Let's talk Ursolic Acid...

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    Doc,
    Done any further testing on UA on yourself or clients?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinoiii View Post
    Ok, so the big question centers on Ursobolic and whether it's dosed appropriately....

    3-6 capsules at 150mg/3 caps suggested up to 3 times per day or a total daily dose of 150-900mg per day. I certainly understand how that could prove cost-prohibitive
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I've since changed my mind on this product and I'm giving it a try at 18 caps per day. Hopefully that is a high enough dosage. If I start to see great results I will purchase more when I run low.
    I just started PAs Ursolic acid product at 20 caps a day. Far from economical but lucky for me I got 4 bottles from a trade so am giving it a shot
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    Please post how it goes on that many caps a day. Interrested if there is increase in strength.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I just started PAs Ursolic acid product at 20 caps a day. Far from economical but lucky for me I got 4 bottles from a trade so am giving it a shot
    its a good product but this one is a lot better

    http://www.prototypenutrition.com/Pr...ProductCode=UR

    sorry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    its a good product but this one is a lot better

    http://www.prototypenutrition.com/Pr...ProductCode=UR

    sorry
    My understanding is that UA does not have an oral bio availability problem as the rodents in the studies are utilizing it just fine, the problem lies in the amount we are taking (you just need a lot.)

    Per the HED conversion the amount a human wants is around 1-2g total (not % of the extract) which came to 20 pills a day of your UA product (for 1g).

    Disclaimer: Mind you, I did not perform the HED calculation nor did I really review the literarure.

    I was lucky enough to get a bunch of bottles off a trade . I spoke with someone (in the industry) and above is how it was explained to me. So right now I am doing 5 pills 4 times a day pre meals and with the amount of UA I have, this should last me around 4 weeks. I am not well versed enough in topicals to know how much better a spray would make it but for now I am just mega dosing it orally and will see how it goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    My understanding is that UA does not have an oral bio availability problem as the rodents in the studies are utilizing it just fine, the problem lies in the amount we are taking (you just need a lot.)

    Per the HED conversion the amount a human wants is around 1-2g total (not % of the extract) which came to 20 pills a day of your UA product (for 1g).

    Disclaimer: Mind you, I did not perform the HED calculation nor did I really review the literarure.

    I was lucky enough to get a bunch of bottles off a trade . I spoke with someone (in the industry) and above is how it was explained to me. So right now I am doing 5 pills 4 times a day pre meals and with the amount of UA I have, this should last me around 4 weeks. I am not well versed enough in topicals to know how much better a spray would make it but for now I am just mega dosing it orally and will see how it goes.

    There is science based on mice and there is the real world. Trust me, the spray is way way better

    taking larger dosages orally doesnt seem to overcome the limitations of bioavailablity. Its likely that only so much can be absorbed orally at one time and beyond that you cant do anything
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    My understanding is that UA does not have an oral bio availability problem as the rodents in the studies are utilizing it just fine, the problem lies in the amount we are taking (you just need a lot.)
    A study investigating the intestinal uptake of ursolic acid (from an ethanolic extract of Sambucus chinensis) found that a dose contributing 80mg/kg bodyweight ursolic acid had about an 0.6% oral bioavailability based on the compound's AUC.[12]

    Liao Q, et al. LC-MS determination and pharmacokinetic studies of ursolic acid in rat plasma after administration of the traditional chinese medicinal preparation Lu-Ying extract. Yakugaku Zasshi. (2005)


    A similar study on oleanolic acid (almost same structure as ursolic) showed same low bioavailability


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17163409

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post

    taking larger dosages orally doesnt seem to overcome the limitations of bioavailablity. Its likely that only so much can be absorbed orally at one time and beyond that you cant do anything
    What would you guess is the maximal amount (orally) I can take at once?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    What would you guess is the maximal amount (orally) I can take at once?
    you mean before you choke or throw up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    There is science based on mice and there is the real world. Trust me, the spray is way way better

    taking larger dosages orally doesnt seem to overcome the limitations of bioavailablity. Its likely that only so much can be absorbed orally at one time and beyond that you cant do anything
    This. Solubility presents very differently in humans vs mice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    There is science based on mice and there is the real world. Trust me, the spray is way way better

    taking larger dosages orally doesnt seem to overcome the limitations of bioavailablity. Its likely that only so much can be absorbed orally at one time and beyond that you cant do anything
    I dont understand why you and others keep saying such things when the science based on mice is the reason why everyone is interested in ursolic acid in the first place. Kind of silly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    A study investigating the intestinal uptake of ursolic acid (from an ethanolic extract of Sambucus chinensis) found that a dose contributing 80mg/kg bodyweight ursolic acid had about an 0.6% oral bioavailability based on the compound's AUC.[12]

    Liao Q, et al. LC-MS determination and pharmacokinetic studies of ursolic acid in rat plasma after administration of the traditional chinese medicinal preparation Lu-Ying extract. Yakugaku Zasshi. (2005)


    A similar study on oleanolic acid (almost same structure as ursolic) showed same low bioavailability


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17163409

    Why do you keep posting this? We don't really care about bioavailability when we saw anabolic results in the mice. It had poor bioavailability in mice too. They still got the gainz. We all know it has poor solubility.

    Let's not forget that the higher dose rat group also experience worse results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I dont understand why you and others keep saying such things when the science based on mice is the reason why everyone is interested in ursolic acid in the first place. Kind of silly...



    Why do you keep posting this? We don't really care about bioavailability when we saw anabolic results in the mice. It had poor bioavailability in mice too. They still got the gainz. We all know it has poor solubility.

    Let's not forget that the higher dose rat group also experience worse results.

    I am just trying to come up with explanations as to why my topical product is so much superior to the extract capsules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post

    Let's not forget that the higher dose rat group also experience worse results.
    My guess is that they reached an absorption maximum at 0.14 percent and that the higher dose group was a bit lower simply due to natural variation. IN other words, more did not equate to better results because they couldnt absorb anymore

    That is my opinion of course, and my guess. There is not enough data to make any conclusions of course
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post


    Why do you keep posting this? We don't really care about bioavailability when we saw anabolic results in the mice. It had poor bioavailability in mice too. They still got the gainz. We all know it has poor solubility. .

    Yes the mice got gains. Mice get gains from beta-ecdysterone too

    perhaps the mice would have gotten even better gains if they were administered ursolic by a way that got more into their system??
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    hmm...so did the Doc ever respond to the concerns over the whole hearth health / DNA damage issue? The DNA damage issue would be a pretty big red flag wouldn't you think? At least something that deserves more attention?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurghHardcore View Post
    hmm...so did the Doc ever respond to the concerns over the whole hearth health / DNA damage issue? The DNA damage issue would be a pretty big red flag wouldn't you think? At least something that deserves more attention?
    So all the studies where it promotes health in animals and protects against cancer take a back seat to an in-vitro study showing effects on DNA under lab conditions?

    I am not very concerned when the whole of the literature is taken into consideration. You have to take studies in context. am not concerned about vitamin C either despite this

    Can Vitamin C Damage DNA? - ScienceNOW
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    Fair enough Pat, was just curious cuz the doc said he'd get back and comment on the literature months ago and it just looks like the topic dropped off. I'm just really curious cuz I wanted to buy a two pack of the spray this Friday, then I read that and was hesitant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurghHardcore View Post
    Fair enough Pat, was just curious cuz the doc said he'd get back and comment on the literature months ago and it just looks like the topic dropped off. I'm just really curious cuz I wanted to buy a two pack of the spray this Friday, then I read that and was hesitant.

    ursolic acid is a very extensively studied compound. vitamin C is too of course. Anything that is so extensively studied will have some stuff on it which suggests some undesirable properties. That is why you have to take the WHOLE of the literature into consideration

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    ursolic acid is a very extensively studied compound. vitamin C is too of course. Anything that is so extensively studied will have some stuff on it which suggests some undesirable properties. That is why you have to take the WHOLE of the literature into consideration

    I could point out a flaw in the most beautiful girl in the world and if you dwell on that flaw and/or take it out of context then you can screw up a great opportunity to get laid

    LOL... Very well put PA.
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    I have read studies that show Ursolic Acid causes DNA damage, which has really led me away from trying it...can't post the links because I don't have enough posts, but if you google "ursolic acid dna damage" the study comes up as the first link titled

    "Ursolic acid causes DNA-damage, p53-mediated, mitochondria- and caspase-dependent human endothelial cell apoptosis, and accelerates atherosclerotic plaque formation in vivo"
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    Quote Originally Posted by matter2003 View Post
    I have read studies that show Ursolic Acid causes DNA damage, which has really led me away from trying it...can't post the links because I don't have enough posts, but if you google "ursolic acid dna damage" the study comes up as the first link titled

    "Ursolic acid causes DNA-damage, p53-mediated, mitochondria- and caspase-dependent human endothelial cell apoptosis, and accelerates atherosclerotic plaque formation in vivo"
    Go back a page and read the comments. What you said has already been covered
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