Time off and pct advice

[GrowinBoy36]

Just finished 8 weeks of
250mg TD 4andro
200mg TD 1andro
900mg oral Stanoplex (shoutout CEL)
Aromasin 12.5 twice a week from week 5 on.

Gained about 15 lbs, hoping to keep a few of them lol. Which brings me to pct. I started 40mg nolva, mtest, AE, inhibit p, reduce xt.

I have hcg but I don't know if that's entirely necessary? I have clomid otw too if we think that's necessary?

Currently waiting on bloods from week 7 of the little cycle. Will get bloods in a month or two to check recovery.

So just looking for opinions if hcg is necessary for dhea run, if clomid is necessary with the nolva, and if pct counts as time off? Lol

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

i dont want to get into particulars: maybe someone can explain...

but holy chit, WTF.. throw the entire house and kitchen sink at an andro PCT?

 

[GrowinBoy36]

I've been recommended nolva and clomid combined for this stack, on this forum. Wanted some other opinions. And tbh I get so many different recommendations its wild.

 

[NegativeMass]

40mg nolva seems way overkill. I would do 10 mg for 4 weeks. Maybe SERMS don't give you sides, but if they do the sides are dose dependent. 40 is a lot of nolva for an 8 week cycle, no need.

 

[Stopstalking2]

Clomid
CEl-mtest
CEl-cloma-plex

and you should be busting nuts like a porn star

 

[Rad83]

I’m surprised you needed aromasin for that cycle, but “everyone’s different, bro”

Keep the food and training intensity up and you should keep most of them gainz’

 

[GrowinBoy36]

I’m surprised you needed aromasin for that cycle, but “everyone’s different, bro”

Keep the food and training intensity up and you should keep most of them gainz’

Thanks man. I thought I did. Very prone to gyno. I felt some estro sides but im still waiting to see bloodwork how all my hormones were in week 7 just for my knowledge.

 

[KvanH]

I would do Tamox 20 mg for 4 weeks and call it a day. Or check bloods at the last week of PCT and see, if you've bounced back. Always good to check a month or two after PCT to see where your levels settle, though.

You could use Clomid instead too, of course, but stacking them seems unnecessary. All the other stuff is nice to have extra.

 

[GrowinBoy36]

I woul do Tamox 20 mg for 4 weeks and call it a day. Or check bloods at the last werk of PCT and see, if you've bounced back. Always good to check a month or two after PCT to see where your levels settle, though.

You could use Clomid instead too, of course, but stacking them seems unnecessary. All the other stuff is nice to have extra.

Thanks bro. Appreciate the help. I think thats what I'll do. Then get bloodwork and see if there's anything else to consider. Thanks again

 

[LeanEngineer]

and you should be busting nuts like a porn star

This one got me laughing!

 

[Smont]

Pct is a little over kill.
Nolva 40/40/20/20
or
20 for 6 weeks

Add a test booster if you want.

If you wanted to use HCG I would start it the day after your last dose of Andros and use it for 10-14 days before starting nolva.

Hcg is probably the most important part if your shutdown hard but without bloods no1 knows how shutdown you are. I get ppl saying "just andros' but 8 weeks on Andros could have your hormones just as low as 8 weeks on testosterone or anything else. It's 8 weeks on hormones telling your body not to make testosterone.

With all that said, the Nolva should work just fine and all the OTC stuff is just extras.

Maybe save some of those extras for a little Natty cycle to run during your off time.

 

[Smont]

Time off should be determined with bloodwork, once everything looks normal you want to stay normal for a bit. You don't want to get all your health markers back in range and then have them stay in range for like 5 days just to screw them up again that would mean you literally spent like 5 days being healthy.

Without blood work it's kind of a guess but theoretically I guess, so you finish your 8 week cycle today and now you start PCT for 4 to 6 weeks, at the end of those four to six weeks assuming all your health markers are back to normal then you'd probably want to spend another six to eight weeks off and then start again

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Time off should be determined with bloodwork, once everything looks normal you want to stay normal for a bit. You don't want to get all your health markers back in range and then have them stay in range for like 5 days just to screw them up again that would mean you literally spent like 5 days being healthy.

Without blood work it's kind of a guess but theoretically I guess, so you finish your 8 week cycle today and now you start PCT for 4 to 6 weeks, at the end of those four to six weeks assuming all your health markers are back to normal then you'd probably want to spend another six to eight weeks off and then start again

Thanks for the tips man. I'll get all markers normal and go another 8 weeks. I dont want to mess anything up. And I want to be prime for the first test run

 

[GrowinBoy36]

I have bloods coming from a week ago on the andros. I'm sure I'll have a couple questions when I get those back. Thanks any and all

 

[Smont]

Thanks for the tips man. I'll get all markers normal and go another 8 weeks. I dont want to mess anything up. And I want to be prime for the first test run

If you got along well with the 1 Andro and epiandro then you could throw one of those in alongside your test run for the seccond half of the cycle. Something like 6 weeks on 300-400 test and then add the Andros. Around the 6th week Mark is when you're going to start really noticing the testosterone working anyways and then you have those other things on top of it and you get a nice solid last 6 weeks out of it. If someone's never used anything I always say first cycle test only but if you've already used something before and you already know how it treats you I don't see any reason why not to add it. I just added on the back half of the cycle so that the cycle progressively gets stronger instead of starting with a bang out the gate and then fizzling off towards the end

 

[GrowinBoy36]

If you got along well with the 1 Andro and epiandro then you could throw one of those in alongside your test run for the seccond half of the cycle. Something like 6 weeks on 300-400 test and then add the Andros. Around the 6th week Mark is when you're going to start really noticing the testosterone working anyways and then you have those other things on top of it and you get a nice solid last 6 weeks out of it. If someone's never used anything I always say first cycle test only but if you've already used something before and you already know how it treats you I don't see any reason why not to add it. I just added on the back half of the cycle so that the cycle progressively gets stronger instead of starting with a bang out the gate and then fizzling off towards the end

Smont for the win. I'm definitely doing that since i still have a couple extra of the 1andro. I really felt the Andros just before week 4 so I'll add that on the back end. Just gotta get through this pct and off time. Gonna focus on food and intensity. Really interested to see how much of this good weight I can keep until then.

Im a fan of the IML Andros, but I was also using a hefty dose. Pricey compared to test but since I have some already yessir.

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Bloodwork results from week 7 came in and everything is relatively normal range to lower-normal.

Were the creams bunk??

 

[GrowinBoy36]

 

[Ape McGrapes]

HCG is suppressive in itself and can aromatize to estrogen. HCG is intended to be used durring cycle for this reason, and to keep testicals sensitized to LH.

HCG can be blasted at the end of a cycle, which would be dose dependant but on the much much higher side. This is mostly seen in HPTA restart protocols.

Eric Protratz, owner of the now defunct Primordial Performance, has great article/write up on HCG that can still be found via Google.

 

[Smont]

Bloodwork results from week 7 came in and everything is relatively normal range to lower-normal.

Were the creams bunk??

What was your starting testosterone? Did you start with test levels at 400 and finish at 400 or did you start with your natural test levels at 900-1000 and now there at 400. There's a big difference.

400 is still within range but that's about the testosterone levels of a 60year old man. So I'm assuming you had higher levels before the cycle

 

[GrowinBoy36]

What was your starting testosterone? Did you start with test levels at 400 and finish at 400 or did you start with your natural test levels at 900-1000 and now there at 400. There's a big difference.

400 is still within range but that's about the testosterone levels of a 60year old man. So I'm assuming you had higher levels before the cycle

Here was baseline

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Would the test levels at week 7 be supported by 4andro? So maybe now they're lower which makes the pct needed?

I just expected to see higher numbers during the andro run.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Bloodwork results from week 7 came in and everything is relatively normal range to lower-normal.

Were the creams bunk??

they are andros... they dont do much and further dont have huge impacts on the HTPA thus why I was shocked by how much sh17 you were going to throw at it.

 

[Smont]

Shbg is on the lower end and free test on the higher end, I'm going to assume that's more from the epiandro.

Without knowledge of your starting numbers it's a guess, but I would guess that you just experienced mild supression and we're heading i

Would the test levels at week 7 be supported by 4andro? So maybe now they're lower which makes the pct needed?

I just expected to see higher numbers during the andro run.

Its tough to say but would definitely pct, there's a strong possibility that you turned off your natural testosterone production and the week 7 reading is what the 4 Andro had your testosterone levels at. So those are not your testosterone levels that's the artificial testosterone levels for lack of a better way to explain it. If that's the case then your natural testosterone is pretty much zero.

Unless everything you took was fake which I don't believe to be the case then the 1andro alone was probably enough to start shutdown but 900 mg of epiandro is also enough to cause shutdown.

My guess is you're on three suppressive compounds that shut off your testosterone production and the 400 reading is what the 4 Andro gave you

 

[Smont]

they are andros... they dont do much and further dont have huge impacts on the HTPA thus why I was shocked by how much sh17 you were going to throw at it.

I'm pretty sure he shut down his testosterone production and the four Andro is giving him a 400 reading

 

[Smont]

they are andros... they dont do much and further dont have huge impacts on the HTPA thus why I was shocked by how much sh17 you were going to throw at it.

I gotta completely dissagre on the hpta part. Go run 1 Andro solo for 8 weeks and tell me it dosent have a big impact on hpta. I'd bet by the end you would feel horrible, probably have Ed and and low testosterone and low estrogen

 

[Smont]

Since we're all playing a guessing game here, I would run your nolva and if you want add a testosterone booster but not the OTC kitchen sink you originally listed. Check back on your numbers in 6-8 weeks.

Or

If you don't think you have shutdown then skip pct and test again in 6-8 weeks.

One way or another you will get the answer

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Since we're all playing a guessing game here, I would run your nolva and if you want add a testosterone booster but not the OTC kitchen sink you originally listed. Check back on your numbers in 6-8 weeks.

Or

If you don't think you have shutdown then skip pct and test again in 6-8 weeks.

One way or another you will get the answer

This has all been so enlightening. I'm learning a ton. I love it. Thanks so much everyone.

I think I'll pct at just 20 nolva for 6 and get bloods again then and see!!! I don't feel super shutdown but I haven't had a high libido since Nam so idk for sure. We'll see in 6 weeks or so!

 

[Smont]

This has all been so enlightening. I'm learning a ton. I love it. Thanks so much everyone.

I think I'll pct at just 20 nolva for 6 and get bloods again then and see!!! I don't feel super shutdown but I haven't had a high libido since Nam so idk for sure. We'll see in 6 weeks or so!

You wouldn't feel shutdown because your testosterone levels are almost the same. My testosterone levels are in the 900's but. 100% shutdown because I'm on testosterone.

Also, not everyone feels shutdown, and seeing how this is your first time doing this you wouldn't even know what shutdown feels like, get what I'm saying.

But there are ppl who run full blown cycles, crush everything into the gutter and come off cold turkey and feel fine. I have a friend who's pushing 50 and he's gone on and off gear for the past 25-30 years without a single pct and has 4 kids.

It's different for everyone.

I'm not suggesting anyone does what he does

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I gotta completely dissagre on the hpta part. Go run 1 Andro solo for 8 weeks and tell me it dosent have a big impact on hpta. I'd bet by the end you would feel horrible, probably have Ed and and low testosterone and low estrogen

not at 200 mgs dude. full dose and above it does make me sleepy but I return to baseline within a week. I used to have some bloods to prove it but those old computers are toast and long gone.

I never had any luck with any dose of 4 andro. so we are OK to disagree here.

you musta forgot I used to rep for Finaflex, who at the time had the best 1 andro on the planet and I used to get it by the boat load.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

the important part is we agree he doesn't need 20 things to PCT from this stack.

 

[Smont]

not at 200 mgs dude. full dose and above it does make me sleepy but I return to baseline within a week. I used to have some bloods to prove it but those old computers are toast and long gone.

I never had any luck with any dose of 4 andro. so we are OK to disagree here.

you musta forgot I used to rep for Finaflex, who at the time had the best 1 andro on the planet and I used to get it by the boat load.

200mg transdermal

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

But there are ppl who run full blown cycles, crush everything into the gutter and come off cold turkey and feel fine. I have a friend who's pushing 50 and he's gone on and off gear for the past 25-30 years without a single pct and has 4 kids.

It's different for everyone.

I'm not suggesting anyone does what he does

lol my input may be screwed; you're talking to a guy who came back from a "nothing but Nor" cycle with trest/tren/NPP/and a lil diendione on top then proceded to come off TRT lulz

 

[Smont]

not at 200 mgs dude. full dose and above it does make me sleepy but I return to baseline within a week. I used to have some bloods to prove it but those old computers are toast and long gone.

I never had any luck with any dose of 4 andro. so we are OK to disagree here.

you musta forgot I used to rep for Finaflex, who at the time had the best 1 andro on the planet and I used to get it by the boat load.

It's always ok to disagree, Its just a difference of opinions.

I agree on the 4 Andro. Most of the time I tell people to use it it's for estrogen, not for testosterone. Adding 4 Andro to a sarm or dry oral is a good way to keep adequate levels of estrogen. I don't know too many ppl that have success with jacking up there testosterone on 4 andro

 

[Smont]

lol my input may be screwed; you're talking to a guy who came back from a "nothing but Nor" cycle with trest/tren/NPP/and a lil diendione on top then proceded to come off TRT lulz

You ran trest, tren npp! How did that go

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

200mg transdermal

again, I had bloods showing no harm after 600-900 mgs oral per day. suppression IMO is not cut and dry on Andro's like it is with methyl oral and injectable roids..

You ran trest, tren npp! How did that go

hell yea. it was amazing. a little sore in the bawls for a week after but made my joints feel pretty nice and stripped fat like no other stack. you cant sleep though and tren makes me not very hungry.

that was the stack I fucked up my prami and exacerbated the insomnia problem and ended up hallucinating and talking to thin air!

all in all though, I rate it as one of my top 5 cycles. the best one in all honesty (at least the one the was most memorable) was 600test e, TD PO 25 mgs trest (the 97%+ OG) and 30 mgs winstrol daily.

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Thanks so much to both of you for your honest opinions. I'll go easy on pct and that puts me more at ease anyways.

Man I eventually wanna dabble into compounds but hearing about talking to thin air on tren makes me hesitant lol.

 

[Smont]

Thanks so much to both of you for your honest opinions. I'll go easy on pct and that puts me more at ease anyways.

Man I eventually wanna dabble into compounds but hearing about talking to thin air on tren makes me hesitant lol.

That's from prami, has nothing to do with tren. He was using it to combat the side effects from tren. And if you take too much prami you will hallucinate and get violently ill

 

[Smont]

Steroids do not make you hallucinate

 

[Smont]

Steroids are hormone drugs, not psychedelics lol

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Holy crap thats wild and good to know.

I wasn't sure because I hear of tren possibly having negative mental sides. I just know it seems to be one of the most scrutinized compounds.

Like tren is for very advanced users only is what I've heard. Is that true?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

very true. but that doesn't stop the minions

 

[Smont]

Holy crap thats wild and good to know.

I wasn't sure because I hear of tren possibly having negative mental sides. I just know it seems to be one of the most scrutinized compounds.

Like tren is for very advanced users only is what I've heard. Is that true?

Typically tren has some of the worst side effects, but it's user dependent. It definitely has actions in the brain and it effects some more then others. But if your a normal person then tren isn't going to turn you into some kind of a raging lunatic and make you start killing people or imagine that your refrigerator is talking to you.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Typically tren has some of the worst side effects, but it's user dependent. It definitely has actions in the brain and it effects some more then others. But if your a normal person then tren isn't going to turn you into some kind of a raging lunatic and make you start killing people or imagine that your refrigerator is talking to you.

but it IS highly likely to make you a jelous man with a short temper!! just like a bull~

 

[LeanEngineer]

but it IS highly likely to make you a jelous man with a short temper!! just like a bull~

What if you're already a jealous man with a short temper before taking? Asking for a friend

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

What if you're already a jealous man with a short temper before taking? Asking for a friend

your friend knows what happens!

 

[GrowinBoy36]

Cholesterol was a tad high. Barely over range. That runs in the family so I'm going to make sure I can get those numbers down significantly before I dabble into a test run in 23.

Also, would you guys reccomend full pct for that? As in HCG 2weeks (1000iu a week) clomid 50 for 4 weeks and nolva 40 40 20 20?

Sorry if these questions are redundant but like I said the amount of misleading info everywhere is insane these days. I really do try to research

 

[Oliver Kween]

A question no one asked you
Have your balls shrunk?

 

[GrowinBoy36]

A question no one asked you
Have your balls shrunk?

A little smaller during. Not terrible. Now seem back to normal size already...

 

[GrowinBoy36]

I must have been suppressed a little. No energy in the gym. Weak boners. Down 10 lbs in a week. Now 212 just hoping to keep a pound lol maybe half a pound.