Tongkat/Boron supplement

[RecompMan]

I felt Viron on day 2.

Ditto. By day 5-6 I was like 16 again lol. After that kinda died down

 

[brundel]

1st question) Don't know if I'm just not seeing it but I can't seem to find expiration date on Viron bottle.

All I could find was Lot 133 and I looked 3x the label, cap and bottom of bottle.

If you can find by lot number - can you tell me what's the expiration date or if you simply forgot to write expiration date on bottles?

Can others find expiration date on your bottles of Viron?

2nd question) I see capsules use color FD&C Blue 1 that is known to cause harmful effect in body - is it OK to open capsule and just put content in mouth than wash it down with water or do you have to take without opening capsule?

I kind of a wished you'd go with vegetable capsules since this truly tells you that company cares so much by not choosing industry standard of using gelatin capsules with harmful dyes in it.

If there is no EXP its not by design. OFten the manufacturer will stamp the bottles.
Since we manufacture often you can expect your bottle to be good for at least a couple -few years post purchase so long as its kept in a cool, dark dry place unopened.

Most people would rather have cool colored caps than gel caps.
The % of FD&C in there is extremely low. In fact...if its viron its like .00001% or something. Youll notice the caps are partially transparent.

 

[brundel]

By your logic, 95% of the supplement industry does not care about their customer base, simply because of gel caps.

Id hate to say your right here.....
Ill look into alternatives.

 

[brundel]

I'd highly suggest a boron supplement and 150mg dhea to that protocol. I've noticed not only function but drive increases tremendously on that mix

Boron can also slightly increase estro levels so for him its likely a no go unless he finds a natty AI he can tolerate. Maybe Viron and resveratrol + DHEA

 

[brundel]

Ditto. By day 5-6 I was like 16 again lol. After that kinda died down

I think this is why guys cycle it 5 on 2 off.

 

[kisaj]

I think this is why guys cycle it 5 on 2 off.

Exactly.

 

[RecompMan]

Boron can also slightly increase estro levels so for him its likely a no go unless he finds a natty AI he can tolerate. Maybe Viron and resveratrol + DHEA

The studies and what I saw showed dht increase and drop in estradiol and shbg

 

[horizons]

I'd highly suggest a boron supplement and 150mg dhea to that protocol. I've noticed not only function but drive increases tremendously on that mix

It's already got boron?

 

[horizons]

The studies and what I saw showed dht increase and drop in estradiol and shbg

Studies show that DHT is a excellent estrogen blocker

 

[RecompMan]

Studies show that DHT is a excellent estrogen blocker

Excellent actually

 

[brundel]

The studies and what I saw showed dht increase and drop in estradiol and shbg

Ive read this as well....My estro was pretty high in one test and low in another. 90 and 27. Same dose. Unsure why....Could be related to medications I take. Probably is.

 

[RecompMan]

Ive read this as well....My estro was pretty high in one test and low in another. 90 and 27. Same dose. Unsure why....Could be related to medications I take. Probably is.

From what I saw.

8am was best time for boron supplements.

 

[kisaj]

I'd highly suggest a boron supplement and 150mg dhea to that protocol. I've noticed not only function but drive increases tremendously on that mix

I would never recommend anyone just start taking DHEA in that high of a dose. It is very powerful and amounts as low as 25 mg can increase levels to the very top of the range. It would be better for someone to start with Pregnenolone and assess the balancing of prog, dhea, estrogen, and test before adding in DHEA direct. If DHEA is not increased to the high normal range, then low dose supplementation could be added, generally starting in the 5-10mg range. Excess DHEA will increase estrogen and cause issues on it's own.

Of course it goes without saying that labs should be confirming the need for this.

 

[RecompMan]

I would never recommend anyone just start taking DHEA in that high of a dose. It is very powerful and amounts as low as 25 mg can increase levels to the very top of the range. It would be better for someone to start with Pregnenolone and assess the balancing of prog, dhea, estrogen, and test before adding in DHEA direct. If DHEA is not increased to the high normal range, then low dose supplementation could be added, generally starting in the 5-10mg range. Excess DHEA will increase estrogen and cause issues on it's own. Of course it goes without saying that labs should be confirming the need for this.

I happen to not like pregnenolone. I've seen great effects from what I'm doing so I recommended based on my experience especially those who use AIs and feel them to be "too strong" and hurt livido. Which is why I think I mentioned it

Dhea is powerful and can increase estrogen. And used to on me until the addition of boron which together brought my drive and function way back up from the ****ter.

 

[horizons]

On the third day and notice not much. But I don't know wether this is because of the Viron



But intense sex dreams...

That is all

 

[brundel]

On the third day and notice not much. But I don't know wether this is because of the Viron



But intense sex dreams...

That is all

This would likely be from increased test levels. Again you may not actually "feel" anything but the anabolic potential of having test levels high will be present.
Eat more, train hard and youll gain more than normal.

 

[horizons]

This would likely be from increased test levels. Again you may not actually "feel" anything but the anabolic potential of having test levels high will be present.
Eat more, train hard and youll gain more than normal.

Has anyone dosed 2x caps before

 

[brundel]

Has anyone dosed 2x caps before

Several people have eaten 500mg of the tongkat.
I expect and reports confirm that it will be pretty racy.
If you dont "feel" 250mg youll probably feel the 500.

Some people are sensitive to it. (me for example) but part of it I believe is because it reduces the effect of my beta blockers so my heart beat goes up.
Others just notice the feel good effects of tongkat.
Lots of people feel nothing.
Lots of people feel libido increase.

ALOT depends on the state of your endocrine system from the start I would think.

 

[kisaj]

I have and I love it. Great energy and makes me annoy my wife by following her around the house. haha It may be a bit much for some, so assess your tolerance to one.

 

[ahh123]

For me I'm now on 2d day off after 5 days on Viron.

On day 1 I experienced already better and longer sleep that is continuing to now 1 week - this is No.1 effect that is most noticeable for me.

Surprisingly day 1 & 2 I was also a bit sleepy during the day and 1h before my usual bed time felt tired which is not something I've expected from something that raises testosterone.

Libido surprisingly hasn't jump much in this 1st week but I do feel that something is happening with balls getting larger or dick getting firmer or bigger in flaccid state.

Still overall close to end of 1st week some ups in libido or energy department but nothing crazy yet - best effect for now improved and prolonged bed time and maybe overall mood improvement.

Actually few sleep supplements I've took didn't work so well as Viron for sleep effect (when it's time to sleep).

Tomorrow will be day 8 and will try 2 caps of Viron upon waking then maybe on day 10 or 12 I'll start adding 2 pumps of Formeron.

 

[horizons]

For me I'm now on 2d day off after 5 days on Viron.

On day 1 I experienced already better and longer sleep that is continuing to now 1 week - this is No.1 effect that is most noticeable for me.

Surprisingly day 1 & 2 I was also a bit sleepy during the day and 1h before my usual bed time felt tired which is not something I've expected from something that raises testosterone.

Libido surprisingly hasn't jump much in this 1st week but I do feel that something is happening with balls getting larger or dick getting firmer or bigger in flaccid state.

Still overall close to end of 1st week some ups in libido or energy department but nothing crazy yet - best effect for now improved and prolonged bed time and maybe overall mood improvement.

Actually few sleep supplements I've took didn't work so well as Viron for sleep effect (when it's time to sleep).

Tomorrow will be day 8 and will try 2 caps of Viron upon waking then maybe on day 10 or 12 I'll start adding 2 pumps of Formeron.

Are you not cycling it like 5 days on 2 days off?

 

[ahh123]

Are you not cycling it like 5 days on 2 days off?

Do read once again my 1st sentence where I wrote - I'm now on 2nd day off after 5 days on Viron.

 

[brundel]

For me I'm now on 2d day off after 5 days on Viron.

On day 1 I experienced already better and longer sleep that is continuing to now 1 week - this is No.1 effect that is most noticeable for me.

Surprisingly day 1 & 2 I was also a bit sleepy during the day and 1h before my usual bed time felt tired which is not something I've expected from something that raises testosterone.

Libido surprisingly hasn't jump much in this 1st week but I do feel that something is happening with balls getting larger or dick getting firmer or bigger in flaccid state.

Still overall close to end of 1st week some ups in libido or energy department but nothing crazy yet - best effect for now improved and prolonged bed time and maybe overall mood improvement.

Actually few sleep supplements I've took didn't work so well as Viron for sleep effect (when it's time to sleep).

Tomorrow will be day 8 and will try 2 caps of Viron upon waking then maybe on day 10 or 12 I'll start adding 2 pumps of Formeron.

When my test levels were low Id be tired all day then couldnt stay asleep all night. Miserable.
Tongkat has alot of chems in it.
Erection quality is a know effect of one of the components.
Also...like I was saying as test levels go up estro will go up so....Id add in at least 1 pump Form asap.

 

[dreamcrusher]

Its good stuff solo but combined with certain things it will be incredible.

Can you elaborate as to which products taken in conjunction would make it "incredible"?

 

[ahh123]

Can you elaborate as to which products taken in conjunction would make it "incredible"?

1st addition would be AI to block conversion of free testosterone to estrogen so wise to add Formeron.

And if you want extra strength and endurance then next thing to add I'd guess would be Follidrone which I might try around September.

 

[brundel]

IM gonna start recommending everyone use an AI with the Viron.
Ive already talked to someone whos estrogen is getting super high...The good news is this means test levels are likely double the reference range...
Id run Formeron with it as a standard practice.
This will keep estro under control and allow test levels to rise even further.

 

[ahh123]

IM gonna start recommending everyone use an AI with the Viron.
Ive already talked to someone whos estrogen is getting super high...The good news is this means test levels are likely double the reference range...
Id run Formeron with it as a standard practice.
This will keep estro under control and allow test levels to rise even further.

Yeah that's why I was rooting for sellers to offer stack of Viron + Formeron since no point Viron raising free testosterone but then most of it being converted to estrogen.

This could be reason why most people that take tongkat feel best effect on day 5-10 then everything going back to baseline or below regarding libido.

Today was my day 8 since start of Viron and I've took 2 caps in morning and surprisingly even 40min after I took it my blood pressure and even heart beat was mostly unchanged.

I remember when I took Tranquilogen that has rhodiola that my heart beat went above 75 and stayed like this even 12h after taking 1 cap.

After my weight lifting today that went smooth - despite not doing weight lifting in over a month, after shower I added 2 pumps of Formeron and my energy is good.

I'm also taking since day 1 Orange Triad & Greens at 0.5 scoop (took 1 scoop yesterday in morning and felt like a bit stimulus effect 1st hour since taking).

 

[brundel]

Yeah that's why I was rooting for sellers to offer stack of Viron + Formeron since no point Viron raising free testosterone but then most of it being converted to estrogen.

This could be reason why most people that take tongkat feel best effect on day 5-10 then everything going back to baseline or below regarding libido.

Today was my day 8 since start of Viron and I've took 2 caps in morning and surprisingly even 40min after I took it my blood pressure and even heart beat was mostly unchanged.

I remember when I took Tranquilogen that has rhodiola that my heart beat went above 75 and stayed like this even 12h after taking 1 cap.

After my weight lifting today that went smooth - despite not doing weight lifting in over a month, after shower I added 2 pumps of Formeron and my energy is good.

I'm also taking since day 1 Orange Triad & Greens at 0.5 scoop (took 1 scoop yesterday in morning and felt like a bit stimulus effect 1st hour since taking).

Im also thinking estrogen may be the cause of reduced libido after a week or so.
The good news is there is a great OTC AI available

 

[JD261985]

Is the 5 days on 2 days off suggestion just bioscience? Is there any research to back it up? If not I'm not gonna do that

 

[kisaj]

Is the 5 days on 2 days off suggestion just bioscience? Is there any research to back it up? If not I'm not gonna do that

Yes, mainly through trial and error as people start to see some minor sides or fading of "feel" after about 5 days. If you research it, it isn't anything new, it has been a recommendation for a long time. Are there actual studies behind it? I haven't found any.

Do as you wish, this is just recommended.

 

[rosemont83]

Trying 2 days off for the first time today..
Lets see what happens..
The bottle will last longer so I'm not complaining =]

 

[abformulations]

When is everyone dosing their viron?

 

[rosemont83]

In the AM usually like an hour or two after I wake up.
Just because I'm always running late to work or I'd take it as soon as I woke up lol

 

[brundel]

Ive never seen a study to support it no.
Ive seen a ton of users report better results this way.

Lots of guys get a quick libido burst then a drop to norm. This is likely from a co current rise in estrogen but i dont know for sure.

So best bet is take a couple days off per week.
Use an ai.

 

[abformulations]

Will take mine Am than not starting it till another two weeks though

 

[dreamcrusher]

We use an extract nobody else has. Its very strong. We gave it to 6 AM members to test out and they all agreed it was as good or better than anything they had tried before. With the Boron its very good.
We are working on getting it out asap.

What's the name of the product and when do you expect it to start selling?

 

[kisaj]

What's the name of the product and when do you expect it to start selling?

He is talking about the tongkat that is in Viron. It is very high quality.

 

[dreamcrusher]

He is talking about the tongkat that is in Viron. It is very high quality.

Ok thanks, never heard of it. Who makes it?

 

[cubs1987]

Ok thanks, never heard of it. Who makes it?

I doubt they will disclose their supplier as to keep a competitive advantage.

 

[kisaj]

Black Lion Research makes it.

 

[ahh123]

Ok thanks, never heard of it. Who makes it?

brundel - that's what you get for not opening a thread about Viron and let newbies at BLR subforum know what Viron is and what company sells it lol.

Good that buyers are doing Q&A on BLR products hehe.

 

[rosemont83]

Actually someone pm'd me about this today asking what Viron was..
Need some more exposure on that product man.. Maybe a product education guide on your subforum.. Lol

 

[kisaj]

Hey! You guys want your Folli or not?! Let the man work. LOL

 

[brundel]

I do need to do a writeup and a FAQ.

Ill try to work on it tonight.

 

[abformulations]

I do need to do a writeup and a FAQ. Ill try to work on it tonight.

This will help a lot of people and make your life a bit easier lol

 

[Peppers]

Yea, I'm trying to locate a label with ingredients and dosing etc

 

[brundel]

Yea, I'm trying to locate a label with ingredients and dosing etc

There isnt one up currently.
60 caps
250 tongkat extract
10 boron citrate.

I started on the writeup last night. Itll be done soon.

 

[mechka_grizli]

Viron with or without food? Sorry if its been asked. Also, do you recommend a higher dose for a bigger guy. Currently 240. I usually take my supps upon waking which is about 40 mins pre workout, along with BCaas and a pre. Ok to toss my Viron dose in there?

 

[brundel]

Viron with or without food? Sorry if its been asked. Also, do you recommend a higher dose for a bigger guy. Currently 240. I usually take my supps upon waking which is about 40 mins pre workout, along with BCaas and a pre. Ok to toss my Viron dose in there?

You can try 2 and assess how you feel for sure. For a good tongkat product Viron is inexpensive.
You can take on an empty stomach as long as it doesnt cause any stomach upset.

 

[kisaj]

Rep or not, I can say without question that Brundel could sell Viron for $20 more based on cost of top tongkat products. I know because I've paid it over the years and there have been times the products have been sold out.