T Levels

[sky747]

Hi Folks
Can you tell me what you think of the T levels below? These are for a 36 y/o male. 321 Total seems low to me but Dr says is normal, same for the rest. obviously i don't know up from down regarding the #s below. Thanks
Mike

Test	Levels
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE	321.8
ALBUMIN	4.8
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN	29
TESTOSTERONE, FREE, MALE >20 YRS	65
LH	5.3
FSH	9.83
TSH	1.03

 

[BJE]

Yes, 321 is low. A thirty six year old man should have a testosterone level more in the range of 670. 321 is only considered normal because it is normal for men to have testosterone that low, but these are very old men. The lab ranges are for all men, not age adjusted. Younger men and any man who wants to be healthy should have a level in at least the upper third of the range.

 

[sky747]

Thanks BJE

 

[vassille]

Hi Folks
Can you tell me what you think of the T levels below? These are for a 36 y/o male. 321 Total seems low to me but Dr says is normal, same for the rest. obviously i don't know up from down regarding the #s below. Thanks
Mike

Test	Levels
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE	321.8
ALBUMIN	4.8
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN	29
TESTOSTERONE, FREE, MALE >20 YRS	65
LH	5.3
FSH	9.83
TSH	1.03

It's low.
Good thing is that SHBG is low too and not like 50 or higher. Bad thing, free test is low but that's due to low test production and not because it binds to SHBG.
Check your estrogen. LH seems low

 

[flex000]

321 is definitely low for your age. Unfortunately most doctors along with insurance companies only treat the numbers and if you're not what they consider low, (varies by lab) they tend to give you anti depressants. You can be above their lower level and still feel like crap! Sometimes you have to look to an anti aging clinic for treatment and/or pay out of pocket.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Good responses in here, guys.

 

[BrazilianDoc]

Yes but don´t forget that the number by itself is the only thing to consider.
I have patients with this age and this T level with excelente muscle mass and libido .
There is no way of measurement of androgen receptor activity . Some have more other less.

 

[vassille]

321 is low regardless unless you are a girl

 

[kisaj]

How do you feel?

I was running around with 300 levels for a long time before knowing TRT was an option. I was keeping all my muscle mass (in part, I believe, due to genetics), but slept terrible, was grouchy, low energy, no libido, etc.. and assumed it was just normal for guys in their late 30s. It wasn't until I just couldn't take it anymore and found I was at 219 that I started down the path of testing and analysis of what may be going on.

 

[jalincoln]

Great Article fellas. Im 36 also and am having very simular problems. Im actually getting ready to have my levels tested next week.

 

[threeFs]

How do you feel?

I was running around with 300 levels for a long time before knowing TRT was an option. I was keeping all my muscle mass (in part, I believe, due to genetics), but slept terrible, was grouchy, low energy, no libido, etc.. and assumed it was just normal for guys in their late 30s. It wasn't until I just couldn't take it anymore and found I was at 219 that I started down the path of testing and analysis of what may be going on.

Yep, same here. Haven't slept through the night in years until TRT. I just thought that's life. Just getting old and lazy. Little did I know how much TrT would help me. I feel great nowadays and sleep through and much deeper.

 

[usealittle]

You have 2 choices... Either try and fix it with hcg shots and clomid or get a doctor that will give you a script. Mine was 218 and it's been that way for a long time, been putting it off.

If your doc will not give you a script if you wan it, find one that will.

 

[flex000]

Damn, 218 bro? That's low at all labs. Not sure how you can function at all. Low test can make you susceptible to cardiovascular issues and diabetes along with various other issues so don't put it off too long. Generally though, doctors say if you feel good and have no symptoms, treatment isn't needed.

 

[usealittle]

Damn, 218 bro? That's low at all labs. Not sure how you can function at all. Low test can make you susceptible to cardiovascular issues and diabetes along with various other issues so don't put it off too long. Generally though, doctors say if you feel good and have no symptoms, treatment isn't needed.

even at that level i could make it work (not very often) but would make up reasons why i couldnt, like iv got gas or dont feel good.... you know all the things women say to us so they dont have to.

i do have a script now... got 200mg wk from my doc, he asked if i wanted 250. like a dumb add i said no.

 

[kisaj]

i do have a script now... got 200mg wk from my doc, he asked if i wanted 250. like a dumb add i said no.

I feel like there should be a sticky for people that are new to TRT and think more is better.

 

[usealittle]

I feel like there should be a sticky for people that are new to TRT and think more is better.

im not saying more is better... im sayin if i got a script for 250 and i only use say 150 or 200 i would be getting ahead every wk. so when i want to cycle up i can use pharm grade cyp over the UGL stuff. i get a 10ml vail and using less then im scripted will get me a new bottle faster, get it. thats the way im seeing it. not more is better.

as my name states i usealittle not a lot.

 

[kisaj]

ah, my mistake. I didn't read it that you were getting to self inject. Then yeah, that would be cool if you wanted to run a higher cycle for awhile. I am already 3 vials up that haven't been touched because I only run 100 e6d.

 

[BJE]

im not saying more is better... im sayin if i got a script for 250 and i only use say 150 or 200 i would be getting ahead every wk. so when i want to cycle up i can use pharm grade cyp over the UGL stuff. i get a 10ml vail and using less then im scripted will get me a new bottle faster, get it. thats the way im seeing it. not more is better.

as my name states i usealittle not a lot.

ah, my mistake. I didn't read it that you were getting to self inject. Then yeah, that would be cool if you wanted to run a higher cycle for awhile. I am already 3 vials up that haven't been touched because I only run 100 e6d.

I know this is off the original topic, but I am in a similar situation. I started test cyp about three months ago. My doctor prescribed for me 100mg testosterone cypionate per week and I am self injecting. At this dose a vial lasts for about twenty weeks. My insurance will allow only three months of a drug at a time. Since you can't divide a vial it paid for a vial and charged me three copays ($30) for the vial. Well the three months was about up and there was no refill on my prescription so I asked the pharmacy to contact my doctors office to ask for a refill. Well the doctor wrote a new prescription for four vials for in the next six months. I got one and paid the three copays again. Insurance will only pay for one more vial which to them would complete my six months worth. I can however buy the other two vial out of pocket.

The question is since at the dose I am at four vials will last me about 80 weeks and I still have a few more weeks left of my first vial, do I just get the two vials which is still more than enough, do I get all the vials and stock pile it, or do I get the vials and run a cycle sometime. I will have nearly three extra 10ml vials of the 200mg/ml test cyp. That is something I have never done, and I can't say I would know what to do.

 

[usealittle]

i pay $8 for 10ml with in insurance....

 

[pcn]

I know this is off the original topic, but I am in a similar situation. I started test cyp about three months ago. My doctor prescribed for me 100mg testosterone cypionate per week and I am self injecting. At this dose a vial lasts for about twenty weeks. My insurance will allow only three months of a drug at a time. Since you can't divide a vial it paid for a vial and charged me three copays ($30) for the vial. Well the three months was about up and there was no refill on my prescription so I asked the pharmacy to contact my doctors office to ask for a refill. Well the doctor wrote a new prescription for four vials for in the next six months. I got one and paid the three copays again. Insurance will only pay for one more vial which to them would complete my six months worth. I can however buy the other two vial out of pocket.

The question is since at the dose I am at four vials will last me about 80 weeks and I still have a few more weeks left of my first vial, do I just get the two vials which is still more than enough, do I get all the vials and stock pile it, or do I get the vials and run a cycle sometime. I will have nearly three extra 10ml vials of the 200mg/ml test cyp. That is something I have never done, and I can't say I would know what to do.

You're "supposed" to throw away an opened vial after 30 days, which is why insurance follows allows you to get a new one every month. Buy one a month and put them away. Even if you never run a cycle, what if your insurance changes drastically (Obamacare...?) and you arent covered or the price jumps. Out of pocket for me is about $85, vs $10 on a drug card. The expiration on my bottles is several years in the future, so I look at it as cheap insurance against an very unknown future.

 

[BJE]

You're "supposed" to throw away an opened vial after 30 days, which is why insurance follows allows you to get a new one every month. Buy one a month and put them away. Even if you never run a cycle, what if your insurance changes drastically (Obamacare...?) and you arent covered or the price jumps. Out of pocket for me is about $85, vs $10 on a drug card. The expiration on my bottles is several years in the future, so I look at it as cheap insurance against an very unknown future.

My insurance considers one vial to be a three month supply. It would not allow one vial per month. My pharmacy told me that the vial would not go bad.

 

[vassille]

insurance pays based on the weekly dosage a person uses as per perscription but a doc can prescribe more than that at a time like 6 months worth. However, if a doc notices what you doing will cut you off.
Moral of the story is to not abuse the system because it ****s it up for the rest of the ppl who really needs these meds. I really dont understand why you want to game the system for few bottles of test....then I see people complain about dick doctors not wanting to give out test scripts. Be careful someone keeps track of these scripts guys it's a scheduled drug... it is not worth it.
You want to cycle go underground get 10 bottles of test and have at it!

 

[kisaj]

You're "supposed" to throw away an opened vial after 30 days, which is why insurance follows allows you to get a new one every month. Buy one a month and put them away. Even if you never run a cycle, what if your insurance changes drastically (Obamacare...?) and you arent covered or the price jumps. Out of pocket for me is about $85, vs $10 on a drug card. The expiration on my bottles is several years in the future, so I look at it as cheap insurance against an very unknown future.

Somebody lied to you.

 

[pcn]

Somebody lied to you.

About what?

 

[vassille]

About what?

Throwing out the bottle after 30 days. That's for HCG not test. Anything in BAC water is good for about 1 month. Maybe that's what you meant.

 

[pcn]

Throwing out the bottle after 30 days. That's for HCG not test. Anything in BAC water is good for about 1 month. Maybe that's what you meant.

Really? I thought that was fairly widely known. Do a search on "beyond use date". I believe it's pretty standard practice in hospitals, maybe even an FDA requirement to discard a certain time after first penetrating the seal. A quick search can find these:

http://www.usp797.org/QA-E5.htm
http://www.apic.org/Resource_/TinyMceFileManager/Position_Statements/AJIC_Safe_Injection0310.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/injectionsafety/providers/provider_faqs_multivials.html
http://www.ehow.com/list_6919635_fda-requirements-multi_unit-vials.html

 

[kisaj]

So I guess all the 200mg vials that get prescribed are meant for cycles and not TRT. It's really weird that they would do that all the time. LOL.

 

[pcn]

It's probably more that they are a "one size fits all" since prescriptions will vary and they just picked a happy medium to cover the majority of cases.

 

[Outside Backer]

great thread im 34 with similar numbers and have been in a battle with my endo for a yr relying on natty booosters in hopes and prayers

 

[BJE]

It's probably more that they are a "one size fits all" since prescriptions will vary and they just picked a happy medium to cover the majority of cases.

Well I talked to my pharmacist again today and he assured me that he has a lot of men on the 10ml vials and everyone uses them until they are gone and do not discard them. He said he has never heard of a problem using them past thirty days.

great thread im 34 with similar numbers and have been in a battle with my endo for a yr relying on natty booosters in hopes and prayers

I started having symptoms of low testosterone when I was in my late thirties. My total level was good but due to high SHBG my free test was always low. It took me until my mid forties before I could get anyone to treat me.

I have tried a lot of testosterone boosters. I don't think any of them really do much. I think what some of them really are are sex stimulants. Some things like horny goat weed make my penis more sensitive and orgasms better, but I think it has nothing to do with testosterone.

 

[threeFs]

Tribulus is bunk and though all the anecdotal evidence of DAA is good or whatever, it did absolutely nothing for my T levels.

 

[kisaj]

DAA lowered mine. Awesome stuff!

 

[murk01]

DAA lowered mine. Awesome stuff!

realy?

 

[kisaj]

Yeah. Obviously any of us in this forum understand how many outside variables play into T levels, but keeping everything as consistent as possible between testing times and following recommended 3.2g a day for 60 days brought numbers down from 258 to 243.

 

[vassille]

Really? I thought that was fairly widely known. Do a search on "beyond use date". I believe it's pretty standard practice in hospitals, maybe even an FDA requirement to discard a certain time after first penetrating the seal. A quick search can find these:

http://www.usp797.org/QA-E5.htm
http://www.apic.org/Resource_/TinyMceFileManager/Position_Statements/AJIC_Safe_Injection0310.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/injectionsafety/providers/provider_faqs_multivials.html
http://www.ehow.com/list_6919635_fda-requirements-multi_unit-vials.html

Never heard of this..... and exposing oils to air means nothing as in breaking the seal. Hospitals might do it for a different reason like safety since you have multiple users and cross contamination may come into play? one time use bottles explains this, since I saw 200mg bottles being dispersed, but test going bad is not one of them. Pharm test has a few years expiration and beyond that it looses a bit of its potency but still ok from a safety stand point because it has alcohol in it.
My HRT bottle lasts 12 weeks and it's been like this for years. Doctor or pharmacy never said to throw it out after 30 days.
Interesting

 

[pcn]

Sorry, I wasnt clear. My point was that since it is a standard in the industry, insurance follows the hospital standard and pays to replace the bottle at that point as well. Say a patient in a hospital was getting a treatment and treatment ran past the 28 days even though the bottle wasnt empty, it would be confusing trying to keep up with different standards between insurance and the hospital. I wasnt claiming that it needed to be thrown away after 28 days; I keep mine and use it until it's gone and save the surplus.

 

[vassille]

np, that makes more sense now.

 

[jalincoln]

Hey fellas. Been tuning into this post. I'm 36 yr old with all the symtpoms of Low T. Always tired, no energy, no sex drive always moody. I basically had been argueing with my wife the past 2 years if not more to the point her thinking I was cheating on her. I wasnt but that what she felt. Anywho, just got tested yesterday and got my results today. My T levels were at 105. My HDL was at low end of normal but my LDL were 2 pts higher than normal range. I will post the specifics once I go into see my Doc next week. She did tell me over the phone she was going to prescibe me T shots at 100 mg a week. Im not sure if thats a good thing or not. Definately want a normal life back, but if I can gain some mass on it also hey what the heck lets do it. Any help would be great. Thanks

 

[threeFs]

words can barely describe how good you will feel. Good luck

 

[kisaj]

I would be dancing around in anticipation. Keeping in mind that it can and usually does take a couple-few weeks for all the positives to be noticed, but you should see a rebound in energy and mood pretty fast.

I'm not even joking when I say that I actually get excited for you guys that are suffering and are working with doctors that will offer T injections. It is such a life changer that I can't help but feel happy for you.

 

[jalincoln]

Kisaj and 3f thanks for your help. I have been suffering and unfortunately it has nearly cost me my job and my marriage. Question, can u run a ph along with t shots. Pct just needed for liver? Thanks and def rep power to both of u.

 

[kisaj]

First off, I would never run a ph. Secondly, there is no pct needed and you should concentrate on getting yourself on track and not add in variables. Of course, this is only my opinion. I come from a school of thought that you concentrate on getting healthy and then stick with the basics of eating, lifting, fitness, resting, calming and building the mind, and profit. You'll be incredibly surprised what you can do mentally and physically by getting your test levels right.

 

[jalincoln]

Your right Kisaj! Thanks for the advice. I'll keep u posted and should have results next week

 

[jalincoln]

Also when they use or give t shots. Is it a certain type or just straight T.

 

[kisaj]

I was prescribed cyp

 

[threeFs]

Kisaj and 3f thanks for your help. I have been suffering and unfortunately it has nearly cost me my job and my marriage. Question, can u run a ph along with t shots. Pct just needed for liver? Thanks and def rep power to both of u.

It's funny you mentioned PH. I was just thinking during my workout today... I felt as good if not better today than when I ran epistane. And that's just TRT test cyp @ 120mg/ divided 70/50 per week. In fact, my wife was done and I stayed for another 10 minutes and kept lifting...and Saturdays are usually my rest day.
Although I'm still considering some kind of cycle (Prob not PH) I have been impressed with my strength gains just being on this TRT. I go back and forth about what to do, but after a day like today, I feel like I'm already on. Well, I am on but you know, not at cycle dosages. Part of the other reason I'm not cycling though is that I don't even know where to get the injectables.

 

[BJE]

It's funny you mentioned PH. I was just thinking during my workout today... I felt as good if not better today than when I ran epistane. And that's just TRT test cyp @ 120mg/ divided 70/50 per week. In fact, my wife was done and I stayed for another 10 minutes and kept lifting...and Saturdays are usually my rest day.
Although I'm still considering some kind of cycle (Prob not PH) I have been impressed with my strength gains just being on this TRT. I go back and forth about what to do, but after a day like today, I feel like I'm already on. Well, I am on but you know, not at cycle dosages. Part of the other reason I'm not cycling though is that I don't even know where to get the injectables.

Do you know what your current testosterone level is? Both total and free? I'd like to know at what level you are feel this well.

 

[jalincoln]

Yeah 3f I can't wait to feel that good. I go yo the gym 4x a week and have decent workouts but the only reason I get through is because my PWO! Prob would go another day too. I'm curios also what ur T levels are at also. I'm happy for u bro. I'm glad ur hitting it hard and feeling good again. Keep it up. I'm sure I would definitely start gaining some bulk once I get on. :32:

 

[threeFs]

My last blood work was on 11/6. My levels were
Total 525
Free 153.4
But.... After one of the 5 docs I've been to saw that, he said he wanted total test to be 800-1100. So he upped my dose from 100mg/week to 120/week. Since upping the dose about 2 weeks ago, I'm not sure my new #'s.
Something I learned to look for (from these forums) is how the test half life affects you. I was originally rx'd 200 e2w. That was too big of up/down so I had a different doc write it for e7d. But now I go 2x/week and that's even better.

 

[jalincoln]

Well tomorrow is the big day. First I get my first T shot of 200mg then also my script for 100mg a week. Secondly, I will be able to post my #'s what my actual blood work was. Im really excited to feel normal again and have the energy that I need to work my 12 hr shifts and have enough energy to keep up with my 3 yr old daughter... Better days on the horizon...