TRT, can I take a break doing a PCT

[hogan45]

I am 48 years old now and doing TRT for a little more than a year now. Back then my T level was 302, so my doctor put me on the standard on Test Cyp 200mg every two weeks. It has helped with everything that it was intended for (inability to concentrate, moods, focus and libido/erections).

But I believe that the "boys" are shrinking and am worried about it causing my body to further discontinue whatever T production it had been doing on its own. For these reasons, I was wondering if I should consider taking a break using a PCT regiment, then resume TRT after 2 moths or so.

Background info: I am 6'2", 228 lbs and still fairly solid (47" chest, 18" biceps, 17.5" neck) with a small amount of fat around the mid-section (36" waist). I have been working out since I was 17 years old (free weights, machines, body-weight and most recently P90X). And while I had noticed that workouts were getting more difficult with age (no big revelation there), my TRT was/is not intended for growth/size. Until the doctor-prescribed Test Cyp I have never taken anything other than vitamins, protein and aminos (so I know almost nothing about Rx PCT stuff {is "Gear" the correct term?})

Am I being a hypochondriac (about having the "boys" grow smaller in my sac, and shutting down my body's own T production), or is taking a month or two off a wise idea?

If anyone suggests a PCT regiment, please write like you are speaking to a complete newbie (because from a PCT perspective, you are). I would like full names of PCT items, and as much info as possible (dosage, when to take, etc...). One last thing, since my insurance doesn't cover my TRT, I have found a "gear" site that I get my Test Cyp from (for far less than $$$ my local pharmacy), and as a "gear" site, they probably also sell anything that I would need to use for a TRT-break type of PCT. So I would not "need" any recommendations about where to purchase, but surely would not object to suggestions.

 

[blund70]

I am 48 years old now and doing TRT for a little more than a year now. Back then my T level was 302, so my doctor put me on the standard on Test Cyp 200mg every two weeks. It has helped with everything that it was intended for (inability to concentrate, moods, focus and libido/erections).

But I believe that the "boys" are shrinking and am worried about it causing my body to further discontinue whatever T production it had been doing on its own. For these reasons, I was wondering if I should consider taking a break using a PCT regiment, then resume TRT after 2 moths or so.

Background info: I am 6'2", 228 lbs and still fairly solid (47" chest, 18" biceps, 17.5" neck) with a small amount of fat around the mid-section (36" waist). I have been working out since I was 17 years old (free weights, machines, body-weight and most recently P90X). And while I had noticed that workouts were getting more difficult with age (no big revelation there), my TRT was/is not intended for growth/size. Until the doctor-prescribed Test Cyp I have never taken anything other than vitamins, protein and aminos (so I know almost nothing about Rx PCT stuff {is "Gear" the correct term?})

Am I being a hypochondriac (about having the "boys" grow smaller in my sac, and shutting down my body's own T production), or is taking a month or two off a wise idea?

If anyone suggests a PCT regiment, please write like you are speaking to a complete newbie (because from a PCT perspective, you are). I would like full names of PCT items, and as much info as possible (dosage, when to take, etc...). One last thing, since my insurance doesn't cover my TRT, I have found a "gear" site that I get my Test Cyp from (for far less than $$$ my local pharmacy), and as a "gear" site, they probably also sell anything that I would need to use for a TRT-break type of PCT. So I would not "need" any recommendations about where to purchase, but surely would not object to suggestions.

I wish I could give you advise because it appears this forum lacks that.

 

[B5150]

TRT is supposed to be for life. There is no PCT.

Additionally, 200mg/E2W is a poor protocol. You would be better off using 100mg/w or better yet 50mg/E3-4days. You levels are fluctuating a lot the way you are using it now.

After a year or more you are shutdown and producing not endogenous testosterone. As a result of this your testicle have atrophied. Aside from that phobia why would you want or need to come off?

When you come off you will have a hard time restarting your HPTA and even when you do you will be back at the low or lower levels you were before and experience those same symptoms.

 

[w8lifter]

If you are worried about your testicles shrinking consider having your doctor prescribed HCG; many use it along with TRT. It mimics LH, which is what your pituitary gland secretes to promote testosterone production in your testicles.
Also agree that you should definitely inject 100 mg of testosterone every week.
Another option is to go off of TRT completely and take Clomid, or clomiphene citrate. Clomid stimulates your pituitary to secrete its own natural LH, where as HCG mimics LH directly.
Ask your doctor about these two restart methods; HCG or Clomid.

 

[w8lifter]

The following link explains a lot

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/trt_protocol_for_injections

 

[kisaj]

I see 2 options. Go on TRT because you need it and stay on it, or if there is question whether you need it and want to try and jump start your system, try coming off and go the Clomid route. If you plan to stay on TRT, I would not try to run PCT for a short period and then go right back on. There is point.

 

[vassille]

I am 48 years old now and doing TRT for a little more than a year now. Back then my T level was 302, so my doctor put me on the standard on Test Cyp 200mg every two weeks. It has helped with everything that it was intended for (inability to concentrate, moods, focus and libido/erections).

But I believe that the "boys" are shrinking and am worried about it causing my body to further discontinue whatever T production it had been doing on its own. For these reasons, I was wondering if I should consider taking a break using a PCT regiment, then resume TRT after 2 moths or so.

Background info: I am 6'2", 228 lbs and still fairly solid (47" chest, 18" biceps, 17.5" neck) with a small amount of fat around the mid-section (36" waist). I have been working out since I was 17 years old (free weights, machines, body-weight and most recently P90X). And while I had noticed that workouts were getting more difficult with age (no big revelation there), my TRT was/is not intended for growth/size. Until the doctor-prescribed Test Cyp I have never taken anything other than vitamins, protein and aminos (so I know almost nothing about Rx PCT stuff {is "Gear" the correct term?})

Am I being a hypochondriac (about having the "boys" grow smaller in my sac, and shutting down my body's own T production), or is taking a month or two off a wise idea?

If anyone suggests a PCT regiment, please write like you are speaking to a complete newbie (because from a PCT perspective, you are). I would like full names of PCT items, and as much info as possible (dosage, when to take, etc...). One last thing, since my insurance doesn't cover my TRT, I have found a "gear" site that I get my Test Cyp from (for far less than $$$ my local pharmacy), and as a "gear" site, they probably also sell anything that I would need to use for a TRT-break type of PCT. So I would not "need" any recommendations about where to purchase, but surely would not object to suggestions.

no big deal coming off TRT once in a while, I do it now and then. I personally get tired of injectible test and I need a break from it, I really dont care about the size of the nuts anymore like you do but wherever floats your boat I guess. I actually feel better off the test but that's just my crazy self

Before we go any further do you have any reason to believe your nuts were the cause of low test initially or was a pituitary problem or you dont know?

 

[threeFs]

I love these guys!

 

[vassille]

I love these guys!

Hey brotha how have you been?
How did you recover from that cycle you were doing?

 

[hogan45]

Unfortunately I have no idea what initially caused the low T

 

[grappler22]

Noy sure if your still looking for some help... Def get some HCG and use it sub q the day before you inject your test... If u can do it for 2 days before your injection even better.. the HCG should work rather quickly and will def help combat the atrophy... injecting every two weeks is a very poor idea.. I know the FDA recommends every two weeks but that is just terrible. your hormones/body will have a difficult time adjusting to that.. once a week will give you better blood levels and keep you feeling a little more "even".

 

[rixrix]

Crisler (fancy TRT doc)'s protocol for HCG is 250iu 2 days before and 250iu one day before. HCG isn't as easy to get as liquid clomid/nolva but can be found with a little work.

 

[LMuscle]

Crisler (fancy TRT doc)'s protocol for HCG is 250iu 2 days before and 250iu one day before. HCG isn't as easy to get as liquid clomid/nolva but can be found with a little work.

If research nolva and Clomid are so easy to obtain, why is it impossible to find research HCG? I know it's not created in a lab, but still.

 

[aggression23]

Would a SERM other than Clomid, such as Torem, work in the same way to stimulate the pituitary? Newbie question, I'm sure, but everyone above mentioned Clomid rather than just saying SERM. Reasoning?

 

[Piston Honda]

Would a SERM other than Clomid, such as Torem, work in the same way to stimulate the pituitary? Newbie question, I'm sure, but everyone above mentioned Clomid rather than just saying SERM. Reasoning?

Clomid is better for the HPTA, Nolva for gyno issues. To my understanding, Torem helps with both to a degree. If all you're looking for is the jumpstart, might as well stick with the Clomid.

 

[Piston Honda]

btw, just turned 35 on Saturday so now I feel I can post in this section! Lol

 

[aggression23]

Would you suggest a clomid-nolva combo for gyno and restart issues? If so, what would be the protocol? Also, my birthday was yesterday! Although I'm under 35 (don't tell). Happy belated birthday.

 

[Piston Honda]

Would you suggest a clomid-nolva combo for gyno and restart issues? If so, what would be the protocol? Also, my birthday was yesterday! Although I'm under 35 (don't tell). Happy belated birthday.

Id suggest whatever your doc recommends! Lol. The whole idea of TRT gives me the willies...the eod protocol for Clomid is all id consider running, but thankfully my levels are all good.

 

[aggression23]

you are one of the lucky ones

 

[Piston Honda]

you are one of the lucky ones

Clean living lol

 

[bigguyn10ec]

Hello guys. Been a while Since I have posted but feel I should here.

Been lifting for a long time, Never took a PH or AAS before and pretty clueless like yourself.

Anyway about 6 months ago I started feeling ..off. I went and was checked. My test came back at 160!. Yea really low.

He put me on Test cyp 2.5 ml a week for one month. Got checked on that at one month. Test was 438.
I stayed on that for one more month.
I too became worried about the SIZE and fertility issues so he
Dropped dose to 1 ml a week and 2 dose a week of .70 ml of HCG . Alternating days.

HCG on Sunday , Test on Wed, HCG on Friday.
Due to price I had to stop this run although It was my fav!.

I was then placed on only Test 1ml a week because my Estrogen was touch high so I also got 4 dose ( one a week ) of Arimedex ( sp? )

Alright so now After that month I was tested and back to normal ranges, Test 480, Estrogen below 40.

So Then I thought I would try something. I got some over the counter AI. ANACETIN 99 .

Anyway I feel It was working well. The jewels dropped back down after a week. Joint pain a touch more. I could feel my test was moving up. I looked leaner every morning.

So I go back in last week for blood work and refill of TEST... Test came back at over 1000!!! But my Estrogen was over 70+. SO.. Now I am thinking.. WHAT the foo did I find?

He backed me down on test to .75 ml a week and arimedex twice a week.


I do agree with taking the test at least once a week.

Any more info you can Pm, me.

 

[threeFs]

Clomid is better for the HPTA, Nolva for gyno issues. To my understanding, Torem helps with both to a degree. If all you're looking for is the jumpstart, might as well stick with the Clomid.

Torem is a nolva derivative

 

[aggression23]

So Torem would be just as effective for dealing with gyno?

 

[thegodfather]

Hello guys. Been a while Since I have posted but feel I should here.

Been lifting for a long time, Never took a PH or AAS before and pretty clueless like yourself.

Anyway about 6 months ago I started feeling ..off. I went and was checked. My test came back at 160!. Yea really low.

He put me on Test cyp 2.5 ml a week for one month. Got checked on that at one month. Test was 438.
I stayed on that for one more month.
I too became worried about the SIZE and fertility issues so he
Dropped dose to 1 ml a week and 2 dose a week of .70 ml of HCG . Alternating days.

HCG on Sunday , Test on Wed, HCG on Friday.
Due to price I had to stop this run although It was my fav!.

I was then placed on only Test 1ml a week because my Estrogen was touch high so I also got 4 dose ( one a week ) of Arimedex ( sp? )

Alright so now After that month I was tested and back to normal ranges, Test 480, Estrogen below 40.

So Then I thought I would try something. I got some over the counter AI. ANACETIN 99 .

Anyway I feel It was working well. The jewels dropped back down after a week. Joint pain a touch more. I could feel my test was moving up. I looked leaner every morning.

So I go back in last week for blood work and refill of TEST... Test came back at over 1000!!! But my Estrogen was over 70+. SO.. Now I am thinking.. WHAT the foo did I find?

He backed me down on test to .75 ml a week and arimedex twice a week.


I do agree with taking the test at least once a week.

Any more info you can Pm, me.

You were put on 2.5 ml a week?? That's a 500mg cycle.

 

[bigguyn10ec]

You were put on 2.5 ml a week?? That's a 500mg cycle.

That is what he put me on. But as you can see It still did not give me a huge test level.. Yes It did compared to where I started, but Honestly I did not feel any better on that vs 1ml a week.

 

[thegodfather]

That is what he put me on. But as you can see It still did not give me a huge test level.. Yes It did compared to where I started, but Honestly I did not feel any better on that vs 1ml a week.

That should have you up at like 2500-3000, way off the chart. You must be a freak of nature. lol

 

[bigguyn10ec]

That should have you up at like 2500-3000, way off the chart. You must be a freak of nature. lol

I take that as a compliment? lol

 

[rixrix]

If research nolva and Clomid are so easy to obtain, why is it impossible to find research HCG? I know it's not created in a lab, but still.

Because HCG is a controlled substance in some states. California, and North Carolina, for example.
And yes, most HCG is now created in a lab. The days of filtering preggo women's urine are mostly over.

 

[kisaj]

That should have you up at like 2500-3000, way off the chart. You must be a freak of nature. lol

There has to be a reason that he is eating up test like that. I would question whether this is really the answer and be searching out other reasons with help from the doc. That is not normal at all to take that much test and have test levels that low. 60mg keeps me hovering around 800-900 levels a few days out.

 

[threeFs]

Could possibly be high SHBG?

 

[kisaj]

That shouldn't affect total test like that.

 

[bigguyn10ec]

There has to be a reason that he is eating up test like that. I would question whether this is really the answer and be searching out other reasons with help from the doc. That is not normal at all to take that much test and have test levels that low. 60mg keeps me hovering around 800-900 levels a few days out.

Yes but what was your level before adding the test?

I was at 160 something. SO for me to be up around 400- 500 that is a big jump. But now at 1000. So I have no idea. lol.

 

[kisaj]

Well, I've been on TRT for almost 3 years now, but it was averaging 210-260 (250-1150 scale) for the year I was testing and attempting to bring up before going on TRT.

In any case, 500mg of test is a cycle and nowhere close to TRT.. You certainly do not want to be taking that for the rest of your life, so why not find out what is really wrong instead of masking it with test?

 

[bigguyn10ec]

Well, I've been on TRT for almost 3 years now, but it was averaging 210-260 (250-1150 scale) for the year I was testing and attempting to bring up before going on TRT.

In any case, 500mg of test is a cycle and nowhere close to TRT.. You certainly do not want to be taking that for the rest of your life, so why not find out what is really wrong instead of masking it with test?

True I was actually thinking after this week to take a break and run some DAA and keep level monitored to see what happens.

 

[kisaj]

Reading your posts, it sounds like you have been on TRT for 6 months. You are shut down and need to run a proper PCT and work with your doc to try to get normal. He may tell you to stop taking any test for a month and you'll feel like ****, but then he may want to start a Clomid protocol if this isn't really your issue. Don't just stop all together and plan to take DAA with any success.

 

[bigguyn10ec]

Reading your posts, it sounds like you have been on TRT for 6 months. You are shut down and need to run a proper PCT and work with your doc to try to get normal. He may tell you to stop taking any test for a month and you'll feel like ****, but then he may want to start a Clomid protocol if this isn't really your issue. Don't just stop all together and plan to take DAA with any success.

\
Is clomid a pill? Or shot? I am pretty clueless on those things.

 

[kisaj]

It's a pill. Until recently, docs were clueless on trying this approach before TRT, but it seems more are becoming aware. It isn't for everyone and I've only seen it work once with someone I know, but it is worth a shot to "kickstart" your natural production before being tied into TRT.

 

[bigguyn10ec]

It's a pill. Until recently, docs were clueless on trying this approach before TRT, but it seems more are becoming aware. It isn't for everyone and I've only seen it work once with someone I know, but it is worth a shot to "kickstart" your natural production before being tied into TRT.

Just the little bit he had my on with HCG. I could tell that would work as well. Or at least I feel it will ,

As of now I am On .75ml of test a week and 2 times a week a Half dose or arimedex.

Being I am thinking of trying to chill out on this for a month or two here and there what would you suggest I suggest to him?

 

[jinxie]

I am 48 years old now and doing TRT for a little more than a year now. Back then my T level was 302, so my doctor put me on the standard on Test Cyp 200mg every two weeks. It has helped with everything that it was intended for (inability to concentrate, moods, focus and libido/erections).

But I believe that the "boys" are shrinking and am worried about it causing my body to further discontinue whatever T production it had been doing on its own. For these reasons, I was wondering if I should consider taking a break using a PCT regiment, then resume TRT after 2 moths or so.

Background info: I am 6'2", 228 lbs and still fairly solid (47" chest, 18" biceps, 17.5" neck) with a small amount of fat around the mid-section (36" waist). I have been working out since I was 17 years old (free weights, machines, body-weight and most recently P90X). And while I had noticed that workouts were getting more difficult with age (no big revelation there), my TRT was/is not intended for growth/size. Until the doctor-prescribed Test Cyp I have never taken anything other than vitamins, protein and aminos (so I know almost nothing about Rx PCT stuff {is "Gear" the correct term?})

Am I being a hypochondriac (about having the "boys" grow smaller in my sac, and shutting down my body's own T production), or is taking a month or two off a wise idea?

If anyone suggests a PCT regiment, please write like you are speaking to a complete newbie (because from a PCT perspective, you are). I would like full names of PCT items, and as much info as possible (dosage, when to take, etc...). One last thing, since my insurance doesn't cover my TRT, I have found a "gear" site that I get my Test Cyp from (for far less than $$$ my local pharmacy), and as a "gear" site, they probably also sell anything that I would need to use for a TRT-break type of PCT. So I would not "need" any recommendations about where to purchase, but surely would not object to suggestions.

Unless you want to have kids at 50+, there is no reason to come off. If you want your testicles plumper, run hCG at 250 ius BIW. But it's purely for aesthetics IMO. I am on TRT, and I come on and off hCG periodically, but never off TRT. You could certainly do a PCT w/ clomid, but you are going to feel crappy and emotional, and likely lose some muscle and tone as you are shut down. I'd advise against it.

 

[jinxie]

That is what he put me on. But as you can see It still did not give me a huge test level.. Yes It did compared to where I started, but Honestly I did not feel any better on that vs 1ml a week.

Wait a second, how many mgs per ML. No one knows how much you test you are taking until you report that.

 

[sysadmn]

Unless you want to have kids at 50+, there is no reason to come off. If you want your testicles plumper, run hCG at 250 ius BIW. But it's purely for aesthetics IMO. I am on TRT, and I come on and off hCG periodically, but never off TRT. You could certainly do a PCT w/ clomid, but you are going to feel crappy and emotional, and likely lose some muscle and tone as you are shut down. I'd advise against it.

what jinxie said, unless you're trying to use Clomid to restart your T production. If you're going that route, have an endo prescribe it and monitor you. At our age, why go through that unless your new young wife wants kids?

 

[skinnybones]

Unfortunately I have no idea what initially caused the low T

Alcohol abuse and heavy metal deposits in the body have been known to cause low test or hypo male gonadism.

 

[firefighter2032]

I've been on TRT for a few years now. I used to have to take arimidex to help combat the estrogen. However, for whatever reason, once I switched from IM injections to sub-q (in the belly), my estrogen stayed steady where it should be without any anti-estrogen assistance.

I know everyone thinks there doctor is the best but just offering my .02 cents, Dr. Crisler in Lansing, MI is very good. He has a lot of information on his website if you want to do some reading.

Been awhile since I've been around here so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to put links so for now just google his name and his page should come up.

He's a good guy and also has his own forum if you have further questions.

 

[skinnybones]

I'm on TRT as well , for about a year now& the advice that I've been given here is that no pct is needed if your on TRT.
As far as an AI I like to run them even tho I'm on a steady dose of test.

 

[skinnybones]

TRT is supposed to be for life. There is no PCT.

Additionally, 200mg/E2W is a poor protocol. You would be better off using 100mg/w or better yet 50mg/E3-4days. You levels are fluctuating a lot the way you are using it now.

After a year or more you are shutdown and producing not endogenous testosterone. As a result of this your testicle have atrophied. Aside from that phobia why would you want or need to come off?

When you come off you will have a hard time restarting your HPTA and even when you do you will be back at the low or lower levels you were before and experience those same symptoms.

Thank you! I've been reading threads about low T & I myself am in my 3rd week of being off a PH & I'm on TRT. Been on TRT for over a year. Advice I've gotten on AM is that people on TRT do not need to run a PCT as long as they stay on schedule with their test doses. So why are there so many threads with people running PCTs & useing serms while on TRT?
Help me understand.

 

[thegodfather]

Thank you! I've been reading threads about low T & I myself am in my 3rd week of being off a PH & I'm on TRT. Been on TRT for over a year. Advice I've gotten on AM is that people on TRT do not need to run a PCT as long as they stay on schedule with their test doses. So why are there so many threads with people running PCTs & useing serms while on TRT? Help me understand.

You still need to do general recovery from altered lipids, liver profiles, blood pressure, etc. Jumpstarting your endogenous test production however is not a concern.

 

[skinnybones]

You still need to do general recovery from altered lipids, liver profiles, blood pressure, etc. Jumpstarting your endogenous test production however is not a concern.

Ok, cool I understand & do practice that protocol of a pct ...(liver , Blood pressure,joints). & the jump start of the test is taken care of by the TRT, so what's missing from a PCT in a TRT person,that's in a normal persons PCT?

 

[kisaj]

There is no "jump start" of test on TRT. If you are on TRT, it is because you are not capable of producing test and require exogenous test to get into normal levels. When you stop that, you drop back to where you were or lower. A PCT is going to serve no purpose as you are not going to be able to have your body build back to normal.