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Advise please

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    Advise please


    I will be starting a new routine soon and I'm running into a problem. I'm sorting out my eating times and I work out from 0500 to 0600. I get up at 0400 to make it to the gym on time so I'm trying to figure out when to eat my first meal. I don't want to conflict with 1st meal to pre work out to post work out to post meal to meal 3. Any advice??? Thanks

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    First meal should always be first thing in the morning, carb+protein, especially when exercising shortly after.
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Working out fasted is perfectly fine. I am up at 3:00AM and at the gym by 4:00AM. Consume post workout shake then eat a well balanced whole food meal within the next 1 to 2 hours.
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    If you want to spare muscle breakdown then don't exercise fasted, especially in the morning when you're completely fasted. Carbs are needed for energy and to prevent the body from breaking down aminos (muscle) for energy.
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    If he is eating properly 6 to 8 hours is not going to cause muscle breakdown.
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    I disagree. So does the research on it
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    OK...
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    This is more aimed at cardio than lifting, but it applies for both since intense lifting is a cardio of sorts...have a read

    http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...-fasted-cardio
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    I have seen the study. Yes. It is irrelevant to lifting but a specific article targeted at fat loss fasted verse non fasted.

    Finally, the effect of fasting on energy levels during exercise ultimately has an effect on fat burning. Training early in the morning on an empty stomach makes it very difficult for an individual to train at even a moderate level of intensity. Attempting to engage in a HIIT style routine in a hypoglycemic state almost certainly will impair performance (33). Studies show that a pre-exercise meal allows an individual to train more intensely compared with exercise while fasting (25). The net result is that a greater number of calories are burned both during and after physicalactivity,heightening fat loss.

    In conclusion, the literature does not support the efficacy of training early in the morning on an empty stomach as a tactic to reduce body fat. At best, the net effect on fat loss associated with such an approach will be no better than training after meal consumption, and quite possibly, it would produce inferior results. Moreover, given that training with depleted glycogen levels has been shown to increase proteolysis, the strategy has potential detrimental effects for those concerned with muscle strength and hypertrophy.
    I stand on my first point that in no way is 6 to 8 hours going to cause muscle breakdown nor will it cause a "hypoglycemic state" if the individual is eating properly.
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    Look at the last two lines that you quoted....in 6-8 hours protein synthesis will pretty much be over and blood sugar will definitely be low. I guess you really can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink...so do whatever you want. I will not advise fasted exercise nor will I perform it myself.
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Moreover, given that training with depleted glycogen levels has been shown to increase proteolysis, the strategy has potential detrimental effects for those concerned with muscle strength and hypertrophy.

    I can read. Why must you now move to the posture of abstinence.

    I am regularly consuming a well balance diet throughout my day and in 6 to 8 hours without a meal, while I am sleeping in my bed, what will have caused me to have depleted my glycogen levels?
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    What do you think your body is running on all night.....of course it won't all be burned but some will, and blood sugar will be depleted. Sure you can lift without having a meal before, in the morning. But is it optimal? I believe it is not, and do not see the advantage of lifting fasted. Also, for my first show I ate too few carbs and did fasted cardio. I lost a lot of strength and size but did get lean. Last year for my shows I did zero fasted exercise of any sort and came in leaner, but 8 lbs heavier. This is general of course, as there are other factors, but it definitely helped. Again, it's up to you
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firmanator View Post
    What do you think your body is running on all night.....of course it won't all be burned but some will, and blood sugar will be depleted. Sure you can lift without having a meal before, in the morning. But is it optimal? I believe it is not, and do not see the advantage of lifting fasted.
    Depending on your phenotype it can be optimal. Anecdotaly it has been for me for years. It has never hindered 30-40 mins of resistance training by not eating for 6 hours before hand.
    Also, for my first show I ate too few carbs and did fasted cardio. I lost a lot of strength and size but did get lean. Last year for my shows I did zero fasted exercise of any sort and came in leaner, but 8 lbs heavier.
    You are using a scenario that is at the extreme and we are not talking about carb depletion. No one ever said anything about carb depletion. You have. I have multiple times stated a well balance meal.
    This is general of course, as there are other factors, but it definitely helped.
    No it is not general. You are referring to the advance condition of a highly trained competition ready athlete who has once failed at carb depletion training for a competition and has now generalized it to every situation. No it is not general.

    The OP is simply "starting a new routine."
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    Haha, ok well I'm done since I've said what I wanted to say. If you think it works for you then keep doin what youre doin
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firmanator View Post
    Haha, ok well I'm done since I've said what I wanted to say. If you think it works for you then keep doin what youre doin
    HAHA?

    You are a piece of work.
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    Yup can't help but laugh, I'm sorry
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Condescending too?

    What is you point kid?
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    Ha thanks for the inputs. I guess my biggest concern is intaking to much all within 3 hours of each other including meal 1, pre and post supplements, and a meal directly following that.
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    Youre calling me kid, but im condescending just because i find all this humorous....oh well
    Op, Why not combine meal 1 with pre supps, and/or shrink meal sizes/caloric amounts.
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Sounds Like a plan right there. I've always taken pre on empty so I hope my stomach will not turn durning more intense exercises.
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    And if you do decide not to have an actual meal, I'd at least have some bcaas before lifting. Good luck man
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    If you're worried about your stomach, you might try just having a fruit beforehand for a bit of carbs, instead of a full meal
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    Thanks again for the responses guys
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firmanator View Post
    Youre calling me kid, but im condescending just because i find all this humorous....oh well
    I called you kid after you went "haha" and behaved like a condescending KID.

    What is humorous is that you think you have it all figured out and that everyone needs to fall into your presumptive and generalized theories otherwise they are wrong and ineffective. Grow up, kid.
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    No prob Preston. Take it easy
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    @ Firminator... thousands of people (including myself) follow leangains IF diet in which in many cases training is done fasted. In some cases, this fasted training is followed by nothing more than BCAA's for hours until the fast is broken. Not only have great results been acheived, but there is alot of science which studies intermittent fasting (especially in muslims during Ramadan) and 90% of RCTs, prospective and obserational studies report increased fat oxidation without detriment to LBM with regular fasted training. Get on Medline or Cochrane and do some research. Its very easy to learn popular dieting/training principles, backed with decent science, and then fall into the routine of believing this particular method is the be all end all. Science changes, and the body is able to respond to many different environmental changes.

    personally, i find training fasted with some BCAA's ( about 10g) pre and post workout works great. I am much more focused and concentrated whilst training fasted then I am training after a meal.

    Cheers,
    nate
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    Yup ive heard of that before and I appreciate you bringing actual research info into this. I do Know there are different ways of doing things. You did say you take bcaas preworkout though which I do recommend if you train fasted. I still don't see fasted training as being better than nonfasted due to having less energy. I have a bodybuilding standpoint tho, and its quite hard to diet/train to lose fat and preserve muscle at the same time. It's easier to just do one or the other. But as I said, if it works for you go for it.
    My goal as a natural bodybuilder is to improve constantly, and win my pro card, while making an increasing amount of people doubt that I'm natural ;)
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    ^ Summarized well here
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