THE END OF OLD AGE......L-carnosine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    Definitely going to be looking into that.

    Where are you applying the cream?
    Second day now that I have noticed improvent. The soreness has actually had me limping in pain and keeping me away from the gym.

    I am applying to back and side of my knees and shoulders, chest areas. 1/2 pump twice per day.

    I have been reading that progesterone is a great anti-inflammatory and a hood anti-estrogen. Both are evils we want to control. It's a big myth and misconception that it is solely a female hormone. I highly recommend it.

    Getting my END OF OLD AGE shipment today. Looking forward to using pregnenolone (mother of all hormones) and astaxanthin!

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    And my knee ligament keeps getting better everyday
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    Hey... I'm looking for some references on the op's claims...

    Where are the studies supporting the defeat of the hayflick limit?

    I'd like something to be able to use for citation in a conversation with my friend and father.

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough
    Hey... I'm looking for some references on the op's claims...

    Where are the studies supporting the defeat of the hayflick limit?

    I'd like something to be able to use for citation in a conversation with my friend and father.

    Thanks

    I'm not sure if this is enough for you, but if not, there is plenty of reading on pubmed and through google.





    Carnosine reacts with protein carbonyl groups: another possible role for the anti-ageing peptide?

    AuthorsHipkiss AR, et al. Show all Journal
    Biogerontology. 2000;1(3):217-23.

    Affiliation
    Biomolecular Sciences Division, GKT School of Biomedical Sciences, King's College London, Guy's Campus London Bridge, London EC1 1UL, UK. alan.hipkiss@kcl.ac.uk

    Abstract
    Carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) can delay senescence and provoke cellular rejuvenation in cultured human fibroblasts. The mechanisms by which such a simple molecule induces these effects is not known despite carnosine's well documented anti-oxidant and oxygen free-radical scavenging activities. Carbonyl groups are generated on proteins post-synthetically by the action of reactive oxygen species and glycating agents and their accumulation is a major biochemical manifestation of ageing. We suggest that, in addition to the prophylactic actions of carnosine, it may also directly participate in the inactivation/disposal of aged proteins possibly by direct reaction with the carbonyl groups on proteins. The possible fates of these 'carnosinylated' proteins including the formation of inert lipofuscin, proteolysis via the proteasome system and exocytosis following interaction with receptors are also discussed. The proposal may point to a hitherto unrecognised mechanism by which cells/organisms normally defend themselves against protein carbonyls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough
    Hey... I'm looking for some references on the op's claims...

    Where are the studies supporting the defeat of the hayflick limit?

    I'd like something to be able to use for citation in a conversation with my friend and father.

    Thanks
    Pubmed and google. Here is one of a dozen in pubmed.



    Carnosine reacts with protein carbonyl groups: another possible role for the anti-ageing peptide?

    AuthorsHipkiss AR, et al. Show all Journal
    Biogerontology. 2000;1(3):217-23.

    Affiliation
    Biomolecular Sciences Division, GKT School of Biomedical Sciences, King's College London, Guy's Campus London Bridge, London EC1 1UL, UK. alan.hipkiss@kcl.ac.uk

    Abstract
    Carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) can delay senescence and provoke cellular rejuvenation in cultured human fibroblasts. The mechanisms by which such a simple molecule induces these effects is not known despite carnosine's well documented anti-oxidant and oxygen free-radical scavenging activities. Carbonyl groups are generated on proteins post-synthetically by the action of reactive oxygen species and glycating agents and their accumulation is a major biochemical manifestation of ageing. We suggest that, in addition to the prophylactic actions of carnosine, it may also directly participate in the inactivation/disposal of aged proteins possibly by direct reaction with the carbonyl groups on proteins. The possible fates of these 'carnosinylated' proteins including the formation of inert lipofuscin, proteolysis via the proteasome system and exocytosis following interaction with receptors are also discussed. The proposal may point to a hitherto unrecognised mechanism by which cells/organisms normally defend themselves against protein carbonyls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    Hey... I'm looking for some references on the op's claims...

    Where are the studies supporting the defeat of the hayflick limit?

    I'd like something to be able to use for citation in a conversation with my friend and father.

    Thanks
    I'd seen some earlier studies which suggested that extra cell divisions did not happen with carnosine, but that in other ways it returned the cells to much healthier function, and created a longer time between cell divisions, thus increasing lifespan of the cells, and health of the cells during that lifespan.
    This one caught my by surprise. I would need this backed up, but certainly carnosine or beta alanine are remarkable.
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    Received my shipment.

    Been taking,
    Pregnonolone
    Progrsterone
    Beta Alinine
    Astaxanthin
    L-arginine

    Beta Alinine give nice body tingled. Boy oh boy. Really feeling it now!
    L-arginine feels nice and warm.
    Progesterone is healing my ligaments.
    Pregnonlone made me feel smarter for first few days, now nothing.
    Astaxanthin, nothing seems hyped.
    Hyaloronic acid, nothing much, hyped?
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    Received my shipment.

    Been taking,
    Pregnonolone
    Progrsterone
    Beta Alinine
    Astaxanthin
    L-arginine

    Beta Alinine give nice body tingled. Boy oh boy. Really feeling it now!
    L-arginine feels nice and warm.
    Progesterone is healing my ligaments.
    Pregnonlone made me feel smarter for first few days, now nothing.
    Astaxanthin, nothing seems hyped.
    Hyaloronic acid, nothing much, hyped?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Received my shipment.

    Been taking,
    Pregnonolone
    Progrsterone
    Beta Alinine
    Astaxanthin
    L-arginine

    Beta Alinine give nice body tingled. Boy oh boy. Really feeling it now!
    L-arginine feels nice and warm.
    Progesterone is healing my ligaments.
    Pregnonlone made me feel smarter for first few days, now nothing.
    Astaxanthin, nothing seems hyped.
    Hyaloronic acid, nothing much, hyped?
    Do you feel anything or get immediate results from fish oil? Not really. Vitamin D3? Only if you take a mega-dose of it, and then you will notice it. Health supplements are subtle, you get the results often from blood tests much later, and a quiet sense of well being. If you stop taking a health supplement that's working well for you, you will notice the lack of it in a fairly short time.

    Beta Alanine and to a lesser degree L-arginine are not just health supplements, they are also noticeable as sport supplements for endurance, recovery, and N.O. (arginine) effects. These kick in a few days after starting.
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    Agreed, Tuberman. I only posted about the possible hype of astaxanthin and hyalauronic acid because of the astonishing reviews and research stating energy increases, decreases in wrinkles, anti inflammatory claims etc etc. These are not subtle claims and noticeable claims. Others have a right to know. If I feel anything positive, I will post it.

    I am especially disappointed with astaxanthin as it has been promoted as a miracle supplement. So far nothing.
  11. Jag
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    I am especially disappointed with astaxanthin as it has been promoted as a miracle supplement. So far nothing.
    Lucky, which brand of astaxanthin did you get and what doses are you using?

    I ordered some on Dutchmans results. Obviously, i read up on it first but couldn't find anything bad on it. Maybe it's one of those supps that works better over the long term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Agreed, Tuberman. I only posted about the possible hype of astaxanthin and hyalauronic acid because of the astonishing reviews and research stating energy increases, decreases in wrinkles, anti inflammatory claims etc etc. These are not subtle claims and noticeable claims. Others have a right to know. If I feel anything positive, I will post it.

    I am especially disappointed with astaxanthin as it has been promoted as a miracle supplement. So far nothing.
    Well, some people do claim to get fantastic results immediately from health supplements, and in most cases I take such claims with a lot of skepticism. You will notice that Dutchman said it took astaxanthin two years to normalize his vision, that is typical of even "miracle" supplements in the health category. Astaxanthin needs to be taken with high-fat meals otherwise absorbtion is minimal or less than 5%. I'm not picking on you here, but I'm saying I have different expectations then you. I feel thateven "miracle" health supps take weeks and even months to show their strength.
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    Good point, in fact I take my Astaxanthin every morning along with 2.7 gms of Omega 3s.
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    Would it be worth purchasing Beta-Alanine w/ L-Histidine?

    I found 500g of BA for about $24, or the same amount of a mixture w/~10% L-Histindine for about the same price.

    Should I opt for the mixture?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3whitelights View Post
    Would it be worth purchasing Beta-Alanine w/ L-Histidine?

    I found 500g of BA for about $24, or the same amount of a mixture w/~10% L-Histindine for about the same price.

    Should I opt for the mixture?
    From what i have read our bodies suplly us with enough Histidine so supplementing with it should not be necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3whitelights View Post
    Would it be worth purchasing Beta-Alanine w/ L-Histidine?

    I found 500g of BA for about $24, or the same amount of a mixture w/~10% L-Histindine for about the same price.

    Should I opt for the mixture?
    I too have read our bodies already had l-histidine. Having said that, I would have preferred to have ordered specifically l-carmosine. Simple for the "we do not know what we do not know" factor and the studies are on l-Carnosine not beta Alanine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    Lucky, which brand of astaxanthin did you get and what doses are you using?

    I ordered some on Dutchmans results. Obviously, i read up on it first but couldn't find anything bad on it. Maybe it's one of those supps that works better over the long term.
    I ordered the healthy origins brand. It had the most positive reviews. I also cut out my fish oil supplementation to see the effects. I will try with fish oil again to see if the the effects are any different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    The only thing Carnosine and Carnitine have in common is their latin root, carnis: meat/flesh/body. Think carnal/carnivore in english.

    I have been taking 5, size 00 caps of each for at least 5 years and swear by both. The carnosine I take in the form of Beta-Alanine because my body has more than enough Histidine and the Carnosine is 10 times MORE exensive. My best source on Carnosine would be Vitacost but even there it runs about $44 for 90 gms in caps. Here at NP I still buy my bulk B-A for $40 a kilo and my ALCAR for $60 a kilo and cap them myself.

    Beta-Alanine is what I combined with 5 caps of Taurine, another potent amino acid for the macula in our eyes, and Astaxanthin 10 mgs, some Zeaxanthin and Lutein 20 mgs to completely heal my eyesight. As I reported here a couple years ago, I went from 3.25 and 3.75 to 1.25 and 1.75 in a year and then to 20 - 20 the second year.

    I believe the recent article about the long lasting effects of B-A is "Beta-alanine effective for weeks after end of course" which is on Ergo-Log at http://www.ergo-log.com/betaalaninee...eforweeks.html

    Lucly, thanks for adding a great article for our use.

    Im very interested in putting your "vision stack" to the test...

    Ive had noticeable vision problems since I was 9 when I first had to get glasses... now a month and a half shy of 28 i have -4.00 in each eye as of an exam over a year ago (wouldnt doubt one bit its waned further) and I REALLY am worried about the outcome of my vision by the time im 50, let alone 70...

    Lasik is certainly on my list... I want to get it as soon as my health insurance kicks in(should be this next month)... BUT I want to maintain the results and not allow it to continue to decline at a similar rate...

    I see in your stack here you mention

    • Astaxanthin 10 mgs
    • some Zeaxanthin (how much?)
    • Lutein 20 mgs
    • Taurine (how much for these purposes, as I take 5g-10g every day during cycles)



    is this all you would suggest for someone as bad off as im getting?

    thanks for any info and your reasoning for use ahead of time
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    Sourdough, the whole gist of this thread was around Beta-Alanine/Carosine. I strongly suggest you add 5 gms of the BA daily to your list as well as taking 5 gms of the Taurine. I'm no Doc. but given your condition as you describe it, I personally would also be taking say 40 or even 60 mgs of the Lutein. If you buy it from Vitacost as I mentioned above, they have it combined with Zeaxanthin. You would then be adding 2 or 3 mgs of the Z which should be enough. Good luck, keep us posted. Oh yeah, I think I also mentioned it somewhere above, make sure you try to get 3 to 5 gms daily of Omega 3s, they are super vision helpers.
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    yup... DHA and EPA are essential for babies to properly develop their eyes and brains... I already supp with those though

    thanks for the input.... BA was in my use, but since dropped when I ran out... its currently in my cart at nutra


    Ill def report back to this thread/in general after putting this to the test through the next year... may or may not have the surgery by then... would be nice to see some natural progression though.
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    Nice thread
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    This has been MY comprehension as well

    Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    I did a quick check on a life extension forum about carnosine vs beta alanine. There was a lot of confusion on that forum as to what is best to use, and which one does what. My feeling is that beta alanine is a great sports supplement that buffers H+ ions and increases endurance, but carnosine is probably best for anti-glycation and life extension. There were two guys in their upper 60's who received excellent improvement from carnosine in the age related areas. They were both supplementing a gram per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    This has been MY comprehension as well

    Anyone?
    I read about a study done on beta alanine supplementation and carnosine levels .. the carnosine levels in muscle rose by 40-80% if I remember correctly.. And Carnosine(as a supplement) would not get absorbed very efficiently..
    I think this article references a number of studies on beta alanine supplementation and muscle carnosine concentrations: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ment_superstar

    I'm guessing the cheapest way to raise your carnosine levels would be by supplementing with beta alanine.. But I'm not a professor, so please correct me if I'm wrong!!
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    I gotta tell you, this counters the logic that's been discussed so far on this thread and supports the use of Carnosine vs Beta Alanine.....

    http://www.betaalanine.info/

    To understand how beta-alanine works to fight the drop in pH within our
    muscle, you must first understand how carnosine works. The reason being is,
    beta-alanine’s performance benefits are not direct but realized through its
    ability to boost the synthesis of carnosine.

    How much Beta-Alanine is
    needed to cause performance increases?

    Research has shown that you can
    take an amount between 3.2 grams and 6.4 grams per day to significantly boost
    carnosine levels and improve performance. The most recent research, now using
    4-5 grams a day, is showing comparable carnosine concentration and performance
    improvements to those using 6.4 g daily. Based off the current research, we
    suggest 4 grams of beta-alanine a day, with an “optional” 2 week loading phase
    of 6 grams a day during the first month of use.

    How long will it take to
    start noticing benefits?

    Performance benefits typically occur in as
    little as two weeks, although some individuals will notice benefits within one
    week. As carnosine levels increase, the benefits will follow. The most dramatic
    results are generally experienced within the 3-4 week range but they don’t stop
    there. Recent research is now showing carnosine levels continue to increase for
    a minimum of 12 weeks which is why we recommend staying on Beta-Alanine for at
    least three months to optimize your carnosine levels.
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    More on the subject: Carnosine seems to be vastly superior.

    http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21927


    Influence of oral beta-alanine and L-Histidine supplementation on the carnosine
    content of gluteus medius.

    Excerpt from above abstract: "Changes in
    muscle carnosine concentration appeared to be influenced by beta-alanine
    bioavailability. Individual increases in muscle carnosine concentration were
    significantly correlated with individual changes in beta-alanine..."


    ~vs~

    High levels of dietary carnosine are associated with
    increased concentrations of carnosine and histidine in rat soleus muscle.


    Excerpt taken from above abstract: "After 8 wk, 1.8% carnosine resulted
    in significant fivefold increases in carnosine and twofold increases in
    histidine in the soleus muscle (P < or = 0.05). Muscle vitamin E
    concentrations were not significantly affected by dietary carnosine. Thus, very
    high levels of dietary carnosine are associated with increases in carnosine and
    histidine concentrations in rat soleus muscle."



    The carnosine
    content of vastus lateralis is elevated in resistance-trained bodybuilders.


    J Strength Cond Res. 2005 Nov;19(4):725-729

    Tallon MJ, Harris
    RC, Boobis LH, Fallowfield JL, Wise JA.

    School of Sports, Exercise and
    Health Sciences, University College Chichester, Chichester, West Sussex, United
    Kingdom.

    Tallon, M.J., R.C. Harris, L.H. Boobis, J.L. Fallowfield, and
    J.A. Wise. The carnosine content of vastus lateralis is elevated in
    resistance-trained bodybuilders. J. Strength Cond. Res. 19(4):725-729.
    2005.-Resistance training is associated with periods of acute intracellular
    hypoxia with increased H(+) production and low intramuscular pH. The aim of this
    study was to investigate the possible adaptive response in muscle carnosine
    (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) in bodybuilders. Extracts of biopsies of m. vastus
    lateralis of 6 national-level competitive bodybuilders and 6 age-matched
    untrained but moderately active healthy subjects were analyzed by
    high-performance liquid chromatography. Significant differences were shown in
    carnosine (p < 0.001) and histidine (p < 0.05). Muscle carnosine in
    bodybuilders was twice that in controls. The carnosine contents measured are the
    highest recorded in human muscle and represent a 20% contribution to muscle
    buffering capacity. Taurine was 38% lower in bodybuilders, though the difference
    was not significant. Possible causes for the changes observed are prolonged
    repetitive exposure to low muscle pH, change of diet or dietary supplement use,
    or the use of anabolic steroids. The increase in buffering capacity could
    influence the ability to carry out intense muscular activity.


    Some
    recent research in respect to cyclists and beta-alanine supplementation.


    Influence of beta-alanine supplementation on skeletal muscle carnosine
    concentrations and high intensity cycling capacity.Hill CA, Harris RC, Kim HJ,
    Harris BD, Sale C, Boobis LH, Kim CK, Wise JA.
    School of Sports, Exercise
    & Health Sciences, University of Chichester, Chichester, U.K..


    Muscle carnosine synthesis is limited by the availability of
    beta-alanine. Thirteen male subjects were supplemented with beta-alanine
    (CarnoSyntrade mark) for 4 wks, 8 of these for 10 wks. A biopsy of the vastus
    lateralis was obtained from 6 of the 8 at 0, 4 and 10 wks. Subjects undertook a
    cycle capacity test to determine total work done (TWD) at 110% (CCT(110%)) of
    their maximum power (W(max)). Twelve matched subjects received a placebo. Eleven
    of these completed the CCT(110%) at 0 and 4 wks, and 8, 10 wks. Muscle biopsies
    were obtained from 5 of the 8 and one additional subject. Muscle carnosine was
    significantly increased by +58.8% and +80.1% after 4 and 10 wks beta-alanine
    supplementation. Carnosine, initially 1.71 times higher in type IIa fibres,
    increased equally in both type I and IIa fibres. No increase was seen in control
    subjects. Taurine was unchanged by 10 wks of supplementation. 4 wks beta-alanine
    supplementation resulted in a significant increase in TWD (+13.0%); with a
    further +3.2% increase at 10 wks. TWD was unchanged at 4 and 10 wks in the
    control subjects. The increase in TWD with supplementation followed the increase
    in muscle carnosine
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    Interesting............


    In 2000 the researchers published the result of an animal study they had done in Biochemistry. They had given short-lived SAMP 1 mice supplements in their drinking water throughout their lives. One group was given a mixture of beta-alanine [structural formula above on the right] and histidine, and the other group got carnosine [structural formula below on the right]. The mice were given 100 mg/kg bodyweight of the mixture or of the carnosine.

    Carnosine is a dipeptide with a whole range of interesting properties. In the muscles, it works as a buffer. The more carnosine there is in your muscles, the harder you can train and with better results. If you take beta-alanine, enzymes in your muscle cells attach a histidine molecule to it, and carnosine is formed. Humans have so much histidine in their body that taking extra histidine has no effect on carnosine synthesis as a result of beta-alanine supplementation. Carnosine used to be prohibitively expensive, which is why only beta-alanine supplements were available.

    But carnosine has become cheaper and now it’s possible to buy beta-alanine supplements that also contain pure carnosine.

    Carnosine not only has positive effects on muscle tissue. According to studies done in the nineties, carnosine 'rejuvenates' aging cells. It ups the rate of energy processes and makes cells more resilient to the formation of plaques as happens in atherosclerosis or Alzheimer's. In addition, carnosine inhibits the formation of undesirable protein-sugar compounds, and thus helps fight problems related to aging like eye
    disease and wrinkle formation. [Biochemistry (Mosc). 2000 Jul; 65(7): 869-71.]

    Well. Back to the British-Russian study. The researchers, who by the way around the same time announced that fruit flies live longer if given carnosine, discovered that mice live on average 20 percent longer if they are given carnosine in their drinking water [a]. A supplement containing a mix of beta-alanine and histidine [b] was less effective. The mice in the b-group hardly lived any longer than the mice in the control group [c].

    The table above reveals that carnosine supplementation reduced the likelihood of visible signs of aging in the mice. "Carnosine acts as a true antioxidant protector rather than as an anabolic drug", the researchers write. How exactly the supplementation made the mice live longer, the researchers didn't study.
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    For those of you that seek thorough confusion LOL

    http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic...s-l-carnosine/
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    Gotta tell ya, Im swithing to Benfotiamine Powder (CHEAP, more effective at disrupting glycation formation), and I couldnt come across much controvery at all.

    http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACentu...mins.html#1170

    I started a thread on Glycation as well: Best supps for inhibiting Glycation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    For those of you that seek thorough confusion LOL

    http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic...s-l-carnosine/
    Longecity is one of those forums where you have a lot of what I call "Scare tactic morons," and their main points are always scored by taking some Pubmed study out of context with some "toxic" possibility to perfectly good or even great supplements. The study will turn out to be done on some small animal that can't produce some critical Amino or the like that is depleted by said supplement. The study gives huge doses of something like Beta Alanine to cats that cannot produce Taurine, and since BA and Taurine are competitive to the same receptors, then Taurine gets depleted in the cats.


    This is merely one example of something that happens constantly with hundreds of variants on Longecity. A contrary person will go out of their way to overlook literally dozen or hundreds of studies to find the one opposing study to get them the attention they so desire. A search for attention replaces the search for truth.

    What do you think of Carnosine? The science is mixed between it and BA. I've seen 3-4 older people who say it is better than BA for health issues, and these go beyond just glycation.
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    Currently, I share that position. Carnosine is an excellent anti-oxidant as well.

    Also, considering the fact we are interested in the anti-glycation effects, I think it lends even more credence to Carnosine when LifeExtension Brite Eye III drops for cataracts are made from carnosine.

    That said, I am still not 100% certain.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    What do you think of Carnosine? The science is mixed between it and BA. I've seen 3-4 older people who say it is better than BA for health issues, and these go beyond just glycation.
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