Synthetic Supplements - Methyl-Synephrine Tabs

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    2 tabs a day. It was added to Alpha T-2. Thought I noticed a slight difference early on, but it dissipated. Still have a bottle left might run it with caffeine tabs at 1.5 a dose.
    Your not using caffeine with each dose?
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Your not using caffeine with each dose?
    I did for about the last half of the bottle as I was logging AT-2. Take it that might have been a mistake from your tone

    FWIW I may have needed a big stim break when I took it.

    Your results/experiences with MS?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    Your not using caffeine with each dose?
    I just got a bottle...is this supposed to be dosed with caffeine for maximum effectiveness?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I did for about the last half of the bottle as I was logging AT-2. Take it that might have been a mistake from your tone

    FWIW I may have needed a big stim break when I took it.

    Your results/experiences with MS?
    I havent taken it standalone as its easy for me to use ec, but Im open for trying it out in the future. I should get a couple of bottles before (in case) they are gone.

    I did have good experience with the very original Alpha T-2 but that has other things in it as well and the MS. I dont recall how much MS was in Alpha T-2, but I think it had 30mg and with added caffeine should be a decent enough dose to have effect, although 60mg should be much better I heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    I just got a bottle...is this supposed to be dosed with caffeine for maximum effectiveness?
    I think 60mg with 200mg caffeine is an effective dose. There isnt research with stacking MS with caffeine the same way there is with EC, but 60MS/200C should be something I personally would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by neuron
    Caffeine is definitely a must with methylsynephrine. Even ephedrine itself has demonstrated weak lipolytic inducing potential in the absence of caffeine. This makes sense as caffeine potentiates the transduction (Gs) mechanism involved in fat loss (inc. cAMP).
    Quote Originally Posted by neuron
    One of the things which I wanted to elaborate upon was the transduction mechanisms inherent to different adrenergic receptors.

    For example, alpha1-receptors activate the IP3-DAG transduction cascade which ultimately results in calcium release and contraction/vasoconstriction (in smooth muscle). This mechanism is potentiated by caffeine co-consumption since caffeine enhances calcium release. Conversely, beta-receptors (all three of them) work through elevation of intracellular cAMP. Since caffeine also functions as a PDEi, cAMP levels will be prolonged. This explains why ephedrine alone (a beta-3 agonist) is only a weak lipolytic-inducing agent, but extremely potent in concert with caffeine.

    Here's a good reveiw: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...ca039e1e6c4368

    Quote Originally Posted by neuron
    Synephrines downsides
    Increasing peripheral vascular resistance is a negative characteristic of a lot of stimulants and is especially exacerbated in compounds which primarily activate alpha-receptors like synephrine. Not only is the incidence of stroke and hemorrhage higher with these agents, but the work-load put on the heart can trigger ventricular fibrillations or other arrhythmias [6, 7, 8]. Using caffeine in conjunction with synephrine will potentiate the peripheral vasoconstriction by synergizing with the transduction mechanism induced by alpha-adrenergic agonism [9, 10]. Adrenergic agonists with high affinity to alpha-receptors also have the unfortunate capacity to induce platelet aggregation by agonizing alpha-2 receptors on platelets which can lead to intravascular clotting [11, 12].
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    I havent taken it standalone as its easy for me to use ec, but Im open for trying it out in the future. I should get a couple of bottles before (in case) they are gone.

    I did have good experience with the very original Alpha T-2 but that has other things in it as well and the MS. I dont recall how much MS was in Alpha T-2, but I think it had 30mg and with added caffeine should be a decent enough dose to have effect, although 60mg should be much better I heard.

    I think 60mg with 200mg caffeine is an effective dose. There isnt research with stacking MS with caffeine the same way there is with EC, but 60MS/200C should be something I personally would do.
    Very interesting... good thing I saw this thread. For recomp or cutting, is this better pre meal or pre cardio?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Very interesting... good thing I saw this thread. For recomp or cutting, is this better pre meal or pre cardio?
    I dont think either necessarily matters, but taking it with caffeine is crucial. Think about how many people take ephedrine without caffeine. None.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Very interesting... good thing I saw this thread. For recomp or cutting, is this better pre meal or pre cardio?

    Id dose 3 times a day. You can take it pre-workout which makes sense since if you like taking stims pre-workout it just makes for good timing (and eliminate the 4th dose in that day of taking a stim). You want to make sure your in a good state of health and dont run into blood pressure issues when taking pre-training.

    If you want the best effect I would take it fasted on an empty stomach. Some people such as myself cant take caffeine in such a way due to a nauseating effect from the caffeine so I take my ephedrine with coffee for example, the half and half makes a dramatic difference for me.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Ran a bottle and the stimulant effect was small to nill for me. As for the fat burning not really sure. Didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.
    MS doesn't penetrate the BBB so this isn't surprising. It should, however, promote lipolysis.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    Id dose 3 times a day. You can take it pre-workout which makes sense since if you like taking stims pre-workout it just makes for good timing (and eliminate the 4th dose in that day of taking a stim). You want to make sure your in a good state of health and dont run into blood pressure issues when taking pre-training.

    If you want the best effect I would take it fasted on an empty stomach. Some people such as myself cant take caffeine in such a way due to a nauseating effect from the caffeine so I take my ephedrine with coffee for example, the half and half makes a dramatic difference for me.
    So would it be 20mg ms plus 100mg caffeine each dose?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    So would it be 20mg ms plus 100mg caffeine each dose?
    IMO I would do 60/200 two to three times a day. 20mg is a bit weak.

    I think those caps that are available are 60 mg each so thats perfect.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    IMO I would do 60/200 two to three times a day. 20mg is a bit weak.

    I think those caps that are available are 60 mg each so thats perfect.
    Hmm alright, I'll probably have to work up to that much caffeine in a day

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    MS doesn't penetrate the BBB so this isn't surprising. It should, however, promote lipolysis.
    It's hard to tell whether or not it did as I was already running AT2. I didn't think I saw much extra from the addition but it isn't like I measured with calipers or anything, just mirror/scale.

    I didn't know it would have 0 or minimal stimulant effect. Thanks for the knowledge.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    It's hard to tell whether or not it did as I was already running AT2. I didn't think I saw much extra from the addition but it isn't like I measured with calipers or anything, just mirror/scale.

    I didn't know it would have 0 or minimal stimulant effect. Thanks for the knowledge.
    You can get a stimulant effect using MS as far as I heard. Some people may not respond as well and require 100mg+ if the effect is what your looking for.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    You can get a stimulant effect using MS as far as I heard. Some people may not respond as well and require 100mg+ if the effect is what your looking for.
    I read Coops post as a stimulant effect wasn't likely...did I read it wrong?
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce

    I read Coops post as a stimulant effect wasn't likely...did I read it wrong?
    He explained that to me as well.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I read Coops post as a stimulant effect wasn't likely...did I read it wrong?
    Just going by anecdotal testing going behind the scenes from various people. There seems to be a definite effect compared to ephedrine when dosed right. Im gonna have to try it out and find out myself
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    You can get a stimulant effect using MS as far as I heard. Some people may not respond as well and require 100mg+ if the effect is what your looking for.
    Like synephrine, you still get peripheral stimulation (i.e. appetite suppression) and weak activity at the median eminence at the hypothalamus.Also, you should be doing 120mg + 200mg caffeine. The effect is not comparable to ephedrine since the addition of yet another hydroxyl group completely precludes BBB penetration.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Like synephrine, you still get peripheral stimulation (i.e. appetite suppression) and weak activity at the median eminence at the hypothalamus.Also, you should be doing 120mg + 200mg caffeine. The effect is not comparable to ephedrine since the addition of yet another hydroxyl group completely precludes BBB penetration.
    Those reports Ive read certainly may be placebo for sure.

    Hey, have you ever seen Neuron's "Pharmacology of Methylsynephrine" thread? Its a cool read if you havent had run into it before.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Those reports Ive read certainly may be placebo for sure.

    Hey, have you ever seen Neuron's "Pharmacology of Methylsynephrine" thread? Its a cool read if you havent had run into it before.
    Got a link? I know he's a semi-fan

  20. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Got a link? I know he's a semi-fan
    I cant here, but if you google that (Neuron Pharmacology of Methylsynephrine) it should be top search my friend.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I cant here, but if you google that (Neuron Pharmacology of Methylsynephrine) it should be top search my friend.
    Just read up on it, well-written as always. I disagree that it has comparable effects to ephedrine though; lipolytic, yes, but even 120mg is a far cry from 25mg ephedrine due to the latter's mixed (b2/b3) activity.

  22. So in other words Coop, caffeine (200mg+) should be dosed with MS caps (120mg a day).

    People may not notice a stim effect from the MS solo besides appetite suppression. Correct? Also this does not come close or compare to E/C stack.
    Any blood pressure issues with M/S?
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    So in other words Coop, caffeine (200mg+) should be dosed with MS caps (120mg a day).

    People may not notice a stim effect from the MS solo besides appetite suppression. Correct? Also this does not come close or compare to E/C stack.
    Any blood pressure issues with M/S?
    No, 200mg caffeine should be dosed with 120mg MS, spaced 5 hours away from other stims. MS causes a mild rise in systolic BP but actually lowers diastolic BP

  24. Could MS be combined with the EC stack or would that be serious overkill/diminishing returns coop?
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Could MS be combined with the EC stack or would that be serious overkill/diminishing returns coop?
    No point in combining.

    NP has about 50 bottles left in stock, and I believe thats all the MS that remains on the interwebs
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Could MS be combined with the EC stack or would that be serious overkill/diminishing returns coop?
    I wouldn't. Both from a safety perspective, and because they are both acting on similar (but not identical) receptors.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    MS causes a mild rise in systolic BP but actually lowers diastolic BP
    So is that good or bad?

    I'm thinking this may also give the CNS a break as well for the regular stim users?

  28. You guys planning on another limited run with this anytime soon?Or is it gone for good?Love this stuff.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    So is that good or bad?

    I'm thinking this may also give the CNS a break as well for the regular stim users?
    Yup, no CNS penetration and it's a good thing that it lowers BP

  30. Glad I found this thread, stuff seems hard to figure out all on my own
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