POST Cycle Support has arrived ! ! !

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Shakka1975 View Post
    this is all new to me...i dont know alot of the abreviated terms that are used like I3C and zma... i know they are a supps but i dont have a clue to what. Ok when you stated once i get to 4 weeks meaning after my havoc cycle? or after my pct to take 6oxo? So is Activate Extreme something good or bad for pct? Same question for Inhibit-E. Now it seems Post Cycle Support and Activate extreme state they do similar things as to geting your libido back to normal. Inhibit-E states it loweres estrogen as does Post Cycle Support. So is this the wrong stack as a pct? This is kinda like a crash course of trying to learn about pct in a week but im one to not understand this kind of thing easily.
    I3C = Indole 3 Carbinol a natural test booster
    ZMA = Zinc Magnesium Aspertate Most have valerian root also and you take it before bed. It helps you get more REM sleep which is when the body releases HGH which stimulates LH/FSH release and consequently raises test levels.

    6-oxo should be taken after whatever your PCT is and cycled down for 3-4 weeks. This will help to prevent any estrogen rebound.

    You can read dinoii's PCT notes and recommendations at DA in the PCT section. I would highly recommend reading it over and over. It is chalk full of good information.


  2. Isn't I3C natural aromatase inhibitor/anti-e, albeit weak? That was another ingredient that was possibly going to be added to POST Cycle Support, but it was cost prohibitive at the appropriate dosages.

    I could be thinking of something else.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    Isn't I3C natural aromatase inhibitor/anti-e, albeit weak? That was another ingredient that was possibly going to be added to POST Cycle Support, but it was cost prohibitive at the appropriate dosages.

    I could be thinking of something else.
    Could be. I just started reading on it so I reserve the right to be wrong ...

  4. Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong...I was just trying to figure out in which way it works. I would still consider it a test booster whether it's an ai or if it only increases natty production (IE via stimulating LH).

    Aromatase inhibitors increase natty test to an extent, right? FWIR, they will indirectly raise natty test (I'm guessing via a negative feedback loop involving estrogen, which or course, comes from testosterone).
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49

  5. Quote Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong...I was just trying to figure out in which way it works. I would still consider it a test booster whether it's an ai or if it only increases natty production (IE via stimulating LH).

    Aromatase inhibitors increase natty test to an extent, right? FWIR, they will indirectly raise natty test (I'm guessing via a negative feedback loop involving estrogen, which or course, comes from testosterone).
    Yes on AI's but! (Caveat Emptor) After a cycle your estrogen is high and test is low. An AI is going to prevent test from becoming estrogen so where is the estrogen going to come from when you are shut down? This is why I don't recommend an AI right after a cycle.

    1) high estrogen levels will signal the negative feedback loop to establish that you need to make test to get your body back to a state of homeostasis.

    2) If you kill off the aromatase and test production kicks in you will lower the estrogen in the body thus lowering the amount of test your body will produce. Remember that ATD and 6-Bromo will free up bound inactive test which will only serve to tell your body that test levels are higher than they really are = stop test production.

    3) Estrogen plays an important part in muscle protein synthesis so it doesn't make sense to try and lower it when you are trying to keep what you worked hard for.

    These are big reasons why you see me not recommending an AI until test levels are back up there.

    BTW: I3C is an antioxidant that has some effect on the metabolism of estrogen though I could not find much on the estrogenic antagonist properties. I would assume that is where the test boost occurs.
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  6. I did not know number 1.

    Interesting.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49

  7. Quote Originally Posted by stxnas View Post
    I did not know number 1.

    Interesting.
    LOL! I probably should edit that to say High estrogen levels will signal the negative feedbak loop that you need to make test to return to homeostasis! I think I will edit that ...

  8. I love PCS and I just got a new bottle yesterday and it's now better. I love the flashy new label and clear bottle...sweet.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by dmangiarelli View Post
    LOL! I probably should edit that to say High estrogen levels will signal the negative feedbak loop that you need to make test to return to homeostasis! I think I will edit that ...
    I should CAVEAT those to say after an AROMATIZING CYCLE.

    After something like epi levels aren't high...

    I should now admit that I was wrong on #1. Got my blood test results back for my Bold/P-Plex/Trena cycle. Estrogen levels were low. After doing some reading it is these low estrogen levels which signal the body to make more testosterone (negative feedback loop) to convert to estrogen. Bold and Trena and P-Plex for that matter should have aromatized and therefore I should have had higher estrogen levels. At least from what I have read that's what should have happened. Since estrogen levels are low taking an AI at this point is not a good idea as it will only further suppress estrogen and possibly SHBG. This could affect libido as well as being able to keep the gains I have made.

    Learn something new everyday!

  10. Ha ha...I'm glad that you let us know that...I thought I was losing it.
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49

  11. Does anyone have any positive bloodwork on this product.. or is it all hear say?

    I ran one bottle at suggested dosing for one month and it barely had an impact on my blood testosterone levels. Prior to PCS my TT was 271, a month after only 294. Not much of a change, if any at all. Not to mention the product gave me the runs (50% Reservatol comes from a laxative).

  12. I wouldn't call it hear say.

    There are actual medical results proving it increases test levels

    1: Arch Pharm Res. 2008 Jan;31(1):83-7.Links
    trans-Resveratrol relaxes the corpus cavernosum ex vivo and enhances testosterone levels and sperm quality in vivo.Shin S, Jeon JH, Park D, Jang MJ, Choi JH, Choi BH, Joo SS, Nahm SS, Kim JC, Kim YB.
    College of Veterinary Medicine, Chungbuk National University, Heungdeok-gu, Cheongju, Chungbuk 361-763, Korea.

    We examined the effects of trans-resveratrol on male reproductive functions; ex-vivo penile erection and in-vivo sperm counts and quality. For the ex-vivo study, the relaxation effects of resveratrol on isolated New Zealand white rabbit corpus cavernosum, precontracted by phenylephrine (5x10(-5) M) were measured. The in-vivo study measured reproductive organ weights, blood testosterone levels, testicular histopathology, sperm counts, as well as the epididymal sperm motility and deformity of male ICR mice given an oral dose of resveratrol (50 mg/ kg) for 28 days. Resveratrol elicited a concentration-dependent relaxing effect on corpus cavernosum, leading to a median effective concentration (EC50) of 0.29 mg/mL. Repeated treatment with resveratrol (50 mg/kg) did not cause an increase in body weight, reproductive organ weight or testicular microscopic findings; however, resveratrol did elicit an increase in blood testosterone concentration, testicular sperm counts and epididymal sperm motility by 51.6%, 15.8% and 23.3%, respectively, without influence on sperm deformity. In conclusion, we propose that resveratrol has a positive effect on male reproductive function by triggering a penile erection, as well as enhancing blood testosterone levels, testicular sperm counts, and epididymal sperm motility.

    PMID: 18277612

    RXLift what where your other blood work numbers?


    CROWLER
    Sleep Supplement 3Z BCAA: Red Raspberry and Lemon flavors
    HGH/sleep enhancer: HGHpro
    Test Booster: TestoPRO and STOKED!
    Preworkout: MANIAC Fruit Punch and Pink Lemonade

  13. Total Testosterone are the only levels that I have that are pre and post use. I would like to see more blood work, as it is possible I may just be a special case. At the same time I don't think people should be using this as the sole base of their PCT.. maybe as an adjunct with a SERM but definitely not by itself.

    BTW that study uses a lot more reservatol then what is in PCS. A 180lb male would be using 4000mg of Reservatol to get the effects of that study, where as using your product 4 capsules a day you would only be getting 600mg of Reservatol (Since it is a 50% extract). Thats not even close..

  14. CROWLER


    EDIT

    This was posted by BillyPC on another forum about that study.

    There is a problem with the calculation of the Human equiavlent dosage (HED) above. Long story short, their calculation ignores body surface area and thus overestimates HED in comparison to the most common dose translations used between animals and humans. One needs to utilize the published Km factors for mice and humans to arrive at the HED estimate. That is, 50x(3/37) = 8.108 mg/kg/day. Multiply this by 70kg (arguably normal weight) and you get 283mg/day and not a gram quantity dosage.

    Note that this assumes that there aren't any fundamental differences between mice in humans that are specific to the absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of resveratrol.
    Sleep Supplement 3Z BCAA: Red Raspberry and Lemon flavors
    HGH/sleep enhancer: HGHpro
    Test Booster: TestoPRO and STOKED!
    Preworkout: MANIAC Fruit Punch and Pink Lemonade

  15. I think the feedback from this product speaks for itself.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post

    The study above raised test levels 51%. Using less than that does not mean it wont raise test levels at all.

    We have also put other ingredients in STOKED! which help with absorption so I would expect it to work even better.

    Hey even if it only raised Test levels 25% I think most would be happy


    CROWLER
    You think people would be happy with a 25% increase in test levels?? You are recommending people use this for POST CYCLE STEROID USE. That is even in the name of the product! I don't think a single person would be happy if PCS only raised Test levels 25% after they were shut down from steroid use. Say your levels after you came off were a 100ng/dL.. raise that 25%.. so now your at a what.. whopping 125ng/dL?! If thats the results you are looking for.. go head and waste your cash.

    Lets look at that study- 50mg/kg - 4000mg for a 180lb male to get a say best 50% testosterone increase. Now say if the dosing on this is linear, that 180lb user who is only using 600mg is only using 15% of the dose that is used in the study. 15% of 50% means the user at your dose would only expect to see a 7.5% increase in testosterone levels. I definitely would not be happy with that..

  17. No icarin, no quercitin, no bioprine in that study bro. That's just a little significant considering the test boosting and absorption qualities of those ingredients.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by snookl187 View Post
    No icarin, no quercitin, no bioprine in that study bro. That's just a little significant considering the test boosting and absorption qualities of those ingredients.
    Agreed man.. Icarrin has some pretty good studies behind it when it comes to bumping up testosterone levels.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rx Lift View Post
    You think people would be happy with a 25% increase in test levels?? You are recommending people use this for POST CYCLE STEROID USE. That is even in the name of the product! I don't think a single person would be happy if PCS only raised Test levels 25% after they were shut down from steroid use. Say your levels after you came off were a 100ng/dL.. raise that 25%.. so now your at a what.. whopping 125ng/dL?! If thats the results you are looking for.. go head and waste your cash.

    Lets look at that study- 50mg/kg - 4000mg for a 180lb male to get a say best 50% testosterone increase. Now say if the dosing on this is linear, that 180lb user who is only using 600mg is only using 15% of the dose that is used in the study. 15% of 50% means the user at your dose would only expect to see a 7.5% increase in testosterone levels. I definitely would not be happy with that..

    I was thinking this was about STOKED! I edited my post above but you quoted it before I edited it.

    Sorry for the confussion. Also I rewrote my post about 10 minutes after you quoted it but before you actually clicked on the post button.

    So again here is what was stated on another thread on another forum.



    There is a problem with the calculation of the Human equiavlent dosage (HED) above. Long story short, their calculation ignores body surface area and thus overestimates HED in comparison to the most common dose translations used between animals and humans. One needs to utilize the published Km factors for mice and humans to arrive at the HED estimate. That is, 50x(3/37) = 8.108 mg/kg/day. Multiply this by 70kg (arguably normal weight) and you get 283mg/day and not a gram quantity dosage.

    Note that this assumes that there aren't any fundamental differences between mice in humans that are specific to the absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of resveratrol.



    So you see there is plenty of Resvaratrol in POST Cycle Support.

    Also the other study used less than half the dosage of the above.





    CROWLER
    Sleep Supplement 3Z BCAA: Red Raspberry and Lemon flavors
    HGH/sleep enhancer: HGHpro
    Test Booster: TestoPRO and STOKED!
    Preworkout: MANIAC Fruit Punch and Pink Lemonade

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Rx Lift View Post
    You think people would be happy with a 25% increase in test levels?? You are recommending people use this for POST CYCLE STEROID USE. That is even in the name of the product! I don't think a single person would be happy if PCS only raised Test levels 25% after they were shut down from steroid use. Say your levels after you came off were a 100ng/dL.. raise that 25%.. so now your at a what.. whopping 125ng/dL?! If thats the results you are looking for.. go head and waste your cash.

    Lets look at that study- 50mg/kg - 4000mg for a 180lb male to get a say best 50% testosterone increase. Now say if the dosing on this is linear, that 180lb user who is only using 600mg is only using 15% of the dose that is used in the study. 15% of 50% means the user at your dose would only expect to see a 7.5% increase in testosterone levels. I definitely would not be happy with that..
    The study only talks about a single ingredient.

    POST Cycle Support has other ingredients which also increase test levels.

    Also contains 2 ingredients which increase absorption of the Resveratrol.

    It is comparing apples to oranges to compare POST Cycle Support to simple Resveratrol.



    CROWLER
    Sleep Supplement 3Z BCAA: Red Raspberry and Lemon flavors
    HGH/sleep enhancer: HGHpro
    Test Booster: TestoPRO and STOKED!
    Preworkout: MANIAC Fruit Punch and Pink Lemonade

  21. i'm a newb so sorry...

    but i want to start an epistane cycle and it's been hard for me to get nolva or any other SERM's, so i was wondering if Post Cycle Support is good enough for my PCT, or should i take something else.

    any suggetions would be appreciated...thanks!

  22. Quote Originally Posted by shimshadee View Post
    i'm a newb so sorry...

    but i want to start an epistane cycle and it's been hard for me to get nolva or any other SERM's, so i was wondering if Post Cycle Support is good enough for my PCT, or should i take something else.

    any suggetions would be appreciated...thanks!

    while its preferable to have a SERM on hand, you should be ok with PCS for your Epi PCT. I just finished an epi cycle and am currently in PCT....and that consists of PCS and low dose (50mg) of DHEA, thats it.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by zbtboy View Post
    while its preferable to have a SERM on hand, you should be ok with PCS for your Epi PCT. I just finished an epi cycle and am currently in PCT....and that consists of PCS and low dose (50mg) of DHEA, thats it.
    can you please give some examples of DHEA's that are over the counter?

  24. thanks for your info.

    i must say you guys know your ish!!
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