You cannot gain 20 pounds of muscle on a safe oral cycle

[UnrealMachine]

Ok, I will do this in the future... but I still really believe its possible to gain 20lbs of muscle with TREN LV.

See I just think you're smart enough to know better than that.

In a nutshell Eric, I generally like your policies and company, I haven't used your products but I've heard many good things and thus I've recommended them to others... I like your really slick website and I know you are a smart guy and you put out some really innovative products that I admire.

So when I see the thread title about gaining 20 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks it's not that I'm angry or trying to be a saint but rather that I am disappointed because I think your products will sell without the ridiculous advertising; it's unnecessary and below your company.

 

[bulldogz]

what's everyone talking about, you can gain 20lbs of muscle...just take between 600-800mg of tren ed like they suggest...

I knew this was gonna be great....

 

[pavb10]

i can speak for muscle memory...had acl surgery lost thirty pounds and then gained 22 in 5 weeks with 1-t from pp. I also lost bf%

 

[DirtNap]

2 Things that are awesome about this thread:

1) It wasn't deleted
2) Eric is in here defending the product and interacting with members.

Of course all users won't gain 20lbs of muscle. But it was an effective product, no doubt. I've read I don't know how many logs (AAS and designers) that have people gaining 15-20lbs of "lean mass" in 4-6 weeks. The problem is that everybody's definition of lean mass is different and there are a ton of variables.

 

[needfasp3ed]

What exactly is this Muscle Feeder gonna be? A PH?

 

[EVILADAMS]

Unreal speaks the truth.

CAN YOU DIG IT?!

 

[js2sbr]

Unreal,

Been a while since I have commented on anything cycle related. I am in week two of a tren lv / sd run. The Tren LV is run at 3ml 3x a day. The SD is run 10mg M, Tu, Th, F (workout days.) Starting weight was 165. 11 days in I am currently at 173lbs so 8lbs gained. My diet took a hit as I have not been getting the 275 - 300 grams of protein this past week I had in my plan (getting 200 - 225 atm.) Final 17 days will see the diet back up to 300 grams at 4000 calories. Its more of a dirty bulk. PCT diet will have protein at the 210 gram per day / 2500 - 3000 calories.

20lbs of weight? Yes. 20lbs of muscle? No. I am good with that since it is a bulk. Where as people may have been captivated by the 20lbs of muscle, I have always looked at ph cycles for bulking and that means weight. I do like the delivery of the Tren LV. I have used Liquid Clenbuterex more so as a morning stem than fat burner and the liquid oral delivery worked so well it was a no brainer that I would give the Tren LV a go.

In alot of ways this subject is moot. Primordial sold out of the Tren LV and of course the 1/4/2010 ban is well in effect now. No more of this stuff is coming to the market. It is a solid product to stack with even if you don't gain the claimed 20lbs of muscle.

Hopefully the manufacturers are working on the next great thing since 1/4/2010 changed the game for all of us.

 

[UKStrength]

What exactly is this Muscle Feeder gonna be? A PH?

Nope, something just as nice though!

...It will be totally non-steroidial and very safe... Its going to be a nutrient partitioning agent/insulin modulator... like nothin on the market.

ETA at the moment is Late March '10!

 

[Psychabinol]

Is muscle feeder transdermal, oral, or liquivade technology?

 

[warsteiner]

In a nutshell Eric, I generally like your policies and company, I haven't used your products

I think that sums everything up. Try the product before questioning the advertised results/gains.

I seem to remember a similar argument between TripDog and Chuck Diesel before Trip had tried any Diesel products. Once he tried them he was hooked and is now repping for Chuck.

 

[isoc]

no disrespect to anyone, unless you are a genetic freak, or you are new to lifting, or comingback from injury or layoff (that is an important aspect overlooked the combo of newbie gains with a mild anabolic) you WILL NOT gain 20lsb of muscle in 6 weeks, you WILL NOT gain 10 lbs of muscle in 6 weeks. Experienced guys using slin, gh, test and dbol think its great when they put on 20lbs of muscle in 6 weeks and in no way shape or form is any single otc oral or topical any where NEAR the potency of the aforementioned stack, dont be stupid. And for those that do put on 20lbs in 6 weeks, I hope you are either coming off a layoff, a newbie, a genetic freak, or like looking a lot fatter than you were 6 weeks ago. Too many use taking a little gear as an excuse to eat like a pig (Im bulking), if you want to look like a weight lifter, then eat like one and that means disciplined clean food, keeping track of all your macros whether bulking, cutting or maintaining.

Or it could be I just have crappy genetics, I know my body would love to be what I call skinny/fat and weak, and it is hard for me to carry any decent size and be in shape and I am applying too much of my own experience to others, if so, I apologize.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think that sums everything up. Try the product before questioning the advertised results/gains.

I seem to remember a similar argument between TripDog and Chuck Diesel before Trip had tried any Diesel products. Once he tried them he was hooked and is now repping for Chuck.

So do you believe all advertising until you try out the product yourself? You must be the ultimate consumer.

I don't have to try the product out to knock the advertised results, I just have to use my brain. And you must not be understanding me here, I am not questioning PP's products, I think they put out GOOD products and I think they are a good company, therefore I think that advertisement should be below their standards

I've talked about this enough now, I am over it. PP is not the reason I made this thread, i threw in the bit on them as an afterthought, I just made this thread so that people here would stop putting together stupid monster-cycles with unrealistic expectations.

 

[Rodja]

The ones that really gain significant weight are also the ones who shouldn't be using them in the first place. There are far too many people that are <170 using these when they should stop being so impatient and learn to train and eat properly. We live in a society of wanting instant satisfaction and these types of products only work to exacerbate this lust.

 

[Ju1cedUp]

The ones that really gain significant weight are also the ones who shouldn't be using them in the first place.

agreed. Crappy workouts, a crappy 4 meal diet that comes out to "4000 clean cals" somehow, and then they still gain more than me.

 

[jbryand101b]

I just made this thread so that people here would stop putting together stupid monster-cycles with unrealistic expectations.

yea right. I love my monster cycles. they aren't stupid, just insane! and I expect to get unreal gains on every cycle bizznatch!








dang unreal mac., you keep threads like this up, ur gonna turn into the next pa. start sht up an all. lol

on a serious note, havn't seen you comment yet on the cel alpha one ( 7a-M1-t)

 

[TheDarkHalf]

yea right. I love my monster cycles. they aren't stupid, just insane! and I expect to get unreal gains on every cycle bizznatch!

:toofunny:

 

[Eric Potratz]

Is muscle feeder transdermal, oral, or liquivade technology?

Muscle feeder will probably be in capsule form. It will be nothing like a pro-hormone although you could certainly stack it with one. Its going to focus on modifying the action of insulin to increase nutrient storage in muscle rather than fat.

-Eric

 

[Ju1cedUp]

Muscle feeder will probably be in capsule form. It will be nothing like a pro-hormone although you could certainly stack it with one. Its going to focus on modifying the action of insulin to increase nutrient storage in muscle rather than fat.

-Eric

now that sounds interesting

 

[Psychabinol]

Muscle feeder will probably be in capsule form. It will be nothing like a pro-hormone although you could certainly stack it with one. Its going to focus on modifying the action of insulin to increase nutrient storage in muscle rather than fat.

-Eric

How much better would you compare it to current popular insulin supplements like anabolic pump, yellow gold, corsolic acid, and NA-rala.

 

[Ju1cedUp]

Im not buying it Eric...please send the hidden left over LV and the feeder to my po box for proper evaluation. Thanks.

a mi tambien

 

[dumbhick3]

I can't believe I just wasted 20 min of my life reading this thread...

I understand the real issue of people (newbs to be specific and others who should know better if they spent more time reading instead of writing) have unrealistic expectations regarding their oral cycles (and cycles in general) and gains (and their definitions of gains). But that is their problem; they have to learn (some will never learn, bu that is again their problem).

Nobody learns all the relevant information by osmosizing supplement company advertisement claims en masse. You don't learn organic chemistry by taking a marketing class in college. I've never seen a single supplement company advertisement that even mentioned the phrase "skeletal muscle mass" in a "gain XX lbs" context. I don't even see LBM gain claims very often. Just gains "claimed".

So who are we to put PP on a pedestle and then throw rocks at them when they don't live up to our unrealistic expectations of how a supplement company should market their products.

Someone even had the gall to mention morality in relation to this whole line of discussion. Hello? We are talking about AAS and prosteroids and prohormones and chemical performance enhancement and you are going to try and play the morality card? Seems pretty hypocritical to me. It's like someone popping a few Sdrol and saying to their friend who is getting ready to pin some test, "Hey, are you gonna inject that? That's not good for you, you know." Please. Save the moral indignation for church on Sunday.

Supplement companies are in business. The goal of business is to make money. That is a concept the predates the multi-billion dollar/year supplement industry and even predates the discovery of anabolic steroids d@mn near a century ago.

Half of the posts on this thread centered on one freakin' word in one thread title posted a month ago that relates to a product that is no longer available. "Muscle". Absolutely childish. And I-forgot-how-many posts were simply trying to make PP recant that one word from an old thread ("change it to 20lbs of mass, not muscle"). WTF? I thought I spent too much time on online forums...

I logged into AM today and came to the Anabolics section and the thread that catches my eye with tons of posts and activity is this semantics-oriented thread, so I came straight to it out of curiousity and ignored the rest of the threads and now I am out of time (don't worry, I don't know much about anything anyway).

Unreal, I know that your intention wasn't to start a 5-page thread centered on one word and your OP was not to that effect. You are better than that (to borrow your verbiage directed at PP). But it happened anyway; d@mn near 5 pages of unintelligent drivel. Someone even suggested that this be a sticky (what the hell for!?). It wasn't really your doing, but what a waste and discredit to this forum for what resulted. All this thread did in my mind is to make this forum look more childish than many of the other forums, something that someone alluded to sarcastically near the start of this thread. If I were to answer after reading this, then yes, this forum is more childish than forum X.

If everyone who posted on this thread complaining incessantly and being an advocate for the newbs would have used their collective "wisdom" and time to address other threads and topics on this forum instead and create new stickies to turn newbs into not-newbs (if that is actually what anybody cares about-I can't tell if that is a genuine concern or just rocks to throw), well, that would really be something beneficial to AM members in general.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[jbryand101b]

I can't believe I just wasted 20 min of my life reading this thread...































Of course, that's just my opinion.

what was?:shocked:
you gotta just laugh at it man.

 

[Ju1cedUp]

dumbhick... this is a forum. It is made for discussion.. why not talk about if we thought the ad was ethical or not? What if everyone was like.. hey the Ford pinto was made just to make money, lets not care if it trapped people inside as it burned them alive... that is alot more serious than what we are talkin about.. but still, why not discuss, thats what a forum is about. I don't think anyone was hurt or PP was effected by what we talked about, and who the hell knows, maybe it was constructive in some way for someone

either way this thing is dead now. And I dont think the AM community looks any less intelligent.

 

[dumbhick3]

I thought the thread was full of unintelligent/unhelpful comments and pointless arguing and nitpicking, not the highest calling of a forum meant for discussion. I didn't think it made the forum look less intelligent, just more childish.

With so many intelligent people on this thread, why not spread the intelligence around to help members of the AM community on other threads with actual questions instead of dogmatically bickering over a pedantic issue revolving around a single word?

Can you honestly say that this thread was "edifying" for the AM forums and community members? I ask b/c I consider this to be a primary function of a knowledge-oriented forum.

It seemed more like a disarrayed circle jerk to me (that's my opinion jbryand), and everyone finally cooled off and went home when they started chafing (well, most ppl), but who am I to care? Just don't forget to cup the balls. You just have to laugh, right?

 

[jbryand101b]

I thought the thread was full of unintelligent/unhelpful comments and pointless arguing and nitpicking, not the highest calling of a forum meant for discussion. I didn't think it made the forum look less intelligent, just more childish.

With so many intelligent people on this thread, why not spread the intelligence around to help members of the AM community on other threads with actual questions instead of dogmatically bickering over a pedantic issue revolving around a single word?

Can you honestly say that this thread was "edifying" for the AM forums and community members? I ask b/c I consider this to be a primary function of a knowledge-oriented forum.

It seemed more like a disarrayed circle jerk to me (that's my opinion jbryand), and everyone finally cooled off and went home when they started chafing (well, most ppl), but who am I to care? Just don't forget to cup the balls. You just have to laugh, right?

are you saying I dont help people or share knowledge?

me, i like to jerk it till the skin falls off.

but on a serious note, I have left comments that do nothing to help this thread because that is how serious I take it. unreal said what he wanted, me, I read it, agreed, but feel the topic is something that doesn't need said.

 

[dumbhick3]

I only mentioned your name b/c you seemed to be confused about my opinion from above, so I gave my opinion in a nutshell to clarify. I wanted to be clear that I was just giving my opinion, not statements of absolute fact (the thread already seems to have enough of those).

My comments aren't directed at individual members (I mentioned unreal once in my op, and not in a bad way). I am just giving my impression of what I mostly saw after reading all 4-5 pages of this thread in one sitting. I don't even remember who said what. I just remember most of what was said, and that the useful information collectively proffered could have fit on an index card rather than 5 scrolling pages.

 

[Ju1cedUp]

ya know.. sometimes after reading new thread after new thread of.. hey my diet is perfect and i work out really hard.. but i'm still 120lbs.. or maybe.. if i stack roid a and roid b and roid c blah blah blah (JUST INJECT)... ya need to rant on something completely off topic and insignificant like this thread haha

 

[UnrealMachine]

I can't believe I just wasted 20 min of my life reading this thread...

I understand the real issue of people (newbs to be specific and others who should know better if they spent more time reading instead of writing) have unrealistic expectations regarding their oral cycles (and cycles in general) and gains (and their definitions of gains). But that is their problem; they have to learn (some will never learn, bu that is again their problem).

Nobody learns all the relevant information by osmosizing supplement company advertisement claims en masse. You don't learn organic chemistry by taking a marketing class in college. I've never seen a single supplement company advertisement that even mentioned the phrase "skeletal muscle mass" in a "gain XX lbs" context. I don't even see LBM gain claims very often. Just gains "claimed".

So who are we to put PP on a pedestle and then throw rocks at them when they don't live up to our unrealistic expectations of how a supplement company should market their products.

Someone even had the gall to mention morality in relation to this whole line of discussion. Hello? We are talking about AAS and prosteroids and prohormones and chemical performance enhancement and you are going to try and play the morality card? Seems pretty hypocritical to me. It's like someone popping a few Sdrol and saying to their friend who is getting ready to pin some test, "Hey, are you gonna inject that? That's not good for you, you know." Please. Save the moral indignation for church on Sunday.

Supplement companies are in business. The goal of business is to make money. That is a concept the predates the multi-billion dollar/year supplement industry and even predates the discovery of anabolic steroids d@mn near a century ago.

Half of the posts on this thread centered on one freakin' word in one thread title posted a month ago that relates to a product that is no longer available. "Muscle". Absolutely childish. And I-forgot-how-many posts were simply trying to make PP recant that one word from an old thread ("change it to 20lbs of mass, not muscle"). WTF? I thought I spent too much time on online forums...

I logged into AM today and came to the Anabolics section and the thread that catches my eye with tons of posts and activity is this semantics-oriented thread, so I came straight to it out of curiousity and ignored the rest of the threads and now I am out of time (don't worry, I don't know much about anything anyway).

Unreal, I know that your intention wasn't to start a 5-page thread centered on one word and your OP was not to that effect. You are better than that (to borrow your verbiage directed at PP). But it happened anyway; d@mn near 5 pages of unintelligent drivel. Someone even suggested that this be a sticky (what the hell for!?). It wasn't really your doing, but what a waste and discredit to this forum for what resulted. All this thread did in my mind is to make this forum look more childish than many of the other forums, something that someone alluded to sarcastically near the start of this thread. If I were to answer after reading this, then yes, this forum is more childish than forum X.

If everyone who posted on this thread complaining incessantly and being an advocate for the newbs would have used their collective "wisdom" and time to address other threads and topics on this forum instead and create new stickies to turn newbs into not-newbs (if that is actually what anybody cares about-I can't tell if that is a genuine concern or just rocks to throw), well, that would really be something beneficial to AM members in general.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Bro you are taking this thread too seriously, I've been having a fruitful PM convo with Eric, and this thread isn't a big deal.

And about judging a "PH" selling company and their advertisements, I think that is entirely within the scope of this forum. If you want to make fun of some of some supp company's advertising then go for it, I think a lot of the labels are hilarious, and could use some ridicule. For example I find the Anadraulic State label hilarious because of the claims made... My friends and I have tried it repeatedly and it always makes us feel ****ty and gassy and these days we take nothing pre-workout rather than touch that stuff.

LOL

Edit: i forgot to mention the best part, the only reason i have Anadraulic State in the first place is because someone gave me a nearly-full tub, later I found out that it was because it made him feel ****ty too.

 

[captricharund]

Bro you are taking this thread too seriously, I've been having a fruitful PM convo with Eric, and this thread isn't a big deal.

And about judging a "PH" selling company and their advertisements, I think that is entirely within the scope of this forum. If you want to make fun of some of some supp company's advertising then go for it, I think a lot of the labels are hilarious, and could use some ridicule. For example I find the Anadraulic State label hilarious because of the claims made... My friends and I have tried it repeatedly and it always makes us feel ****ty and gassy and these days we take nothing pre-workout rather than touch that stuff.

LOL

Edit: i forgot to mention the best part, the only reason i have Anadraulic State in the first place is because someone gave me a nearly-full tub, later I found out that it was because it made him feel ****ty too.

The Capt. suggests the smart consumer looks beyond the marketing hype to measure a products worth

 

[Ju1cedUp]

The Capt. suggests the smart consumer looks beyond the marketing hype to measure a products worth

if only there wasn't so many dumb consumers...

 

[edwitt]

i disagree i have come pretty damn close + 22 of which approx 15lb was muscle

 

[hardknock]

I can't believe I just wasted 20 min of my life reading this thread...

I understand the real issue of people (newbs to be specific and others who should know better if they spent more time reading instead of writing) have unrealistic expectations regarding their oral cycles (and cycles in general) and gains (and their definitions of gains). But that is their problem; they have to learn (some will never learn, bu that is again their problem).

Nobody learns all the relevant information by osmosizing supplement company advertisement claims en masse. You don't learn organic chemistry by taking a marketing class in college. I've never seen a single supplement company advertisement that even mentioned the phrase "skeletal muscle mass" in a "gain XX lbs" context. I don't even see LBM gain claims very often. Just gains "claimed".

So who are we to put PP on a pedestle and then throw rocks at them when they don't live up to our unrealistic expectations of how a supplement company should market their products.

Someone even had the gall to mention morality in relation to this whole line of discussion. Hello? We are talking about AAS and prosteroids and prohormones and chemical performance enhancement and you are going to try and play the morality card? Seems pretty hypocritical to me. It's like someone popping a few Sdrol and saying to their friend who is getting ready to pin some test, "Hey, are you gonna inject that? That's not good for you, you know." Please. Save the moral indignation for church on Sunday.

Supplement companies are in business. The goal of business is to make money. That is a concept the predates the multi-billion dollar/year supplement industry and even predates the discovery of anabolic steroids d@mn near a century ago.

Half of the posts on this thread centered on one freakin' word in one thread title posted a month ago that relates to a product that is no longer available. "Muscle". Absolutely childish. And I-forgot-how-many posts were simply trying to make PP recant that one word from an old thread ("change it to 20lbs of mass, not muscle"). WTF? I thought I spent too much time on online forums...

I logged into AM today and came to the Anabolics section and the thread that catches my eye with tons of posts and activity is this semantics-oriented thread, so I came straight to it out of curiousity and ignored the rest of the threads and now I am out of time (don't worry, I don't know much about anything anyway).

Unreal, I know that your intention wasn't to start a 5-page thread centered on one word and your OP was not to that effect. You are better than that (to borrow your verbiage directed at PP). But it happened anyway; d@mn near 5 pages of unintelligent drivel. Someone even suggested that this be a sticky (what the hell for!?). It wasn't really your doing, but what a waste and discredit to this forum for what resulted. All this thread did in my mind is to make this forum look more childish than many of the other forums, something that someone alluded to sarcastically near the start of this thread. If I were to answer after reading this, then yes, this forum is more childish than forum X.

If everyone who posted on this thread complaining incessantly and being an advocate for the newbs would have used their collective "wisdom" and time to address other threads and topics on this forum instead and create new stickies to turn newbs into not-newbs (if that is actually what anybody cares about-I can't tell if that is a genuine concern or just rocks to throw), well, that would really be something beneficial to AM members in general.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

.....
This forum is designed for people to discuss their opinions and beliefs. They have the right to talk about which ever they please. There is a bar/line that you cannot cross in terms of what can be said or talked about, but, this thread certainly does not cross that bar/line in any sounds, shapes, or fashions.

I think I mentioned it not being morally correct, however, i never said do not do it. I said that I would have loved to see them not do it, not "hey, do not do this or I am going to be angry"

I also mentioned that they are in the business to make money, who said they were wrong for doing that? I agree on it. But, they could have sold just as much tren if they were to have said, "TREN, last run EVER, on sale now"

And, why would you try and tell someone that they cannot tell another person that their tactics do not look "fair" or "moral". It's a person's opinion man, you do not own someone's opinion; you cannot dictate what someone says.


The ones that are in here talking about "oh shizz just got real" or saying "yeah, tear PP down, they deserve this", I do not think is right, but who am i? I think it sparked a real conversation, outside of the direction, but it did spark some conversation about if it was possible. By that, this may open some eyes of others whom are less informed. The same topic would have had nearly the same post if the thread title read "can you gain 25lbs of skeletal muscle in 6 weeks from an injectable cycle" or something similar.

What would have been the difference? The only difference would have been that XXX company name would not have been included in the title. People throw up USPlabs name into threads like this all the time, and NO ONE hardly ever comes in riding on the white horse trying to be the knight in shining armor for them....

 

[dumbhick3]

ya know.. sometimes after reading new thread after new thread of.. hey my diet is perfect and i work out really hard.. but i'm still 120lbs.. or maybe.. if i stack roid a and roid b and roid c blah blah blah (JUST INJECT)... ya need to rant on something completely off topic and insignificant like this thread haha

I'll buy that, and I applaud you reading so many threads, ever how painful it may be (sounds painful, more painful than a test prop inj).

I have mixed feelings b/c I dislike the government regulating as many trivial things as possible and using our tax dollars to do so (e.g. prosteroids), but I think that it will be a good thing as more and more prohormones/PS get banned in that we won't see so many posts from adolescent males (literally) talking about gyno symptoms on day TWO of their bold 200 cycle. Most ppl have stocked up (or overstocked), we've gotten some great closeout prices (sometimes at invoice cost or less), and many of us have been through multiple bans or have hookups on the "dark side" (lol) or prefer the dark side.

BTW, the above was an actual post a few weeks ago on AM, and there are so many things wrong with it, I don't even know where to start. If you are 17 years old, what is going to help more? The massive amounts of test naturally circulating in your system, or taking a weak but suppressive cycle of bold 200? But adolescents don't want to hear that. They also don't care that they are often the impetus for all these bans. "Won't someone pleeease think of the children!?"

I would be inclined to delete said thread and ban the moron, but perhaps that is too harsh. Maybe more stickies or something so that when the next stupid question comes up, just post the link and say "read!". Maybe have a weekly poll that asks which thread topics should be closed immediately ("What is a SURM [sic]?", etc). I am just thinking out loud...this getting off topic I guess, but what you say is true.

 

[dumbhick3]

.....
This forum is designed for people to discuss their opinions and beliefs. They have the right to talk about which ever they please. There is a bar/line that you cannot cross in terms of what can be said or talked about, but, this thread certainly does not cross that bar/line in any sounds, shapes, or fashions.

I think I mentioned it not being morally correct, however, i never said do not do it. I said that I would have loved to see them not do it, not "hey, do not do this or I am going to be angry"

I also mentioned that they are in the business to make money, who said they were wrong for doing that? I agree on it. But, they could have sold just as much tren if they were to have said, "TREN, last run EVER, on sale now"

And, why would you try and tell someone that they cannot tell another person that their tactics do not look "fair" or "moral". It's a person's opinion man, you do not own someone's opinion; you cannot dictate what someone says.


The ones that are in here talking about "oh shizz just got real" or saying "yeah, tear PP down, they deserve this", I do not think is right, but who am i? I think it sparked a real conversation, outside of the direction, but it did spark some conversation about if it was possible. By that, this may open some eyes of others whom are less informed. The same topic would have had nearly the same post if the thread title read "can you gain 25lbs of skeletal muscle in 6 weeks from an injectable cycle" or something similar.

What would have been the difference? The only difference would have been that XXX company name would not have been included in the title. People throw up USPlabs name into threads like this all the time, and NO ONE hardly ever comes in riding on the white horse trying to be the knight in shining armor for them....

Hardknock-thanks for your posts.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to defend PP per se. I use their products and other companies products as well. USPlabs-I don't know much about them, but I don't doubt what you say, and it is incongruent. From what I hear, they make solid products like Jacked3D (correct?) and lots of people use that one with good results and recommend it to others. Hell, lots of people still use 6-oxo, and PA's explanation for its purported benefit in a nutshell is that it sells really well (LOL). Most people know that it is incredibly weak (useless IME) and overpriced, but to each his own.

Unreal-I appreciate your posts as well (FWIW). You are one of a small group of extremely knowledgable members on AM, so when you talk, I listen. I wasn't trying to give the impression that I was taking things too seriously. It seemed like everyone else was taking things too seriously. Kind of like forum roid rage. Honestly, the thought of how PP was taking this thread didn't really cross my mind b/c I have a good idea of how they take these threads. Not seriously at all other than trying to address criticisms and so on and then getting back to work.

Here is a funny side story about the claims people make and how well trusted they are. In a Boston Metro newspaper about a month ago, there was a survey of which groups of individuals did people trust the most and the least. At the bottom of the list, the people surveyed indicated that they trusted used car salesmen more than politicians!

 

[qwerty33]

not everyone could possible gain 20lb but for some i believe its possible. Will they still be up 20lbs on the scale post pct and into a cut. Probably no, but 1-t tren, at least for me, packed on 12-15 lbs post pct.