Unconventional Nandrolone tech. Ur thoughts?

[Trt600mg]

https://www.doping.nl/media/kb/6606/Friedl%20et%20al%201991.pdf

One of nandrolone's drawbacks is related to estrogen. The bro consensus had it wrong though. It's not too much conversion; There is a lack of it.
A study shows comparison between 300mg of Test vs 300mg Nandrolone (deca)for 6 weeks. The test shows a very minimal increase in total mass with 3.4+/- 0.5 kg vs nandrolone's 3.3+/- 0.7kg. However that small increase might be inaccurate. On the test group the e2 was also elevated to the point of likely fluid retention while The deca groups e2 was fully slammed to the point where the gains were likely much drier, and didn't have the anabolic/neuroprotective benefits of having minimal amounts of e2.

Anyway. With this in mind. I'm hypothesizing that ----------while taking 400mg deca/week with DBOL (5-10mg daily) ; 50mg/week Drostanolone enantate; stopping after week 6, and resuming test dose that maintains a 29nmol/l serum concentration---------- will have more substantive lean gains then the equivalent dosage of test.
Yes dbol could be switched with a minimal amount of test, but I would argue the dbol has a few upsides that test doesn't.

Anyway. Thoughts?

 

[Nac]

Id be surprised if 500mg [deca/dbol/mast] didnt result in better gains than 500mg test.

However, yes in a study scenario with clearly measurable markers vs "the real, messy world", I honestly dunno if Id notice that much of a difference. Maybe the increases in the log book would be better given enough time? My scale weight:gut-circumference ratio slightly better? Im dubious the differences would be profound.

 

[Trt600mg]

If you read the study carefully I believe it says what the method for final analysis is..

I think they determine that the gains are fat free mass gains with calipers and .multiple skinfolds and math and stuff .

The study isnt perfect that's for sure. They don't factor In an increase in protiren and calories.. I think they just carry on at maintenance for Thier original bodymass while they cycle.. so that is definetly silly.


I'm trying to rationalize A DECA cycle. Because these two bottles of nandrobolin250 are burning a hole in my fridge..


With these ingredients. what goes in your PED pie?
Pantry: 6 grams of test +1gr a month for trt. 5 grams deca. 4 grams mast e. 2 gram UG oxandralone and 1gr of Rx grade oxandralone. Adex. Asin.

 

[Nac]

Have you watched any of Taeian Clarks videos? He's the so-called deca-no test "guru" and worth a look if youre genuinely interested in pursuing this. If youve not come across him Vig Steve did an interview with him recently, its a decent enough intro to his basic ideas.

If I was doing a growth phase Id definitely be running test/deca/mast in generous quantities, trying to avoid AI use. If running a cut or prime, Id tend to keep the test/deca low, mast moderate, and run the oxandrolone last 6-8 weeks. Given what you have available.

 

[Trt600mg]

Have you watched any of Taeian Clarks videos? He's the so-called deca-no test "guru"

I've only seen parts of the recent interview with vig Steve, perhaps I'll give it a more thorough look.. I can't find where there is taeians content , I'm not certain if he's got alot of stuff online, I think he usEd to be big on some forums... what I saw recently it's just a dozen shorts.. I think he might not be Into the social media the same way the successful guys did . I'll search some more to see if can find some materiel to read.


Regarding stacks.. I need an AI on my trt dose.. that's one of the reasons I was thinking cutting test and relying upon Deca dominantly. I dig mast, and I really like the feeling, but I shed hair like a Persian cat in August. I wanted to utilize it to a basal level of dht to maintain libido, not to leverage it's hardening/cosmetic properties. (I'm still too fat to appreciate it. )

Currently is time out for the var.aswell.. at least until my HDL recovers for a good stint. even at low dose var kind of messes with your lipid.all While fully supplementing with omegas fish krills etc..

 

[Nac]

Sounds like all your roads are leading to the deca/dbol/mast experiment.

Clark has a bit of info on IG and facebook if you want to delve into things further there.

 

[Trt600mg]

Sounds like all your roads are leading to the deca/dbol/mast experiment.

Clark has a bit of info on IG and facebook if you want to delve into things further there.

I actually just found his .com ... It's pretty pro .

In fact. I just learned something really neat in last ten minutes. You can start to run clomid before during and after a cycle to maintain elevated production the whole time..
Would be handy if I hadn't nuked my balls from orbit years ago.. But I can tell some roid-vergans who are scared of suppression.

 

[Smont]

That part about the clomid, sounds good on paper but it's 100% not maintaining natural testosterone production on cycles

 

[Smont]

Nandrolone dosent have enough estrogen on its own, but when you add Nandrolone to testosterone it makes your testosterone convert more to estrogen, this is why estrogen control is important on Nandrolone, nut only when Nandrolone is paired with compounds that have a lot of estrogen conversion. I know a few ppl who use deca only and also eq only, without testosterone there's not enough e2, so they gotta run over a gram of deca or eq solo to get enough e1 to cover estrogen needs. There's a lot more to it but I thought that would be a quick simple explanation of how and why to use them in place of testosterone. Some ppl can't use other compounds to replace test and some can. I know a few ppl who run eq in place of testosterone but your looking at 1gm eq minimum plus the other compounds. I've often wondered how splitting eq and deca 50/50 would work for a cycle. Like 500-600mg each for the main component of the cycle

 

[Trt600mg]

That part about the clomid, sounds good on paper but it's 100% not maintaining natural testosterone production on cycles

What do you mean exactly .. that in fact you are not going to produce any endogenous test? Or that drugs driving production is unnatural? clarify pls

 

[Trt600mg]

What exactly is the mechanism of action of Deca increasing the aromatization of test?

I would think the opposite with all that Deca competing for enzymes with the test..

 

[Smont]

What do you mean exactly .. that in fact you are not going to produce any endogenous test? Or that drugs driving production is unnatural? clarify pls

You can not maintain your natural testosterone production while on a steroid cycle with clomid, I don't know how I could be any more clear then that. Clomid won't keep your natural testosterone production going if your on deca and other steroids. If you run 500 deca + clomid and go get bloodwork once deca hits peak concentration your total testosterone will be close to 0 or 0

 

[Mathb33]

But the real question is… why do this to yourself? Why walk aroun for weeks / months with a complete shutdown testosterone, just to run a deca only cycle? Why? Is it simply really to avoid estrogen? Estrogen is highly important in your process to build muscle. If you’re scared to have trouble handling estrogen simply run 150-175mg of test with your deca.

last thing I would ever wanna do is live my life with a testosterone level of 0. That’s silly

 

[Trt600mg]

Read carefully.. I wasn't exactly being dead serious.. sarcasm can't always be obvious I guess... I just read it here: "https://www.taeian.com/how-to-fully-prevent-shut-down-on-cycle-and-stay-natural/" ...
I don't know if it's true or not. I just would prefer it to be true. I think if it were true.. I would have read about it in the last 20 years..

but.. who can honestly say they took clomid before during and after, and had bloods drawn at multiple points( and can differentiate between exog and endog )...

 

[Trt600mg]

It's not necessarily about using 0 test.. if you want to be literal about it I guess you could say it that way. What I was trying to illustrate is dbol serves in place of the test (yes it's not technically testosterone, but it does cover some of those bases that test does by agonism of the same receptors)

Yes, one could add a bit of test.. this is sort of experimental..and in this experiment I'd like to avoid as much test as possible.
Someone already proposed that Deca increases tests conversion to e2 ( don't know how) but in the case that it's true, I already have enough trouble with 140mg test all by itself.. and in a perfect world I don't want to use an AI.

 

[Mathb33]

It's not necessarily about using 0 test.. if you want to be literal about it I guess you could say it that way. What I was trying to illustrate is dbol serves in place of the test (yes it's not technically testosterone, but it does cover some of those bases that test does by agonism of the same receptors)

Yes, one could add a bit of test.. this is sort of experimental..and in this experiment I'd like to avoid as much test as possible.
Someone already proposed that Deca increases tests conversion to e2 ( don't know how) but in the case that it's true, I already have enough trouble with 140mg test all by itself.. and in a perfect world I don't want to use an AI.

But my question remain why? There is 0 logic or benefits in doing so. Lets compare dbol/deca vs test/deca.
What’s the point of using dbol as "test replacement" first of all dbol is never going to replace testosterone, your test levels will still be completely shut down. Dbol will mimic how you feel on test that’s it.

also, test will be ALOT less toxic for the body than dbol. If you’re gonna do a 12-16 weeks cycle… you’re gonna run for exemple 40mg of dbol for those 12-16 weeks? That’s just awfully toxic for nothing.

On top of being 50x more toxic than test, dbol would not bring more tissue than test would.

so I guess yes we can discuss this for fun but seriously what’s the single benefits of doing so? Test should be the base of any cycle for a reason, and if you want to avoid it’s estrogenic sides you keep it to trt levels to simply REPLACE your own testosterone production.

 

[Mathb33]

perfect world I don't want to use an AI.

that’s another thing I’m confused and curious about… the anti estrogen hate that seems to be going on online… there’s very little side effects and negative impacts taking aromasin at a low / moderate dose.
You’re not willing to take an AI but you’re willing to take diananol?
Dbol is highly highly more toxic towards your organs and general health than an anti estrogen.
Oral steroids = poison.

 

[Trt600mg]

that’s another thing I’m confused and curious about… the anti estrogen hate that seems to be going on online… there’s very little side effects and negative impacts taking aromasin at a low / moderate dose.
You’re not willing to take an AI but you’re willing to take diananol?
Dbol is highly highly more toxic towards your organs and general health than an anti estrogen.
Oral steroids = poison.

I am taking an AI. Because the sides from estrogen outweigh the sides I get from adex.
That doesn't mean I have to like the feeling of adex. I dont feel quite as vigorous, and it takes ages to bust a nut.
I like the feel of dbol. And my liver values have never came back out of range once. And I didn't get low HDL on Dbol either.
I haven't taken more than 175mg/week., and never longer than a couple months. Three times total. Over the course of 10 years.

I only know one person who had complications from orals. And that situation I swear he was trying to hurt himself.

I'd like to see some studies of people using a sensible amount of orals, and the impact of them. (With participants who are healthy)

Dbol is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.. "oh if you run Dbol more than 8 weeks you'll need a liver transplant"

Orals are demonized more than need to be, however it's better for folks to be scared than popping pills willy nilly.

 

[KvanH]

but.. who can honestly say they took clomid before during and after, and had bloods drawn at multiple points( and can differentiate between exog and endog )...

Plenty of people have done that. And based on what I've seen, it's usually a failed attempt. Some have reported success with a SERM + (low dose) SARM. How much doing that makes sense in the big picture / in the long run, even if it keeps your test production going with some dose of a SARM is another discussion. These cycles have not included test, so any test detected in blood draw has been endogenous.