Testogel vs 4-andro

[Paperstackz]

Hi I’m UK based and want to use a test base for a cycle I have planned in the next few months possibly an Autumn/winter bulk

I’m going to be running a combo of LGD for 12 weeks titrations from 6mg to 18mg
with var for possibly 4/6 weeks it trating from 20/60 maybe 80 but I don’t Think I would need it
mk677 towards the end of my cycle through my pct to sustain all the growth when comming off

I will be taking fish oils before during and after
milk thistle before and after don’t want it to affect progress during
and nac and saw palmetto afterwards

if it’s absolutely necessary or cost effective I would do a combo but I would want to decide on running testo gel 50mg/5g or a 4-andro. Would one testo gel sachet be enough ED for this cycle would it work out to 350mg high tor does or would that drop significantly and in turn I am seeing through research I would need at least 300-500mg ED for an affective does which would give me an end product of 330.96-551.6 MG OF TEST which is a good base but very uncost effective most mg I am seeing from the uk is 50 to 75 maybe 125 but to take 6 tablets a day one bottle would last 20 days I would want to start running this 2/4 weeks into my lgd cycle depending on suppression which would mean I need at least 3 bottles which is around £150 probably around 200 something American. Knowing all this which is my best option.

with a pct of nolva/tamox obviously because of the var and not a natural pct
is there any preferably uk sites or sponsors uk based on this site.


DEAL WITH THE MISSUS ONLY ORALS SO NOONE SUGGEST PINNING TEST

I am actually in 2 minds as I have great genetics and what to compete I can provide pics of my 2 week home training and 2 week gym training which would put some of you guys to shame that are on cycle without being conceited

I have been training on and off for 8 years and know my body and how much I can push it

 

[Whisky]

if not pinning then I’d go 4-ad rather than 4-andro the one step conversion makes a big difference

at a guess predator still stock their fusion brand.

as you have pointed out genetics plays by far the biggest role here (personally I need a lot of anabolics to look average but we alll gotta play the cards we’ve been dealt), I would suggest that if you want to compete you know injectables is where it would have to go - purely from a health standpoint oral only cycles just have too many deleterious side effects to be used year after year

throw the pics up bro, let’s see what your bringing as a natty

 

[Paperstackz]

if not pinning then I’d go 4-ad rather than 4-andro the one step conversion makes a big difference

at a guess predator still stock their fusion brand.

as you have pointed out genetics plays by far the biggest role here (personally I need a lot of anabolics to look average but we alll gotta play the cards we’ve been dealt), I would suggest that if you want to compete you know injectables is where it would have to go - purely from a health standpoint oral only cycles just have too many deleterious side effects to be used year after year

throw the pics up bro, let’s see what your bringing as a natty

Any directions for a high dose goods for good effects

obviously I know competing seriously would lead to injections but for now I wouldn’t be able to go that route

all pics no pump just came home from work and I’m in a mid bulk atm I will provide better pics when I next go gym.

i wouldn’t say that’s bad for a months work from being skinny I havent worked out in the last two years I will try find some before pics too

 

[Paperstackz]

Also had some past issues after abandoning gym of weight gain so have a bit of excess skin from dropping from 150kg to 90kg baring in mind by 16 was playing rugby already at 100kg so my body hyporesponds to any change

 

[KvanH]

I think testo cream would be best, if not able to pinn. Then testogel, then 4-AD as Whisky said, then transdermal 4-Andro, then oral 4-Andro, then Dermacrine (td dhea). So you have to count the quids needed for each and decide how much is worth it to you.

But when you're using test or these PH's just as your base for keeping you feeling good and all that, I don't think it matters all that much for your success. The Var and Lgd will bring the gains.

I'd consider 10 mg to be the absolute minimun for Lgd and 15 mg to typically a good place to start. Many seem to find 20-25 mg a sweet spot. I'm guessing you have 6 mg caps, so I'd rather start with 12 mg, than 6. Take the nac for the whole duration imo and adding tudca when adding the Var wouldn't be a bad idea. Some all in one cycle support supp like CEL Cycle Assist is allways a good idea to run through your cycle too.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Paperstackz]

I think testo cream would be best, if not able to pinn. Then testogel, then 4-AD as Whisky said, then transdermal 4-Andro, then oral 4-Andro, then Dermacrine (td dhea). So you have to count the quids needed for each and decide how much is worth it to you.

But when you're using test or these PH's just as your base for keeping you feeling good and all that, I don't think it matters all that much for your success. The Var and Lgd will bring the gains.

I'd consider 10 mg to be the absolute minimun for Lgd and 15 mg to typically a good place to start. Many seem to find 20-25 mg a sweet spot. I'm guessing you have 6 mg caps, so I'd rather start with 12 mg, than 6. Take the nac for the whole duration imo and adding tudca when adding the Var wouldn't be a bad idea. Some all in one cycle support supp like CEL Cycle Assist is allways a good idea to run through your cycle too.

Just some thoughts.

Okay great I’ll keep that all in mind a bit of a struggle everything that says 4-ad when you look at the ingredients it’s actually 4-andro (two step) unless I can find genuine one step I think I may use 4 andro oral and testogel dermo in a combo but thankyou for cycle support info

 

[KvanH]

Okay great I’ll keep that all in mind a bit of a struggle everything that says 4-ad when you look at the ingredients it’s actually 4-andro (two step) unless I can find genuine one step I think I may use 4 andro oral and testogel dermo in a combo but thankyou for cycle support info

No problem mate. I've ever only seen one 4-AD product and it's the Fusion Androtest from Predator, that Whisky mentioned. It's quite pricy though.

 

[Whisky]

Any directions for a high dose goods for good effects

obviously I know competing seriously would lead to injections but for now I wouldn’t be able to go that route

all pics no pump just came home from work and I’m in a mid bulk atm I will provide better pics when I next go gym.

i wouldn’t say that’s bad for a months work from being skinny I havent worked out in the last two years I will try find some before pics too

pretty jacked dude, the gear would help add some sheer mass to the back (width) but to be fair you’ve a good base just going from those photos. Interesting to see how you get on with a cycle tbh.

it’s the conversion rates that really make the decision on which compound.

4-ad converts at roughly 15%
4-andro is roughly 5%

so 4-andro at the min dose anyone suggests (330mg Ed) gives you approx 16.5mg a day or 115mg a week of test - basically a trt dose.

now for the same effect you would only need 110mg a day 4-ad but the higher conversion allows for options, many people would run that at 400 a day giving more like 420mg test a week, the same as a cycle (I.e the test will contribute to the increased outcomes at that dose).

obviously all this is caveat with the truth that you will have an individual response to all these compounds, you may respond better or worse than others but generally speaking the above is the sort of option you have

 

[BCseacow83]

If you have access to anavar, an approved medication for use in humans with 50 plus years of clinical and anecdotal evidence regarding effectiveness and health implications I would take that 10 out of 10 times over a NEVER approved for human usage and abandoned by the company who spent millions inventing it sarm. All the sides, less muscle gains and lots of longterm ??????????? screw that if you have another option.

Are you androgen sensitive? No
Is var very devoid of androgen sides to begin with? yes
GO WITH VAR! Run the gel with it and if you feel you need more add in some 4ad later on in the cycle. You can also grab some of Iconic Formulations 4-andro now while you can, I used it in place of TRT when I was between dr's.

 

[thebigt]

If you have access to anavar, an approved medication for use in humans with 50 plus years of clinical and anecdotal evidence regarding effectiveness and health implications I would take that 10 out of 10 times over a NEVER approved for human usage and abandoned by the company who spent millions inventing it sarm. All the sides, less muscle gains and lots of longterm ??????????? screw that if you have another option.

Are you androgen sensitive? No
Is var very devoid of androgen sides to begin with? yes
GO WITH VAR! Run the gel with it and if you feel you need more add in some 4ad later on in the cycle. You can also grab some of Iconic Formulations 4-andro now while you can, I used it in place of TRT when I was between dr's.

LAST CHANCE

 

[Nac]

I'd opt for TD test as a first choice myself. A bit easier to predict what you'll be getting from the product. If going that route, I wouldn't bother with any 4-andro at all, save your coin for an AI (which you may or may not need).

As for the LGD vs Anavar...I'd skip the LGD and put the $$ towards more var and run it for the 10-12 weeks. I've run both, in various contexts, and var is by far superior.

 

[BCseacow83]

I'd opt for TD test as a first choice myself. A bit easier to predict what you'll be getting from the product. If going that route, I wouldn't bother with any 4-andro at all, save your coin for an AI (which you may or may not need).

As for the LGD vs Anavar...I'd skip the LGD and put the $$ towards more var and run it for the 10-12 weeks. I've run both, in various contexts, and var is by far superior.

I agree if the 4-andro is oral but I will vouch for TD's being a completely different product and on par with LOW DOSE test, ie. true TRT doses.

If he is going to run var for 12 weeks I would like to see some tudca or CEL cycle support and perhaps some citrus bergamot for the HDL that will be taking a beating especially considering he is talking like this is going to be a regular thing for him with his competitive aspirations.

 

[thebigt]

I agree if the 4-andro is oral but I will vouch for TD's being a completely different product and on par with LOW DOSE test, ie. true TRT doses.

If he is going to run var for 12 weeks I would like to see some tudca or CEL cycle support and perhaps some citrus bergamot for the HDL that will be taking a beating especially considering he is talking like this is going to be a regular thing for him with his competitive aspirations.

i'm going to be sad to see Alpha Four go....i can tell a huge difference when i add it to my 100mg weekly dose of trt.

if i could go to drugstore and by var without a prescription i would be all over it-hell testosterone and munerous other anabolics while we're at it,

unfortunately i can't....and soon i won't be able to get A4 either.

 

[Paperstackz]

No problem mate. I've ever only seen one 4-AD product and it's the Fusion Androtest from Predator, that Whisky mentioned. It's quite pricy though.

Okay great I’ll give it a look the testo gel is about £50 for 30 satchets so Ill look and see which is more cost effective

 

[Paperstackz]

pretty jacked dude, the gear would help add some sheer mass to the back (width) but to be fair you’ve a good base just going from those photos. Interesting to see how you get on with a cycle tbh.

it’s the conversion rates that really make the decision on which compound.

4-ad converts at roughly 15%
4-andro is roughly 5%

so 4-andro at the min dose anyone suggests (330mg Ed) gives you approx 16.5mg a day or 115mg a week of test - basically a trt dose.

now for the same effect you would only need 110mg a day 4-ad but the higher conversion allows for options, many people would run that at 400 a day giving more like 420mg test a week, the same as a cycle (I.e the test will contribute to the increased outcomes at that dose).

obviously all this is caveat with the truth that you will have an individual response to all these compounds, you may respond better or worse than others but generally speaking the above is the sort of option you have

Thanks bro

oh crap I though 4 andro was the one that converted at about 15.67% damn only 5%

yeah as you say I would like to have it at a decent test base level of 300mg p/W

 

[Paperstackz]

If you have access to anavar, an approved medication for use in humans with 50 plus years of clinical and anecdotal evidence regarding effectiveness and health implications I would take that 10 out of 10 times over a NEVER approved for human usage and abandoned by the company who spent millions inventing it sarm. All the sides, less muscle gains and lots of longterm ??????????? screw that if you have another option.

Are you androgen sensitive? No
Is var very devoid of androgen sides to begin with? yes
GO WITH VAR! Run the gel with it and if you feel you need more add in some 4ad later on in the cycle. You can also grab some of Iconic Formulations 4-andro now while you can, I used it in place of TRT when I was between dr's.

I understand you completely which is the reason why I picked lgd for good results with not as serious affects the dosage I’m running at I’m guessing will lead to suppression not shut down but the test base is still there to negate sides.
I actually didn’t want to run anything originally just mk and lgd, but the anecdotal and research into var for the first step is a no brainier.

I want lgd for the length I can run it (12weeks) compared to var I don’t want to run super long just as a top off at the end of my cycle.

don’t worry I completely understand you in regard to the sarms.

 

[Paperstackz]

LAST CHANCE

LAST CHANCE

Does shipping to the uk have high costs?

 

[KvanH]

Does shipping to the uk have high costs?

Powermyself still has some Alpha Four and Alpha Gainz 4-Andro in stock. It may be cheaper to buy from Iconics website though with the discount, even with the bigger shipping cost.

 

[Paperstackz]

I'd opt for TD test as a first choice myself. A bit easier to predict what you'll be getting from the product. If going that route, I wouldn't bother with any 4-andro at all, save your coin for an AI (which you may or may not need).

As for the LGD vs Anavar...I'd skip the LGD and put the $$ towards more var and run it for the 10-12 weeks. I've run both, in various contexts, and var is by far superior.

Okay as long as i can get enough to satisfy around a weekly test base of 300 ? I was just going to use a serm tamox for that purpose but I guess I could get some arimidex

I already have the lgd and tbh don’t want to run var for 12 weeks for my first cycle i want to see how I respond which is why I’m only running it towards the end so I can see how much I would gain on top of lgd.

 

[Paperstackz]

I agree if the 4-andro is oral but I will vouch for TD's being a completely different product and on par with LOW DOSE test, ie. true TRT doses.

If he is going to run var for 12 weeks I would like to see some tudca or CEL cycle support and perhaps some citrus bergamot for the HDL that will be taking a beating especially considering he is talking like this is going to be a regular thing for him with his competitive aspirations.

May have to go the TD route going forward then and see 4 andro as maybe a top up

 

[Paperstackz]

Powermyself still has some Alpha Four and Alpha Gainz 4-Andro in stock. It may be cheaper to buy from Iconics website though with the discount, even with the bigger shipping cost.

Okay great I will look into both then.

 

[KvanH]

Okay great I will look into both then.

They are both top notch transdermal 4-Andro products, that have their production brought to an end, due to some lisensing issues (someone correct me if I'm using wrong terms here). Alpha Four also has Androsterone in it, which is a good addition to pretty much any cycle. But I think it would be difficult to get a big enough of test dose from 4-Andro to get any significant anabolism from it. I see them as more of a base products to keep you feeling good and having energy and all that, when other compounds bring the gains and otherwise you'd have very low T and E.

 

[johnny412]

I think testo cream would be best, if not able to pinn. Then testogel, then 4-AD as Whisky said, then transdermal 4-Andro, then oral 4-Andro, then Dermacrine (td dhea). So you have to count the quids needed for each and decide how much is worth it to you.

But when you're using test or these PH's just as your base for keeping you feeling good and all that, I don't think it matters all that much for your success. The Var and Lgd will bring the gains.

I'd consider 10 mg to be the absolute minimun for Lgd and 15 mg to typically a good place to start. Many seem to find 20-25 mg a sweet spot. I'm guessing you have 6 mg caps, so I'd rather start with 12 mg, than 6. Take the nac for the whole duration imo and adding tudca when adding the Var wouldn't be a bad idea. Some all in one cycle support supp like CEL Cycle Assist is allways a good idea to run through your cycle too.

Just some thoughts.

can you get test gel without a script?

 

[KvanH]

can you get test gel without a script?

Depends where you live I guess, but in most places I'd say no. No different than injectable test.

 

[Paperstackz]

can you get test gel without a script?

Yeah I’ve found a way to get testogel without a script

 

[KvanH]

Yeah I’ve found a way to get testogel without a script

Legally?

 

[Paperstackz]

Powermyself still has some Alpha Four and Alpha Gainz 4-Andro in stock. It may be cheaper to buy from Iconics website though with the discount, even with the bigger shipping cost.

I couldn’t see the alap 4 but the alpha gainz 4-andro TD I can see for about £50 would this be a better option than androtest 4 android from predator for £75 I cant seem to see how much there is per serving

 

[Paperstackz]

I couldn’t see the alap 4 but the alpha gainz 4-andro TD I can see for about £50 would this be a better option than androtest 4 android from predator for £75 I cant seem to see how much there is per serving

I stand corrected ive seen it for £95

 

[Paperstackz]

I’ve also seen the ultra hard with 125andro and 375 epistane from all these options what’s the general consensus to get an actual decent test base of 300

 

[Paperstackz]

Legally?

Yes if your uk based I can do you

 

[KvanH]

I’ve also seen the ultra hard with 125andro and 375 epistane from all these options what’s the general consensus to get an actual decent test base of 300

It's Androsterone + Epiandrosterone. Not Epistane (in case that wasn't a typo). It's a nice addition, but doesn't bring any estrogen, so doesn't really work as a 'test/estro base'.

 

[KvanH]

Yes if your uk based I can do you

That's cool, but I'm not in UK = )

 

[thebigt]

Does shipping to the uk have high costs?

@delsolrob

 

[Paperstackz]

It's Androsterone + Epiandrosterone. Not Epistane (in case that wasn't a typo). It's a nice addition, but doesn't bring any estrogen, so doesn't really work as a 'test/estro base'.

Haha yeah sorry but wouldn’t you still get the estrogen after the conversion to test obviously not enough but still a bit

 

[thebigt]

Haha yeah sorry but wouldn’t you still get the estrogen after the conversion to test obviously not enough but still a bit

actually the opposite, most guys who run ultra hard report drying out-normally a sign of reduced estrogen.

 

[KvanH]

Haha yeah sorry but wouldn’t you still get the estrogen after the conversion to test obviously not enough but still a bit

Although slightly different, they both convert to DHT and have antiestrogenic activity, like T mentioned.

 

[Paperstackz]

Although slightly different, they both convert to DHT and have antiestrogenic activity, like T mentioned.

Okay I see so everyone’s general consensus on if price wasn’t a problem the best base to actually get A test base

 

[delsolrob]

Does shipping to the uk have high costs?

the costs are not low - but, the coupon code would cover the shipping costs for basic shipping on one bottle. if you order multiple bottles the discount code is going to more than cover the cost of shipping.

first class shipping for one bottle would be about $25 - coupon code LASTCHANCE would save you $30 on one bottle of Alpha Four. shipping on multiple bottles wouldn't be that much more and your savings would be significant. if you're ordering multiple bottles I would highly recommend using UPS as a shipping option

 

[delsolrob]

as a reminder - this is the last day to get Alpha Four and Icon One through our site...and with the LASTCHANCE coupon code

 

[Bdon 2021]

as a reminder - this is the last day to get Alpha Four and Icon One through our site...and with the LASTCHANCE coupon code

Would one stack these two? Or would it be better to run one or the other in oral form?

 

[KvanH]

Would one stack these two? Or would it be better to run one or the other in oral form?

They would go well together. Only issue could be finding enough skin space. Would probably be best to apply twice a day.

 

[Bdon 2021]

They would go well together. Only issue could be finding enough skin space. Would probably be best to apply twice a day.

That’s what I figured. Trying to avoid the liver toxicity. Never used TD before. AI on cycle and Clomid/Nolva for PCT? I read BigT’s log on IconOne.

Thanks in advance!

 

[KvanH]

That’s what I figured. Trying to avoid the liver toxicity. Never used TD before. AI on cycle and Clomid/Nolva for PCT? I read BigT’s log on IconOne.

Thanks in advance!

Yes, for these products a serm pct is recommended. Clomid or Nolva, pick one, either would suffice. Probably no AI needed, but it's ALLWAYS good to have on hand. The need for an AI is a bit individual. None of the compounds in the I1 or A4 are particularly harsh on the liver and the TD application allows to skip the first pass through the liver. Cycle support supps are still allways a good idea. CEL Cycle Assist and OL K1ngs Shield are some of the good all-in-one support products.

 

[Bdon 2021]

Yes, for these products a serm pct is recommended. Clomid or Nolva, pick one, either would suffice. Probably no AI needed, but it's ALLWAYS good to have on hand. The need for an AI is a bit individual. None of the compounds in the I1 or A4 are particularly harsh on the liver and the TD application allows to skip the first pass through the liver. Cycle support supps are still allways a good idea. CEL Cycle Assist and OL K1ngs Shield are some of the good all-in-one support products.

Appreciate it. The TD application is exactly why I wanted to try this. I’m sketched on oral meds in general, because everything goes through the liver eventually.

Again, mucho gracias!

 

[KvanH]

Appreciate it. The TD application is exactly why I wanted to try this. I’m sketched on oral meds in general, because everything goes through the liver eventually.

Again, mucho gracias!

De nada, amigo. But as you said,
everything goes through the liver eventually. So does TD's, just skips the first pass. But the Andros aren't harsh on the liver (to my knowledge), even when taken orally. The TD application offers several other benefits though.

 

[thebigt]

That’s what I figured. Trying to avoid the liver toxicity. Never used TD before. AI on cycle and Clomid/Nolva for PCT? I read BigT’s log on IconOne.

Thanks in advance!

AI-no
serm for pct=probably a wise move

 

[Gordy67]

Yeah I’ve found a way to get testogel without a script

I've been trying now for days to try get it without a script. I Have been on Testogel for months now but then the online pharmacy stopped delivering and suggested I go see a GP. Not happy. Please, elaborate.

 

[jim2509]

I've been trying now for days to try get it without a script. I Have been on Testogel for months now but then the online pharmacy stopped delivering and suggested I go see a GP. Not happy. Please, elaborate.

He thought you could order it online via Superdrug. I put it to the test and it was declined. They won't issue it without a Dr prescription.