Us 'Old guys' and PH use

Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Exclamation Us 'Old guys' and PH use


    After talking with a friend yesterday, he suggested I was 'too old' to be taking prohormones and that I had 'missed my window'. I did some searching, but no luck. I turn 36 in a month or so. What's your guys take on us 'old guys'and the use of a PH? It seems to me that we could use the edge and benifits of a PH that someone in their mid 20s.

  2. New Member
    Chance1253's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    21
    Rep Power
    125
    Level
    4
    Lv. Percent
    34.92%

    You didn't miss your window. The only difference is that perhaps you might want to pay more attention to the impact on your lipid values, liver values, etc. Sounds like your "friend" wants your PH's.
  3. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Awesome. Thanks for the reply bro. Now to decide which to run first
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    BodyWizard's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,373
    Rep Power
    1312
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    94%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
    After talking with a friend yesterday, he suggested I was 'too old' to be taking prohormones and that I had 'missed my window'. I did some searching, but no luck. I turn 36 in a month or so. What's your guys take on us 'old guys'and the use of a PH? It seems to me that we could use the edge and benifits of a PH that someone in their mid 20s.
    Your friend's "argument" is bogus - too YOUNG for PH/AAS is a very real hurdle, and you're over it: you're IN the window *now* - your natural levels are beginning to tail off, though it will probably be months or years before you really start to notice unmistakably.

    IMO you're much more likely to get real value out of such things now than you would have 10 years ago. Doesn't mean you don't have to be smart be carefull, do your research & pay attention, but you're good at that stuff by now, right??
  5. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    I think the same, given that your test levels are lower you will get more of a boost, and I THINK but am not sure that it is easier to bring test up to a level of 300 than it is to bring it up to 800 after a cycle (as a 21 yo would have to)
  6. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    plus you have more maturity as well, and likely more $ to spend on support supps, and blood tests
  7. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    Your friend's "argument" is bogus - too YOUNG for PH/anabolic steroids is a very real hurdle, and you're over it: you're IN the window *now* - your natural levels are beginning to tail off, though it will probably be months or years before you really start to notice unmistakably.

    IMO you're much more likely to get real value out of such things now than you would have 10 years ago. Doesn't mean you don't have to be smart be carefull, do your research & pay attention, but you're good at that stuff by now, right??

    Absolutely. I've been debating this and researching it for awhile now. Just placed an order for some final pct stuff a bit ago. Thanks for the reply!
  8. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    plus you have more maturity as well, and likely more $ to spend on support supps, and blood tests
    Without a doubt. I love spending money on supps, too! Which would you guys suggest as a first cycle? I have the original AX PP, a PP clone, and Havoc. I've considered picking up a halo clone but I only have 2 bottle of tamox. cit. and dont want my PH's to outnumber my serms, especially now that I'm scared to buy in light of recent events.
  9. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    all goal dependent really, PP is a wet bulker, halo is a dry recomper/cutter/light bulker.

    How old are you? I turn 40 this year.
  10. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I turn 36 in a few weeks. I thinking I'm going to use the PP to just flat out bulk and around the new year use the havoc.
  11. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    pretty good idea. i'm still pondering what to use for my first cycle. I had planned an epistane / revolt cycle, but i'm less sure now. Might go with halodrol 50
  12. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    pretty good idea. i'm still pondering what to use for my first cycle. I had planned an epistane / revolt cycle, but i'm less sure now. Might go with halodrol 50
    I REALLY like what I've read about Halodrol. I think I might pick up a clone while I can and wait for things to die down before buying a serm. Can't wait for AI's Post Cycle therapy to hit this week as well. Told you like spending $$$ on supps!! :bb3:
  13. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    I've got over 300g of 50% resveratrol in the house I had already decided to do high dose resveratrol pre, during and post cycle. I think it may help avoid HTPA suppression to some extent actually. Couple that with a low suppression PH, and it should all work out. I think i may do that plus 6-oxo extreme (still have 1 bottle unopened) and a fadogia based test booster. Or dermacrine sustain
  14. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,820
    Rep Power
    1317971

    Something to consider:

    You may be at a point where your endogenous test is declining. Any substantial (or even insubstantial) inhibition may be more detrimental to your HPTA and recovery at this age. You may expedite andropause or at least have a more difficult time re-establishing your HPTA than a guy who is younger.

    With the above statement in mind consider that you will elevate your androgen levels quite significantly (relatively more significantly than someone younger using same androgen) by introducing exogenous hormones. If you are able to restore your HPTA back to baseline you will be quite a bit lower than someone younger. This may make retaining your new grown LBM a little harder than someone whose baseline is higher.

    Just some food for thought.
  15. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Something to consider:

    You may be at a point where your endogenous test is declining. Any substantial (or even insubstantial) inhibition may be more detrimental to your HPTA and recovery at this age. You may expedite andropause or at least have a more difficult time re-establishing your HPTA than a guy who is younger.

    With the above statement in mind consider that you will elevate your androgen levels quite significantly (relatively more significantly than someone younger using same androgen) by introducing exogenous hormones. If you are able to restore your HPTA back to baseline you will be quite a bit lower than someone younger. This may make retaining your new grown LBM a little harder than someone whose baseline is higher.

    Just some food for thought.
    B5150, have you seen documented evidence to that? I can't really find any. I have often wondered whether restoration of HPTA is easier given that you are only trying to get back to a relatively low level vs trying to get back to a high level. I would have assumed that shut down is shut down, and the lower starting point wouldn't make substancial difference as to how bad endogenous androgens would affect a person.
  16. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,820
    Rep Power
    1317971

    Anecdotal evidence only.

    Just something to consider.
  17. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Its a question i've wondered. Is it easier to refill the testosterone production "glass" when it started at 300, vs when it started at 1100... who knows
  18. Board Moderator
    Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,820
    Rep Power
    1317971

    My point is not entirely related to restoring. The additional point is; can that low value (even if restored) maintain that new LBM as easily as someone whose baseline was 500 or 600? Anecdotally, no.
  19. Elite Member
    yeahright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,368
    Rep Power
    10347
    Level
    52
    Lv. Percent
    98.39%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    I was going to make the same point as B5150. At an older age the body has a harder time recovering from damage to lipids and liver. Moreover, restoration of HPTA may be more sluggish.

    IMHO, these should be the primary concerns of taking these products as one gets older.

    Taking these into consideration, I'd only do lightly suppressive compounds for reasonable periods of time with solid gold PCT.
  20. Registered User
    milwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,460
    Rep Power
    1407
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    45.42%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard View Post
    Your friend's "argument" is bogus - too YOUNG for PH/anabolic steroids is a very real hurdle, and you're over it: you're IN the window *now* - your natural levels are beginning to tail off, though it will probably be months or years before you really start to notice unmistakably.

    IMO you're much more likely to get real value out of such things now than you would have 10 years ago. Doesn't mean you don't have to be smart be carefull, do your research & pay attention, but you're good at that stuff by now, right??
    I agree with this idea. The age factor should make PH/PS use more sensible in regards to physical "gain", as you're assisting yourself in testosterone at a time when natural T levels are declining.

    Taking care and being diligent about safety are key, of course. Since you're old and wise now, this won't be a prob (as BW has pointed out).
  21. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    ah. hmm true, that is just as depressing. you are talking for people beyond their genetic limits tho right? I'm still more in the phase of trying to reach my genetic limit
  22. Diamond Member
    T-Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    16,524
    Rep Power
    6519753
    Level
    100
    Lv. Percent
    80.47%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    My take on this subject


    Guys, for me the difference is really notable. I'm not sure whether it is age or not. I think it may be more from my hospitalization in '05. Seems that these days I can work just as hard or harder in the gym and as far as diet goes. The results of my efforts are less and less though. Its like night and day from when before I ended up in the hospital till after. Of course I have not done a cycle since than but I am just talking results from diet and exercise.
  23. New Member
    FX01's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    57
    Rep Power
    117
    Level
    7
    Lv. Percent
    0.24%

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Its a question i've wondered. Is it easier to refill the testosterone production "glass" when it started at 300, vs when it started at 1100... who knows
    I'm wondering the same thing as well.

    B5150, I agree, what do you think of lower dosed cycles(Cutting down on sides like BP etc.) and following up w/PCT of choice, and then other mild cycles to further compliment steady gains?
  24. New Member
    FX01's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    57
    Rep Power
    117
    Level
    7
    Lv. Percent
    0.24%

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    I was going to make the same point as B5150. At an older age the body has a harder time recovering from damage to lipids and liver. Moreover, restoration of HPTA may be more sluggish.

    IMHO, these should be the primary concerns of taking these products as one gets older.

    Taking these into consideration, I'd only do lightly suppressive compounds for reasonable periods of time with solid gold post cycle therapy.
    Sorry, I just read your post....
    FX
  25. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Wow! I really appreciate all the input and feedback from you guys. I agree with the solid gold PCT. Thats one reason I don't mind plopping down the $$$ for the things I need. I guess one way to find all of this out is to be the guinea pig, so to speak!
  26. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    Taking these into consideration, I'd only do lightly suppressive compounds for reasonable periods of time with <b>solid gold post cycle therapy</b>.
    What would you guys consider a solid gold PCT? I have Nolva and will be using Retain, Activate Extreme, and Hyperdrol, Cycle Support as staples. Should I add something else in your opinion?
  27. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    I was going to make the same point as B5150. At an older age the body has a harder time recovering from damage to lipids and liver. Moreover, restoration of HPTA may be more sluggish.

    IMHO, these should be the primary concerns of taking these products as one gets older.

    Taking these into consideration, I'd only do lightly suppressive compounds for reasonable periods of time with solid gold post cycle therapy.
    Lightly suppressive like furazadrol or hdrol solos?
  28. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    I think it's funny that we are talking about possibly being too old for a cycle because from what I see a lot of people around are too young to need a lot of the cycles that they do IMO.I mean there are loads of guys around who never give themselves enough time to develop naturally.
  29. New Member
    Nemesis RR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    45
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    131
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    67.32%

    I was 35 and did M1T, grew like a weed. BUT it shut my system down to 30 on a scale of 230-800. Regret doing it. Don't do anything unless you plan on using recovery meds as well. Not something I read in a book, I lived it and it SUCKED!
  30. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    given that i'm already a candidate for TRT, what kind of harm can suppression do?
  31. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    I was 35 and did M1T, grew like a weed. BUT it shut my system down to 30 on a scale of 230-800. Regret doing it. Don't do anything unless you plan on using recovery meds as well. Not something I read in a book, I lived it and it SUCKED!
    Damn. That sucks-I'm glad the worst i fooled with was Sdrol and between that and probably too much ATD I was screwed up for a good while as far as libido.Glad I used Nolva too cause at the time not everyone knew about gyno from Sdrol.
  32. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    given that i'm already a candidate for TRT, what kind of harm can suppression do?
    I hope when I'm 40 I can do hrt , maybe I'll have the money then and insurance now sux even at 3500/yr. Oh well. Do insurances cover hrt? BTW if you wanna take out your slong for anything more than taking a piss, being really suppressed won't matter.
  33. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by cardiffgiant View Post
    I hope when I'm 40 I can do hrt , maybe I'll have the money then and insurance now sux even at 3500/yr. Oh well. Do insurances cover hrt? BTW if you wanna take out your slong for anything more than taking a piss, being really suppressed won't matter.
    yeah, I was partially being facetious. I'm not sure what my insurance would conver, its been a few years since my last testosterone test too
  34. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    I figured you were playing. Hey are you gonna do a cycle now or what?Just confused by different posts.
  35. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    I got picked to do an x-factor log, so i have to put it off till after that. So that means december now.... I'm also back to not entirely sure of which designer to run now, it will depend on how lean I am by then.
  36. New Member
    Nemesis RR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    45
    Posts
    84
    Rep Power
    131
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    67.32%

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    given that i'm already a candidate for TRT, what kind of harm can suppression do?
    If you are a candidate for TRT then just go on that. You will get more out of that than any PH use. Once on the TRT you can always add PH and see if you get any added benefit.
  37. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I got picked to do an x-factor log, so i have to put it off till after that. So that means december now.... I'm also back to not entirely sure of which designer to run now, it will depend on how lean I am by then.
    Why fool with that stuff, especiallly after doing something healthy-mega fish oils.I get sore enough from workouts I don't need something to make that worse-I would die.And for what? for me I bet nothing. If anything I was thinking of eventually tring high dosed HMB. I really think it helped me way back when cause recovery is always the issue for me. i just push hard in workouts,especially when highly stimulated, which is most of the time.BCAAs is what I'm trying now plus some high quality WPI and WPI,egg,Micellar casein blend.
  38. New Member
    cardiffgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Age
    43
    Posts
    175
    Rep Power
    176
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    29.68%

    Hey easy I also meant to ask you why you don't like MD mag? Or am I mistaken?
  39. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,888
    Rep Power
    852764
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    49.84%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    I figure 2 months on x-factor to try it, then back onto fish oils The university studies look good for it as a lean muscle gain/recomper, and its still healthier than any of the designers, at least in terms of liver + lipids.

    Its not really MD particular I don't like so much, its the magazines in general. They are so littered with "4 page special reports" that are ads, and so filled with ultra hype that it irritates me. Basically it ruins my journalistic trust of them - are they potentially ripping into AA because molecular nutrition signed a huge advertising deal with another magazine? its possible, as their ethics are questionable. Same reason why Anabolic xtreme irritated me with superdrol ng. Just a chip out of their integrity.
  40. Senior Member
    BoneDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,382
    Rep Power
    824286
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    28.28%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Looks like i'm gonna be the guinea pig for you guys I'm pre-loading with Hawthorn/Milk thisltle now and will be starting the PP a week from Monday. Picked up some Alpha Drive and some Resveratrol to add to my PCT. Gonna shoot for around 4000 calories or slightly more while on. Do PCT, wait a month, then try a recomp/cut cycle with Havoc. :bb:
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Big Brother is on to us guys and gals
    By buffb2 in forum News and Articles
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-18-2005, 05:11 PM
  2. Oldest transdermal PH used and still effective
    By mauibuilt in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-12-2004, 10:56 AM
  3. Ph cycle and ZMA use
    By IHateGymMorons in forum Supplements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-30-2004, 08:17 PM
  4. PH use and long term suppression
    By badbart in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-26-2004, 12:14 PM
  5. PH use and cholesterol ????
    By SCORPIO in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-25-2003, 08:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in