Originally Posted by Grunt76

Just started my cut this morning. 8 weeks of starving madness.

what is your cut layout?

youch, GL brother. Cant wait to see the end result

coke is great on a cut! lol.

Originally Posted by pudzian2

what is your cut layout?

My diet will be pretty strict. Here is more or less what I intend, wiht some variations and tweaking:

MEAL 1
4-6 eggs
2 toasts

MEAL 2
45g milk & egg protein in water
1.5 cup cereal

MEAL 3
Half a can of baked beans in tomato sauce
2 cans of tuna

MEAL 4
High GI postworkout drink on weight-training days

MEAL 5
Half a small chicken
Steamed broccoli

MEAL 6
45g milk & egg protein in water

TOTALS
Calories 2613
Fat (g) 58
Carbs (g) 181
Protein (g) 357

Early-morning cardio will be 45 minutes on elliptical or rower, followed by abs. Weight training will be 3 days a week HST-style and the 2 other days I will do more cardio. Weekends are devoid of any "exercise" although 12h of hard dancing throughout the night can be thought of as cardio...

Estimated calorie expenditure without the fatburners' effect is estimated to be about 4000 calories. Fatburners will increase this number significantly.

Here is the accompanying cycle

30mg Pheraplex ED for the first 2 weeks
1750mg testosterone enanthate / wk
1750mg boldenone undecylenate / wk
IGF-1 LR3, 50-80mcg postworkout
Clenbuterol 3 weeks + 2 weeks off + 3 more weeks
T3 100mcg ED
Ketotifen fumarate, 0.5-1.0mg ED

Bottom line, starvation and anabolics. I foresee 20lbs of pure fat melted off by the end of week 3.

Thoughts?

haha toast and cereal.. what a nerd.

You sure you don't have enough Test and Bold? christ.

My friend, I bet you 300 canadian dollars that you can get the same results with a fraction of that AAS dose. I care about you.

I also think Phera coupled with Clen is asking for some Left ventricle hypertrophy.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

haha toast and cereal.. what a nerd.

You sure you don't have enough Test and Bold? christ.

My friend, I bet you 300 canadian dollars that you can get the same results with a fraction of that anabolic steroids dose. I care about you.

I also think Phera coupled with Clen is asking for some Left ventricle hypertrophy.

Well, phera never did anything at all to my BP bro, so on that front I'm OK. As for the AAS, yes, it is overkill, although much higher doses have been run without adverse effects. And I'd rather overkill than lose some of that recently acquired LBM. It's not like test & eq are expensive or anything... I'll be watching my BP... That *IS* your main concern is it not?

BP and cardiac hypertrophy. Your resting heart rate will be elevated continuously, even with just T3, (not to mention infamous clenbuterol) add A.A.S. and you can thicken the walls of your left ventricle, compromising the efficiency of your heart. Couple that with Poutine and you got yourself a problem.

IMO: At 240lbs and a bf% ___?
do you think your calories are too low?. Even with that many AAS I think that is unhealthy to drop to such a deficit so fast. Have you considered gradually dropping the calories or using carb cycling. I would imagine that carb cycling along with AAS and may be 750 caloric deficit per day (500 from food, 250 from cardio) would do the trick in a much healthier fashion. Also, when in starvation mode with so few calories and bold undec dont you think the hunger pangs from the bold are going to drive you nuts?

what is the reason you choose testosterone (and such a high dose I might add) over using LESS total AAS but using a compound like tren(known to preserve or even add LBM in a caloric deficit and has pronounced fat loss effects-whether or not the last part of that statement can be scientifically proven)?

I hope you dont take offense to my suggestions. I just care about a bro's health ya kno? I think UBI is right about the PP and the clen.....I have found albuterol to be a good replacement for clen. seems to work just as well for me and the energy is much cleaner.

why no typical cutters in that cycle as far as the oral and injectables? No AI for the bloat?

Originally Posted by pistonpump

why no typical cutters in that cycle as far as the oral and injectables? No AI for the bloat?

Albuterol didn't do anything for me.

AI - yeah 2.5mg letro ED

And cutters, you mean hardeners like tren, winny? Well, to be honest, I really don't think these hormones do much at all for actually CUTTING. They do make you harder, yes. But IMO that is more psychological and transient than the actual cutting that you are doing.

I can't stand winny. My liver doesn't like it. I am saving tren for a lean bulk later on. I don't have access to primo ATM but I plan on running it long and hard on my upcoming recomp. Masteron I am (obviously?) saving for contest prep along with var. Test is my base and then EQ is a good anabolic for cutting. It doesn't make me hungrier. Not that it would change anything, I eat what I eat and that's that. Willpower is not a question for me. I do what is needed.

It seems like a good idea to me to cut sharply at this point in order to go into a recomp mode for a few months before going into actual contest preparation. If I cut more gently, I have no time for tweaking my physique by adding to the lagging bodyparts. And right now I am too blurry to see exactly where I stand. Plus, I need some degree of definition in order to begin learning and practicing posing.

So it's more a precontes strategy than simply trying to look good for the spring/summer kind of deal...

Originally Posted by Grunt76

Albuterol didn't do anything for me.

AI - yeah 2.5mg letro ED

And cutters, you mean hardeners like tren, winny? Well, to be honest, I really don't think these hormones do much at all for actually CUTTING. They do make you harder, yes. But IMO that is more psychological and transient than the actual cutting that you are doing.

I can't stand winny. My liver doesn't like it. I am saving tren for a lean bulk later on. I don't have access to primo ATM but I plan on running it long and hard on my upcoming recomp. Masteron I am (obviously?) saving for contest prep along with var. Test is my base and then EQ is a good anabolic for cutting. It doesn't make me hungrier. Not that it would change anything, I eat what I eat and that's that. Willpower is not a question for me. I do what is needed.

It seems like a good idea to me to cut sharply at this point in order to go into a recomp mode for a few months before going into actual contest preparation. If I cut more gently, I have no time for tweaking my physique by adding to the lagging bodyparts. And right now I am too blurry to see exactly where I stand. Plus, I need some degree of definition in order to begin learning and practicing posing.

So it's more a precontes strategy than simply trying to look good for the spring/summer kind of deal...

Oh I fully understand where you are coming from with the precontest thing. I just wasnt aware of your specific time-fames. Well everyone reacts differently to different compounds. I say that if you have confidence in your plan, then I wish you luck and Im sure you will succeed. You are dedicated and like you said I do not doubt your will power.

goodluck my freind. keep us up to date

Now you guys got me thinking about my cycle and I think I should do an all-test cut. 3500mg all the way through.

Originally Posted by Grunt76

Now you guys got me thinking about my cycle and I think I should do an all-test cut. 3500mg all the way through.

i would just choose between the phera and clen for starters. And since cutting I would opt for clen over the phera... I think both combined may just be too risky.

okay, yeah i meant hardeners or the traditional steroids that are used with cuts.

I guess you are saving the goods for later, masteron and var, i like the sound of that. I dont know why you save the tren tho?...why not use with the masteron and var before contest?

Originally Posted by pistonpump

okay, yeah i meant hardeners or the traditional steroids that are used with cuts.

I guess you are saving the goods for later, masteron and var, i like the sound of that. I dont know why you save the tren tho?...why not use with the masteron and var before contest?

I probably will. I won't stay on tren long though, and I plan on recomping for a good 6 months leading up to the November contest. Since tren is the king of recomp drugs, along with primo, I intend on running high dose primo and doing at least a couple runs with tren in there. With slightly above-maintenance calories and a few early-morning cardio sessions a week, I foresee greatness.

3500mg test should provide a very good thermogenic, fat-burning effect.

Originally Posted by pudzian2

i would just choose between the phera and clen for starters. And since cutting I would opt for clen over the phera... I think both combined may just be too risky.

What do you mean risky? Phera does nothing to my blood pressure.

Originally Posted by Grunt76

3500mg test should provide a very good thermogenic, fat-burning effect.

as long as the estrogen conversion is in check. thats alot of aromatizing going on!!!

i was staring at your nips i notice you have no signs of gyno or puffiness. Pretty ****ing amazing considering the dosages you take and prior use! Have you always preferred AI on cycle over SERM and what compound?

Originally Posted by pistonpump

i was staring at your nips i notice you have no signs of gyno or puffiness. Pretty ****ing amazing considering the dosages you take and prior use! Have you always preferred AI on cycle over SERM and what compound?

Well for a long time I thought I had gyno, but it turns out I just get fat there more than elsewhere. Anyway, with that going on, I have always been paranoid about gyno and have always used AI's. I probably overuse them. That high dose of letro will up in a heartbeat the moment I see some water.

Up to about 2g test, I use arimidex but above that I prefer letrozole.

Grunt76-


You mentioned that you trained natural for 15 years. Does this mean that you did not use pro-hormones during this time ? Just curious. Also too what does 'Grunt76' stand for ?

Originally Posted by Grunt76

Well for a long time I thought I had gyno, but it turns out I just get fat there more than elsewhere. Anyway, with that going on, I have always been paranoid about gyno and have always used AI's. I probably overuse them. That high dose of letro will up in a heartbeat the moment I see some water.

Up to about 2g test, I use arimidex but above that I prefer letrozole.

what doses of arimidex have you used successfully in preventing estro sides whit 1+g test?

and like pp said, you def prefer an AI on cycle over a SERM?

what i meant by risky is that we can never know everything about drug interactions. clen and phera are known to have a greater incidence of left v hypertrophy, when combined AND using alot of TEST. one should at least acknowledge the possibility of a risk. IMO....

Originally Posted by Grunt76

What do you mean risky? Phera does nothing to my blood pressure.

its not so much a BP issue but there are medical studies showing that DMT can thicken the wall of the hear since it can bind to receptors in the heart and build up muscle there too. Im guesing the reason they are worried is cause clen can do it too?

I dunno I think as long as your dose is reasonable and not stretched out too long youll be ok, just dont go to crazy with either and monitor your heart rate moreso then your BP. with a smallrt Left ventricle it will cause a spike in heart rate since it will need to pump more to move the required amount of blood for your body.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about regarding the left ventricle.

Grunt is a smartie pants, so I'm sure he's good, I just know that I like to order a lot more food at a table than I would normally be willing to eat.

I still bet you 300 canadian dollars that you can achieve the same comparative results with a SMALL fraction of the dose and also eliminating a few compounds.

When I used to dabble, I had tried ridiculous doses, and very long durations. The ridiculous doses only upped the sides, not the gains. The longer durations only upped the suppression, (albeit trained my body to handle the weight and keep it after PCT).

I don't really talk about AAS anymore due to the simple fact I've turned a new leaf, and to be honest am feeling rusty. I also feel that a great majority of members here are young developing trainees and it is very easy to sway them to the exogenous side of the fence, which in my mind is not conducive to learning how to train and eat properly.

Now, I know you know how to do that, and I know you are experienced, but I still say my bet is on the table, you can achieve great results with MUCH less.

I'll get off my soapbox for now, but the main concern I had was your pretty pretty little Quebecois heart.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Yeah, that's what I was talking about regarding the left ventricle.

Grunt is a smartie pants, so I'm sure he's good, I just know that I like to order a lot more food at a table than I would normally be willing to eat.

I still bet you 300 canadian dollars that you can achieve the same comparative results with a SMALL fraction of the dose and also eliminating a few compounds.

When I used to dabble, I had tried ridiculous doses, and very long durations. The ridiculous doses only upped the sides, not the gains. The longer durations only upped the suppression, (albeit trained my body to handle the weight and keep it after post cycle therapy).

I don't really talk about anabolic steroids anymore due to the simple fact I've turned a new leaf, and to be honest am feeling rusty. I also feel that a great majority of members here are young developing trainees and it is very easy to sway them to the exogenous side of the fence, which in my mind is not conducive to learning how to train and eat properly.

Now, I know you know how to do that, and I know you are experienced, but I still say my bet is on the table, you can achieve great results with MUCH less.

I'll get off my soapbox for now, but the main concern I had was your pretty pretty little Quebecois heart.

blah blah blah blah who's the old man? lol

I agree with Ubi. Less is usually more. I think Letro should be dosed 1.25mg EOD for management. I think the T3 and Clen are better saved especially considering there'll already be a 750kcal deficit. No need to up the metabolism which will retroactively increase the deficit.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Yeah, that's what I was talking about regarding the left ventricle.

Grunt is a smartie pants, so I'm sure he's good, I just know that I like to order a lot more food at a table than I would normally be willing to eat.

I still bet you 300 canadian dollars that you can achieve the same comparative results with a SMALL fraction of the dose and also eliminating a few compounds.

When I used to dabble, I had tried ridiculous doses, and very long durations. The ridiculous doses only upped the sides, not the gains. The longer durations only upped the suppression, (albeit trained my body to handle the weight and keep it after post cycle therapy).

I don't really talk about anabolic steroids anymore due to the simple fact I've turned a new leaf, and to be honest am feeling rusty. I also feel that a great majority of members here are young developing trainees and it is very easy to sway them to the exogenous side of the fence, which in my mind is not conducive to learning how to train and eat properly.

Now, I know you know how to do that, and I know you are experienced, but I still say my bet is on the table, you can achieve great results with MUCH less.

I'll get off my soapbox for now, but the main concern I had was your pretty pretty little Quebecois heart.

Turned a new leaf ? What caused that to happen ?

Originally Posted by ReaperX

Turned a new leaf ? What caused that to happen ?

You mean going Natty? Health reasons, I didn't like sweating and breathing heavily. I prefer to be agile like a sexy cat of the night, in a chocolate trampoline city. Plus it doesn't work with my hobbies, I train BJJ/ some MMA and plan on competing.

Thank you guys for chiming in.

Ubi "use to dabble but does not anymore", he's 30. And feeling what, rusty?

I'm 40 and just getting started with AAS.

You guys are getting me to think that because my heart beat is pretty rapid to begin with, and has always been, as it runs in the family, my left ventricle is probably already thick or small, which means the same thing. Hm... OK...

I'll admit, I am playing with super high doses out of the fact that I don't get sides, almost none at all, and get my gear really cheap. I mean *REALLY* cheap. That makes the otherwise not-so-rich me able to throw around cycling ideas with 2g primo 1g tren and 2g var in there...

But that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I'll go cautious.

1750mg test / week. I mean, those are new gains I'm trying to protect through a deep calorie deficit...

Now, because you THINK I'm able to achieve similar results with a lot less, doesn't mean you're right. But what adjustments would you suggest? Dropping clen altogether?

Originally Posted by Grunt76

I'll go cautious.

1750mg test / week. I mean, those are new gains I'm trying to protect through a deep calorie deficit...

Now, because you THINK I'm able to achieve similar results with a lot less, doesn't mean you're right. But what adjustments would you suggest? Dropping clen altogether?

You make a good point about consolidating and maintaining gains. Personally, I think your Test/Bold dosage is probably more than suffice to keep you anabolic despite kcal deficit. I'd drop the clen while taking Test and Bold. I'd also drop your letro to 1.25 EOD, your looking for control/prevention not erradication of estrogen. You can always increase as needed.

Originally Posted by jonny21

You make a good point about consolidating and maintaining gains. Personally, I think your Test/Bold dosage is probably more than suffice to keep you anabolic despite kcal deficit. I'd drop the clen while taking Test and Bold. I'd also drop your letro to 1.25 EOD, your looking for control/prevention not erradication of estrogen. You can always increase as needed.

personally with that kind of caloric deficit and dosages like j21 said, I dont think you NEED clen OR phera. I mean like you said grunt it doesnt mean it will work as well without them, but you'll just have to weigh the POSSIBLE con's of their use vs. their supposed benefit.

grunt you need to up your calories bud. If you only take in that many calories you may loose some muscle with the T3 and Clen. T3 will shed you like crazy