Which supps can I add to my current ones?

mrhankey87

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Hey there, I'm currently cutting and having some issues mantaining intensity/strength/endurance/recovery while losing weight.

This is what I'm currently taking:
- PES Shift
- SNS Reduce XT
- Primaforce Alcar
- Oximega fish oil
- Orange Triad multivit

Is there anything else NON STIM that could aid in the aforementioned things? I feel like Alcar is not doing much prewo, and I could maybe benefit from something more postwo, since I'm just taking the usual broshake banana + whey, nothing more.

Thanks for your time guys! :)
 
smith_69

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welcome to the forum bro

1- do you have a preferred brand
2- how much do you want to spend?
3- what do you want in it?
4- want something in that will give a pump?

There are some pretty good ones and I am sure others will offer their help. Above might make it easier to help you out
 
mrhankey87

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welcome to the forum bro

1- do you have a preferred brand
2- how much do you want to spend?
3- what do you want in it?
4- want something in that will give a pump?

There are some pretty good ones and I am sure others will offer their help. Above might make it easier to help you out
Thanks! Money is no issue, no brand loyalty here lol just whatever works best and has good overall reputation.
Pump is not a priority, as I wrote before mantaining intensity/strength/endurance/recovery is - as long as it doesn't provide water retention
 
cheftepesh1

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Take a look T2 as it is non stim and for $25 you can keep a nice and lean during a bulk it helps with a cut.
 
smith_69

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Agmatine
high volume
tr1umph
purple wrath
nos ether

and CHEFepesh1 mentioned
 
cheftepesh1

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Not to sure what shift is as I have not used. Two different companies so can't say it replaced.
 
Aleksandar37

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Hey there, I'm currently cutting and having some issues mantaining intensity/strength/endurance/recovery while losing weight.

Thanks for your time guys! :)
If you're looking for a solid non-stim pre-workout, then High Volume from PES will have you set. Overall though, how do your calories look? Are you getting enough carbs? I ask because a lot of people will cut down on those "evil carbs" when trying to cut weight and it ends up working against them.
 
mrhankey87

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If you're looking for a solid non-stim pre-workout, then High Volume from PES will have you set. Overall though, how do your calories look? Are you getting enough carbs? I ask because a lot of people will cut down on those "evil carbs" when trying to cut weight and it ends up working against them.
Not many, really. Calories are on point, fats and pros on point, but I'm struggling to reach 1lb of fat loss each week, therefore carbs are pretty pretty low atm. Not gone, but my daily carbs are 2 bananas, 80gr pasta, one apple and 3 Wasa crispbreads. Sunday a good amount of cheating carbs though
 
mrhankey87

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Agmatine
high volume
tr1umph
purple wrath
nos ether

and CHEFepesh1 mentioned
Also just took a look at Purple Wraath...damn, nice profile and looks to be exactly what I'm searching for. Any preference in between High Volume and Purple Wraath?
 
smith_69

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Also just took a look at Purple Wraath...damn, nice profile and looks to be exactly what I'm searching for. Any preference in between High Volume and Purple Wraath?
JDybya said it best- hope it helps
 
Aleksandar37

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Not many, really. Calories are on point, fats and pros on point, but I'm struggling to reach 1lb of fat loss each week, therefore carbs are pretty pretty low atm. Not gone, but my daily carbs are 2 bananas, 80gr pasta, one apple and 3 Wasa crispbreads. Sunday a good amount of cheating carbs though
Are you doing cardio or just lifting?
 
mrhankey87

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Are you doing cardio or just lifting?
Haven't done cardio during this cut yet, but my lifting sessions are pretty intense already, on top of being 5 days a week. I'll definitely add cardio though

Actually I'm losing more than 1lb per week, let's say in between 1 and 2 but in the past things were kinda easier, for certain reason It's going slower this time.
 

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For a non stim pre, look into iForce Hemavo2 Max (nootropics and pump/endurance agents)

For a post product, look into Finish Line so you can get your daily dose of creatine, betaine, beta alanine as well as l-alanyl-l-glutamine and LCLT to help with hydration and recovery
 

Rob1882

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Isn't T2 a kinda old product that Shift basically replaced, or is kinda doing the same job but better than T2?

I think you are confusing things PES had discontinued Alpha-T2 and brought back it's "SHIFT" unsure if the current SHIFT is the same as the orig? But I thought it was just bringing back an older product it had it was not a replacement for Alpha-T2 in the same sense as they are not the same things nor is T2 the same as Alpha-T2.

Had used a good bit of Alpha-T2 used in an ECY stack and along side just Norcodrene



Something like Finish Line would be a nice addition as Robert5891 mentioned as well Hemavo2 lot of nitrates & gms along with other goodies.
 
Aleksandar37

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Haven't done cardio during this cut yet, but my lifting sessions are pretty intense already, on top of being 5 days a week. I'll definitely add cardio though

Actually I'm losing more than 1lb per week, let's say in between 1 and 2 but in the past things were kinda easier, for certain reason It's going slower this time.
I would seriously look into your carbs. It sounds like you're not getting enough. Feel free to throw up your calories and macros, but I'm suspecting it's a big reason why you're feeling like you are.
 
Misfit28

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You could add in some SNS TTA-500 to aid in fat loss.

You have a pretty good stack to begin with, but that could add another fat burning pathway for you.

For a nice focus boost without stims, you could try some Caffeine Free Focus XT.
 
Jiigzz

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I would seriously look into your carbs. It sounds like you're not getting enough. Feel free to throw up your calories and macros, but I'm suspecting it's a big reason why you're feeling like you are.
Throwing up food is a major sign of an eating disorder, not so sure I encourage this behavior

Hahaha :D kidding. I know what you meant
 
vujade

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Take a look at Follidrone 2.0 By BLR.

http://www.tgbsupplements.com/product/black-lion-research-follidrone-2-0-pre-sale/

It will definitely help with strength and endurance. plus the Ecklonia Cava has been shown
in studies to help lose fat and add muscle in humans.

Epicatechin
Promotes AMPK
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
Antioxidant

These days everyone already knows about Epicatechin so I wont spend alot of time here. Amazing stuff. There is a solid dose of Epicatechin in here along with a strong absorption enhancement package. We use several ingredients that prevent metabolism and allow epicatechin to be fully absorbed which in turn increases its effects many times over. All the benefits you have come to love from epicatechin, Muscle mass, strength, endurance, pump but MUCH stronger.


Ecklonia Cava: EC
Muscle mass
Fat loss
Promotes AMPK
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
ACE inhibitor
Antioxidant
Vasodilator
Cardio protective
Increased brain function
Reduced cholesterol
GLUT4 Expression


This is one of the most well studied seaweeds on earth. Millions of dollars has been spent looking at this stuff for all kinds of purposes. Its exceptional with regards to health benefits and safety. Its also exceptional with regards to its benefits to us as muscle gain and fat loss enthusiasts. Like Epicatechin EC is a strong follistatin booster and as such myostatin inhibitor. In addition to its ability to reduce myostatin it is also a very solid ACE inhibitor. Ace inhibitors are interesting to say the very least. Ace inhibitors increase insulin sensitivity and glucose uptake into muscles. Lower ACE equates to lower overall bodyfat levels, increased fat metabolism in the liver and the ability to process sugars much faster. In addition increased cell surface GLUT4 increases nutrient shuttling into muscle tissue. It has been suggested that ACE inhibitor-induced positive effects may also be mediated by direct action on the skeletal muscle. In particular, two recently published observational studies documented that among hypertensive subjects free of CHF, treatment with ACE inhibitors was associated with better performance and muscular outcomes and genetic studies also support the hypothesis that the ACE system may be involved in physical performance and skeletal muscle function. Effects on the skeletal muscle are probably mediated by mechanical, metabolic, anti-inflammatory, nutritional, neurological and angiogenetic actions. Individuals with the II genotype of the ACE gene have greater endurance and greater skeletal muscle trainability in some studies. Hypertensive patients taking ACE inhibitors have greater cross-sectional muscle mass and a slower decline in walking speed than those taking other antihypertensives in epidemiological studies. ACE inhibitors are also known to improve endothelial function, muscle glucose uptake, increase potassium levels and modulate other hormonal systems including IGF-1, all of which could contribute to improved skeletal muscle function. Finally, ACE inhibitors could of course be mediating a direct effect on skeletal muscle structure and function; they are known to have trophic effects on myocardial tissue. Finally ACE inhibitors help us with fat loss independent of food intake. This appears to be due to a high energy expenditure related to increased metabolism of fatty acids in the liver, with the additional effect of increased glucose tolerance.

EC is a strong vasodilator and helps restore and increase endothelial function. EC can regenerate the vascular endothelium, the cells critical to the inner lining of the blood vessels. They generate the chemical nitric oxide (NO), which keeps the arterial walls relaxed and dilated. After a six-week study of EC, flow mediated dilation and NO mediated dilation increased by 60% and 50%. In another study, coronary artery disease patients were given EC for six weeks. Blood flow controlled by NO increased 50-60%. These results confirm that EC can rejuvenate damaged endothelial cells to produce NO. This effect was further confirmed in a study on erectile dysfunction (see below).

Scientists studied 31 men with erectile dysfunction (ED) for over six months. They compared eight weeks of EC use to Viagra. They looked at orgasmic function (OF), intercourse satisfaction (IS), overall satisfaction (OS), and erectile function (EF). Over those eight weeks, ECE scored 87%, 74%, 62%, and 66%. Viagra scored 27%, 44%, 39%, and 66%. No side effects were reported with EC:


DGAT Inhibition
Diacylglycerol acetyl transferase (DGAT) is the enzyme involved in the final step of triglyceride synthesis. Triglycerides are circulating fat bodies that ultimately wind up in the fat cells, and are almost always elevated in diabetes. They also have emerged as a major risk factor in vascular disease.
It was found that EC compounds inhibited DGAT more than 50%. In genetically caused obese laboratory rats, EC reduced body fat and increased physical activity. In another study, EC caused leanness and fat-resistance in animals given a high fat diet.

ECE Beverage: 2-Week Clinical Trial
In a human study, 141 young adults were given a beverage containing ECE at 200 mg daily. In two weeks their average weight dropped nearly 2.5 pounds, muscle mass increased by nearly 2.5 pounds, and body fat dropped by 4 pounds, or 7.48%. EC stimulates the body to burn fat by increasing muscle mass.

Frankly I dont know of too many things that have the potential of Ecklonia cava. Great for building muscle and losing fat, Vasodilation and a host of health benefits round this ingredient out and make it in my opinion the star of the show and I believe an even stronger ingredient than epicatechin.




Flos carth
Increased Follistatin
Reduced myostatin
Reduded Activin A
antiinflammitory
antioxidant
Increased NO production

Flos Carthami extract was initially a target for me because of its ability to increase Follistatin (see Fig 1.). Increased Follistatin, decreased Myostatin and activin A lead to increased muscle building potential. Flos Carthami has a strong antioxidant effect and is highly anti inflammatory. more than one tester mentioned a reduction in overall muscular pain perception acutely post training and during the DOMS stage of recovery. Several studies indicate that FC improves endothelial function and NO production similar to EC and (-)-E extract.


ABSORPTION PACKAGE=

Quercetin/niacin co crystal
Vasodilator, Increased VO2 Max,
Absorption

Quercetin niacin co_crystals are a whole new ingredient. Everyone knows about quercetin and niacin but quercetin has very poor oral bioavailability and niacin causes severe flushing at decent doses. Bonding the molecules together increases the absorption of Quercetin many times over and prevents the Niacin flush. Quercetin has been mentioned for everything from endurance and an increase in VO2 Max to fat loss to its strong antioxidant effect, however, for our purpose we added it specifically for its ability to increase the absorption of our other ingredients. Specifically, epicatechin. Its as just an added bonus we get all the benefits of both quercetin and niacin which includes vasodilation and improved cholesterol levels making this a star ingredient we plan on adding in high amounts in our coming PRE WORKOUT product

Absorption=
Both of these tested exceptionally well and have strong scientific evidence supporting their use to increase the absporption of epicatechin.
Octyl gallate
Citrus bioflavaniods

REFS:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20385110
http://www.fiercebiotechresearch.com...oss/2008-04-29
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20...90105.abstract
http://ageing.oxfordjournals.org/content/37/4/363.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19026021
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12398116
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16787247
 
mrhankey87

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For a non stim pre, look into iForce Hemavo2 Max (nootropics and pump/endurance agents)

For a post product, look into Finish Line so you can get your daily dose of creatine, betaine, beta alanine as well as l-alanyl-l-glutamine and LCLT to help with hydration and recovery
I already took Hemavo2 Max time ago...despite the great feedback, it did almost nothing on me, besides ultra burps during workout cause it was so hard to digest (at least for me).
 
mrhankey87

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You could add in some SNS TTA-500 to aid in fat loss.

You have a pretty good stack to begin with, but that could add another fat burning pathway for you.

For a nice focus boost without stims, you could try some Caffeine Free Focus XT.
I actually already searched for TTA-500 but literally can't find it anywhere here in Europe, nobody selling it :(
 

georgetown

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Try a nutrient partioner like glycophase or slinmax, that stacked with agmatine and/or l-citrulline will help with pumps and full muscles
 
mrhankey87

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I would seriously look into your carbs. It sounds like you're not getting enough. Feel free to throw up your calories and macros, but I'm suspecting it's a big reason why you're feeling like you are.
Oh I'm SURE it's because of lack of carbs, but on the other hand...how am I supposed to lose more if I'm eating more carbs? Given that I'm already struggling to go down as of late...would you say more carbs BUT more cardio could make a difference?
 
mrhankey87

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Try a nutrient partioner like glycophase or slinmax, that stacked with agmatine and/or l-citrulline will help with pumps and full muscles
I think I'm set on Omega Burn 24 as a GDA, but if I'm not mistaken nutrient partitioners conflict with Forskolin (which is in my Shift). That's why next stack is gonna be Erase Pro+ and Burn 24 along with something else
 
JDybya

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I think I'm set on Omega Burn 24 as a GDA, but if I'm not mistaken nutrient partitioners conflict with Forskolin (which is in my Shift). That's why next stack is gonna be Erase Pro+ and Burn 24 along with something else
Not mistaken, but you can supposedly run gda (w/berberine) and shift (forskolin) together if you separate dosages by 3-4 hours - and still get the full benefits of both.

Doing that now myself. Love shift (stacked with norcodrene) during the a.m. And seeing great benefits from using slinmax with my night time carb meals

Just throwing it out there.
 
mrhankey87

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Not mistaken, but you can supposedly run gda (w/berberine) and shift (forskolin) together if you separate dosages by 3-4 hours - and still get the full benefits of both.

Doing that now myself. Love shift (stacked with norcodrene) during the a.m. And seeing great benefits from using slinmax with my night time carb meals

Just throwing it out there.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but GDAs are worthless if within my meal there's not many, or no carbs...right? I would basically use this at breakfast/lunch and cheat days, maaaaybe with postwo carbs, but can't say many of my meals have plenty of carbs
 
JDybya

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I take a slinmax before meals that have 25 or more grams. 2 if 50+ grams.
 
AntM1564

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Maybe I missed it, but are you using creatine? Creatine is probably the most studied supplement and has data that proves its effectiveness. CreMax XT gives you a full dose of creatine in two forms; monohydrate and CMM. The addition of the TMG will improve workout performance as well. The ingredients work synergistically with one another.
 

Daycrawler

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Hey there, I'm currently cutting and having some issues mantaining intensity/strength/endurance/recovery while losing weight.

This is what I'm currently taking:
- PES Shift
- SNS Reduce XT
- Primaforce Alcar
- Oximega fish oil
- Orange Triad multivit

Is there anything else NON STIM that could aid in the aforementioned things? I feel like Alcar is not doing much prewo, and I could maybe benefit from something more postwo, since I'm just taking the usual broshake banana + whey, nothing more.

Thanks for your time guys! :)
What does of ALCAR? Stim free focus XT from SNS is great. Reduce XT is awesome, glad to see that in there.

Besides that, you could do some ergogenic additions like Betaine, cit Mal, Creatine. SNS makes all of these in inexpensive bulks
 
mrhankey87

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Not at the moment. I generally use Promera Con Crete with awesome results, but thought (even if in HCL form) it would add some water retention. High Volume and some creatine would be great, if no water is added
 
mrhankey87

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What does of ALCAR? Stim free focus XT from SNS is great. Reduce XT is awesome, glad to see that in there.

Besides that, you could do some ergogenic additions like Betaine, cit Mal, Creatine. SNS makes all of these in inexpensive bulks
2g - 1g upon waking, 1g 30m prewo. Should I up it?
 
jgntyce

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Look into SNS lean edge, CLA extreme, RK-500, and Thyrocaps as well.
 
AntM1564

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Not at the moment. I generally use Promera Con Crete with awesome results, but thought (even if in HCL form) it would add some water retention. High Volume and some creatine would be great, if no water is added
Creatine will make one hold water intramuscular, not sub q. You may gain a little water weight, but that will help with performance. The amount of water you will hold wouldn't be noticeable.
 
mrhankey87

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Look into SNS lean edge, CLA extreme, RK-500, and Thyrocaps as well.
Would CLA and RK really make a difference? Lots of people saying it's kind of a waste of time, that's why I haven't purchased them yet
 
jgntyce

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Would CLA and RK really make a difference? Lots of people saying it's kind of a waste of time, that's why I haven't purchased them yet
When stacked together, it's an effective option.
 
booneman77

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If your diet is all set, and you want to focus on keeping strength and size Xgels or epi-plex is the way to go. These won't directly burn fat but they'll do wonders for strength when cals get low
 
Aleksandar37

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Oh I'm SURE it's because of lack of carbs, but on the other hand...how am I supposed to lose more if I'm eating more carbs? Given that I'm already struggling to go down as of late...would you say more carbs BUT more cardio could make a difference?
What's your ratio of protein, fats, and carbs? I'm not saying add more carbs of what you already have. You might want to drop some protein and fat and replace with carbs, but I'm guessing since I don't know what your current diet looks like.
 
Aleksandar37

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Throwing up food is a major sign of an eating disorder, not so sure I encourage this behavior

Hahaha :D kidding. I know what you meant
Zoolander claims it works :p
 
mrhankey87

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What's your ratio of protein, fats, and carbs? I'm not saying add more carbs of what you already have. You might want to drop some protein and fat and replace with carbs, but I'm guessing since I don't know what your current diet looks like.
Around 1g/lb pro and 0.5g/lb fats, actually perhaps a bit less but still get my almonds/olive oil/salmon (and Oximega) in there. Rest is carbs, but not many really. Example:

breakfast: banana+1.5 scoop whey

lunch: 80gr pasta + tuna

snack: 3 Wasa crispbreads + 1 apple + 1.5 scoop whey

postwo: banana + 1.5 scoop whey

dinner: pretty much just pros and fats (white/red meat, fish, olive oil, almonds)

prebed: cottage cheese

As you notice, pretty standard, nothing out of the ordinary
 
mrhankey87

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^ to add to this post, from my calculations carbs should be around 150g/day. I started my cut at 185lb 18%bf and I'm now 180lb x 6ft

25gr banana
65gr pasta
18gr Wasa
15gr apple
25gr banana
 
john.patterson

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Diet looks solid. I would definitely suggest adding creatine back in. The benefits certainly outweigh the possibility of a little water retention. CreMax XT is a great option for adding in creatine with some extras that are very beneficial while dieting. I find that the creatine and glycerol really help me feel stronger and more pumped in the gym, and CreMax XT also contains an electrolyte blend that can help with performance and energy in the gym
 

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2g - 1g upon waking, 1g 30m prewo. Should I up it?
Honestly that's totally fine.

It's a decent increase in mood and awareness for me. You could try pushing it up to 2.5-3G to see if that's a better sweet spot for you.
 
mrhankey87

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After some research, I think I'm adding High Volume and see how it goes.

Question: is Ergonine + High Volume a good stack during cutting? If I'm not mistaken there shouldn't be any ingredient that is present in both so...

Also, since High Volume would be strictly prewo, I guess E9 morning and HV prewo would be a correct dosage.

Already taking Shift, Reduce XT and ALCAR btw
 
bolt10

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After some research, I think I'm adding High Volume and see how it goes.

Question: is Ergonine + High Volume a good stack during cutting? If I'm not mistaken there shouldn't be any ingredient that is present in both so...

Also, since High Volume would be strictly prewo, I guess E9 morning and HV prewo would be a correct dosage.

Already taking Shift, Reduce XT and ALCAR btw
Ya that is a fine combination and shouldn't have any negative effects for cutting. It should help keep performance in the gym high and boost recovery as well. ?
 
mrhankey87

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Sorry for the added question, but it comes to my mind that, even with all the stuff I'm taking and even with possibly Ergonine + High Volume, I'd still have nothing as a postwo beside banana + proteins. Would Ergonine help if taken postwo, or best to be taken upon waking and add something else postwo? Thanks!
 
mrhankey87

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Update: took High Volume yesterday, I'm 180lbs but I tried not even 1 scoop to see if I could feel the effects....absolutely nothing, nada, zero.

Took 1.5 scoop today along with 1.5g ALCAR and OMG! The endurance is incredible, I recover so so much faster and could do many more reps than usual AND with shorter recovery, I wasn't feeling fatigued at all. I don't feel added strength (I don't think I should, given it doesn't contain creatine nor stims) but damn, the workout was almost too easy today, and my carbs were under 100g the whole day...this stuff works.

Just hope I'll still feel it after one week or two :) but for now, I guess I know why it's called High Volume!
 

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