Perform Kinetics Review Spot!!!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Jebrook View Post
    Taste:5/5
    For me this was perfect. I had the Wildberry flavor. It actually tastes more like a tart or sour cherry IMO. Loved it. Was worried such a strong tartness would irritate the stomach but no issues thus far.
    Profile: 5/5
    Awesome comprehensive formula. Love the addition of Theacrine. My first time using it. Very complete formula and solid dosages of the ingredients.
    Results:5/5
    Amazing focus and energy. I work night shifts. My first dose was taken at 3 p.m. After being awake for 19 hours. It was leg day. I killed it! Quick hard hitting energy that leveled off and kept me moving throughout the rest of my 32 hour day. Also helped with the anxiety I normally experience on my long days. Pumps were pretty sic as well. For me the stim and focus was top notch.
    Overall: 5/5 I haven't checked the pricing as this was a promo but this is a great all around pwo. Would definitely buy this again if the price is reasonable. Outstanding mood, focus, and energy. Great pumps. Very good first product from @ATP Nutrition. Thanks again for the opportunity to try this!
    Fantastic!!!! Keep killin it man. We appreciate all of the honest reviews you guys are posting! Happy new year - be on the lookout for some more awesome supps from ATP in 2016!

    Also, I've started a posting series called Speedy Science with hbspeed88. I'll be breaking down the science of different compounds featured in some of our products, as well as some others. My first one is on Rhodiola Rosea, an ingredient featured in Perform Kinetics check it out!

  2. Overall 4.5/5


    ATP Perform Kinetics review


    Big shout out to the peeps at ATP for making a top notch pwo with open label.




    Flavor 4/5

    I'm not a huge fan of berry flavors but it was the perfect sweetness and the flavor really masked the bitter ingredients in the pre. Usually Citrruline Malate makes things bitter but the flavoring system did great work overcoming it.

    Mixibility 5/5

    One level scoop in 12oz of water and you only need a few shakes and it dissolves really good and no grittiness at the bottom.

    Profile 5/5


    It speaks for itself. Open label, pump matrix is stellar, the caffiene content is perfect with 100mg of tea making the energy smooth and long lasting.

    Workout 5/5

    Only a few pres make me feel like a god in the gym and 10 years younger and this one is one of the best I have tried. Pumps where on point without being a hinderance. The energy was smooth with no crash so that's always good. The focus was better than expected especially with the synergy with the energy blend with focus blend.

    Overall 4.5/5

    Would really like everyone to try this since it's truly a one scooper that delivers everything you want in a pre. Just like above i wish it came in 30 serving tubs or at least 25 since I'm in the gym 6 days a week and use a pre every time.
    •   
       


  3. Perform kinetics review


    A little bit about the product, the very first thing I noticed obviously was the label. There was a well balanced mix of ingredients the amount of caffeine and then di caffeine really had me excited. I could go on for days alone about the ingredients in the perfect dosage. Very very very solid product.


    Product container seal and scoop.

    The product container seem to be made of a higher quality plastic then some of the previous pre-workouts I've used . It was sealed very well I have to use a butter knife to get into the container I like that very much. The scoop had a long handle which makes it very versatile when it comes to a cylinder shaped container no shaking dumping spooning or forking to get the scooped out .

    Taste

    I personally enjoyed the wild berry taste I put a little bit on my tongue just a taste it tasted really good. When mixed with 8 ounces of water I found the taste to be a little bit les sour. In my opinion this is what a pre workout should taste like, it should not taste like Kool Aid.


    Mixability

    The mixability of this product was great, I shook it maybe 5 times without having a ball inside the shaker it was fully mixed and I chugged it down.

    Pump / endurance

    While using perform kinetics I noticed the pump I got my biceps was very good compared to some other pre workouts which advertised as a pump product but really do not come through on promises. The endurance while taking this pre workout was amazing I did .75 scoops first time it kept me going all day then I did one full scoop and I noticed a little bit more jittery caffeine lite feeling which is supposed to happen with a pre workout that is made to get you going. For some odd reason I decided to try two scoops and that was rather intense I mixed it into 14 ounces of lukewarm water then chilled it and shook it again it was great it kept me up almost all night lots of good energy to get things done around the house and in my personal life lol.

    Focus / mental drive

    Usually during my workouts I get distracted either by the kids yelling my name the wife asking me to do something or a text message on my phone. With this I put in my ear phones turning my back to the world and got in a solid workout each and every time I definitely felt the stronger mental focus on this one then I have any other one on the market so big points here in this department.....

    Final conclusion

    I would definitely add this in as my pre-workout for German volume training bodybuilding exercises body weight exercises and Liss training. The product is very versatile it can be used for many different things no matter what you prefer as a workout style. This product will come through everytime you will feel motivated energized ready to tear **** the **** up... So full 5 stars across the board there was absolutely nothing that I didn't like about this product. I have been heavily recommending this product on Instagram Facebook anabolic minds into my inner circle... Thank you very much for the opportunity to try such a wonderful product and I've had great results thus far. Until next time bighulksmash.

  4. Looking like a winner!!
    TEAM GET DIESEL
    GET DIESEL NUTRITION | SINCE 2002 | GETDIESEL.COM

    Use Code 'Rocket5' for 5% off at FeFiFo.com

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    ATP Perform Kinetics review


    Big shout out to the peeps at ATP for making a top notch pwo with open label.




    Flavor 4/5

    I'm not a huge fan of berry flavors but it was the perfect sweetness and the flavor really masked the bitter ingredients in the pre. Usually Citrruline Malate makes things bitter but the flavoring system did great work overcoming it.

    Mixibility 5/5

    One level scoop in 12oz of water and you only need a few shakes and it dissolves really good and no grittiness at the bottom.

    Profile 5/5


    It speaks for itself. Open label, pump matrix is stellar, the caffiene content is perfect with 100mg of tea making the energy smooth and long lasting.

    Workout 5/5

    Only a few pres make me feel like a god in the gym and 10 years younger and this one is one of the best I have tried. Pumps where on point without being a hinderance. The energy was smooth with no crash so that's always good. The focus was better than expected especially with the synergy with the energy blend with focus blend.

    Overall 4.5/5

    Would really like everyone to try this since it's truly a one scooper that delivers everything you want in a pre. Just like above i wish it came in 30 serving tubs or at least 25 since I'm in the gym 6 days a week and use a pre every time.
    Quote Originally Posted by bighulksmash View Post
    Perform kinetics review


    A little bit about the product, the very first thing I noticed obviously was the label. There was a well balanced mix of ingredients the amount of caffeine and then di caffeine really had me excited. I could go on for days alone about the ingredients in the perfect dosage. Very very very solid product.


    Product container seal and scoop.

    The product container seem to be made of a higher quality plastic then some of the previous pre-workouts I've used . It was sealed very well I have to use a butter knife to get into the container I like that very much. The scoop had a long handle which makes it very versatile when it comes to a cylinder shaped container no shaking dumping spooning or forking to get the scooped out .

    Taste

    I personally enjoyed the wild berry taste I put a little bit on my tongue just a taste it tasted really good. When mixed with 8 ounces of water I found the taste to be a little bit les sour. In my opinion this is what a pre workout should taste like, it should not taste like Kool Aid.


    Mixability

    The mixability of this product was great, I shook it maybe 5 times without having a ball inside the shaker it was fully mixed and I chugged it down.

    Pump / endurance

    While using perform kinetics I noticed the pump I got my biceps was very good compared to some other pre workouts which advertised as a pump product but really do not come through on promises. The endurance while taking this pre workout was amazing I did .75 scoops first time it kept me going all day then I did one full scoop and I noticed a little bit more jittery caffeine lite feeling which is supposed to happen with a pre workout that is made to get you going. For some odd reason I decided to try two scoops and that was rather intense I mixed it into 14 ounces of lukewarm water then chilled it and shook it again it was great it kept me up almost all night lots of good energy to get things done around the house and in my personal life lol.

    Focus / mental drive

    Usually during my workouts I get distracted either by the kids yelling my name the wife asking me to do something or a text message on my phone. With this I put in my ear phones turning my back to the world and got in a solid workout each and every time I definitely felt the stronger mental focus on this one then I have any other one on the market so big points here in this department.....

    Final conclusion

    I would definitely add this in as my pre-workout for German volume training bodybuilding exercises body weight exercises and Liss training. The product is very versatile it can be used for many different things no matter what you prefer as a workout style. This product will come through everytime you will feel motivated energized ready to tear **** the **** up... So full 5 stars across the board there was absolutely nothing that I didn't like about this product. I have been heavily recommending this product on Instagram Facebook anabolic minds into my inner circle... Thank you very much for the opportunity to try such a wonderful product and I've had great results thus far. Until next time bighulksmash.
    You guys have no idea how great it is to hear the rave accolades and reviews all of you are posting! This is what ATP is all about...science-backed, clinically-dosed products to give you guys the ability to Aspire, Train, and Perform in and out of the gym! Stay tuned for some game-changing products coming soon that we've been working tirelessly to formulate

    Only the best for you guys.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by hbspeed88 View Post
    You guys have no idea how great it is to hear the rave accolades and reviews all of you are posting! This is what ATP is all about...science-backed, clinically-dosed products to give you guys the ability to Aspire, Train, and Perform in and out of the gym! Stay tuned for some game-changing products coming soon that we've been working tirelessly to formulate

    Only the best for you guys.
    You guys made me a ATP fan from just one product
    Can't wait to see what the future holds

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    You guys made me a ATP fan from just one product
    Can't wait to see what the future holds
    Thrilled to have you guys here supporting ATP!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Rocket3015 View Post
    ATP's Perform Kinetics comprehensive all-in-one pre!

    I was given the opportunity to review ATP Nutrition's new pre workout supplement Perform Kinetics™ in the Wildberry Fruit Punch Flavor. Thank you ATP. I have been using this product for the last week.

    Taste 3/5

    I got the Wildberry Punch flavor. First of all let me say taste is a very individual thing, We all like different things. (I have been ridiculed for my fondness of women body builders -ie Sexy) I found this flavor to be a bit tart for my liking, it is not terrible and would not keep me from buying it. If you like Sour Patch Kids candy (I Don't) you might love it!!

    Mixability 5/5

    1 scoop with about 10oz of water in a shaker cup no problem, no grit, no floaties mixes completely in about 20 shakes.

    Formula 5/5

    Engery, Pump, Focus, Endurance all on point. The only thing I missed in this Pre was the tingles in my forehead and ears, but it lacked nothing in performance. I think the tingle thing for me is kind of like "I feel it, it must be working"

    Workout Reaction 5/5

    Up to this point there were (2) Pre-Workouts I loved, this will make number (3). My workouts were extremely good with this pre. I have my workouts down to about (1) hour no mater what body part. (2) days this week my normal (1) hour workout only took 45 minutes, I had a Great Pump and no crash anytime after. All aspect were positive.

    Notes

    Just a few random thoughts, I would like to see 30 rather than 20 servings per bottle. The bottle is tall and thin, however ATP was courteous enough to provide a long handled scoop...so kudos to them for this. They also have a Strawberry Kiwi flavor (which I would love to try) if the Wildberry is not up your alley.

    Once again Thank you to the folks at ATP Nutrition = Aspire - Train - Perform


    Attachment 128346
    We are sooo glad to hear that you loved it! That's the consistent feedback we've been getting all the way across the board!

    As far as serving size, this is as packed with clinical dosing and expensive ingredients, so offering it at 30 servings would definitely add to the price. Would you be willing to pay the extra for 30? I'm looking into increasing this currently while also looking at cost etc.

    As with all things, we pay close attention to what our consumers want and always look at ways to implement feedback into our products!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Jebrook View Post
    Perform Kinetics Review
    Taste:5/5
    For me this was perfect. I had the Wildberry flavor. It actually tastes more like a tart or sour cherry IMO. Loved it. Was worried such a strong tartness would irritate the stomach but no issues thus far.
    Profile: 5/5
    Awesome comprehensive formula. Love the addition of Theacrine. My first time using it. Very complete formula and solid dosages of the ingredients.
    Results:5/5
    Amazing focus and energy. I work night shifts. My first dose was taken at 3 p.m. After being awake for 19 hours. It was leg day. I killed it! Quick hard hitting energy that leveled off and kept me moving throughout the rest of my 32 hour day. Also helped with the anxiety I normally experience on my long days. Pumps were pretty sic as well. For me the stim and focus was top notch.
    Overall: 5/5 I haven't checked the pricing as this was a promo but this is a great all around pwo. Would definitely buy this again if the price is reasonable. Outstanding mood, focus, and energy. Great pumps. Very good first product from @ATP Nutrition. Thanks again for the opportunity to try this!
    Awesome review! Again, consistent with the other reviews we've been getting in. The stim Matrix really delivers and Performs even better than we were hoping. Powerful energy and no crash? There's really something special about this pre-workout and for being on the market for such a short time people are beginning to take notice!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    ATP Perform Kinetics review


    Big shout out to the peeps at ATP for making a top notch pwo with open label.




    Flavor 4/5

    I'm not a huge fan of berry flavors but it was the perfect sweetness and the flavor really masked the bitter ingredients in the pre. Usually Citrruline Malate makes things bitter but the flavoring system did great work overcoming it.

    Mixibility 5/5

    One level scoop in 12oz of water and you only need a few shakes and it dissolves really good and no grittiness at the bottom.

    Profile 5/5


    It speaks for itself. Open label, pump matrix is stellar, the caffiene content is perfect with 100mg of tea making the energy smooth and long lasting.

    Workout 5/5

    Only a few pres make me feel like a god in the gym and 10 years younger and this one is one of the best I have tried. Pumps where on point without being a hinderance. The energy was smooth with no crash so that's always good. The focus was better than expected especially with the synergy with the energy blend with focus blend.

    Overall 4.5/5

    Would really like everyone to try this since it's truly a one scooper that delivers everything you want in a pre. Just like above i wish it came in 30 serving tubs or at least 25 since I'm in the gym 6 days a week and use a pre every time.
    Hahaha you think Citrulline Malate is bitter? The TeaCrine is what we hard a time masking. The guys that did my flavoring probably hate me lol

    I'm glad you enjoyed it to the level you did brother! Thank you for the review

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ATP Nutrition View Post
    We are sooo glad to hear that you loved it! That's the consistent feedback we've been getting all the way across the board!

    As far as serving size, this is as packed with clinical dosing and expensive ingredients, so offering it at 30 servings would definitely add to the price. Would you be willing to pay the extra for 30? I'm looking into increasing this currently while also looking at cost etc.

    As with all things, we pay close attention to what our consumers want and always look at ways to implement feedback into our products!
    If you look across the forums you will see the same complaint about pre kaged,scream,pre jym .....

    All have effective doses and people love them and willing to pay 35% more for 50% more product.
  12. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Only thing I'll say about 30 servings vs. 20 is think about how often it's actually used. My initial thought was the same, but even on a 5 day split, 20 servings is a full month.



    I'll have my full review up soon -- I really enjoy this.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Representative | [email protected] | Inspire to Evolve

  13. Teacrine was awesome in this!

  14. It is just plain "Good Stuff"
    TEAM GET DIESEL
    GET DIESEL NUTRITION | SINCE 2002 | GETDIESEL.COM

    Use Code 'Rocket5' for 5% off at FeFiFo.com

  15. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    Only thing I'll say about 30 servings vs. 20 is think about how often it's actually used. My initial thought was the same, but even on a 5 day split, 20 servings is a full month.



    I'll have my full review up soon -- I really enjoy this.
    Awesome to hear Beast! Especially from someone that's been around here so long

    Quote Originally Posted by bighulksmash View Post
    Teacrine was awesome in this!
    It's a bad ass stimulant, man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket3015 View Post
    It is just plain "Good Stuff"
    Thanks man! It's starting to spread more and more! We have 3 new products on the horizon as well. All will deliver the same way this has!

  16. Thanks man! It's starting to spread more and more! We have 3 new products on the horizon as well. All will deliver the same way this has!
    Keeps me up at night Always thinking, always thinking.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    If you look across the forums you will see the same complaint about pre kaged,scream,pre jym .....

    All have effective doses and people love them and willing to pay 35% more for 50% more product.
    You have to remember that forums are a very small portion of the total market. Most consumers aren't as informed as forum members nor do they care to know. What matters to them is cost. We def hear what you're saying and are looking into future evolution of Perform Kinetics

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ATP Nutrition View Post
    You have to remember that forums are a very small portion of the total market. Most consumers aren't as informed as forum members nor do they care to know. What matters to them is cost. We def hear what you're saying and are looking into future evolution of Perform Kinetics
    Agreed. I try to talk people's ears off about the science behind Perform Kinetics and it basically goes in one ear and out the other. Lots of people just want a product that they "can feel" and is relatively cheap and affordable, especially in the pre workout market!

    The best part about working with ATP and posting on AM is that I can be around and communicate with people who care about science!

  19. Quote Originally Posted by ATP Nutrition View Post
    You have to remember that forums are a very small portion of the total market. Most consumers aren't as informed as forum members nor do they care to know. What matters to them is cost. We def hear what you're saying and are looking into future evolution of Perform Kinetics
    Yep I agree and totally understand that. Maybe do both size tube or make a cheaper formula that's almost as good with more serving?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    Yep I agree and totally understand that. Maybe do both size tube or make a cheaper formula that's almost as good with more serving?
    Never go cheaper or almost as good. If it's not better it doesn't replace the old one It's selling great right now with phenomenal reviews.

    We've taken note of a few guys on here and in our retailers, so we'll definitely look into it when the time comes!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Rocket3015 View Post
    Looking like a winner!!
    Every one of our products is created with the intention of being the best supplement on the market my friend! We have high expectations for ourselves and the products we produce.
  22. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    I was lucky enough to be sent a full tub of the wildberry fruit punch flavor of Perform Kinetics.

    Before I ever tried it, I liked the profile. I'm not a fan of prop. blends, but I'll still use products that have them and it doesn't really bother me if it's a company I trust (particularly if it's broken down into smaller matrices where one is able to deduce roughly how much of each ingredient is likely included). That said, open information about exactly how much of what I'm taking is the best -- so that's the first good mark.

    In the pump matrix, there are 3 solid ingredients I like all in good amounts -- 6g citrulline malate, 1.5g Hydromax, and 1g agmatine (I'm not too sure about the NAC, personally, as I've never utilized it outside of general health/cycle support, but I do know as a bulk powder it tastes horrendous lol). 2g of taurine and 2g of COP along with the rhodiola is another great addition. I actually use bulk taurine in my intra mix, but it's not really necessary when I'm getting it in via pre-workout. Possibly my favorite of this particular product is the 300mg Alpha-GPC -- not one that is utilized as much as I'd like to see and a good dose, too. Solid addition to the pikatropin and huperzine (though I already utilize a higher amount of huperzine-A daily, so that one doesn't really benefit me all that much. The Alpha-GPC in addition to the multi-format caffeine blend (in the total amount that it is, too) is solid for energy.

    I found that energy and focus was on point with this. It was not a stimmed out feeling at all, nor one that I really noticed an "onset" of, either -- it just showed up, existed for my workout, and allowed me to leave the gym and return to normal life just as it came on -- without much notice. That's a good thing. The pump was obviously solid; almost feel like I don't need to mention that with the profile of this product, but it was as you would expect. Endurance was solid, as well.

    The flavor took some getting used to for me -- I had to play around with the amount of water and what I found was that more water actually made this more enjoyable for me (which is rarely the case). So I ended up with nearly a full shaker full of water as my sweet spot. It mixed up perfectly with no problem at all, either. Definitely not my favorite of flavors I've tried, but not bad by any means and not a deterrent in my using the product or considering it for purchase, either (I generally slam my pre-workout anyway -- regardless of how good it tastes). I'd be interested to see how the strawberry kiwi tastes, as well.

    I also tried this solo, as well as mixed with just beta alanine extra, and also with beta alanine + USP's Modern Creatine (namely to get the betaine). I found both of those cases to be good, but just the beta alanine alone was nice and gave me a pick-up in the endurance column.

    And this is kind of an afterthought, but I love that this doesn't have creatine in it. One of my favorite products is CardioTryx and I utilize it before playing basketball. I like to take it 1 hour out and my preference is to use a pre-workout product that aids in endurance and energy along with 1 cap of ephedrine to open up my breathing, but CTryx needs to be dosed away from creatine. Hence, this plus the beta alanine makes for a great pre-cardio/sport product.

    Overall I was very pleased with this and will happily support it and use it in the future.

    Thank you very much for the kind gesture of allowing me to try this out.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
    EvoMuse Representative | [email protected] | Inspire to Evolve

  23. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    I was lucky enough to be sent a full tub of the wildberry fruit punch flavor of Perform Kinetics.

    Before I ever tried it, I liked the profile. I'm not a fan of prop. blends, but I'll still use products that have them and it doesn't really bother me if it's a company I trust (particularly if it's broken down into smaller matrices where one is able to deduce roughly how much of each ingredient is likely included). That said, open information about exactly how much of what I'm taking is the best -- so that's the first good mark.

    In the pump matrix, there are 3 solid ingredients I like all in good amounts -- 6g citrulline malate, 1.5g Hydromax, and 1g agmatine (I'm not too sure about the NAC, personally, as I've never utilized it outside of general health/cycle support, but I do know as a bulk powder it tastes horrendous lol). 2g of taurine and 2g of COP along with the rhodiola is another great addition. I actually use bulk taurine in my intra mix, but it's not really necessary when I'm getting it in via pre-workout. Possibly my favorite of this particular product is the 300mg Alpha-GPC -- not one that is utilized as much as I'd like to see and a good dose, too. Solid addition to the pikatropin and huperzine (though I already utilize a higher amount of huperzine-A daily, so that one doesn't really benefit me all that much. The Alpha-GPC in addition to the multi-format caffeine blend (in the total amount that it is, too) is solid for energy.

    I found that energy and focus was on point with this. It was not a stimmed out feeling at all, nor one that I really noticed an "onset" of, either -- it just showed up, existed for my workout, and allowed me to leave the gym and return to normal life just as it came on -- without much notice. That's a good thing. The pump was obviously solid; almost feel like I don't need to mention that with the profile of this product, but it was as you would expect. Endurance was solid, as well.

    The flavor took some getting used to for me -- I had to play around with the amount of water and what I found was that more water actually made this more enjoyable for me (which is rarely the case). So I ended up with nearly a full shaker full of water as my sweet spot. It mixed up perfectly with no problem at all, either. Definitely not my favorite of flavors I've tried, but not bad by any means and not a deterrent in my using the product or considering it for purchase, either (I generally slam my pre-workout anyway -- regardless of how good it tastes). I'd be interested to see how the strawberry kiwi tastes, as well.

    I also tried this solo, as well as mixed with just beta alanine extra, and also with beta alanine + USP's Modern Creatine (namely to get the betaine). I found both of those cases to be good, but just the beta alanine alone was nice and gave me a pick-up in the endurance column.

    And this is kind of an afterthought, but I love that this doesn't have creatine in it. One of my favorite products is CardioTryx and I utilize it before playing basketball. I like to take it 1 hour out and my preference is to use a pre-workout product that aids in endurance and energy along with 1 cap of ephedrine to open up my breathing, but CTryx needs to be dosed away from creatine. Hence, this plus the beta alanine makes for a great pre-cardio/sport product.

    Overall I was very pleased with this and will happily support it and use it in the future.

    Thank you very much for the kind gesture of allowing me to try this out.
    Fantastic review Midwest! Extremely thorough and honest. Just the way we like them! Glad to hear you are all enjoying Perform Kinetics.

    ~on the creatine note that you mentioned:
    We create every one of our products as a tool for the purpose it is to be used. Creatine is something that needs to be taken over long periods of time at optimal doses in order to saturate creatine stores. Why would anyone bother putting creatine into a pre-workout that is only taken a few days a week? With a pre-workout, you want something that hits you fast and can deliver quick. Each product fits the job that it is intended for. Creatine in a pre workout is like using a screwdriver with a nail; they are both good tools when used properly, but in that case, they don't work well together.

  24. Very solid and helpful review @MidwestBeast
    Good stuff bro!
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