- 10-11-2012, 02:18 PM
- 10-17-2012, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by d33zLBoy
10-17-2012, 11:04 PM
10-18-2012, 02:06 AM
10-18-2012, 12:08 PM
10-18-2012, 12:36 PM
10-18-2012, 12:39 PM
10-18-2012, 04:31 PM
10-19-2012, 07:56 PM
The bottom line is anybody can market and sell an "Ephedra" based product.... It just can't contain Ephedrine alkaloids. So all of these fat burners that have "Ephedra Leaf" and "Ephedra Extract" are just a bunch of shadily marketd bullcrap. If any of them do happen to contain Ephedrine alkaloids they're really asking for trouble from the feds IMO.
10-22-2012, 09:58 PM
Would you mind posting the actual ingredient dosages here? I know the FDA allows you to refer to a "proprietary blend", but it is really a cop out to those who read this forum.Originally Posted by IronMagLabs
10-23-2012, 06:29 AM
11-30-2012, 06:25 AM
11-30-2012, 06:30 AM
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
12-03-2012, 09:16 AM
Phosphatidic acid is not a stimulant and higenamine, like any stimulant, can be toxic at the right dose.
12-03-2012, 09:53 AM
Recently I found an interesting molecular property predictor which gives you 5 free predictions as a guest and if you register (for free) another 30 predictions, each month*. There are some interesting predictions under Toxicity and ADME.
It appears that Higenamine have not so good bioavailability and at least in rats according to the study** it is metabolized to coclaurine and isococlaurine.
If you do not want to draw the molecules yourself, you can copy following SMILES descriptors instead, by clicking on the smile symbol in the application.
Higenamine: Oc1ccc(cc1)CC2NCCc3cc(O)c(O)cc 23
Coclaurine: Oc1ccc(cc1)CC2NCCc3cc(OC)c(O)c c23
It appears that both Higenamine and its metabolite Coclaurine are predicted as weak binding to Estrogen Receptor alpha (LogRBA between -3 and 0). Under Toxicity/Endocrine Disruption.
A question to Patrick (and others): How useful would you say are such a molecular prediction property tools? Have you used them yourself sometimes?
Due to the rules I cannot post links directly therefore you have to google it yourselfs.
*The predictor name is ACD/I-Lab.
**The title of the article is Identification of higenamine and its metabolites in rat by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.
EDIT: Somehow, there is introduced a gap in the end of SMILES, however when I try to correct it, the gap is nonexistent in the editing text. Therefore if you copy the SMILES, erase the gaps before use in the prediction tool.
12-03-2012, 10:26 AM
12-03-2012, 11:52 AM
12-03-2012, 11:54 AM
12-03-2012, 03:17 PM
For us I would say it could be useful to get some kind of indication for the more “exotic” substances that are found in the supplements nowadays which do not have so many published papers about.
12-04-2012, 12:10 AM
The very first time I tried a product containing higenamine, I felt an ephedra-like boost and was able to run much faster than I normally do for the first 12-15 minutes of my run (which usually lasts longer than an hour). I didn't experience a huge crash when it wore off -- it was more like I just didn't feel the "boost" anymore. However, every time I have used the same product since then, I haven't felt anything at all. I guess I built tolerance to it REALLY fast.
12-04-2012, 04:11 AM
12-04-2012, 08:22 AM
DMAA is still around and with the study showing its in geranium it may stick around for a bit.
Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
12-04-2012, 08:53 AM
12-04-2012, 01:19 PM
12-04-2012, 02:25 PM
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