When did PCT become a thing?

[YoungThor]

This is a historical question. Maybe there’s some old timers on here who can answer it, or maybe someone has read it somewhere before.

I’ve heard the guys during the golden era would just cross their fingers and hop off cycle. Some would “ween” themselves off, which we know is ineffective because lowering your AAS dose won’t help restart your natural hormones.

Anyway, around what year did it become popular knowledge in the bodybuilding community that you should take a SERM to help you recover post cycle?

BONUS:
Feel free to comment on this as well. I’d like to hear opinions. Some of you have watched Dr. Rand’s videos. In one video he claimed that the fastest way to recover your HPTA is to go cold turkey from your cycle. His logic is that this shocks the body into recovering faster. He claimed that SERMS ease your recovery and make it less painful, but that they actually slow down the rate of full recovery compared to just going cold turkey.

I don’t remember what video he specifically said this. But do you agree with his logic?

 

[dezzy84]

Not an old timer, but I LOVE bodybuilding history. My guess would be early to mid 80's, although it probably didn't become standard until 1990s.

I'd almost guarantee Dan Duchaine's steroid handbook had a hand in popularizing the concept, as there was no internet/forums etc back then.

 

[Wobmarvel]

This is a historical question. Maybe there’s some old timers on here who can answer it, or maybe someone has read it somewhere before.

I’ve heard the guys during the golden era would just cross their fingers and hop off cycle. Some would “ween” themselves off, which we know is ineffective because lowering your AAS dose won’t help restart your natural hormones.

Anyway, around what year did it become popular knowledge in the bodybuilding community that you should take a SERM to help you recover post cycle?

BONUS:
Feel free to comment on this as well. I’d like to hear opinions. Some of you have watched Dr. Rand’s videos. In one video he claimed that the fastest way to recover your HPTA is to go cold turkey from your cycle. His logic is that this shocks the body into recovering faster. He claimed that SERMS ease your recovery and make it less painful, but that they actually slow down the rate of full recovery compared to just going cold turkey.

I don’t remember what video he specifically said this. But do you agree with his logic?

Good topic. I remember posting that vid a while back. The take home point from that though was the objective being to kick-start natural test production. Nothing to do with maintaining gains. Remember back in the day people like Arnie would do a cycle for a few months before a show and grow into a show. When he wasn't competing he would be relatively small not like today's bodybuilders who balloon to 300lbs in the off season. It was a completely different mentality. Arnie was huge by the time he was 19. Every year after that was about perfecting what he had not adding size.

 

[Renew1]

Not an old timer, but I LOVE bodybuilding history. My guess would be early to mid 80's, although it probably didn't become standard until 1990s.

I'd almost guarantee Dan Duchaine's steroid handbook had a hand in popularizing the concept, as there was no internet/forums etc back then.

I studied for years, from magazines and PDR...
No internet.

 

[Alchemist11]

Contrary to that video, from everything I've seen and heared from oldtimers and seen from young uneducated gymrats, to stop cold turkey is the worst thing you can do.
In my opinion, part of all the bad stigma about AAS comes from that, a lot of people took them, stopped and then problems came... AND THATS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

Perfect example is some russian guy in my town, hes 25, he took test and deca for 12 weeks, didn't do pct, and he told me that he feels weak, without energy, imune system is bad, and so on, for 3 months. I suggested him to do hcg and after that, 6 weeks of Nolvadex. His Prolactin before pct, 3 months after that cycle was 3 x normal. After few weeks of Nolvadex, he still seems to have problems... So cold turkey is not the best option, even with younger guys.

 

[Cmseabee24]

Contrary to that video, from everything I've seen and heared from oldtimers and seen from young uneducated gymrats, to stop cold turkey is the worst thing you can do.
In my opinion, part of all the bad stigma about AAS comes from that, a lot of people took them, stopped and then problems came... AND THATS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

Perfect example is some russian guy in my town, hes 25, he took test and deca for 12 weeks, didn't do pct, and he told me that he feels weak, without energy, imune system is bad, and so on, for 3 months. I suggested him to do hcg and after that, 6 weeks of Nolvadex. His Prolactin before pct, 3 months after that cycle was 3 x normal. After few weeks of Nolvadex, he still seems to have problems... So cold turkey is not the best option, even with younger guys.

I agree 100% with this. When I was on my last deployment I was mid cycle and started drinking very heavily. Ended up stopping my cycle and not doing a PCT. I never felt the same again after that always lethargic, very weak, etc. it wasn’t until recently when I started cycling again that I had felt “normal” again.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

dan duchaine did in fact hammer out the concept. and I would say that the idea truly didn't take hold until the early to mid 2000's.. I remember because the very first quasi PCT I ran was with an OG box of halodrol.. before that SERMs were not something you dialed up on the internet. and AI's were still and ambiguous drug with their use being much different than today. I would add the PA helped to refine the PCT process with his knowledge on the subject circa 2009ish..

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Interesting .. I would also say maybe late 90's to early 2000's.

I started supplements and started learning maybe around 2002 ( college years) and people were very knowledgeable and helpful

 

[YoungThor]

I agree 100% with this. When I was on my last deployment I was mid cycle and started drinking very heavily. Ended up stopping my cycle and not doing a PCT. I never felt the same again after that always lethargic, very weak, etc. it wasn’t until recently when I started cycling again that I had felt “normal” again.

That sucks man. How long was the gap between cycles? Maybe your body would’ve eventually readjusted, or maybe your one of the unfortunate ones that would never bounce back all the way.

 

[YoungThor]

Good topic. I remember posting that vid a while back. The take home point from that though was the objective being to kick-start natural test production. Nothing to do with maintaining gains. Remember back in the day people like Arnie would do a cycle for a few months before a show and grow into a show. When he wasn't competing he would be relatively small not like today's bodybuilders who balloon to 300lbs in the off season. It was a completely different mentality. Arnie was huge by the time he was 19. Every year after that was about perfecting what he had not adding size.

I do remember watching an interview with Arnie from about a year or two after he retired from bodybuilding and he said he was weighing 210. So he lost 25-20 pounds after retirement. I believe he’d have lost most of that even if he did pct though because Arnie’s muscles were inflated with an insane amount of glycogen from dbol, and pct won’t help you keep that. But he easily could’ve lost some actual muscle too since his test levels were probably tanked for a while.

 

[Cmseabee24]

That sucks man. How long was the gap between cycles? Maybe your body would’ve eventually readjusted, or maybe your one of the unfortunate ones that would never bounce back all the way.

I continued to drink for 4.5 years over a gallon of whiskey a day. I’m sure that would t help with recovery but it didn’t start that bad. Very depressed as well I know for a fact it was due to not even attempting a PCT. Most likely I was running test EQ and tren and some oral.

 

[BarryScott]

BONUS:
Feel free to comment on this as well. I’d like to hear opinions. Some of you have watched Dr. Rand’s videos. In one video he claimed that the fastest way to recover your HPTA is to go cold turkey from your cycle. His logic is that this shocks the body into recovering faster. He claimed that SERMS ease your recovery and make it less painful, but that they actually slow down the rate of full recovery compared to just going cold turkey.

I don’t remember what video he specifically said this. But do you agree with his logic?

If he actually said this then never listen to anything he says again. That just demonstrates a complete ignorance of how serms work in pct.

 

[YoungThor]

With the lack of information bodybuilders had in the 70’s, do you generally think they believed they were safer than they are? I’m pretty sure guys like Arnold and Columbu were running dbol for a large portion of the year, when nowadays we’d call you suicidal for that.

With all the information and resources we have available today it’s much easier to manage risks. But with all that knowledge, it’s also easier to be a bit of a hypochondriac.

 

[mixedup]

When I first started around 20 years ago all we had was clomid and nolv ai's werent in use no adex aromasin etc no ralox or torm the idea of pct was there in the 90's but there was pretty much only one protocol

 

[swimfan65]

With 20 plus years of gear use, I would come off every once in a while to to reset and recharge. Used PCT the first 2 times because I was afraid not to. Then I said screw it and just came off with no PCT numerous times...never had the slightest issue. That is just me though. I never get E sides either on cycle though either...at all.

 

[Carnivorecon]

My first and only injectable cycle of sust 250 was about 10 years ago, I came off cold after 6 weeks like an idiot after an abscess in my glute, I knew nothing about pct. If it had any negative effects I didn't notice them, I think I was just very lucky and very stupid. My friend did the same last year came off dead ass stop and said he was fine after. Swimfan I think you've got to be the lucky 1 in a million that can do that

 

[Renew1]

My first and only injectable cycle of sust 250 was about 10 years ago, I came off cold after 6 weeks like an idiot after an abscess in my glute, I knew nothing about pct. If it had any negative effects I didn't notice them, I think I was just very lucky and very stupid. My friend did the same last year came off dead ass stop and said he was fine after. Swimfan I think you've got to be the lucky 1 in a million that can do that

Swimfan can do a lot of things most of us would never try.

 

[BarryScott]

I don't think coming off cold turkey vs coming off with a serm are as hugely different as people think, personally.

A serm just accelerates the process, but it doesn't alleviate the sides of being shutdown or anything. Ultimately your recovery is a bit of a crapshoot every time you cycle.

If anything using hcg on cycle has a bigger impact on recovery than serms.

 

[Hyde]

I know for a long time guys who knew about it would just come off onto proviron since it helped a lot with libido, energy, and preventing rebound gyno. And now we know from human studies that doses of 25-50mg aren’t even suppressive, so that actually was a great idea before SERMs and AIs were invented.

 

[Hyde]

I know for a long time guys who knew about it would just come off onto proviron since it helped a lot with libido, energy, and preventing rebound gyno. And now we know from human studies that doses of 25-50mg aren’t even suppressive, so that actually was a great idea before SERMs and AIs were invented.

 

[YoungThor]

My first and only injectable cycle of sust 250 was about 10 years ago, I came off cold after 6 weeks like an idiot after an abscess in my glute, I knew nothing about pct. If it had any negative effects I didn't notice them, I think I was just very lucky and very stupid. My friend did the same last year came off dead ass stop and said he was fine after. Swimfan I think you've got to be the lucky 1 in a million that can do that

I never did anything heav

I know for a long time guys who knew about it would just come off onto proviron since it helped a lot with libido, energy, and preventing rebound gyno. And now we know from human studies that doses of 25-50mg aren’t even suppressive, so that actually was a great idea before SERMs and AIs were invented.

Thats awesome that it’s not suppressive at that dose, but is it possible to recover while on it?

 

[YoungThor]

Or say you took proviron while taking a serm, would the proviron prevent the serm from working?

 

[Hyde]

I never did anything heav

Thats awesome that it’s not suppressive at that dose, but is it possible to recover while on it?

I used 25mg daily for weeks 2-6 of PCT the cycle before last, plus 5mg Ostarine as I was healing a reattached tendon, and both my bloodwork and personal feel and function shows I recovered fine.

I took 50mg on my honeymoon a week into PCT this past time and no issues as well. I have not used it daily during PCT this time though because I just didn’t need it I felt so good so fast.

It will negatively affect lipids some in most.

 

[YoungThor]

I used 25mg daily for weeks 2-6 of PCT the cycle before last, plus 5mg Ostarine as I was healing a reattached tendon, and both my bloodwork and personal feel and function shows I recovered fine.

I took 50mg on my honeymoon a week into PCT this past time and no issues as well. I have not used it daily during PCT this time though because I just didn’t need it I felt so good so fast.

It will negatively affect lipids some in most.

Well I might have to order some then. I’m sure it helps you keep gains too.

 

[Hyde]

Well I might have to order some then. I’m sure it helps you keep gains too.

Negative. Proviron is strictly androgenic, expect zero muscle retention. Libido/dick function, mood/energy, lowered SHBG, and estrogen antagonism are what you use it for.