precontest prep... first comp...

madds87

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low carb? or carb cycling?

can anyone send me a link on what to do exactly.... with water, salt, and what days to cheat, when to start increasing carbs..... all new to me... and I have been reading both ways and im not sure....
 
JRob23

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For starters...don't think you can "cheat". When you are damn lean and deep into your diet is when you should start thinking of incorporating a "structured refeed". This could be (rough example) something like doubling the amount of carbs you're running for the day or just doubling the post wo meal with clean carbs!

Dont worry about water/salt etc for your first show. Just keep drinking lots of water for now and keep salt just as it's been, you'll be fine.

Increase carbs? If anything you would be decreasing carbs most likely as the diet progresses.
 
fueledpassion

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9% 175lbs

low carb? or carb cycling?

can anyone send me a link on what to do exactly.... with water, salt, and what days to cheat, when to start increasing carbs..... all new to me... and I have been reading both ways and im not sure....
Noobs lower their carbs. I suggest u go to Parillo.com and read up on his free articles on how to. So much bad info floating around on this board about cutting.

You want to keep carbs high but super clean which means all complex carbs and fibrous carbs too. Protein levels should remain typical at 1-1.5g per lb of mass. Each meal u want to eat fiber and protein with each carb. Keep fats as low as possible - This is the key to getting lean as well as timing of exercise.

Purchase MCT oil to give u the extra calories u need to function and maintain ALL of your hard earned muscle.

Remember carbs and protein are muscle sparing - ESPECIALLY carbs. Keep em high and fat low. Cardio at 45min daily.

One month out you need to remove nearly all starchy carbs from ur diet and go almost exclusively to fibrous carbs. When u get to this point you'll need the MCT oil to keep ur muscle from eating itself since u wont have enough carbs to give u instant energy. The point of reducing the carbs SOME is to reduce glucose levels for more hours throughout the day.

Ur body will draw from its fat reserves when ur glucose is low or empty. You have two places for glucose, the muscle and the liver. Once they run out u start feeding off fats for low intensity exercise and amin acids for high intensity stuff which is why most guys look pathetic when they cut!

So u need to time ur cardio for depleted glycogen moments like first thing AM or post-workout.

For carb-loading pre-comp. 5 days out u can load back up on long-chain sugars like oatmeal, sweet potatoes, etc to fill the glycogen stores up again.

For water-flushing just drink lots of water right up to the evening before comp and cut water intake by 1/2 the normal amount that u normally drink. Your body will keep processing water like normal for a few hours after and use up ur water storage overnight. Drink water normally day of the show.
 
madds87

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I checked the website... I have to buy the stuff for nutrition diet
 
madds87

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hahahaha..... yall are terrible on advice.... lol..... nvm....
 
jdg76

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Lots of different info out there. I personally don't like lowering my fats that much. Low fats=low test. And I started cutting my water back 2 days prior to my show. I also carb depleted the last week and carbed up a few days prior.

So as you can see everyone will have different suggestions as what to do. You will just have to take what you feel comfortable with and adjust each time you compete. Very few can time their diet were they peak exactly when they need to.






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madds87

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Yeah it's not exact man, I'm struggling right now bc my coach is 3,000 miles away. Last time he helped me we saw each other almost daily & it was almost 6.5 yrs ago and my body has changed.

Face to face with someone who has experience is best, imo
yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
 
jdg76

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yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
I'm far from knowing exacts on diet, but yes I would recommend splitting it up. It will deffinately help with your workouts too to get some carbs in you pre w/o.











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yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
I'd say 200 is a good start, ~1gr/lb of body weight. I'd split up a little more than that, just my opinion. 2 low GI meals preworkout then the 100 after, if your handle carbs well. I do not, I've got to split mine up little by little. Im more of a 35breakfast, 35 lunch, 50pre & 75post kinda guy
 
madds87

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hmmm... welll the cbl diet I follow a bcaa fast kinda like the lean gains diet.... after my bcaa 12hr fast I start to bring in protein and fats until thirty minutes before working out, then ill bring in some carbs.... post workout ill get all my carbs in. then after that back too protein and fat
 
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hmmm... welll the cbl diet I follow a bcaa fast kinda like the lean gains diet.... after my bcaa 12hr fast I start to bring in protein and fats until thirty minutes before working out, then ill bring in some carbs.... post workout ill get all my carbs in. then after that back too protein and fat
Not familiar with it, im old school man, lol. For better or worse, I'm not to up to date with the "newer" diets but if you got a handle on it, and is working? MORE POWER TO YOU! Good to hear you have things sorta figured out haha
 
3clipseGT

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Noobs lower their carbs. I suggest u go to Parillo.com and read up on his free articles on how to. So much bad info floating around on this board about cutting.

You want to keep carbs high but super clean which means all complex carbs and fibrous carbs too. Protein levels should remain typical at 1-1.5g per lb of mass. Each meal u want to eat fiber and protein with each carb. Keep fats as low as possible - This is the key to getting lean as well as timing of exercise.

Purchase MCT oil to give u the extra calories u need to function and maintain ALL of your hard earned muscle.

Remember carbs and protein are muscle sparing - ESPECIALLY carbs. Keep em high and fat low. Cardio at 45min daily.

One month out you need to remove nearly all starchy carbs from ur diet and go almost exclusively to fibrous carbs. When u get to this point you'll need the MCT oil to keep ur muscle from eating itself since u wont have enough carbs to give u instant energy. The point of reducing the carbs SOME is to reduce glucose levels for more hours throughout the day.

Ur body will draw from its fat reserves when ur glucose is low or empty. You have two places for glucose, the muscle and the liver. Once they run out u start feeding off fats for low intensity exercise and amin acids for high intensity stuff which is why most guys look pathetic when they cut!

So u need to time ur cardio for depleted glycogen moments like first thing AM or post-workout.

For carb-loading pre-comp. 5 days out u can load back up on long-chain sugars like oatmeal, sweet potatoes, etc to fill the glycogen stores up again.

For water-flushing just drink lots of water right up to the evening before comp and cut water intake by 1/2 the normal amount that u normally drink. Your body will keep processing water like normal for a few hours after and use up ur water storage overnight. Drink water normally day of the show.
I only read a little bit here mostly the first couple paragraphs. But to say that you need to keep carbs high isnt true.
Not everyone responds to high carbs well. Also to say to keep fat low is the best way is not true either. Keeping fats to low for to long will have a negative impact on hormone levels.
He ultimately should know what works well for him and as he dives farther and farther into prep he will need to cut carbs unless he is a genetic freak or has a high metabolism.

Also starting cardio at 45 minutes from the get go is a bad idea. Start at the lowest possible effective amount of time 20-25 minutes. Then adjust from there.
 
jdg76

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Good info ^^^^











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madds87

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I only read a little bit here mostly the first couple paragraphs. But to say that you need to keep carbs high isnt true.
Not everyone responds to high carbs well. Also to say to keep fat low is the best way is not true either. Keeping fats to low for to long will have a negative impact on hormone levels.
He ultimately should know what works well for him and as he dives farther and farther into prep he will need to cut carbs unless he is a genetic freak or has a high metabolism.

Also starting cardio at 45 minutes from the get go is a bad idea. Start at the lowest possible effective amount of time 20-25 minutes. Then adjust from there.
why keep cardio low?
 
madds87

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Main reason i am doing cardio is to get my posing routine strict.... I wanna move from hard flex to pose to pose to pose, flexed whole time.... Which might be exhausting and prob impossible, might make it sloppy.... but im still wokring on my routine....
 
jdg76

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why keep cardio low?
Because like anything your body can somewhat adapt. Keep it low at first and manipulate your diet to cut BF. That way as you get closer to your show you can increase your cardio if you're weight loss slows. ;)










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3clipseGT

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why keep cardio low?
You start out with it low at the beginning of the diet. Why use all of your tricks in the bag right up front? What if you need to do 1.5 hrs of cardio at the end? If you started at 45 minutes then at the end you would be doing like 3 hrs of cardio.
 
3clipseGT

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Because like anything your body can somewhat adapt. Keep it low at first and manipulate your diet to cut BF. That way as you get closer to your show you can increase your cardio if you're weight loss slows. ;)










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Great way to explain it.
 
fueledpassion

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yeah he works out at my gym... I take off my shirt and he judges from looks and tell me where im lagging and where im gaining... hes helping me with my diet... right now im'sticking to intermittent / cbl dieting.... just lowering my carbs lower to about 200 I think... 300 isnt working.... I was thinking about splitting the carbs up instead of just after the workout. maybe 50 simple carbs before workout and 150 after? lol im not sure... what yall think?
For cutting, a 1:1.5 ratio of carbs:protein is good. So for example, 200g carbs to 300g protein per day. The rest fats (but watch out). The reason for the ratio is because you have to pay attention to your insulin to glucagon ratio which dictates how effective you will lose fat.
 
madds87

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For cutting, a 1:1.5 ratio of carbs:protein is good. So for example, 200g carbs to 300g protein per day. The rest fats (but watch out). The reason for the ratio is because you have to pay attention to your insulin to glucagon ratio which dictates how effective you will lose fat.
how do you pay attantion too my insulinto glucogen ratio?
 
madds87

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what about prohormones? I dont think ill be able to get my hands on amy injectables this late... I was thinking maybe tren... or hdrol.... epi maybe.... I bought three bottles of ketogenix from athletix... heard some great things on tightening up and hardening....
 
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what about prohormones? I dont think ill be able to get my hands on amy injectables this late... I was thinking maybe tren... or hdrol.... epi maybe.... I bought three bottles of ketogenix from athletix... heard some great things on tightening up and hardening....
Honestly, I'd do your first show natural. See how your body adapts and responds. It's a marathon, not a sprint brother. Natural products like GH or test boosters would be a good idea, but I'd stear clear of the PH/PS/AAS route. That's what I'm doing before I even think about a ph in contest prep.
 
madds87

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Honestly, I'd do your first show natural. See how your body adapts and responds. It's a marathon, not a sprint brother. Natural products like GH or test boosters would be a good idea, but I'd stear clear of the PH/PS/AAS route. That's what I'm doing before I even think about a ph in contest prep.
true man.... sounds good.... teat booster ill be getting then...
 
jdg76

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true man.... sounds good.... teat booster ill be getting then...

Yes, going by your stats, you're not doing bad at all natural. Get your first show under your belt and if you eat a lot, BUT Clean after your show you could have a good rebound and put on some good size.






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madds87

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ok. I have had some orohormone cycles... but thats it... im not all natural.... but I get what your saying... just let my body work on the fat... imma jump on an ai. licogenix. and see how that works for me. I have 8 wks worth to see how well it hardens me up..... bulk one carboxy and cissus with a multi. drink 60 g of bcaas all day in a gallon.... protein with three scoops of.metamucil. strying to keep fiber high since protein is high... along with a probiotic.... any recommendations on supplements?
 
madds87

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well I do the high fiber I my diet for the acidity of all the protein without carbs... and it helps so much...
 
fueledpassion

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how do you pay attantion too my insulinto glucogen ratio?
Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
 
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Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
I do not agree with your thinking but thats ok. Everything works differently for everyone.

Point blank the more carbs i eat the fatter ill get. My body does not work that way. Also cutting carbs will allow for lower and more stable insulin levels.
 
jdg76

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Insulin is to carbs as glucagon is to protein. There is a direct relationship b/w amounts of these two hormones and how much protein vs. carbs that you eat. So, if you want your insulin to glucagon ratio to be right, adjust your intake of carbs to protein to match that desired ratio (using grams to measure your exact amounts) Therefore, for a 1 to 1.5 ratio of insulin to glucagon (which is ideal for cutting), for every 1g of carbs you eat, have 1.5g of protein as well. Still, I would eat tons of each. If your maintenance level is 2700 calories, I'd eat 2700 calories. Again, keep the ratio right, with slow-releasing carbs as the majority of carb energy, and keep fats as low as possible. You'll keep your muscle and lose the fat assuming that you are performing low intensity cardio as mentioned earlier.

Another thing to remember is that this method suggests that the amount of calories plays a lesser role than the ratio of macro's in the calories.

Furthermore, I like to remind people that the more carbs you eat, the more carbs you burn. your body really does not prefer to store glucose into fat cells. It would rather have a steady supply of energy to metabolize and use protein to repair, maintain and build muscle cells.

For those who think it is crazy to not cut carbs:

Think of it like this - if muscle cells are the only cells that burn calories (I assume we all agree that fat cells don't require energy to sustain themselves), why would you cut carbs to lose fat? Cutting your carbs is draining a valuable resource for your muscles, not your fat. Fat gets burned off the body because the sex hormones, T3/T4 and epinephrine mobilize fats cells to be used for energy in the event that glucose isn't available or you are performing a low-intensity activity. So therefore, we need to do fat burning exercises (low-intensity, aerobic exercise) when our glucose levels are low. Those times for most people are either first thing in the morning before eating or right after a hard anaerobic training session.

I could go on for miles about the anatomy of the human metabolism but this is a stopping point for now.
My undestanding is glucagon is released when the blood glucose levels are low, i.e. fasting. So it acts antagonisticly with insulin. Can you explain how it goes hand in hand with protein? Protein, particularly whey has been shown to create an insulin response which would keep the pancreas from secreting glucagon. Also I do agree with the last poster. In order for me to lose weight I slowly drop my carbs. My body refuses to drop BF if I don't.



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fueledpassion

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You will drop weight if u cut carbs. That is true. Unless u have ample amount of calories for ur muscle, part of that weight loss is lean muscle mass. And as u lose muscle mass, ur metabolism also decreases since ur energy expenditures decrease.

If u convert ur carbs to "clean" carbs, including fiber and protein in the presence of every meal will mitigate almost all fat accumulations.

Protein doesn't cause insulin release. Sugar does, Which is present in every whey product.

Regardless of cutting or bulking, the body needs a certain amount of calories to maintain its current lean body mass. When ur macro layout has a higher amount of protein and lower amount of carbs (while not cutting calories), ur body tends to have a higher amount of glucagon in the blood stream thus leading toward a more favorable environment for cutting. The solution isnt to cut calories, but rather to avoid fat accumulation while ramping up fat burning activities.

Carbs only store up as fat cells when u eat too many carbs at once, causing a large insulin spike. Such a spike occurs when u eat refined carbs and simple carbs. If carbs are causing fat accumulation then its because ur diet isnt top notch and could use improvements.

This is why I say avoid a high fat diet and avoid refined and simple carbs that tend to be stored up as fat. Also, fructose, which is in virtually all fruits, almost exclusively stores up as fats.

This isnt theory. This is science. Everyone's body has the same processes. Some have a more sensitive hormone system than others - thisbis true. But what takes place in my body is for the most part the same as it is with urs.

Here is a link for starters - http://www.parrillo.com/sng.asp

download the link and enjoy.
 
jdg76

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Losing a small amount of muscle while cutting is inevitable. Wether you cut carbs or not.
Where do you get there is sugar in whey? Studies have been shown that whey DOES in fact cause an insulin response. Again I do not agree that you can lose only BF and keep your carbs high. You said that the more carbs you eat the more carbs it burns an to keep fats as low as possible. That is just opposite of what I have done and seen many do. If I were to up my carbs, strictly eating sweet potatos, brown rice, and oats and were to lower my fats. What would happen is my test levels would lower i.e. low fat intake, and I would start putting on BF from too many carbs. Good fats do not make you fat, simple carbs and/or to many 'good' do.
 
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Losing a small amount of muscle while cutting is inevitable. Wether you cut carbs or not.
Where do you get there is sugar in whey? Studies have been shown that whey DOES in fact cause an insulin response. Again I do not agree that you can lose only BF and keep your carbs high. You said that the more carbs you eat the more carbs it burns an to keep fats as low as possible. That is just opposite of what I have done and seen many do. If I were to up my carbs, strictly eating sweet potatos, brown rice, and oats and were to lower my fats. What would happen is my test levels would lower i.e. low fat intake, and I would start putting on BF from too many carbs. Good fats do not make you fat, simple carbs and/or to many 'good' do.
And where is your info on a few things...

1) That whey, a protein, causes insulin release? (The sugars from lactose and added sweeteners in the whey mix will cause the insulin response, not protein. Where are the studies?

2) That low fats cause low test levels...? And if there is a connection here, is it a low enough drop to merit NOT eating a low-fat diet? And also, for those on PH's and steroids, this point is very, very moot.

3) That (within reason) a healthy amount of slow releasing carbs will cause fat gain, rather than speeding up the metabolism? Reference please.

I'm tired of bro science/pseudo science. It doesn't work. Cutting calories below maintenance levels cause muscle loss in equal amounts to fat loss, which in turn slows down the metabolism. So as you lose mass, to keep seeing weight loss you must continue to cut more and more calories. And as you cut calories, the more muscle you lose..and so it goes. Skinny and weak.

Now we could look at how Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman and others do it. Which is eat more carbs (and I mean Clean carbs), high proteins, extremely high fiber content and low fats). They start packing on muscle, which in turn demands more calories. And as they eat more calories they continue to pack on muscle which continues to ramp up the metabolism. It's the exact opposite of the approach that people on these boards do. Such approach is why most aren't going to be pro bodybuilders at any level - not because of steroids and GH use. They already use those on these boards.

Here is some reference on my behalf:

PDF Complete Special Edition_2012-07-27_18-05-01.png
 
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Now we could look at how Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman and others do it. Which is eat more carbs (and I mean Clean carbs), high proteins, extremely high fiber content and low fats). They start packing on muscle, which in turn demands more calories. And as they eat more calories they continue to pack on muscle which continues to ramp up the metabolism. It's the exact opposite of the approach that people on these boards do. Such approach is why most aren't going to be pro bodybuilders at any level - not because of steroids and GH use. They already use those on these boards.
Using IFBB pros as examples (and great ones at that) is a terrible example in my opinion. Not saying you're wrong, just saying bad examples....

I am really enjoying this debate however.......
 
madds87

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me too... but im not willing to try and increase my carb intake right now lol
 
jdg76

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It's a long read but you'll get the point.

1.By Jerry Brainum

Milk protein consists of two primary proteins: casein and whey, with casein accounting for 80 percent and whey 20 percent. In recent years studies have shown that both proteins have varying uptake rates in the body. Whey digests rapidly, reaches peak blood uptake in about 90 minutes,and then rapidly declines. In contrast, casein curdles In the stomach,leading to an extended release of amino acids lasting for up to seven hours.

Based on those findings, scientists have suggested that whey protein is superior to casein for purposes of stimulating muscle protein synthesis. The reason is that the high essential amino-acid content of whey, including branched-chain amino acids, spurs muscle protein synthesis with one particular BCAA, leucine, perhaps the most important player of all in relation to muscle protein synthesis. Scientists also suggest that casein, because of its relatively slow release of essential amino acids, is better than whey for generating an extended anticatabolic effect. Since muscle growth is based on a balance between increased protein synthesis and rejoiced catabolism, it would appear that whey and casein provide the perfect synergistic combination for helping build muscle when combined with weight training.

One problem with studies that originally revealed the properties of casein and whey was that they measured whole-body protein synthesis, which differs from muscle protein synthesis specifically. Would the findings about casein and whey be confirmed if the focus was only on muscle protein synthesis? That was the major focus of a new study.1 Seventeen healthy young men, average age 28, were randomly chosen to participate in either of two protein trials or in a control group that didn't take any supplemental protein. Immediately after a weight workout, the men in the protein groups drank a whey or casein drink at a dose of gram per kilogram of body mass. The controls got a calorie-free drink. To measure amino behavior and rate of muscle protein synthesis, researchers tagged leucine and the proteins with radioactive tracers.

The primary finding was that both whey and casein stimulated about the same level of muscle protein synthesis over a one-to six-hour period. Whey, however, did it more rapidly, a result that confirmed previous studies. Casein showed a more moderate but prolonged increase in muscle protein synthesis. Measures of downstream muscle-protein-synthesis signals revealed similar responses to the two proteins, except for one factor that responded more strongly to whey.

The type of experimental casein used made a difference. This study used calcium caseinate; another form, micellar casein, produces a more prolonged release of amino acids. One reason is that the micellar form retains certain peptides, which are short chains of amino acids, that help partition the release of amino acids over an extended
time.

'Taken together," the authors note, "it could be argued that the combination of whey and casein would be an optimal choice post exercise, as whey stimulates the protein synthesis machinery with its high digestibility and consequently high peak concentrations of insulin and amino acids, including a high proportion of leucine in its composition. Casein provides amino acids for a prolonged time, fulfilling the amino acid need for the increased protein synthesis machinery." They also confirm that whereas whey is the protein of choice immediately after a workout, the ideal supplement would contain a 50/50 blend of casein and whey.

While leucine is considered a key amino acid in muscle protein synthesis, the authors note that adding leucine to a postworkout protein-and-carb combo doesn't extend the effects in subjects of any age. It does, however, appear to uptick whole-body protein synthesis, which, as noted above, doesn't directly translate to increased muscle protein synthesis. Additional leucine does increase muscle protein synthesis in older people-but only under resting, not post exercise conditions.

All this suggests that you don't need supplemental leucine and probably not branched-chain amino acids if you use a supplement that contains both whey and casein, preferably micellar casein. Any excess leucine will simply be oxidized in the liver and not used to synthesize muscle protein. One interesting effect observed in the new study was that the cheaper form of casein, calcium caseinate, brings on an insulin release, while micellar casein does not. That's moot if you use a whey-and-casein combo because whey produces a pronounced insulin release. In the presence of a high blood count of amino acids, insulin leads to muscle protein synthesis, but otherwise it's more involved in keeping muscle from breaking down. The study reported here measured muscle protein synthesis only, not anticatabolic activity, but found that after about six hours muscle protein synthesis was similar for both whey and casein, with whey being better than casein in that respect.

Speaking of leucine, a few more newly published studies have found some interesting effects related to it and other amino acids. One study compared plasma leucine in men and women following sprinting.2 In some respects sprinting is similar to high intensity weight training because both involve high-intensity activity followed by brief rests. Men produce more ammonia than women after either type of exercise. One reason is that ammonia is produced as waste product of the metabolism of adenosine triphosphate, the immediate energy source for muscle contraction, and men have more muscle and ATP than women. They also have more type 2 muscle fibers, making for larger muscles, and ammonia is produced mainly in type 2 muscle fibers.

Women produce less ammonia than men during exercise for another reason. It turns out that after high-intensity exercise, excess ammonia is taken up in fat tissue, where it is buffered and converted into glutamine. Since women usually have more fat tissue than men, more ammonia buffering goes on in their bodies after exercise. Meanwhile, men experience twice the decrease of plasma leucine than women after exercise.

The significance is that the drop in blood or plasma leucine directly correlates to blood ammonia, and because women produce less ammonia, their plasma leucine drops less after exercise. Estrogen comes into the picture as well; when men are given estrogen, they show decreased leucine oxidation after exercise. The higher leucine counts in women after sprinting has implications for muscle growth, since only women show increased mass after sprinting exercise alone. That's based on the higher leucine retention in women than men after that activity.

References


1 Reitelseder, S" et ai, (2011), Whey and casein labeled with L[1-13CJ leucine and muscle protein synthesis: Effect of resistance exercise and protein ingestion, Am J Physiol Endoerinol Metabol, 300(1 ):E231-42,
2 Esbjornsson, M" et al. (2010), Reduction in plasma leucine after sprint exercise is greater in males than In females, Seand J Med Sei Sports, In press,
 
jdg76

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Low fat and test levels

Section: malegrams Registered Trademarkhealthwatch
Unfortunately, shedding fat may also mean a drop in your manliest hormone
Lowering your fat intake is generally a good thing. It helps you lose the love handles, corral the cholesterol levels and win knowing glances from those women in Bally's commercials. But if you want to build more strength and muscle mass, you may want to keep just a little lard in your diet. Researchers have found that extremely low-fat diets can reduce muscle-friendly testosterone--almost to preadolescent levels! Penn State researchers monitored the diets and hormone levels of a group of resistance trainers for 17 days. "The subjects with the lowest fat intake had the lowest testosterone levels," says researcher Jeff Volek, M.S., R.D.
How low is low? "You start seeing real changes when the fat intake drops to about 10 percent," he says. It's worse if you're overtraining, because you're already sapping your testosterone levels. Adopt a draconian no-fat diet and you compound the problem. This can ultimately hamper your immune system, endurance capacity and ability to build muscle. Eat healthfully, but try to keep your fat levels between 20 and 30 percent of your diet, says Volek.
~~~~~~~~
EDITED BY RON GERACI AND DUANE SWIERCZYNSKI
 
jdg76

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I'll pull up a few more later. And as stated above neither YOU or I am even close to being in shape as Cutler, Coleman or any one else in that stage of bodybuilding. You can not use them as examples.
 
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J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Jun;90(6):3550-9. Epub 2005 Mar 1.
[h=1]Low-fat high-fiber diet decreased serum and urine androgens in men.[/h]Wang C, Catlin DH, Starcevic B, Heber D, Ambler C, Berman N, Lucas G, Leung A, Schramm K, Lee PW, Hull L, Swerdloff RS.
[h=3]Source[/h]Department of Medicine and Pediatrics and the General Clinical Research Center, Harbor-University of California at Los Angeles Medical Center and Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute, Torrance, California 90509, USA. [email protected]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]To validate our hypothesis that reduction in dietary fat may result in changes in androgen metabolism, 39 middle-aged, white, healthy men (50-60 yr of age) were studied while they were consuming their usual high-fat, low-fiber diet and after 8 wk modulation to an isocaloric low-fat, high-fiber diet. Mean body weight decreased by 1 kg, whereas total caloric intake, energy expenditure, and activity index were not changed. After diet modulation, mean serum testosterone (T) concentration fell (P < 0.0001), accompanied by small but significant decreases in serum free T (P = 0.0045), 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (P = 0.0053), and adrenal androgens (androstendione, P = 0.0135; dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, P = 0.0011). Serum estradiol and SHBG showed smaller decreases. Parallel decreases in urinary excretion of some testicular and adrenal androgens were demonstrated. Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed, and production rates for T showed a downward trend while on low-fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgen levels without changing the clearance.
 
JudoJosh

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I dont even know where to start in this thread
 
fueledpassion

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Regarding protein debate:

I agree that whey protein causes muscle protein synthesis, but that isn't what insulin is or does. As it says in the simple explanation on wikipedia -

Insulin
is a hormone, produced by the pancreas, which is central to regulating carbohydrate and fat metabolism in the body. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen inside these tissues.

Insulin stops the use of fat as an energy source by inhibiting the release of glucagon. With the exception of the metabolic disorder diabetes mellitus and metabolic syndrome, insulin is provided within the body in a constant proportion to remove excess glucose from the blood, which otherwise would be toxic. When blood glucose levels fall below a certain level, the body begins to use stored sugar as an energy source through glycogenolysis, which breaks down the glycogen stored in the liver and muscles into glucose, which can then be utilized as an energy source. (aka amino acids stored in the muscle cells) As a central metabolic control mechanism, its status is also used as a control signal to other body systems (such as amino acid uptake by body cells). In addition, it has several other anabolic effects throughout the body.

There is not evidence that protein, all by itself, causes insulin release. It just doesn't. Glucose does.
 
jdg76

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I'm on my phone so this will be short. But you seriuosly are going to use a wikepedia reference? :laugh2:
 

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