Older guy thinking of prohormones ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbumpkin View Post
    I took dplex and was a horny ass by end of second week and had baseball bat between my legs lol
    Androhard will do that to you as well, and I saw zero shedding while using.

    To OP, Epi is a methylated PH/DS, but is usefull for cutting and recomping, but I just thought id mention it. Have you seen any of the write-ups for our Androseries? I think Androlean or Androhard would be exactly what your looking for. Check it out if you havent already- http://www.primordialperformance.com...androlean.html
    http://www.primordialperformance.com...rohard-v2.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    LOL ... I'd have no problem doing "needles" but there's not a chance in hell I'd be able to hide that from little Mrs. Honda. Orals are one thing ... but most people not associated with this lifestyle look at needles as hard core drug abuse.

    I'm sure she'd freak out.
    Get a blood test, be found to have low testosterone. Work with one of the crazy anti-aging clinics that will prescribe 300 mg a week or more of testosterone. She can't complain if its prescription.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    LOL ... I'd have no problem doing "needles" but there's not a chance in hell I'd be able to hide that from little Mrs. Honda. Orals are one thing ... but most people not associated with this lifestyle look at needles as hard core drug abuse.

    I'm sure she'd freak out.
    You talking about script meds or nonscript meds? Nonscript I'd understand the freaking out. I'm on script test. If my current med doesn't do the job, I told my wife I'd go to inj. She said she'd have no problem pinning me. I wonder if she'd make the pin payback time for anytime I ever pissed her off...
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    I would stay away form Epi. It targets ER beta receptors which have an anti-prolific effect on the prostate. Blocking ER beta is not what use older guys want. I have plenty of research to support this.

    I would also stay away from AndroHard. It is basically DHT. There is a lot of research showing that DHT is bad for the prostate, especially in older folks.

    If you want something mild and non-methyl try 11 Spray.

    The body wears out over time. Us older guys can still produce qualitymuscle we just need to be more cautious then our younger counter parts.
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    I think our Andromass wich is really 1test and 4ad combined would something worth looking at, especially since its not liver harsh. http://www.primordialperformance.com...andromass.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    LOL ... I'd have no problem doing "needles" but there's not a chance in hell I'd be able to hide that from little Mrs. Honda. Orals are one thing ... but most people not associated with this lifestyle look at needles as hard core drug abuse.

    I'm sure she'd freak out.
    All of the negative press about drug abuse with steroids doesn't help. I had to educate my wife on the issue of my steroid use. First thing up was the liver toxic issue, the press really worked this angle. She has no problem with it as long as I keep my " stuff " out of sight. Granted it was a little tense for a few weeks, She accepted my trt after she read the blood test results. I'm on week 3 of a 20 week cycle and she has no problem with it. Infact, she enjoys cooking and has been keeping me on a strict diet. She has a calendar to mark off the days until cycle ends then it's back to trt dose. At times I feel like I have a handler oh at least its working.....
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    I had to sub in on this one as you guys are sharing some assume info and for a guy that just started HRT a little over a month ago I would like to know about everything that I can possibly learn. 49 with low test and Dr script for Androgel. It's working ok but I'm thinking of finding a endo as I'm just seeing the family Dr for my problems.
    I will research what Honda V65 had said earlier as I would like to maybe add something to the Adrogel to get more of a boost. Definitely would like to add considerable muscle but without the fat. Thanks Honda V65 for that info!
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    Older guy should stick with osta, no shutdown.
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    Hello, I'm quite new to forum. And old also (over 35)

    I'm thinking about some mild cycle to raise my strength up. Some background: I'm ex quite heavy juicer, did plenty of testosterones etc for years and quitted at 2002. Was 8 years completely off from hormones and tested myself to find out that my test levels were low. I just wondered why my strength came down slowly but steady during those 8 natural years. So now i'm at test replacement therapy with nebido (8 weeks). During these 6 or 7 months my strength has skyrocketed up. About 120lbs on bench, 180lbs to deadlift and something like 150lbs to squat.

    I assume, since i'm rest of my life on testosterone therapy. I just cannot shut down my test levels anymore whatever I do? I understand if i take epistane or some milder like err.. cynostane my levels go down when I quit, but I dont really quit since i use nebido which keeps my levels stable "natural level".. ? No need for pct.

    Of course estrogen might become problem but my estrogen levels are evaluated also and estrogen is much easier to bring down than testosterone back up(normally)

    I have already family and childs, so thats not problem here.

    Sorry for long post, just my thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hookoo74 View Post
    Hello, I'm quite new to forum. And old also (over 35)

    I'm thinking about some mild cycle to raise my strength up. Some background: I'm ex quite heavy juicer, did plenty of testosterones etc for years and quitted at 2002. Was 8 years completely off from hormones and tested myself to find out that my test levels were low. I just wondered why my strength came down slowly but steady during those 8 natural years. So now i'm at test replacement therapy with nebido (8 weeks). During these 6 or 7 months my strength has skyrocketed up. About 120lbs on bench, 180lbs to deadlift and something like 150lbs to squat.

    I assume, since i'm rest of my life on testosterone therapy. I just cannot shut down my test levels anymore whatever I do? I understand if i take epistane or some milder like err.. cynostane my levels go down when I quit, but I dont really quit since i use nebido which keeps my levels stable "natural level".. ? No need for pct.

    Of course estrogen might become problem but my estrogen levels are evaluated also and estrogen is much easier to bring down than testosterone back up(normally)

    I have already family and childs, so thats not problem here.

    Sorry for long post, just my thoughts.
    Give the Osta a shot brother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by junkyarddogzz View Post
    Give the Osta a shot brother.
    Osta is an excellent alternative...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by junkyarddogzz View Post
    Older guy should stick with osta, no shutdown.
    Depends on the dosage. At higher levels it will lower test levels and raise E2. There are bloods over at PHF to prove it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctay View Post
    Hi, I'm 42 and been hitting the weights hard for nearly three years after stopping for a couple (shoulder and elbow issues) Have perhaps 7 or so years weight lifting behind me. I'm a roid and PH virgin and have been thinking about some mild to moderate strength PH for cutting and strength gain. Muscle mass gain is not a priority, but I won't shrug it off.

    Considering the Ortasan-A/Furazan or 11-OXO types, likely solo towards the higher end of dosages for max effect. Not too keen on stacking just yet as I prefer to avoid Methyls right now for a first time run. Though I'm open to what makes sense. I've read tons of FAQs and articles the last two weeks, I'm aware of cycle support and PCT.

    Usual supps include Creatine, lots of BCAAs: 8:1:1, Beta Alanine and a host of Stims I try here and there: ECA, straight Caff, MRM Driven, White Flood, and currently Jack3D. Not all in a stack of course. Fish oils, vits and mins.

    In the gym five days a week - 75-90 mins, usually combination of mainly compound movements and finishing with 15-25 mins of cardio- steady and Hiit. I prefer lifting heavy, but not too much to risk form or further injury. I really would like to break some plateaus, so strength gain would be great.

    Nutrition is about 98% clean and controlled, except for the occasional slice of pizza. Typically keep cals to around 2400-2500. I could go lower, but I don't want to lose the muscle I got the last few years nor slow down my metabolism.

    In a similar situation, would you consider a PH or two to cut better, by lowering cals further and hopefully holding onto the muscles or just avoid them, perhaps for now till I get my BF% lower, which I do have a lot to lose - currently around 22-24%.

    Feedback would be Awesome!
    ever had your test levels checked by the doc?-test replacement is a better alternative and you would be recieving an external supply of test forever.
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    ctay,
    what did you decide and how are things going? I'm curious as I would like to hear your results and from what you are doing. I can't get into the endo until September as a new patient and considering to through something in until I can get into to see the dr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Osta is an excellent alternative...
    Make sure you get good Ostra. I think mine is bogus.
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    did my first ph at 49 ... with great results. but the libido took a hit and Ive never quite come back to where i was pre cycle.
    Despite that, ran a TBol/Proviron cycle this year, with terrible results. My test must just be way too low now, and it was all sides, and little gains.

    Ive been using Ostarine, and love it. Its not gear, or even ph ... Id say somewhere above creatine, and below epi. But it CAN be slightly supressive ... maybe a 20 year old wont feel the difference, but I find I gotta cycle it .. usually 3/4 weeks on, then the same time off.,
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocheey
    did my first ph at 49 ... with great results. but the libido took a hit and Ive never quite come back to where i was pre cycle.
    Despite that, ran a TBol/Proviron cycle this year, with terrible results. My test must just be way too low now, and it was all sides, and little gains.

    Ive been using Ostarine, and love it. Its not gear, or even ph ... Id say somewhere above creatine, and below epi. But it CAN be slightly supressive ... maybe a 20 year old wont feel the difference, but I find I gotta cycle it .. usually 3/4 weeks on, then the same time off.,
    I dunno, it really makes more sense to get your levels checked and get into TRT if its appropriate. Mine is covered by insurance for 150 mg a week, which isn't a "bodybuilding" dose, but is pretty close to a 21 year olds level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolFNUTT View Post
    ctay,
    what did you decide and how are things going? I'm curious as I would like to hear your results and from what you are doing.
    Hey ... I did a cycle of 5 weeks H-Drol at 50/75/75/75/50 and 4 weeks 11-Oxo at 300/450/450/300. Results were mixed. Didn't feel a thing or notice any changes in body or strength until the 4th week. The last two weeks of H-drol was near unbearable with back pumps. Had to ditch squats and deads completely; even other lifts caused pumps in the last few sets. No amount of Taurine or Potassium or extra water did a thing, I just reluctantly dropped what was killing me and gritted my teeth through the rest. Pumps were still there towards the end of PCT as well; probably spent 4 weeks in severe to moderate pain.

    Overall I gained about 6lbs lean and lost nearly 3%BF running a diet 500 cals below maintenance and hit a few PRs till the pumps were too much. Though I followed what I thought was a good PCT regimine - Tomax, PCT Assist, Lean Xtreme, DAA, increase calories above maintenance, etc, I lost about half the lean gains, and maybe added 1/2 to 1%BF. If it wasn't for the horrible pumps, I might consider it again and increase H to 100, but I likely won't be touching H-drol again. I think everyone's reactions and results vary with a few people on the extreme opposite ends. My back didn't approve of the stuff. I'm considering Anabeta since I already like the PES line of supps. Just doing AlphaT2, Shift and a natty T boost right now. Might do an Anabeta cycle in a few weeks, maybe combine with 11-Oxo again or not. Haven't given it much thought, been busy with life and such ... peace.
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    ctay,
    Thanks for the info. Man that is too bad that you didn't get the results that you where hoping for. Best of luck the next time. I go to the endo dr next month so I think that I will wait and see what the blood work looks like before I consider anything and probably the best idea. I might look into Epistane eod for a short cycle in the future like 3 weeks thus not needing PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolFNUTT View Post
    ctay, Thanks for the info. Man that is too bad that you didn't get the results that you where hoping for. Best of luck the next time. I go to the endo dr next month so I think that I will wait and see what the blood work looks like before I consider anything and probably the best idea. I might look into Epistane eod for a short cycle in the future like 3 weeks thus not needing PCT.
    For the goal I had - cutting while maintaining (or gaining) lean mass, H and Ox did a nice job and would have been fantastic if could have gone 100 with H, just those pumps were too nasty at the end, so I dropped it to 50. Not sure what happened during PCT; the losses would have been worse if I didn't keep everything in check. It's been six or so weeks since my PCT ended and I have still maintained some gains and I'm back to squats and dead, so life is fine once more. Good luck with the Epi if you go that route, check out tunedsports.com and read the epistane info bible tunedsports.com/designer-steroids/the-epistane-havoc-informative-bible
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctay View Post
    For the goal I had - cutting while maintaining (or gaining) lean mass, H and Ox did a nice job and would have been fantastic if could have gone 100 with H, just those pumps were too nasty at the end, so I dropped it to 50. Not sure what happened during PCT; the losses would have been worse if I didn't keep everything in check. It's been six or so weeks since my PCT ended and I have still maintained some gains and I'm back to squats and dead, so life is fine once more. Good luck with the Epi if you go that route, check out tunedsports.com and read the epistane info bible tunedsports.com/designer-steroids/the-epistane-havoc-informative-bible
    I wanted to comment more last night but my stupid computer kinda freeked out and the keyboard wouldn't let me go any further, arrrggg. Thanks for the epi info and for all the info you have shared. That is what I love about this board and the good folks here. Check out http store dot ************* dot com for everything that you purchase as you can probably save a TON of money. I was thinking of Osta but it appears that there is a lot of bad stuff going around and perhaps a little pricey and I kinda want to keep things under the wifes radar if you know what I mean. Cheaper and she doesn't raise too much stink and besides A HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE
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    Quote Originally Posted by GolFNUTT View Post
    I wanted to comment more last night but my stupid computer kinda freeked out and the keyboard wouldn't let me go any further, arrrggg. Thanks for the epi info and for all the info you have shared. That is what I love about this board and the good folks here. Check out http store dot ************* dot com for everything that you purchase as you can probably save a TON of money. I was thinking of Osta but it appears that there is a lot of bad stuff going around and perhaps a little pricey and I kinda want to keep things under the wifes radar if you know what I mean. Cheaper and she doesn't raise too much stink and besides A HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE
    Check out the PES subfourm on here and see if Anabeta might fit your bill. It's sorta between a natty test boost and pro hormone from my understanding. No PCT needed. A lot of folks do a 4week cycle, while some stretch to 6 or 8. I'm looking to do a two bottle 6-8 week cycle soon. Only concern I have is less gains than a traditional PH and increased appetite some experience (may lead to fat gain if you're not careful)
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    My only advice is to research the company that's making the product and the ingredients. A lot of companies put out complete crap. Epi for example is put out by a lot of suppliers and very few provide quality products.
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    Get blood tests before and after. I know you probably won't, as I didn't but trust me DO IT or DONT do a cycle. Also, check out Dr D and the pulse method on Epi. Maybe a good way to go to lessen the chance of shutdown.
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    everybody responds differently to ph's or aas. i think liver issues are over hyped and loss of libido too. i'm 39 and for 4 years i did high doses of everything i could get my hands on. i even took 60mg of m1t a day for 8 weeks, with tren and inj 4ad homebrew on the side for 16 weeks. sometimes i wouldn't even do a pct, which i dont recomend btw. order u a SERM. my liver enzymes would elevate slightly but would return to normal after and i drank beer heavily for years. for 3 years i was never off more than 8 weeks before i would go back on again. the only bad side effect i had was lethargy sometimes. i havent done anything in 4.5 years. i feel fine. libido is as good as it was in my 20's. and i KEPT most of the gains i made. i know i sound like a bad influence but, personally i'd do the strongest **** i could get my hands on if i was gonna bother with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocheey View Post
    did my first ph at 49 ... with great results. but the libido took a hit and Ive never quite come back to where i was pre cycle.
    Despite that, ran a TBol/Proviron cycle this year, with terrible results. My test must just be way too low now, and it was all sides, and little gains.

    Ive been using Ostarine, and love it. Its not gear, or even ph ... Id say somewhere above creatine, and below epi. But it CAN be slightly supressive ... maybe a 20 year old wont feel the difference, but I find I gotta cycle it .. usually 3/4 weeks on, then the same time off.,
    I'm 54 and this is why I don't recommend PH's to guys over 35. Sometimes we never bounce back. We aren't 20 anymore. We have to be smarter if we want to be healthy later in life.
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