. I life weights 3 times a week for about 2 hours each day. I do cardio on the off days for 30 minutes each day and also work abs and neck on those days. I take Sunday off completely. My diet consists of clean foods like eggs, rolled oats, fruit, fresh vegetables, chicken, fish, occasional beef and pork, rice, potatoes, fat free cottage cheese, nut butter, and olive oil. I'm also drinking 2 gainer shakes each day to supplement my macros. I drink them in between breakfast and lunch, and again after my workout in the afternoon (before dinner). I'm also taking creatine @ 5g a day.

I know some bodyfat is part of bulking, but I'm starting to accumulate some fat in the love-handle area and lower abs. I also notice that I'm nowhere near as vascular as I use to be. A little bodyfat is fine with me but I'm not digging the dimpled flesh on my obliques when I flex them. How should I tweak my macros to reduce some of the bodyfat??? Also, do you guys think I should do cardio following lifting so I'm doing it every day except Sunday???

Calories: 4020
Fat: 110
Carbs: 450
Protein: 335

 

[VinD]

My simple answer would be to get rid of all the fat you can. If you eat the occasional beef, then you'll get it anyways. I'd stay away from pork, it's mostly just fat. What's your 3 day lifting split look like?

 

[IPOM]

My simple answer would be to get rid of all the fat you can. If you eat the occasional beef, then you'll get it anyways. I'd stay away from pork, it's mostly just fat. What's your 3 day lifting split look like?

So you think it's the PB and EVOO that's causing the fat build-up?

Here's what my split is currently... It has been tweaked since I started to add a little more volume, as I wasn't feeling sufficiently worked.

TUESDAY
Incline DB Press (2 X 5, 2 X 8)
Weighted Dips (3 X 8)
Flat-Bench Butterflies (3 X 10)
OH DB Press (3 X 8)
Lateral Raises (3 X 10)
Reverse Pec-Deck (3 X 10)
BB Shrugs (3 X 8)
Pushdowns (3 X 8)

THURSDAY
Squats (Smith) (3 X 5, 1 X 10)
Seated Leg Curls (3 X 10)
Leg Extensions (2 X 10)
Seated Calf Raises (4 X 15)
Rev. Grip Lat Pulldowns (4 X 8)
BB Rows (3 X 8)
Seated Cable Rows (3 X 8)
Preacher DB Curls (3 X 8)
Machine Preachers (2 X 20)

SATURDAY
Hammer Strength Incline (2 X 5, 2 X 8)
Flat DB Press (3 X 8)
Pec-Deck (3 X 10)
Military Press (3 X 8)
Lateral Raises (3 X 10)
Reverse Pec-Deck (3 X 10)
DB Shrugs (3 X 8)
Skulls (3 X 8)

TUESDAY
SLDL (3 X 6)
Leg Press (3 X 8)
Leg Extensions (2 X 10)
Standing Calf Raises (4 X 15)
Behind Neck Lat Pulldowns (4 X 8)
DB Rows (3 X 8)
Machine Pullovers (3 X 10)
Hammer Curls (3 X 8)
21s (2 sets)

 

[IPOM]

Here's a typical day's meal layout...

6am:
7 egg whites and 1 whole egg (fried)
1 cup of rolled oats
1 banana
1 Tbsp natural peanut butter

9am:
ON Pro Complex Gainer shake

12pm:
2 talapia fillets
1/2 cup (before cooking) of white rice
1 cup of a raw veggie
2 Tbsp EVOO

Pre-Workout:
1 scoop of whey, 1/2 cup rolled oats, 1 banana (blended)

Post-Workout:
ON Pro Complex Gainer shake w/creatine

7pm:
1 boneless/skinless chicken breast
1 baked potato
1 cup steamed veggies
2 Tbsp EVOO

9pm:
1 cup fat-free cottage cheese
1 Tbsp natural peanut butter

 

[VinD]

Yeah. I'd get rid of the Peanut Butter. Just added fat. If you insist on not losing the calories from it, just eat more chicken or another lean protein. If you really wanna get lean gains, you have to eat an excess of calories, but very lean as well. Have you ever considered a full 5-6 day split?

 

[jimbuick]

Why wouldn't you want high fat? If you're gaining too much bf then you have too big of a surplus. Take away some carbs and honestly 335g of protein is probably too much.

I eat 120g fat a day. It supports healthy hormone production and it's the most calorie dense macronitrient. There is no reason to lower your fat, its actually pretty low in comparison to your other macros already.

 

[VinD]

Just saying what has worked for me in the past to put on lean mass.

 

[jimbuick]

Just saying what has worked for me in the past to put on lean mass.

But you need to look at the whole picture. Did you do the exact same.surplus more than one time with one having more fat and less carbs and one doing the opposite?

Because as long as minimum protein and fat requirements are met for muscular growth the surplus can come from anywhere whether it be more carbs, protein, or fat. What really matters is the surplus, not the form of macronutrient breakdown that created it.

 

[IPOM]

Have you ever considered a full 5-6 day split?

Do you have an example? I'm doing this split to gain size and strength. Once I get to a bigger body and my strength starts to peak with these exercises, then I'll go into sculpting mode, which will require a different program.

 

[VinD]

Do you have an example? I'm doing this split to gain size and strength. Once I get to a bigger body and my strength starts to peak with these exercises, then I'll go into sculpting mode, which will require a different program.

Many of my friends and myself have gained very good natural physiques from doing this split:

1 Legs
2 Chest
3 Back
4 Shoulders
5 Arms
6 Abs/Rest
7 Repeat

How long have you been lifting?

 

[VinD]

But you need to look at the whole picture. Did you do the exact same.surplus more than one time with one having more fat and less carbs and one doing the opposite?

Because as long as minimum protein and fat requirements are met for muscular growth the surplus can come from anywhere whether it be more carbs, protein, or fat. What really matters is the surplus, not the form of macronutrient breakdown that created it.

I haven't done that. What you say makes sense. Surplus is very important. I guess in the past I've felt better from surplusing carbs and protein primarily. I will admit when doing heavy bulking, I eat burgers, etc. And "minimum" protein requirements are a very arguable issue.

 

[AaronJP1]

Many of my friends and myself have gained very good natural physiques from doing this split:

1 Legs
2 Chest
3 Back
4 Shoulders
5 Arms
6 Abs/Rest
7 Repeat

How long have you been lifting?

Good info, but there not really a one size fits all ya know.
How many reps/sets were you doing on this split?

 

[VinD]

Good info, but there not really a one size fits all ya know.
How many reps/sets were you doing on this split?

Well when I started I was doing about 12-14 sets (reps always between 5-15). Now I can handle about 20 sets per bodypart. For abs I do about 100-300 total reps total. I pyramid my weight up for each exercise then do 1 dropset at the end of the exercise (usually). I change up the exercises weekly.

 

[Jiigzz]

My simple answer would be to get rid of all the fat you can. If you eat the occasional beef, then you'll get it anyways. I'd stay away from pork, it's mostly just fat. What's your 3 day lifting split look like?

Poor advice bro, and simply, its the wrong advice. Fat intake does NOT make you fat. The biggest myth in the world.
You're getting 'fatter' because your eating in excess and the amount of calorie excess will determine the amount of fat gain.

 

[Jiigzz]

So you think it's the PB and EVOO that's causing the fat build-up?

Here's what my split is currently... It has been tweaked since I started to add a little more volume, as I wasn't feeling sufficiently worked.

TUESDAY
Incline DB Press (2 X 5, 2 X 8)
Weighted Dips (3 X 8)
Flat-Bench Butterflies (3 X 10)
OH DB Press (3 X 8)
Lateral Raises (3 X 10)
Reverse Pec-Deck (3 X 10)
BB Shrugs (3 X 8)
Pushdowns (3 X 8)

THURSDAY
Squats (Smith) (3 X 5, 1 X 10)
Seated Leg Curls (3 X 10)
Leg Extensions (2 X 10)
Seated Calf Raises (4 X 15)
Rev. Grip Lat Pulldowns (4 X 8)
BB Rows (3 X 8)
Seated Cable Rows (3 X 8)
Preacher DB Curls (3 X 8)
Machine Preachers (2 X 20)

SATURDAY
Hammer Strength Incline (2 X 5, 2 X 8)
Flat DB Press (3 X 8)
Pec-Deck (3 X 10)
Military Press (3 X 8)
Lateral Raises (3 X 10)
Reverse Pec-Deck (3 X 10)
DB Shrugs (3 X 8)
Skulls (3 X 8)

TUESDAY
SLDL (3 X 6)
Leg Press (3 X 8)
Leg Extensions (2 X 10)
Standing Calf Raises (4 X 15)
Behind Neck Lat Pulldowns (4 X 8)
DB Rows (3 X 8)
Machine Pullovers (3 X 10)
Hammer Curls (3 X 8)
21s (2 sets)

This needs tweaking, compounds should ALWAYS go before isolation. Never the other way around; pre-fatiguing a muscle group in this fashion is not a good idea. Military press, Flat bench, Squat, Deadlift should take the first postion in ALL of your workouts that consist of these. If you want strength and size, thse movements need to be in your routine.

Do normal squats, drop the smith machine. Drop leg extensions + leg curls for something more functional i.e. lunges, pistol squats etc etc (in replacement of leg extensions) and good mornings, RDLs, stiff legged deads in the place of leg curls. Far more functional and effective (the hamstrings work better at hip extension rather than knee flexion).

Could be more but im in a rush, just saw this and had to comment

 

[jimbuick]

This needs tweaking, compounds should ALWAYS go before isolation. Never the other way around; pre-fatiguing a muscle group in this fashion is not a good idea. Military press, Flat bench, Squat, Deadlift should take the first postion in ALL of your workouts that consist of these. If you want strength and size, thse movements need to be in your routine.

Do normal squats, drop the smith machine. Drop leg extensions + leg curls for something more functional i.e. lunges, pistol squats etc etc (in replacement of leg extensions) and good mornings, RDLs, stiff legged deads in the place of leg curls. Far more functional and effective (the hamstrings work better at hip extension rather than knee flexion).

Could be more but im in a rush, just saw this and had to comment

Pull throughs, glute Ham raises

 

[Jiigzz]

Pull throughs, glute Ham raises

Definitely. Good points

Oh and PB and EVOO should be left in your diet

 

[IPOM]

This needs tweaking, compounds should ALWAYS go before isolation. Never the other way around; pre-fatiguing a muscle group in this fashion is not a good idea. Military press, Flat bench, Squat, Deadlift should take the first postion in ALL of your workouts that consist of these. If you want strength and size, thse movements need to be in your routine.

Do normal squats, drop the smith machine. Drop leg extensions + leg curls for something more functional i.e. lunges, pistol squats etc etc (in replacement of leg extensions) and good mornings, RDLs, stiff legged deads in the place of leg curls. Far more functional and effective (the hamstrings work better at hip extension rather than knee flexion).

Could be more but im in a rush, just saw this and had to comment

Could you please explain further? My routine does have the compound exercises first, for each muscle group. Do yuo mean that say, on my chest/shoulder day I should do the DB presses and shoulder presses first and then do the flies and lateral raises afterwards? I was just trying to keep the muscle groups separated.

I would like to go to a split with a body part each day for 5-6 days a week, but I didn't feel like I was making good progress doing that.

BTW, I'm not taking gear if that makes a difference in the split.

 

[IPOM]

Many of my friends and myself have gained very good natural physiques from doing this split:

1 Legs
2 Chest
3 Back
4 Shoulders
5 Arms
6 Abs/Rest
7 Repeat

How long have you been lifting?

I may give this a try again. I was on a split similar to that before I started bulking. I went with my current program because of the maximum recovery. But I have added to my current split because I didn't feel like I was working the muscle groups hard enough.

I've been lifting on/off for over 10 years. Lifting seriously for a little over a year.

 

[VinD]

If you do that 6/7 day split and hit each bodypart hard with 14-20 sets, I think you'll get good results. I do cardio about twice a week, but you could do it more. I just run low on time and calories.

 

[IPOM]

If you do that 6/7 day split and hit each bodypart hard with 14-20 sets, I think you'll get good results. I do cardio about twice a week, but you could do it more. I just run low on time and calories.

You do cardio after the lift or do you do it later in the day?

Also, on leg days would you recommend doing deadlifts, squats, and leg presses together?

 

[jimbuick]

You do cardio after the lift or do you do it later in the day?

Also, on leg days would you recommend doing deadlifts, squats, and leg presses together?

Some people do but if you do squat and deadlift together one of them will suffer. If you insist on doing a split a good idea is DL on back day and squat with leg day

 

[IPOM]

How would this sound for a new program?

Legs:
- SLDL (3 sets of 6)
- Squats (3 sets of 8)
- Leg Press (3 sets of 8)
- Leg Extension (3 sets of 8)
- Standing Calf Raises (4 sets of 15)

Chest:
- Incline Bench Press (3 sets of 8)
- Bench Press Machine (3 sets of 8)
- Weighted Dips (3 sets of 8)
- Flat Bench DB Press (3 sets of 8)
- Incline Butterfly (3 sets of 10)

Back:
- Chin-Ups (3 sets of 12)
- Barbell Rows (3 sets of 8)
- Dumbbell Rows (3 sets of 8)
- Reverse Grip Lat Pulldowns (3 sets of 8)
- Behind Neck Lat Pulldowns (3 sets of 8)
- Pullover Machine (3 sets of 10)

Shoulders:
- Military Press (3 sets of 8)
- DB Shoulder Press (3 sets of 8)
- Lateral DB Raises (3 sets of 8)
- Reverse Pec-Deck (3 sets of 8)
- Shrugs (4 sets of 10)

Arms:
- Standing BB Curls (3 sets of 8)
- DB Preacher Curls (3 sets of 8)
- 21's (3 sets)
- Close-Grip Bench Press (3 sets of 8)
- Skulls (3 sets of 8)
- Cable Pushdowns (3 sets of 8)

Abs/Rest

Repeat

 

[VinD]

How would this sound for a new program?

Legs:
- SLDL (3 sets of 6)
- Squats (3 sets of 8)
- Leg Press (3 sets of 8)
- Leg Extension (3 sets of 8)
- Standing Calf Raises (4 sets of 15)

Chest:
- Incline Bench Press (3 sets of 8)
- Bench Press Machine (3 sets of 8)
- Weighted Dips (3 sets of 8)
- Flat Bench DB Press (3 sets of 8)
- Incline Butterfly (3 sets of 10)

Back:
- Chin-Ups (3 sets of 12)
- Barbell Rows (3 sets of 8)
- Dumbbell Rows (3 sets of 8)
- Reverse Grip Lat Pulldowns (3 sets of 8)
- Behind Neck Lat Pulldowns (3 sets of 8)
- Pullover Machine (3 sets of 10)

Shoulders:
- Military Press (3 sets of 8)
- DB Shoulder Press (3 sets of 8)
- Lateral DB Raises (3 sets of 8)
- Reverse Pec-Deck (3 sets of 8)
- Shrugs (4 sets of 10)

Arms:
- Standing BB Curls (3 sets of 8)
- DB Preacher Curls (3 sets of 8)
- 21's (3 sets)
- Close-Grip Bench Press (3 sets of 8)
- Skulls (3 sets of 8)
- Cable Pushdowns (3 sets of 8)

Abs/Rest

Repeat

That looks pretty solid. Like I said, I always play with the workouts, add exercises, change them, etc. from week to week to keep it new. As for cardio, I usually do it after my lifting so I'm not fatigued at all for the lift. I mean you can plug through cardio, but you need all your strength for your best lift. Just my opinion. Hope that helps.

 

[jimbuick]

Don't see any specific rear delt work. Unless reverse pec deck is rear delt.

 

[VinD]

Don't see any specific rear delt work. Unless reverse pec deck is rear delt.

Pretty sure it is. Rear delts are tricky if you're in a gym with lousy equipment.

 

[jimbuick]

Pretty sure it is. Rear delts are tricky if you're in a gym with lousy equipment.

Face pulls. Triceps rope and low pulley is all you need.

 

[VinD]

Face pulls. Triceps rope and low pulley is all you need.

That works too haha. I had to do some of those last week while some D-bags were hogging the Rear Delt machine for some reason.

 

[Jiigzz]

How would this sound for a new program?

Legs:
- SLDL (3 sets of 6)
- Squats (3 sets of 8)
- Leg Press (3 sets of 8)
- Leg Extension (3 sets of 8)
- Standing Calf Raises (4 sets of 15)

Chest:
- Incline Bench Press (3 sets of 8)
- Bench Press Machine (3 sets of 8)
- Weighted Dips (3 sets of 8)
- Flat Bench DB Press (3 sets of 8)
- Incline Butterfly (3 sets of 10)

Back:
- Chin-Ups (3 sets of 12)
- Barbell Rows (3 sets of 8)
- Dumbbell Rows (3 sets of 8)
- Reverse Grip Lat Pulldowns (3 sets of 8)
- Behind Neck Lat Pulldowns (3 sets of 8)
- Pullover Machine (3 sets of 10)

Shoulders:
- Military Press (3 sets of 8)
- DB Shoulder Press (3 sets of 8)
- Lateral DB Raises (3 sets of 8)
- Reverse Pec-Deck (3 sets of 8)
- Shrugs (4 sets of 10)

Arms:
- Standing BB Curls (3 sets of 8)
- DB Preacher Curls (3 sets of 8)
- 21's (3 sets)
- Close-Grip Bench Press (3 sets of 8)
- Skulls (3 sets of 8)
- Cable Pushdowns (3 sets of 8)

Abs/Rest

Repeat

Just FWI you shouldnt use a machine for any big lifts, the path the bar has to follow is not usually your normal pressing pattern or natural pushing curve. I'd always recommend starting with flat bench as this hits the clavicular fibers and sternum fibers of the pec major whereas the incline tends to just hit the clavicular head. Better to hit both when you can hit them the hardest then "isolate" (in a sense but not really) the sternal head.

If i was going to be even more of an ass i'd also say you should do some adductor/abductor work.

To top that off jim suggested face pulls, i would definitely incorporate these. Facepulls target mid traps and rhomboids

 

[IPOM]

Some people do but if you do squat and deadlift together one of them will suffer. If you insist on doing a split a good idea is DL on back day and squat with leg day

I see what you mean. I can definitely do deadlifts on back day, as that's what I'm doing now. But that would leave squats and leg presses for leg day... what would you suggest to target the hams? Or would the deads on back day be enough for the hams in your opinion???

 

[IPOM]

That looks pretty solid. Like I said, I always play with the workouts, add exercises, change them, etc. from week to week to keep it new. As for cardio, I usually do it after my lifting so I'm not fatigued at all for the lift. I mean you can plug through cardio, but you need all your strength for your best lift. Just my opinion. Hope that helps.

That's what I was thinking. I would never do cardio before lifting. I just didn't know if you did it right after the lift or if you were doing 2-a-days and knocking out the cardio in the afternoon. Now I know. Thanks!

 

[IPOM]

Don't see any specific rear delt work. Unless reverse pec deck is rear delt.

Yeah, the reverse pec-deck is for the rear delts. I target them pretty good with that. I've never done facr pulls though and may try them out.

 

[IPOM]

Just FWI you shouldnt use a machine for any big lifts, the path the bar has to follow is not usually your normal pressing pattern or natural pushing curve. I'd always recommend starting with flat bench as this hits the clavicular fibers and sternum fibers of the pec major whereas the incline tends to just hit the clavicular head. Better to hit both when you can hit them the hardest then "isolate" (in a sense but not really) the sternal head.

If i was going to be even more of an ass i'd also say you should do some adductor/abductor work.

To top that off jim suggested face pulls, i would definitely incorporate these. Facepulls target mid traps and rhomboids

Yeah, you're getting a little too technical for me bro... HAHA! I try to avoid flat bench as I feel it's more of an ego lift than anything else. Plus I don't really care for the shoulder stress. So you're saying to do flat bench followed by incline bench and then isolate? Do you consider dumbbell presses isolation? Reason I ask is it seems more like a compound to me. When I think isolation for chest, I think butterflies.

 

[uvawahoowa]

I see what you mean. I can definitely do deadlifts on back day, as that's what I'm doing now. But that would leave squats and leg presses for leg day... what would you suggest to target the hams? Or would the deads on back day be enough for the hams in your opinion???

Rdls, sldls, and GHRs for hams

 

[uvawahoowa]

Rdls, sldls, and GHRs for hams

Hit them on leg day, probably best if leg and back day are separated by at least two days to avoid overworking the lower back

 

[jimbuick]

Rdls, sldls, and GHRs for hams

Pull throughs as well.

 

[fueledpassion]

I'm sure others have already said plenty on the matter, but as far as macros go - ur too high on fats. As a bodybuilder u do not need 30% of ur diet to be fats. Why? 2 reasons.

1) Your trying to get lean. Fat is the by far the easiest macro to be converted into fat droplets. Easy solution - reduce fat intake as low as u can.

2) Your eating a ton of carbs and protein, so the argument for fat as energy is moot. You get plenty of energy and nutrients from the other macros. If u need more energy, take MCT oil.

Reduce dietary fat. Supplement with Omega-6 fats (but not too much). You want just enough fat to maintain health. I prefer the 10-15% range myself.

 

[VinD]

I'm sure others have already said plenty on the matter, but as far as macros go - ur too high on fats. As a bodybuilder u do not need 30% of ur diet to be fats. Why? 2 reasons.

1) Your trying to get lean. Fat is the by far the easiest macro to be converted into fat droplets. Easy solution - reduce fat intake as low as u can.

2) Your eating a ton of carbs and protein, so the argument for fat as energy is moot. You get plenty of energy and nutrients from the other macros. If u need more energy, take MCT oil.

Reduce dietary fat. Supplement with Omega-6 fats (but not too much). You want just enough fat to maintain health. I prefer the 10-15% range myself.

I agree with this... Also, Dumbbell presses are great!

 

[Jiigzz]

Yeah, you're getting a little too technical for me bro... HAHA! I try to avoid flat bench as I feel it's more of an ego lift than anything else. Plus I don't really care for the shoulder stress. So you're saying to do flat bench followed by incline bench and then isolate? Do you consider dumbbell presses isolation? Reason I ask is it seems more like a compound to me. When I think isolation for chest, I think butterflies.

You stated in your initial spiel that you wanted strength yet you ignore the flat bench? A good strength routine doesnt ignore specific lifts that are fundamental. Dumbell presses are not isolation but shouldn't be used in the place of flat bench in a strength program. Hypertrophy perhaps, but not strength. Also, shoulder stress will come from incorrect technique (i.e. not retracting scapulae, too-wide-of-a-grip etc.) rather than from the exercise itself, considering dumbell presses are exaactly the same movement at the shoulder (horizontal flexion) however you are able to press each shoulder in its own 'plane of movement'.

Google "so you think you can bench" and watch parts 1-7. Worthwhile.

Also, if you want more advice start a thread in the training section, people tend to ignore the bulking one if their expertise is in training and program design.

 

[Jiigzz]

I'm sure others have already said plenty on the matter, but as far as macros go - ur too high on fats. As a bodybuilder u do not need 30% of ur diet to be fats. Why? 2 reasons.

1) Your trying to get lean. Fat is the by far the easiest macro to be converted into fat droplets. Easy solution - reduce fat intake as low as u can.

2) Your eating a ton of carbs and protein, so the argument for fat as energy is moot. You get plenty of energy and nutrients from the other macros. If u need more energy, take MCT oil.

Reduce dietary fat. Supplement with Omega-6 fats (but not too much). You want just enough fat to maintain health. I prefer the 10-15% range myself.

I agree with this... Also, Dumbbell presses are great!

You do realise that fat plays a role in hormone production and that saturated fats play a role in testosterone production?

You do not have to have excessive fat intake, but eating fat does not make you fat. So Fueled Passion is incorrect in this regard. Eating in calorie excess will make you heavier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNYlIcXynwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

If you're going to watch one, watch the 2nd one down.

 

[fueledpassion]

You do realise that fat plays a role in hormone production and that saturated fats play a role in testosterone production?

You do not have to have excessive fat intake, but eating fat does not make you fat. So Fueled Passion is incorrect in this regard. Eating in calorie excess will make you heavier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNYlIcXynwEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

If you're going to watch one, watch the 2nd one down.

This low-fat suggestion isnt about cholesterol, actually. Given that ur liver produces about 90% of the cholesterol in ur body - I'd also say dietary fats have little to do with cholesterol.

What I'm really hitting on is something that I did not speak about - food efficiencies. Fat has a high food efficiency and therefore requires the LEAST amount of calories from ur body to store up as fat. Its already in proper form and requires little work to process. Sure, it gives energy and abundantly! But it doesn't provide instant glucose energy like carbs do. Carbs are a bit lower in the food efficiency - they require exactly 10 times the amount of energy from the body when compared to fats to be converted over to fatty acids. Protein has an even lower food efficiency along with fibrous carbs and MCT oil tops them all. U burn more calories processing MCT oil than any other macro plus it loads ur body up with ketones to facilitate fat burning.

This topic could go way into technical metabolism topics which I feel.most would want to avoid. However, I do have the knowledge base to expand if needed.

My post is about metabolism, keeping only the minimal amounts of fats in ur body that it needs while keeping the metabolism sky high. Dont believe me? I weigh 157lbs, around 10% BF at this point, and eat 3500 calories per day to maintain my weight. I have to eat as much as a 220lb man to pack on weight with this diet. It doesnt contribute to fat storage at all.

 

[Jiigzz]

This low-fat suggestion isnt about cholesterol, actually. Given that ur liver produces about 90% of the cholesterol in ur body - I'd also say dietary fats have little to do with cholesterol.

What I'm really hitting on is something that I did not speak about - food efficiencies. Fat has a high food efficiency and therefore requires the LEAST amount of calories from ur body to store up as fat. Its already in proper form and requires little work to process. Sure, it gives energy and abundantly! But it doesn't provide instant glucose energy like carbs do. Carbs are a bit lower in the food efficiency - they require exactly 10 times the amount of energy from the body when compared to fats to be converted over to fatty acids. Protein has an even lower food efficiency along with fibrous carbs and MCT oil tops them all. U burn more calories processing MCT oil than any other macro plus it loads ur body up with ketones to facilitate fat burning.

This topic could go way into technical metabolism topics which I feel.most would want to avoid. However, I do have the knowledge base to expand if needed.

My post is about metabolism, keeping only the minimal amounts of fats in ur body that it needs while keeping the metabolism sky high. Dont believe me? I weigh 157lbs, around 10% BF at this point, and eat 3500 calories per day to maintain my weight. I have to eat as much as a 220lb man to pack on weight with this diet. It doesnt contribute to fat storage at all.

But now you're stating something completly different. you initially stated that eating fat will prevent you getting lean, which is not true. In fact, when cutting, limiting carbohydrate intake (to above levels of ketosis) will mean that the body has to utilise stored fat instead of relying on glycogen. And while it is of course possible to drop bf% while maintaining a high carb diet, many people find low carb- high fat as their best option.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8901785

Metabolism is something completely different and rates of cellular metabolism will differ wildly amoung different groups of people and is dependant on a whole range of factors. So anecdotal evidence is moot. I was merely commenting that eating fat does not make you fat.

MCT oil doesnt require energy for utilisation or storage. What do you mean when you say it uses more energy processing?

 

[VinD]

I think if this guy drops his fat intake a little he'll lean up.

 

[fueledpassion]

But now you're stating something completly different. you initially stated that eating fat will prevent you getting lean, which is not true. In fact, when cutting, limiting carbohydrate intake (to above levels of ketosis) will mean that the body has to utilise stored fat instead of relying on glycogen. And while it is of course possible to drop bf% while maintaining a high carb diet, many people find low carb- high fat as their best option.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.goqv/pubmed/8901785

Metabolism is something completely different and rates of cellular metabolism will differ wildly amoung different groups of people and is dependant on a whole range of factors. So anecdotal evidence is moot. I was merely commenting that eating fat does not make you fat.

MCT oil doesnt require energy for utilisation or storage. What do you mean when you say it uses more energy processing?

I agree about the insulin and carbs contributing to fat gain as well. I got the notion that the OP was trying to bulk but was unhappy with the additional fat accumulation. To keep on a bulking diet but limiting fat accumulation, you cant cut carbs. You cant cut protein. But u can cut fats and replace most of those lost calories with MCT oil and increasing the other macros - carbs and protein. MCT releases alot of heat because the liver cant keep up with the breakdown of the tricglyceride. (I'm referring to the Krebs Cycle) This fat doesnt have the same metabolic pathway as regular fats. Its structured properly to travel throigh the portal vein and into the liver to be processed as pure energy. As I said before, lots of heat is released! I usually break out in heat-flashing sweats after I consume a few hundred calories of MCT.


But speaking on what u were saying before, dietary fat does get stored as fat after u eat it, period. Once stored, this fat may or may not be used for energy depending on what ur diet looks like. Low carb diet do increase fat utilization - I agree. This is a survival aspect. But what I'm sayin is that reducing carbs during a mass building cycle is not the most effective. You need the insulin to provide proper nutrient partitioning to the muscles. Those muscles need glucose for immediate energy, protein and amino acids should be used pre-dominantly for growth and fats should be put on the backburner. Thats why I said to supplement MCT oil in place of cutting the fats. This prevents u from losing energy and calories since MCT's have about the same calories as Long chain triglycerides per gram. I havent disagreed with anything u've said except that fat can make u fat. Just go eat a tub of crisco for a week and see what happens. I know, I know. You'll say thats because total calories exceed the amount burned so u get fat. Well, my point is this: what would happen if you ate 5lbs of chicken breast and 10 cups of brown rice everyday for a week? Would u get fat?

Not all calories are equal. Dietary fat goes into fat cells. Protein tends to go to muscle and carbs can go either way depending on which carbs u eat. Slow releasing and fibrous types go to muscles for energy and simple sugars can go either way depending on when u eat them and how much of them u eat.

I dont disagree with u on just about everything u've said except the idea that fat does not make u fat. It can. Especially if u have a moderate to high intake, a less-than-stellar metabolism and u do very little cardio. In that scenario it doesnt take much fat intake at all to get u chubby.

Again, I say replace a good portion of ur proteins and starches with dietary fats and see if they dont make you fatter. And if it helps, I've done this diet and still do and it has brought me to a much more competitive level than ever before.

 

[Jiigzz]

I think if this guy drops his fat intake a little he'll lean up.

Based on what exactly?

 

[Jiigzz]

I agree about the insulin and carbs contributing to fat gain as well. I got the notion that the OP was trying to bulk but was unhappy with the additional fat accumulation. To keep on a bulking diet but limiting fat accumulation, you cant cut carbs. You cant cut protein. But u can cut fats and replace most of those lost calories with MCT oil and increasing the other macros - carbs and protein. MCT releases alot of heat because the liver cant keep up with the breakdown of the tricglyceride. (I'm referring to the Krebs Cycle) This fat doesnt have the same metabolic pathway as regular fats. Its structured properly to travel throigh the portal vein and into the liver to be processed as pure energy. As I said before, lots of heat is released! I usually break out in heat-flashing sweats after I consume a few hundred calories of MCT.


But speaking on what u were saying before, dietary fat does get stored as fat after u eat it, period. Once stored, this fat may or may not be used for energy depending on what ur diet looks like. Low carb diet do increase fat utilization - I agree. This is a survival aspect. But what I'm sayin is that reducing carbs during a mass building cycle is not the most effective. You need the insulin to provide proper nutrient partitioning to the muscles. Those muscles need glucose for immediate energy, protein and amino acids should be used pre-dominantly for growth and fats should be put on the backburner. Thats why I said to supplement MCT oil in place of cutting the fats. This prevents u from losing energy and calories since MCT's have about the same calories as Long chain triglycerides per gram. I havent disagreed with anything u've said except that fat can make u fat. Just go eat a tub of crisco for a week and see what happens. I know, I know. You'll say thats because total calories exceed the amount burned so u get fat. Well, my point is this: what would happen if you ate 5lbs of chicken breast and 10 cups of brown rice everyday for a week? Would u get fat?

Not all calories are equal. Dietary fat goes into fat cells. Protein tends to go to muscle and carbs can go either way depending on which carbs u eat. Slow releasing and fibrous types go to muscles for energy and simple sugars can go either way depending on when u eat them and how much of them u eat.

I dont disagree with u on just about everything u've said except the idea that fat does not make u fat. It can. Especially if u have a moderate to high intake, a less-than-stellar metabolism and u do very little cardio. In that scenario it doesnt take much fat intake at all to get u chubby.

Again, I say replace a good portion of ur proteins and starches with dietary fats and see if they dont make you fatter. And if it helps, I've done this diet and still do and it has brought me to a much more competitive level than ever before.

Eating fat does not make you fat; read the study I posted. That is simply not true at all. Atkins diets are based off this notion of high fat low carb and they are effective. That advice is simply not true and based on very flawed research. May I ask where this research was obtianed from i would like to have a read, always keen to further my understanding.

More evidence, which proves my point:
http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0021/ea0021p152.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19722015?dopt=Abstract

On a side note, and Rodja has posted on this before; brown rice is not very good for you. In terms of G.I. and Leptins (I think it was leptins).

But back on track, there are also studies which link high carb diets to obesity, some I have linked to previously;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/727999?dopt=Abstract
http://www.dietdoctor.com/how-carbs-make-you-fat (not a study but shows link between leptins and insulin).

And its not a "survival aspect", FFA's are utilised more readily in the Krebs cycle than Glucose (i.e. long steady state exercise relies on fat more than glycogen) whereas the PCr and Glycolytic systems rely on glucose...

Ever heard of Gluconeogenesis? Search it. It is the "making of glucose from non-glucose sources", Glycerol falls into this category.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbohydrate_diet

 

[VinD]

Based on what exactly?

Mainly the pork. Maybe less burgers. Don't add oil to stuff or add less.

 

[Jiigzz]

Mainly the pork. Maybe less burgers. Don't add oil to stuff or add less.

Not what I meant. Why low fat? wheres the research to back up the point that a high fat diet has a negitive imapct on adipose tissue?

 

[IPOM]

Pull throughs as well.

Not sure what those are...

 

[IPOM]

You guys are posting some great stuff and really helping to educate me. I wish I could rep more, but I have to spread it around first.